Under The Current Climate Would You Buy A Condo?

[Casanundra]

Given the current climate of change in Thailand along with the new visa rules, lack of government coupled with the economic climate here... would you buy a Grade A Condo in a good location for about 4.5 million baht?

Yes or No?

[Gary A]

Yes, provided you can afford one at that price, can buy it in your name and that you are not buying it and expecting to make a profit. When I bought mine, my friends told me I paid too much and would never get my money back. Since it was what I wanted and I had no plans to ever sell it I bought it anyways. It has since almost doubled in price.

[Alf Witt]

Given the current climate of change in Thailand along with the new visa rules, lack of government coupled with the economic climate here... would you buy a Grade A Condo in a good location for about 4.5 million baht?

Yes or No?

There are lots of other considerations, but limiting this reply to the ones you are concerned about -

Visa rules depend upon your own personal ability to get an appropriate visa. Some people may have to leave Thailand because their only option is the 30 day visa run which is no longer viable. Generally they will not be the people who comprise the farang market for real estate.

The polictical changes are unlikely to affect every day life here - in essence, one Thai government usually turns out to be much like the other. The only caveat here is if Mr T. returns too soon and there is unrest in the North as a result, that could affect Thailand economically and in terms of its attraction to "visitors".

On balance I would say, yes, go ahead if the deal is OK otherwise.

Good luck.

[Casanundra]

Thanks guys, I have to admit that I am surprised at the positive responses so far as I thought I would have heard a resounding noooooo!

I have always had a full work permit and visa to stay here plus I am also married and as such I have that option to fall back on too so having a valid long term visa is not an issue.

I am aware of all the other considerations re: location, Condo management, new build versus second hand Condo etc... and just wanted clarification and general thoughts if buying would be a good decision or not.

Earning a capital gain is not the goal but finding a home to call my own is although to be honest the one crux that I do have is about the lost interest element on my funds versus the rental saved by buying as it is a close call.

[Mobi]

Yes, provided it is designated as one of the 49% in the block that is allowed to be bought by foreigners, and that your own name is on the land title deed, and not a company name. I tjhink this should be pretty safe.

However, I would not buy a house or condo through a company in the present situation. Things may change, but right now - a resounding no.

[Gary A]

I never really gave a lot of thought to the lost interest element. I was renting a pretty nice apartment and got tired of paying a premium for my electricity and water. The landlord add on was about 25 percent for the electric and about 50 percent for the water. I also wanted to put a vent in the front door to take advantage of a nice breeze coming from the beach. I was willing to pay for a new door and then put the old door back on when I left. The landlord was horrified at the thought. The last straw was when I wanted to hang a clock in the kitchen and he refused to allow that. I can knock a wall out of my own condo and no one can say anything. If I want to paint my condo purple, it's up to me.

Thanks guys, I have to admit that I am surprised at the positive responses so far as I thought I would have heard a resounding noooooo!

I have always had a full work permit and visa to stay here plus I am also married and as such I have that option to fall back on too so having a valid long term visa is not an issue.

I am aware of all the other considerations re: location, Condo management, new build versus second hand Condo etc... and just wanted clarification and general thoughts if buying would be a good decision or not.

Earning a capital gain is not the goal but finding a home to call my own is although to be honest the one crux that I do have is about the lost interest element on my funds versus the rental saved by buying as it is a close call.

[1Rai.com]

Yes, provided it is designated as one of the 49% in the block that is allowed to be bought by foreigners, and that your own name is on the land title deed, and not a company name. I think this should be pretty safe.

Spot on. I wouldn't be so fast to condemn the company route... though I think I may be hesitant to buy through a company with the current status quo.

[steveromagnino]

I can knock a wall out of my own condo and no one can say anything. If I want to paint my condo purple, it's up to me.

So... critical question then.....

Is it purple or not????

[bluedragon]

IF you think about it too long, the baht rate will go down even more..

Regards BD

[dsfbrit]

Spot on. I wouldn't be so fast to condemn the company route... though I think I may be hesitant to buy through a company with the current status quo.

As I am always eager to learn, I would like you to offer an advantage of buying through the company route.

Edited October 27, 2006 by dsfbrit

[xbusman]

Sorry, the hard and fast rule never to be violated is:

NEVER PUT MORE MONEY IN THAILAND THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM

4.5 is more than I would be willing to walk away from.

[Casanundra]

Personally I cannot see any benefit with a Condo buying it under the banner of a company UNLESS of course the money being spent on the Condo is considered business assets and will contribute towards the circa 2 million baht to obtain you a work visa that is... then and only then can I see how it would be beneficial.

Having said that, the new focus on the nominee shares and the visibility of your (cough cough) Thai partners would put me off going down this route myself.

Can someone qualify what they mean by the statement "NEVER PUT MORE MONEY IN THAILAND THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM"

I hear this being said all the time on the thai visa forum but so far I have yet to see anyone quantify it. How does buying a Condo in a prime location that you can sell a year or two down the line make you lose so much money that you will have to walk away from it or are people still hanging their hat on what happened in the 1997 crash? If someone would like to just clarify what they mean by this statement then that would be wundeful ya allez gut!

Edited October 27, 2006 by Casanundra

[dsfbrit]

Personally I cannot see any benefit with a Condo buying it under the banner of a company UNLESS of course the money being spent on the Condo is considered business assets and will contribute towards the circa 2 million baht to obtain you a work visa that is... then and only then can I see how it would be beneficial.

Having said that, the new focus on the nominee shares and the visibility of your (cough cough) Thai partners would put me off going down this route myself.

I cannot see any benefit either and would have just ignored the post. However as it was put forward by one of the sponsors of TV I was quite taken aback. It goes against just about everything I have read in TV over the last month or so???

Its why I am interested to know why this is being offered as any sort of option - if to this forum then I suspect to potential buyers as well???

is it to get around the 49 percent farang ownership in a block rule ? I thought this 'instrument' had been derided as a bad idea by the respected experts on TV.

I am not an expert, but I have learnt this much at least!

Am I wrong?

Edited October 27, 2006 by dsfbrit

[Gary A]

I can knock a wall out of my own condo and no one can say anything. If I want to paint my condo purple, it's up to me.

So... critical question then.....

Is it purple or not????

LOL! No, it's still an off white and all the walls are still in the same place, BUT, I have hung whatever I wanted where I wanted.

[xbusman]

Nothing complicated about the first rule of Thailand.

NEVER PUT MORE MONEY HERE THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM

We are guests of His Majesty in a land without any really predictable law or regulations and as guest have no rights, and especially no priveleges. They can (and do) show up at your door at midnight and take you, your passport and favorite shirt to the airport for a one way trip anywhere but here. They can (and do) change legislation, ex posto facto in most cases, change visa requirements, change any ###### thing they please (and do). Having knowledge of this, you have to come to terms with the very temporary and tenuous nature of your "visit" to the LOS. Interestingly enough, the people who understand this the best are those that survived all the multiple upheavals and have been here for decades.

So in the end, if you live your life in preparation for that day when all entry visas become void and you have six hours to catch the next flight out, and are able to leave without a regret or a financial loss that will cripple your ability to live, then you are indeed a wise and astute survivor in an often tough and unpredictable clime.

But if you plow your hard earned currency in illiquid assets or even banks that do conform to EU or US banking regulations of transparency and protection to a level that will devastate you, then you are in line to join the many Pattaya flyers fulfilling Darwins theories from the high balconies of Jomtien.

The slowly evaporating Elite card is a wonderful example. Many of the buyers can smoke 1M baht with breakfast tea and never even note the smoke. For them, its a wonderful thing, even if it lasts only a year or two, that is what money is for after all. But for all the rest of us who might have a rather bad week to find ourselves short a million baht, its an amazingly ludicrous and funny scam offering up the mirth and laughter that makes living here so fun. We all of us know that the Som Nam Na is coming, but in the interim the wealthy get pampered while the poor hang on to reality.

So if you have 4.5M baht laying around, stuffed in an old coffee can or something, and you are just dying to get stuck next to some unknown neighbors for the duration, by all means you should throw that spare change at anyone or anything that so catches your fancy. Just always be prepared to close that door one day and hand the keys to next passerby with a smile and wave as your invitation here expires.

[Casanundra]

They can (and do) show up at your door at midnight and take you, your passport and favorite shirt to the airport for a one way trip anywhere but here.

Hee Hee interesting perspective and thoughts you gave there in your quantification of the statement. Just curious on the one quoted above as I have not seen this happen myself nor do I know anyone it has happened to. Is there a secret squirrel squad running around somewhere whisking people away that I am not aware of or is this sort of activity limited to those who may have ruffled the wrong feathers in their activities here in Thailand?

Just curious

[dsfbrit]

They can (and do) show up at your door at midnight and take you, your passport and favorite shirt to the airport for a one way trip anywhere but here.

Hee Hee interesting perspective and thoughts you gave there in your quantification of the statement. Just curious on the one quoted above as I have not seen this happen myself nor do I know anyone it has happened to. Is there a secret squirrel squad running around somewhere whisking people away that I am not aware of or is this sort of activity limited to those who may have ruffled the wrong feathers in their activities here in Thailand?

Just curious

I read on the Visa thread about a Teacher (Madi - post 593/594 - link below) with a Thai wife and a couple of Thai kids who - I guess - does not receive a minimum income of 40k baht. I dont know if he is going to be whisked away as described above - probably he has not enough cash for the flight (poor sod), but he and many others like him could be ousted.

I guess he and others like him in similar positions to him feel he invested more in Thailand than he wanted to walk away from - poor sods:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...6514&st=585

I on the other hand just stand to possibly have land reposessed by the government, others have bought condos and probably cannot live in them now as they cannot get a visa via the 3M baht investment route. Shall I go on...

The trouble with the visa changes is that they are implemented very quickly after people are 'informed'. They could at least give people a resonable time to make new plans - 6 months say -not 6 weeks.

And above I use the word informed loosely - as unless you read Thai visa - you probably dont know what the actual changes really are!!!

I was down Pattaya Immigration today to get my TM8 re-entry form -and the information there is / appeared to be all out of date!!

So I at least can sleep easy at the moment, because even if they take the land away - I still have enough cash to have a good life. Why is that???' Becasue I only investest in etc...

[Gary A]

QUOTE

"They can (and do) show up at your door at midnight and take you, your passport and favorite shirt to the airport for a one way trip anywhere but here".

.............

LOL! I have been here many years and have never seen this happen although I DO know a number of farangs who SHOULD have been thrown out of the country. Thieves, scam artists and plain bums manage to stay here and for the most part are pretty much left alone.

[hughden]

Yes, provided you can afford one at that price, can buy it in your name and that you are not buying it and expecting to make a profit. When I bought mine, my friends told me I paid too much and would never get my money back. Since it was what I wanted and I had no plans to ever sell it I bought it anyways. It has since almost doubled in price.

Good advice from Gary. Buy one to live in and just enjoy living in it.

[Schooner]

Almost a year ago I started looking at condos because I was tired of living in hotel rooms and paying the high price. I also wanted it in my name. I looked at a bunch of condos and one day the realtor took me to look at a new 2 bedroom place with a pool in a nice village. I loved the place. I threw caution to the wind and paid the asking price. Now I'm usually a pretty analytical guy, but this was a complete impule buy. I bought the place through a nominee company, so I'm one of those.

I've been waking up in this place for a year now and I still love the place. It is perfect for me and I intend to keep it. (BTW it's going to be for rent soon when I go back to the states for about 6 months to start a new business) MY point is that I like living here. Like everyone else I paniked when the "new" rules about companies came out, but I don't believe that there will be a problem that will involve "walking away from my investment" History just doesn't support that notion. Any investment, anywhere is subject to loss. Take a look at the American housing market that is currently taking a dump to the tune of 30% equity loss. The rule for ANY investment is don't invest if you can't afford to loose.

The impulsiveness of my choice to buy this place has caused me to think of other impulsive choices I've made, like the choice to come to Thailand in the firstplace. All of my impulsive decisions have produced my happiest experences.

If it all goes to hel_l My fall back position bagging groceries at the local supermatket and I will be doing it with a smile on my face remembering this wonderful Thailand experence.

BTW my friend has a nice condo at metro on the 30th floor. It's a beautiful view for sure, but he is acutly sensitive to noise and his neighbor who only comes about once a month parties all night so condos are not for everyone.

[LoveDaBlues]

Almost a year ago I started looking at condos because I was tired of living in hotel rooms and paying the high price. I also wanted it in my name. I looked at a bunch of condos and one day the realtor took me to look at a new 2 bedroom place with a pool in a nice village. I loved the place. I threw caution to the wind and paid the asking price. Now I'm usually a pretty analytical guy, but this was a complete impule buy. I bought the place through a nominee company, so I'm one of those.

I've been waking up in this place for a year now and I still love the place. It is perfect for me and I intend to keep it. (BTW it's going to be for rent soon when I go back to the states for about 6 months to start a new business) MY point is that I like living here. Like everyone else I paniked when the "new" rules about companies came out, but I don't believe that there will be a problem that will involve "walking away from my investment" History just doesn't support that notion. Any investment, anywhere is subject to loss. Take a look at the American housing market that is currently taking a dump to the tune of 30% equity loss. The rule for ANY investment is don't invest if you can't afford to loose.

The impulsiveness of my choice to buy this place has caused me to think of other impulsive choices I've made, like the choice to come to Thailand in the firstplace. All of my impulsive decisions have produced my happiest experences.

If it all goes to hel_l My fall back position bagging groceries at the local supermatket and I will be doing it with a smile on my face remembering this wonderful Thailand experence.

BTW my friend has a nice condo at metro on the 30th floor. It's a beautiful view for sure, but he is acutly sensitive to noise and his neighbor who only comes about once a month parties all night so condos are not for everyone.

Source?

[backflip]

"I'm one of those."

I'll say.

"American housing market...is currently taking a dump to the tune of 30% equity loss"

No, it is not.

[tracker]

"under the current climate"..... Yep, that says it all.

Buy a condo, buy on a high floor, because with all the net water melting in the sea, a condo is your best bet. Check out the average level above sea in bangkok.

[Schooner]

If you look at the news from the US every major news outlet has checked in with the fall in the real estate market. Some areas are in the teens some are in the mid 30's. A friend of mine who just visited told me that his two condos in Florida have lost about 22% in just the past few months. The point that I tried to make is that the issue of real estate values going up and down is not unique to Thailand.

My other point is that I bought my home because I loved it. I like waking up here everyday. I don't care if it goes up or down in value because I didn't buy it as an investment. I bought it because I like it.

My other point is life is full of risks no matter where you live. I choose to live balancing the risks with the benefits of a stimulating, challanging life. I don't understand why anyone would come here to Thailand and then constantly complain about living here. If I did not enjoy it as much as I do I would go back to where I came from.

BTW if the crap hits the fan and the doomsday predictors are correct about farangs being rounded up and sent home what makes you think that owning a condo in your name is going to help you?

finally, I will say again. some of you people need to get a life beyond staring at a computer screen and quoting statistics.

[Casanundra]

One suspects that the doom and gloom brigade that tell us to not buy here are those that made a mistake or didn't follow the rules properly or even didn't do the normal due diligience that one should do before investing.

It's easy to complain and point the finger at the system than take responsibility for making a bad judgement, especially here in Thailand.

Ok the rules have changed recently and as such caught a lot of people unawares, but equally so, many of those caught out had not planned for an uncertain future either and had cut thing so close to the edge that they were destined to get nicked in the close shave that followed.

MY rule is and always will be to put 30% in land and or property, to put 30% in long term investments, to have 30% in liquid emergency assets and the remaining 10% as funds to have fun with. The salary that's earned is spent on day to day living an expenses. As such I am always going to have 30% of my money to fall back on... it's called managing your risk and taking a balanced view.

Some say you never know who is going to move in next door and you could get the neighbour from hel_l... but who is to say you have to just sit there and put up with it...

If the Thai's do decide to round us all up and kick us out, ok fair enough we have money wrapped up in a Condo that we cannot live in, but I am sure knowing my wife as I do that she won't just sit there and wave goodbye either nor rub her hands in glee and no doubt will be hot on my heels after selling the Condo on my behalf (as its in my name) for us to just then pop into Malaysia to get a 10 year visa on a home there instead... but of course I won't know this for sure until it happens.

There are always options and escape routes and other plans out there if you make them part of your risk plan.

Basically, if you plan for the event then you are best able to manage it when or if it eventually happens and its only those who don't make these provisions that get caught unawares.

Edited October 29, 2006 by Casanundra

[xbusman]

I dont know where or when anyone started blathering about buying or not buying. Frankly, its none of my nor anyone elses business what we each decide to do with our money. What each of us does is impacted by an infinite variety of circumstances that apply only to that person and that application.

The First Rule of Thailand simply states:

NEVER PUT MORE MONEY HERE THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM

We are guests in an country not guided by the rule of law, without continuity of power, and with no legal rights. None, nada zip. If you have a bar on the corner of Asoke and Sukhumvit or perhaps where Chuwit park is today, and despite long term contracts, big key money and improvements, you might find your bar to be a pile of rubble tomorrow. Soooo sorry, mai pen rai. Perhaps you might try writing a letter to the Bangkok Post in protest.

To advocate contrary to the first rule of Thailand, and then to publish advice to potential newbies to Thailand is great disservice. It is the height of hubris to believe you can land in a country loosely controlled by various mafias and beat them at their own game. If you live by the first rule, Thailand is a lovely and wonderful place to live and work, if not, be sure you buy a condo high enough to make it quick and painless.

[popshirt]

Yes, provided it is designated as one of the 49% in the block that is allowed to be bought by foreigners, and that your own name is on the land title deed, and not a company name. I tjhink this should be pretty safe.

However, I would not buy a house or condo through a company in the present situation. Things may change, but right now - a resounding no.

Absolutely! My sentiments exactly and this is what I am telling my farang friends who are thinking of buying here.

[OlRedEyes]

We are guests in an country not guided by the rule of law

This is the little part some don't seem to understand, or believe.

[bkkandrew]

We are guests in an country not guided by the rule of law

This is the little part some don't seem to understand, or believe.

Very salient. Very accurate.

In another part of the post you quote from, the situation of Soi 10/Soi Asoke (corner) was mentioned. I was personally affected by this and (with the help of a paid police enforcer), get some money back every month. Those unconnected to such resources just have to sit back, suffer the loss and the mai ben rai attitude...

[hagler]

hmmm let me see...

I bought my first investment house for $ 16 000 with a mortgage of $ 14 000 ( guaranteed by my folks) when I was 16 ( 29 years ago). All my friends at the time thought I was mad and went out and bought themselves a car. The house is now worth $ 1 600 000 and yes I still have it.

At 20 I bought 3 more houses for around $ 22 000 each in the middle of a huge downtown in the market using the equity that I had built up in the first house. People said I was crazy and that it would all go wrong. I still have those houses and yes they are all worth over a $ 1 000 000 each.

Between 24 and 30 I bought another 16 properties all using the equity built up in the earlier purchases. People told me I was crazy and that I should just be careful not to lose my money cause the market was about to fall big time.... and yes I still have them; and yes they are worth a lot more now.

From 30 to 40 I bought a lot more properties both inside my country and also started buying properties in South East Asia. EVERY time I bought one, someone would say ' just hold off the market is going to crash". Even the properties I bought just before the Asian financial meltdown of 97 are ALL worth at least 3 times what I paid for them now. Many of the others in Asia have achieved truly spectacular results.

And the moral of the this story is ? Dont listen to the "doom and gloom" brigade; but be happy they are there as they are the ones who make you richer by paying off your mortgages through their rents.. Real Estate investment is the BEST way to achieving financial and personal independance. Paying rent is the equivilent of showering in $ 100 bills, once it leaves your hands you never see it again.