Crackdown On Foreign Teachers

[george]

Foreign teachers: eligible bachelors only need apply

Crackdown is likely to affect Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Phuket

PHUKET: -- Schools across the island will ask Phuket Governor Niran Kalayanamit to petition the Ministry of Education (MoE) to ease – if not scrap – new regulations requiring all new teachers to have at least a bachelor’s degree and to pass an extensive background check before they can begin work.

The decision was made at a meeting at the Phuket Educational Service Area (PESA) office on Tuesday, chaired by Niran as one of his last acts as Vice-Governor before his promotion to Governor.

At the meeting, attended by representatives of 37 private schools and 14 government-run schools on Phuket, it was agreed to ask the Governor to petition the MoE to also allow schools to put teachers to work while the lengthy background checks are being conducted.

Owners of small private schools employing foreign teachers, especially language schools, feel the new requirements, which came into effect September 29, are too restrictive and time-consuming, taking months to complete before a new teacher can be hired.

The new policy requires that all foreign teachers possess at least a bachelor’s degree, a certified copy of which must be presented to the local MoE office along with a certified copy of the applicant’s transcript (academic record).

Before hiring a new teacher, schools must wait for approval from the MoE’s International Education Promotion Division, which must check the authenticity of the teacher’s credentials by seeking a confirmation letter from the university the applicant claims to be graduate of.

The new policy specifies three other requirements:

- The applicant must possess a passport with a non-immigrant visa of any class, except for an “ED” study/education visa. The visa must be valid for at least 15 days before the date of application;

- The name of the teacher must match that on his/her passport and academic degree;

- Teachers from countries where English is not an official language must present evidence of English-language fluency, in the form of standardized test results with the following minimum scores: IELTS 5.5; or TOEFL 550 or TOEIC 600.

Gov Niran said that, apart from security concerns, there are many foreign teachers in Thailand who lack proper teaching credentials.

The crackdown is likely to affect Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Phuket the most, as these are the provinces with the greatest concentrations of foreign teachers, he said.

PESA Director Chien Srirueng confirmed that the bachelor’s degree and background checks apply only to new hires, not existing foreign staff.

There are currently 105 foreign teachers in Phuket, employed by 35 different schools.

-- Phuket Gazette 2006-11-03

[samran]

Regulating cowboy schools in the way suggested in the article might actually be a good thing overall. It would focus schools on planning ahead for their annual intake of teachers, organising well in advance background checks to make sure they are qualified, and most importantly from the teachers perspective, ensuring that the schools put together a decent compensation package so that people are incentivised to hang around.

[Rinrada]

Foreign teachers: eligible bachelors only need apply

Crackdown is likely to affect Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Phuket

So marrieds and single women..SPINSTERS..need not apply....

Can only "appen in......

[PeaceBlondie]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

This is impossible, and congratulations to the affected schools for telling the government so.

How could the issuing university have known that Sally W. Jones would become Sally Wilhemina Thompson? What about people with two last names, such as Sotheby-Covington or Herrerra Rodriguez?

All types of Thai schools in Thailand don't wait to get their teachers fully certified; they almost always set them right to work in the classroom, teaching illegally. That's the Thai way, Thai style.

Where does Thailand's government think we are - Singapore? Perhaps the teachers soon will be.

[Boatabike]

At last, the schools are waking up to the possible results of this new non planned plan. Good on them. Getting qualified teachers is a good thing, but crippling the system with impossible (here) expectations to the detriment of the kids education can only be a bad thing. Lets hope the rest of the schools follow this first step by Phuket.

[kudroz]

Very good news, I'm glad to hear. Seems like Thailand is getting on track lately. I'm pleased with the changes.

[chownah]

- Teachers from countries where English is not an official language must present evidence of English-language fluency, in the form of standardized test results with the following minimum scores: IELTS 5.5; or TOEFL 550 or TOEIC 600.

Does this mean that all newly hired Thai teachers must have achieved a minimum score on one of these tests?

Chownah

[Steph1012]

At last, the schools are waking up to the possible results of this new non planned plan. Good on them. Getting qualified teachers is a good thing, but crippling the system with impossible (here) expectations to the detriment of the kids education can only be a bad thing. Lets hope the rest of the schools follow this first step by Phuket.

Thats it mate, the penny (first of many) has finally dropped.

Not in 10 thousand years are Thai Schools going to fill their requirements with qualified staff. High paying countries cannot do it so what on earth makes Thailand think they can one can only wonder.

Its ok having a wish list but at the end of the day you have to go with what you've got.

Knock em a few places back down the economic scale in a year or so. no continuity, half the teachers legging it now because if visas. Easy to work in China, Cambodia and Vietnam.

[aqua4]

The article reads "crack down".

There is no crack down from what I see. They are only making it more difficult to get a work permit. "Crack Down" in its usual context would be round ups at schools of illegal teachers, not the regular ones being squeezed even more.

[Boatabike]

The article reads "crack down".

There is no crack down from what I see. They are only making it more difficult to get a work permit. "Crack Down" in its usual context would be round ups at schools of illegal teachers, not the regular ones being squeezed even more.

Actually what is mentioned in the OP is only the tip of the iceberg there is a lot of other stuff being talked about existing teachers too. As I have said before, improving the quality is a good thing, but only if implementing it is not in anyway to the detriment of the kids. Losing teachers on mass would in my books be just that.

[Foggy Bottom]

The new requirements contravene Thai Law in several aspects

Ignoring for the moment the famous contradiction of "you must have a Work Permit when applying for a Non Immigrant visa" coupled with "Work Permits will only be issued to holders of Non-Immigrant visas"......

There are the requirements of entry to the Kingdom to consider - If entering on a non-imm issued outside the kingdom, there is a time limit regarding how quickly you must present yourself to collect your work-permit, which in turn must have been applied for prior to your entry (I'm using the official interpretation here) but will only be issued after entry.

It is the job of the Work Permit office to ensure that you have all the relevant qualifications (and verify them) prior to issuing the work permit book.

However, prior to issuing the visa, the issuing authority also has to satisfy itself regarding the applicant's qualifications to do the work that is being used to sponsor the visa, and that the employer has complied with Thai law regarding being a qualified employer (No of Thai staff, cap inveted etc) and has applied for and received the relevant licenses to both employ the applicant in that role, and for the applicant to perform that role.

The upshot is - the employer has to verify the applicants qualifications and pass those verifications to the ministry of education who must also then verify them before issuing the teachers license, which is used in support of the visa application (Immigration / Consulate must also verify the applicants qualifications with the issuer if they think something is suspicious), and then the work permit office also has to do the same.

Now forgive me for being sceptical but two predictions surface here.

1. The transcripts record keeper is going to be mightily ticked off if they start getting four sets of verification requests each time someone applies for a job in Thailand - some teachers I know, work simultaneously at four or five establishments = 20 requests for transcript verification? (plus the ones from places where they only work for a short time before moving on - it could become 20 requests per year per teacher)

2. Someone has to pay for all this - if the government passes the cost to the schools, it'll come off salaries advertised. If the government decides to recover it from the applicant, visa and work permit fees will be rising substantially - perhaps to the point where no-one bothers staying in Thailand for more than one semester?

And that, in the end, may be exactly what they're after? How many times have you heard that Thai education employers want fresh blood every time because old hands know too much? Well, it looks like they might get their wish after all?

Gaz

[uk_falang]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

[rexall]

Now forgive me for being sceptical but two predictions surface here.

1. The transcripts record keeper is going to be mightily ticked off if they start getting four sets of verification requests each time someone applies for a job in Thailand - some teachers I know, work simultaneously at four or five establishments = 20 requests for transcript verification? (plus the ones from places where they only work for a short time before moving on - it could become 20 requests per year per teacher)

Gaz

Fri 03 Nov 06, 8:12 p.m.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the work permit locks you into a single school, working on the premises of that school. So freelancing, part timing, multiple employers, as well as the common practice of being farmed out to other venues by the primary employer is technically improper and/or illegal.

Aloha,

Rex

[ratcatcher]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

Have you spent time in Thailand ? Have you heard Thais speaking English?

Any Thai that can speak English fluently will already have or be applying for a job that is far higher paid than any English language school is prepared to offer.

That would be akin to expecting English speakers to learn Thai from a farang who is fluent in Thai.

Any farang fluent in Thai will be able to hold a high paying job in this country as well.

The reason they hire native speakers is so that Thai students can learn correct pronunciation and learn something of the western culture. .

[TerryLH]

Re: Post 13

"1. The transcripts record keeper is going to be mightily ticked off if they start getting four sets of verification requests each time someone applies for a job in Thailand - some teachers I know, work simultaneously at four or five establishments = 20 requests for transcript verification? (plus the ones from places where they only work for a short time before moving on - it could become 20 requests per year per teacher)

Gaz"

Fri 03 Nov 06, 8:12 p.m.

"Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the work permit locks you into a single school, working on the premises of that school. So freelancing, part timing, multiple employers, as well as the common practice of being farmed out to other venues by the primary employer is technically improper and/or illegal."

---------------------------------------------------------------

Rex

I think Gaz was giving an extreme example to make his point.

It is technically possible to have more than one job in a work permit.

It's also possible to get a WP based on part-time work. I know of two people who have done so, but is their cases it's the only job in their respective WP's.

Each employer has to provide all the paperwork, just like the original employer. No shortcuts for 2nd jobs.

It's a highly unlikly scenario, but I think Gaz makes his point.

Terry

[Hermano Lobo]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

One would have thought a TEFL/TESOL or CELTA would be sufficient ?

Having a degree does not ensure that one is any good as a teacher !

You may have a bachelors degree, but have eyes close together and can only communicate via a keyboard and a computer. Be socially dysfunctional and freeze in the company of students ?

Four of my friends teach in Thailand. They have TEFL/CELTA qualifications but no degree.

They are superb teachers.

In my varied travels I have met few people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The ones that think they do, delude themselves.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[BlackJack]

maybe I need to come out of retirement now as there should be a shortage of teachers

maybe I will just wait until the teacher salary hits the magic 65,000 baht per month that Immigration now states that i must earn as a pension

Nah working should be more than pension and so 80,000 baht per month for a teacher with qualifications

Now thats going to tick a few thai teachers off

[brahmburgers]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

what a load of donkey poop. Thailand is already on the ropes when it comes to English speaking proficiency. English is THE language of the 21st century. Some of my good friends are Thai people who teach English, and frankly, they just don't speak as well as an articulate native English speaker. Thai students like Thai teachers better, because the teachers can often segue to speaking Thai - to emphasize a point - which is OK. In fact, an farang English teacher would do well to learn at least some Thai, so he can make the school kids more responsive to learning.

Thai authorities really really really don't know what's going on - especially in the big picture of why it's so important for Thais in general to be able to speak and understand English. Instead of putting up roadblocks to learning, they should have an open-arm policy to encourage many native English speakers to come here and teach. Ok, granted, there should be some screening to eliminate the dumbells, pedophiles, and drunks (though they slip thru the cracks in the current prerequisite policy). In fact, the stated policy, to allow existing teachers to avoid the new strict scrutiny - will ensure that the less desirables will get safely grandfathered in.

[hardy1943]

Have you spent time in Thailand ? Have you heard Thais speaking English?

Any Thai that can speak English fluently will already have or be applying for a job that is far higher paid than any English language school is prepared to offer.

That would be akin to expecting English speakers to learn Thai from a farang who is fluent in Thai.

Any farang fluent in Thai will be able to hold a high paying job in this country as well.

The reason they hire native speakers is so that Thai students can learn correct pronunciation and learn something of the western culture. .

Very well said!!!! Could not agree with you more. Most Thai Teachers that teach English

do not know the basis English. The teacher that is in charge of the English department in

Chiang Rai is so bad, I can hardly understand a word what he is saying.

[Kaojai]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

There is a branch of an excellent international teacher placement service in Chiang Mai, Search Associates. www.search-associates.net

They facilitate placement of properly qualified teachers in the better schools in Thailand as well as elsewhere in Asia or Europe or the MiddleEast.

The process may be slow and, at times, frustrating, but it is hardly impossible. Some of the people who have come to Thailand to teach are simply looking for a way to pick up pocket money while on an extended holiday. Many are poorly qualified at best and in some cases they are seeking situations which will put them in contact with children for reasons other than a desire to educate.

There is no guarantee that a rigorous screening process will ensure good teachers and screen out the misfits, but if children are saved from being exposed to whackos like that guy who was deported back to the US or some of the lazy functional illiterates who have been able to get teaching jobs in the past, then it is well worth the trouble.

[isaanbrit]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

absolute codswallop - do you really think that all english teachers in thailand are able to stop speaking Thai with their students??? Do you really think that Thailand can fnd enough teachers who can speak English fluantly as a 2nd language? To say that you must have very little experience in TEFL in thailand

Students are and always will be more excited about learning English with a native English speaker, why take the little bit of fun that they have out of learning English?

(sorry, i'm a little bit drunk, couldnt be bothered to capitolize or spell check)

[fxe1200]

Why not have a "crack down" on teachers with a bad pronounciation and a limited knowledge of English grammar. Start with the local Thai teachers and then proceed with the Filipinos. That would make more sense.

[basjke]

thailand,the hub of crackdowns.

[uk_falang]

ROFL

Maybe you are right - if the students have good level of english already then foreign teachers are good.

In most cases, especially with kids, they have a very poor level of English. In this case the teacher should speak fluent Thai.

I have a number of friends (foreigners) teaching English in Thailand. They are often put in front of students who dont speak any English and then expected to teach them the rules of the language.

Foreign "teachers" are often employed because they are white and not because they are good teachers. There is too much emphasis on grammar and not enough of vocabulary.

Bar girls speak the best English - so maybe this is the future of Thailand.

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

absolute codswallop - do you really think that all english teachers in thailand are able to stop speaking Thai with their students??? Do you really think that Thailand can fnd enough teachers who can speak English fluantly as a 2nd language? To say that you must have very little experience in TEFL in thailand

Students are and always will be more excited about learning English with a native English speaker, why take the little bit of fun that they have out of learning English?

(sorry, i'm a little bit drunk, couldnt be bothered to capitolize or spell check)

[PeaceBlondie]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

There is a branch of an excellent international teacher placement service in Chiang Mai, Search Associates. www.search-associates.net

They facilitate placement of properly qualified teachers in the better schools in Thailand as well as elsewhere in Asia or Europe or the MiddleEast.

The process may be slow and, at times, frustrating, but it is hardly impossible. Some of the people who have come to Thailand to teach are simply looking for a way to pick up pocket money while on an extended holiday. Many are poorly qualified at best and in some cases they are seeking situations which will put them in contact with children for reasons other than a desire to educate.

There is no guarantee that a rigorous screening process will ensure good teachers and screen out the misfits, but if children are saved from being exposed to whackos like that guy who was deported back to the US or some of the lazy functional illiterates who have been able to get teaching jobs in the past, then it is well worth the trouble.

It appears that website recruits fully qualified teaching professionals (such as B.Ed., PGCE, M.Ed types) who wouldn't teach here for less than 100,000 baht per month. My daughter's that qualified, and wouldn't come here for 200K. It takes months to secure such a job, and you don't get them from within Thailand, usually.

The OP relates to teachers (in Phuket, but all over Thailand as well) who earn 22K to 35K per month, in schools where Thai teachers who teach English make up to 41K per month (yes, that's not a misprint). The real, professional teachers who make over 75K have nothing to fear. We're talkiing about Thai schools not on the international circuit, such as govt. matayom and prathom and anuban schools; private language centers (ECC, NES, AUA, etc), and the lower quality private schools. The whacko who got deported should have been checked more thoroughly, even as a temp or substitute/supply teacher.

What I meant to say in my post, is that it will be virtually impossible for Thai authorities in Thailand to check the professional qualifications of farang teachers of English, math, science, etc. They won't do it, even if they knew how to do it.

This is a case of the Thai right hand not knowing what the Thai right hand is doing.

[Dakhar]

What do you expect from a farming economy? They do not care if English is the lang. of the 21st century, if they do not live within that century.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Dakhar

[NordicMan]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

A certified copy does not certify the original. A certified copy merely confirms that the copy is identical to the original.

Certfifying the original is done by MoE contacting the institution that issued it.

Thus, you do not need to involve your embassy.

Just bring your original to a solicitor that can make a certified copy.

If you cannot get a transcript from the institution you attended... that says quite a lof of the quality of the place that gave you your degree in the first place.

Perhaps this is impossible for a small minority... but I can't see how getting a transcript should be "an absolutely impossible task" for most people.

I had no problems getting transcripts from universities I attended in australia, norway and UK.

I don't doubt this could potentially raise the standard of teaching.... but I don't think most Thai people can afford it. Let's face it, top quality teachers, at top quality institutions also cost top dollars.

[astral]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

In my day and age, 1969 in the UK, there was no such thing as a transcript, that is an American concept

I simply have my University Degree Certificate, showing I passed with Second Class Honours.

The same applies to my Post Graduate Certificate in Education.

I have the certificate to show I completed the course successfully.

Where does that leave me??

[nikmcg]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

You were taking the p--- surely?

All this other nonsense about "Must have a degree" Rubbish!

I studied Media, it has sod all to do with English, albeit the course was in that language.

Anyone with a tip top useful degree is almost certainly going to want to work somewhere with good pay and future prospects. Normally the reason for studying for one in the first place. Therefore unlikely to want to stay teaching in Thailand for any long length of time!

Excluding a degree in English, the only courses and qualifications relevent to teaching English are the TEFL ones. Again why they were invented.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Astral; I thought the UK schools don't give transcripts. Mine are almost illegible. What is SOCIO 103? My degree is in [Christian, Protestant, Baptist] RELIGION!

NordicMan, sometimes I exaggerate a trillion times per nanosecond. I think a 'certified copy' just means that somebody saw an original that might have been a fake. Some degrees contain words written in Latin, where university is spelled VNIVERSITAD, and there's a story where they wanted it translated, or that the guy at Khao Sahn Road couldn't even spell!!

How are Thais who can't speak English well (especially the admin. staff) going to find the phone numbers of the registrar's office, and call them at local time (such as midnight Thai time)? What about the privacy acts? What about unis and students whose names have changed? My uni changed its name more times than I can recall since 1971.

If KSR fakers can fake degrees, they can fake transcripts. And they can fake 'educational certification' documents. What's the URL for verifying my daughter's certification? How many Thais with education degrees and administrative authority are going to be bothered making the phone calls when they don't know how to make international calls? No, they're going to let staff assistant Pachasacha do it, and she finished M6 with a passing grade of 50 in English.

In Thailand with Thai staff whose native language is Thai, 99% of the staff can't verify these things. There aren't enough qualified staff in the ministries of Education, Labour and Interior who will get around to verifying these things. Ain't gonna happen in Thailand.

Meanwhile, hundreds of fairly good teachers will be let go, some of the bad teachers will stay, many bad teachers will leave, and Thailand will be no better off....okay, 2% better off.