Living In Bangkok

[MsNina]

I'm moving to Bangkok for a year, leaving in June. I would love your advice about setting up there!

I'll be working in central Bangkok, opposite Lumpini Park on Rama IV. I don't want to have to commute very far, but understand that living in central Bangkok is more expensive than elsewhere. Can anyone give me the lowdown, or links to a site, on good places to live? (This site http://www.ajarn.com/ has excellent information on living in Bangkok). I'm happy to spend about 10,000 baht a month on rent (plus utilities - about 3,000 - 4,000 baht?), and really want an apartment with a separate bedroom, rather than a studio, as I expect to have visitors during the year. I don't particularly want to live amongst expats, nor do I want to live in the middle of the loudest, most party-hard part of Bangkok, (though I wouldn't mind being near it, just not in it).

Besides which areas of Bangkok are good to live in, can people give me advice about finding an apartment? I understand that just walking around in the desired suburb is a good way, but I don't speak Thai! I don't feel super confident about the prospect of getting a fair deal, regarding deposit, utilities and rent, if I can't actually negotiate with the landlord. In light of this, is it better to mainly look in the Bangkok Post or will I face the same problems? Is going through a real estate agent necessary? If I do get to negotiate with a landlord, what questions should I ask of them? Should I try to get my utility bills directly from the utility company or is this even possible?

I also like the idea of sharing a flat with others, particularly Thai people (though they would have to have a decent level of English). Is this common or easy to do?

Can people recommend methods of transport to and from work? Is the sky train particularly accessable? And is it very expensive? Are the main transport options bus (non air-con?), train, tuk-tuk, taxi, motorbike and car? Do people cycle in Bangkok? Or is this something not to be done because of the pollution?!

While I'm waiting to find an apartment, I'll probably have to stay in a youth hostel. Can anyone recommend a good hostel?

I would also love to learn Thai. Can anyone recommend a good Thai school?

Finally, can people tell me about other great things to do in Bangkok (Thai jazz?!) and also good weekend holidays?

I should also emphasise that I am a feminist woman and have no interest in mingling with the men who sustain the exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industries.

[otherstuff1957]

on living in Bangkok). I'm happy to spend about 10,000 baht

I also like the idea of sharing a flat with others, particularly Thai people (though they would have to have a decent level of English). Is this common or easy to do?

Can people recommend methods of transport to and from work? Is the sky train particularly accessable? And is it very expensive? Are the main transport options bus (non air-con?), train, tuk-tuk, taxi, motorbike and car? Do people cycle in Bangkok? Or is this something not to be done because of the pollution?!

While I'm waiting to find an apartment, I'll probably have to stay in a youth hostel. Can anyone recommend a good hostel?

I would also love to learn Thai. Can anyone recommend a good Thai school?

Finally, can people tell me about other great things to do in Bangkok (Thai jazz?!) and also good weekend holidays?

I should also emphasise that I am a feminist woman and have no interest in mingling with the men who sustain the exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industries.

Not mingle with the men who ..... So your only going to mingle with women?

If you really want to avoid men who etc... you will have to avoid a lot of Thai men. Farang tourists didn't bring prostitution to Thailand, they came here because it already existed here. The majority of prostitutes in Thailand service Thai men, rather than tourists.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Seriously though, Bangkok is a very nice place for men, even if they are the 1% or so of men who don't fall into the catagory listed above! However, it's not as great a place for women. Expat men probably outnumber women here by about 10 to 1 and many of them (us!) are what a friend of mine refers to as rather dodgy types. I have a co-worker who is a western woman and I can tell that she is quite lonely and often works late in the evenings and on Saturdays. She lives in an apartment building that has very few Farangs, but hasn't been able to make friends with any of the Thai's that live there. Aside from occassional evenings out with her co-workers or with my wife and me, she doesn't have much in the way a life

As for an apartment, your budget sounds quite reasonable, your co-workers or some posters on this website should be able to give you some hints as to where to look. You should be able to find a place to move into within a few days. I would strongly advise getting a place near the Skytrain. If you want to avoid the sex-tourist areas, you will want to look toward the ends of the Skytrain lines rather than the area in the center. I live near Victory Monument and have an apartment that is twice the size of one that a friend had on Sukhumvit soi 4 even though our rents were the same.

Traffic in BKK is a real nightmare. Riding a bicycle here is probably a good way to commit suicide. In addition, it is always VERY hot and you will arrive at work soaked in sweat. The best way to commute is by Skytrain or by the new subway system. I haven't ridden the Subway yet, but the Sktrain is cheap and fast. If you are working for a Western Company and are getting average pay, you will be able to live very well in Bangkok and can ride taxi's everywhere if you choose. If you are working for a Thai Company (like me) you will learn the bus routes

On the plus side, Thailand is one of the safest countries in the world for a single woman traveler. Your Thai co-workers will probably do their best to make you welcome. Food, rent, transportation are all very cheap.

Good luck!

[Tongdee]

Hi. I suspect you may find "youth Hostel" not to your liking. I would sugest a Guest house/hotel not terribly far I have stayed at years bygone. Clean & nice people. Lee Guest house just off Soi Sri Bumpen. Somewhat near Malasia Hotel. That should work until you find long term accomodation. I would sugest looking only at places you can to via the sky train (rote fai fa in Thai language)as the traffic in The Bangkok is really horific, will take up a large chunk of your day. There is no shortage of nice(a relative term) accomadation near the skytrain if you are prepared to spend the Baht. Not payin the price will likely prove more costly anyway in Baht & agggggrivation..

Learning some thai language is a very good idea. A challenge for a folung who is not accustomed to a tonal language where a word spoken with correct sounds in the wrong tones can have a very different meaning. Altho I speak very good Thai & will order almost anything else in spoken Thai, I still ask for a banana rather than a gloey as that word spoken in the wrong tone can mean something totaly different. Learning some of The written language without the aid of Native thai speakers will pay big dividendes when you learn the spoken language from native Thai speakers (there is no other effective way. learning from discs other folung,or books will not correct your mispronunciationor tonal mistakes).

The Thai people are very friendly, compassionate, & social. Thai people you work with will worry about you bieng lonley & include you in thier many social activitys rite from the begining.

As you will find out once you are there(unless you have already decided that men in Thai are all there for exploitive sex with children) Men of quality are a hot & highly sought after commodity among the ladies of Thai. Attitudes that prevail in the western world are not accepted in Thailand.

Good luck with your travels & remember it is Their contry it is the way it is. You will not change anything there. It will change you. Likely for the better.

Tongdee

na Canada

[samran]

Try around the Ari area for something good and a little different (a couple of stops north of Victory Monumnet). I used to live around there and it is a great place. It is quite a Thai area, but set up for Farang sensibilities.

Handy for the skytrain, will get you to work in about 30 mins. Is away from hussle of downtown, but is a well serviced area as it is home to many well established Thai families. Soi Ari 7 in particular has great food. Nearby are well established supermarkets, banks and shops.

A smattering of Long term of expats and international school teachers there too, generally all nice people. You may not believe me yet, but you will struggle meeting too many Thai friends ( I say this as half Thai myself). Doubt you will be able to find too many Thai flat mates. They mostly live with their families.

Check out the Bankgkok Metro when you hit town for a better run down of where to live and were to hang out. Occasionally some expats advertise for flat mates too.

Good luck and enjoy BKK.

[thaihome]

I'll be working in central Bangkok, opposite Lumpini Park on Rama IV. I don't want to have to commute very far, but understand that living in central Bangkok is more expensive than elsewhere. Can anyone give me the lowdown, or links to a site, on good places to live

I think the suggestion of the area around the Malaysia hotel is a good for you. This is an area at Rama IV and Sathorn intersection. I have seen it spelled Soi Sri or Si Bamphen.

TH

[MsNina]

Thanks so much for all the information!

Not mingle with the men who ..... So your only going to mingle with women? 

Funny, you're not the only person who's said that... Honestly, most of my friends here in Melbourne are women, so I'm used to it!

A few other people have also recommended the area around the Victory Monument. The Lonely Planet guide says "There aren't a lot of cultural sights nearby, but the area is perfect for those who have been away from civilisation for a while and need bookshops, cinemas and shopping malls. The only drawback is that the nightlife closes with the shopping malls."

Is this true? Firstly, how far away are the cultural sights? And _is_ there no nightlife there? And if not, how far away is the nightlife?

Cheers.

[otherstuff1957]

The cultural sights - museums, wats, palaces, etc... are mostly located near the river, but quite frankly, Bangkok isn't Paris or Rome or London! You can see the cultural stuff in a couple of days. As for night life in the Victory monument area, it won't compare with Sukumvit, but there are a couple of places to go. There is a Thai Folk Music Bar off of Rang Nam called the Raintree and a jazz place near the Phaya Thai BTS station that I have beem meaning to check out. Aside from those, you can usually find live music at the beer gardens outside of one of the big malls - ECV, World Trade Center, Pratunam Center, Siam Square, National Stadium, etc... If you want to go to a Thai Disco, try the Hollywood on Ratchada Pisek - a short taxi ride away. If you want to see Russian and Thai hookers glaring at each other, try the Novatel Disco near Siam Square

I'd echo the others advice about staying near the Skytrain. If you can get within walking distance of a station you will be in good shape for commuting as well as doing the tourist stuff.

You may be able to find Thai roommates, but most of the single Thai women I know live with their families. The ones that don't, well I don't think that you would approve of their lifestyles!

Learning a little Thai is a good idea. If you are serious about it, try learing the Thai alphabet. It's quite a challange, but being able to read street signs, etc..., will give you much more confidence about traveling outside of Bangkok.

[Axel]

In the area around Lumpini Park/Rama IV/Silom-sois you should be able to find lodging.

It would be easier to come to here and than walk around, if you like a building go in, ask for the office and you will find a manager who knows some English and can tell you if something is available, price etc. By doing this you save the owner the agent's fee, (usually one month's rental) which you can use to negotiate. Negotiate in any case, as said, the managers do speak some English.

Usually, they do add maintenance fee and a flat rate for water but charge electricity at cost.

Transportation is easily available, sky train and, soon, sub-way are air-conditioned, so are metered taxis; tuk-tuks have natural air con

Before that, have a look in this site's hotel guide. Suggest stay 1-2 months to have sufficient time for apartment hunting.

Thailand is rather tolerant. You out yourself as feminist. Now I do not know exactly what such a person would do differently from hetero, gay or lesbians but would not worry too much. Thailand is quite tolerant although any form of public affection, even feminist is frowned upon.

The night life for any kind of activities is widely available, I might say around Silom, Sukhumvit, Victory Monument. The later the evening the less traffic problems there will be. There are talks about earlier closings of night spots (midnight was in the pipeline) under a social order. So the comments you received are wrong, shopping malls might close around 10 pm (or 9:00?) but convenience stores are open 24 hours such as are 7-11's, Top's supermarkets, Villa markets. You might be able to to pick up some drink or food, some candles for a late dinner at home to continue with any feminist activities, as you wish. But please be careful, ask for an ID-card, the government is rather strict to protect minors. The birth date is written in Thai, you might wish to know this year is the year 2547.

Cultural sites, well not so many. For sure the Grand Palace and Emerald Buddha is a most. You will be asked to dress up, cover your shoulders and proper shoes. This by the way is true in any public area. In Thailand we do not like too much feminist behavior in public. As for your remark on "exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industries". Kindly be careful, my wife of 25 years might take offence and she is not even a Thai.

As I said, tolerance is the most cherished thing in Thailand. Let me live my hetero life and I let you do your feminist ways, as long as we both don't do it in public. Neither of us should force such ways unto others, who might wish to live a different life. And, please no verbal abuse.

[MsNina]

Axel and otherstuff, thanks heaps for taking the time to give me such useful

advice.

Axel, I think you might be a little confused as to what feminism is... Feminism is a radical theory which proposes that women are actually human beings too... Seriously, feminism is a theory which at its most basic level - because there are many different streams of feminism - recognises a history of inequality between men and women and says that women should have political, economic and social rights that are equal to those of men.

A feminist is more likely to establish a women's refuge, organise an awareness-raising campaign about domestic violence, or run for parliament than she is to have a candle-lit dinner with a minor! And as feminism is not a mode of sexuality, there aren't really any particularly feminist ways of being affectionate in public, so hopefully you won't have a problem with me being feminist in public!

[Yohan]

run for parliament than she is to have a candle-lit dinner with a minor!

Hi, MsNina

You might run for parliament, but you should not forget, that you have to be elected by the people....

Last Sunday the presidential election of Austria was not a good result for feminists, despite that we are a female dominated society in the center of Europe.

There were only 2 persons to be elected (either one man or one woman) by a one vote by each citizen (not like the voting in the USA)

The female candidate failed, despite that the voter majority were women.

Only to be a woman is not enough to be elected by women for leading positions......

Better to forget about feminist ideas.....

In your case I recommend you a candle-lit dinner with a minor or withwhom ever you like....Bangkok can easily offer you such events, should you decide to visit Thailand.... however you will have to pay for that, for both of you..... and this is not really, what a radical feminist likes to do........

There is another way, and this is to be a nice girl.....And we men like nice girls and we invite them for candle-lit dinners, and sometimes even marry them......

My Japanese wife was such a case for example......(1976 in Germany)

Johann

[Axel]

Axel and otherstuff, thanks heaps for taking the time to give me such useful advice.....

MsNina, seems I am confused, as I never heard of this and let's face it your first mail sounded a bit kinky looking for room-mates and being a feminist. Apologies for this.

Meanwhile, I said it already the Thais are very tolerant and their ideology is commonly based on Buddhism. I am not sure if they would understand what 'radical feminism' means but would assume you will be save and welcome as long as you do keep the radical part to yourself.

By all means do come here, observe, learn but try not to actively campaign your ideas, which somebody (even me did so ) might mis-understand.

So this feminism is more on a political or social behaviour? Try not to rally for it as long as you are a guest in the country.

[MsNina]

Axel, don't worry, I won't be staging any one-person rallies in BKK. I'm sure I'll be able to keep my feminism well-hidden from all the sensitive Thais .

Yohan, how sweet to see that you're following me... Lucky for me that I'm a woman, not a girl, and will not be getting married.

For more lessons on feminism, maybe check out my views elsewhere on this site. And now, back to BKK!

[samran]

Funny, you're not the only person who's said that... Honestly, most of my friends here in Melbourne are women, so I'm used to it!

From Melbourne hey? Not a bad place if I do biasedly say so myself.......

[MsNina]

are you a melbournian too?

[Jeepz]

I should also emphasise that I am a feminist woman and have no interest in mingling with the men who sustain the exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industries.

Interesting perspective. Of course, if I recall Dworkin, any sexual overture initiated by a male is rape. So that leaves most of us y-chromosone enabled individuals outside your circle.

Of course, no longer being a devotee of CGWC, that leaves you outside mine, at least in terms of affiable intimate intercourse. I do try to remember that regardless of sex, age, or physical attributes, many people have interesting ideas, beliefs and experiences. They can occasionally be worth the time to talk to.

I do hope you find a pleasant abode and find Thailand an interesting place to live.

Jeepz

[samran]

are you a melbournian too?

yup, but BKK is definetly my alternate home. My travels now find me in Canberra getting flogged by a post grad degree!

[Nat]

Funny, you're not the only person who's said that...  Honestly, most of my friends here in Melbourne are women, so I'm used to it!

From Melbourne hey? Not a bad place if I do biasedly say so myself.......

I second that afterall it is the most livable city

[MsNina]

most liveable equal with vancouver

... canberra, eh? .... my condolences

Bangkok should be quite an experience after Melbs... I hear that the air there is great, of a quality to rival Melbourne's.

[natee1]

Ms Nina, you may want to check out the area around Tonglor Skytrain station, too.

Bring one of your new workmates along to do the talking. Lots of foodstalls, openair restaurants, some upscalebars/discos, and I am afraid the odd unavoidable karaoke bar.

There are more cultural "things" to do here than people have reported, that is if you are interested in Thai history&culture (yeah, yeah, I know the kind of comments I'll get for this), and in Buddhism.

Axel -never heard of feminism -some sort of kinky sex? The two of you nicely chatting along... Am I missing something here?

[Axel]

Axel -never heard of feminism -some sort of kinky sex? The two of you nicely chatting along... Am I missing something here?

Not really natee1, seems I mixed up feminism with feminine.

The more I learn about in this forum, the more I understand that these two have absolutely nothing in common.

[Jeepz]

Axel~

Difference between feminine and feminist is a bit like the difference between apple cider and apple vinegar.

Jeepz

[MsNina]

Jeepz, some feminists would take great offense at that - there are some who believe that wearing stilettoes is empowering, that using one's looks in, for eg., business deals is a legitimate use of a woman's body, or that declaring one's inner slut is a sign of liberation. These feminists would declare themselves to be extremely feminine.

[taxexile]

some feminists would take great offense at that

lets hope so.

[Jeepz]

MsNina~

I refrain from the pedestrian reply, "Yes, I met some such individuals on Walking St some time ago. Save the high heels, I believe they met all the other qualifications."

Radical feminism may be your solution to the jostling of reality. It isn't mine. For me, it fits in the spectrum around the area of UFO cults, Holocaust Revisionism, and most Christian missionaries.

If it meets your needs and you are satisfied with it, I cast no stones at you for being a member of the wymyn's movement. In the words of a fair to middling crooner, "Whatever gets you through the night." It is simply a tad tart for my taste.

Jeepz

[Drewcifer]

MsNina,

I think you will probably find BKK a fun and easy city to live it. But you

might want to consider leaving the feminism at home. To be honest, the Thais

simple dont understand it.

Yes, I agree the exploitation of anyone (man, woman or child) is bad. But if

you think that Thailand (and Asia in General) is populated by meek sumbissive

women, then I think you really have no understanding of the local culture.

My advice to you would be to shed whatever preconceptions you have about

Thailand, and get to know the Thais on a personal level. Just try to remember that just because its not the way Western cultures work, it doesnt mean that its bad.

-Drew

[MsNina]

how do i leave my feminism at home?? Feminism is not some kind appendage I can put on and take off whenever I feel like it... it's me.

And I certainly don't think that all Thai women are meek and submissive and have never said such a thing. I'm a feminist!! As if I'd believe or say a thing like that!

[Drewcifer]

MsNina,

Perhaps it just what passes as feminism in the United States these days. If by feminism, you mean, being assertive, well then by all means bring that to Thailand (but I would recommend you learn the Thai ways first).

Perhaps I'm just gun shy when I hear that term (living in Berkeley will do that to you). There a feminist is a woman with a bull horn who tells you you should be ashamed for having external genetalia.

[Khun Larry]

Big Yawn. YYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

[otherstuff1957]

Getting back to the original topic... Thailand has it's ups and downs, but if you can keep your sense of humor and an open mind, you will do just fine here. Just remember, you are in a different country, so learn to operate on Thai time and keep a package of tissues in your pocket!

[anamore]

I agree with Drewcifer. Around 1980 I heard and red for the first time about american feminisme or women's liberation. There had been demonstrations in rather big city's and the young women were screaming 'come on ma burn your bra', along with other things giving expression to their feelings about woman's rol in society.

At that time I was 20 years old and living in Lisbon, where I was born. This whole issue was very strange to me. I also didn't see men as opponents or as the ones to be held responsible for the situation of women. I thought :if something has to be changed than it has to be done together. And being a student at university and before that at high shool I was very aware of the political and social issues at that time but nobody saw problems as a men versus women question.

A couple of years later I moved to Holland and discovered the feministemovement.

the radicalisme of their thoughts hoewer has made it impossible for me to identify with the movement. At the same time comparing the way people lived in both countries and the relations between the sexes I had to came to the conclusion that even thou feminisme in south europe didn't play a rol in politics women were already longer time busy finding more equality and possibilities in and outside their homes. My coworkers thought often that I wasn't 'liberated'. But I would say wel I don't talk so much about it as you are used to hear but I just do it. And in fact at home and at work I always managed to get ahead not by being radical but just by doing the things that I thought I could do and by convincing others that that the beste was for us all. In fact not a revolution,but an evolution and I even got the men around me to help me most of the times . I think my way of looking at feminisme is still strongly influenced by the way I was educated. This will also go for Thailand I guess, they don't relate to it.

But feministes have got many issues in the political agenda and taken care that laws where changed and the startposition of women got beter. The people who are now 20 don't know anything about it but much has changed the last decades. But europe is not yet the place where women rule together with men. In fact they still earn less for the same work, are nearly never represented in the higher levels of industry, educational institutions of governmental ones. Have to do the shopping clean the house and take care of the kids after work,etc.

Nina I wish you well in bkk.