Tonykalniev

Hi guys,

Today was the day to go and test drive the Tesla Roadster again. I say again, because I tested it before in Los Angeles, but I was only a passenger and it was only 5 minutes of fun then.

First off, I would like to start with a few basic specs about the car:

Tesla Roadster standard, not top model

top speed 200km/h

0-100 in 3.9 seconds

range 350-400 km

7 hours to recharge

54 kwh lithium ion batteries

2 seater

power cable included

no fuel

no oil changes

8.5 million baht

brand American

Thanks to Eton Import for these 2 electric cars (Nissan leaf and Tesla Roadster). We arrived at their car park and saw the white Tesla sitting in the front. It is smaller than I remember (hmm). However, it looks very beautiful. All the exterior panels are carbon fiber for reduced weight. The car is extremely low to the ground. The tires used are Yokohama Neova, a special and secret formula to allow the non slip from the high torque of the motor.

We opened the trunk first. From rear to front: a small trunk is seen with the charging cable in it. The trunk is small, but bigger than the horrible boot space of the Honda Brio, Smart and many other cars. Then comes the controller box with the Tesla Motors logo on it and the AC motor (designed by Nikola Tesla) is underneath the controller box. After that the battery pack, followed by the 2 seats. Opening the front bonnet contains the A/C, electronic brake pump, ABS, cooling system for the batteries and the motor and so on. The vehicle does not have power steering, which I will mentioned how it feels like later on. The roof of the car is a hard top. It can be removed, but we didn't want to do that today, due to heat and pollution.

So entering the car takes quite an effort. I don't remember it being so hard (that's the second thing that I don't remember. why?). But once you get inside and settle yourself in the seats, they are very comfy. The middle contains the hand brake, followed by an ipod/iphone connector and then the drive buttons. A small screen is after that that gives details about a lot of information of the car. The reading said it estimates 130km of further driving. above that you have A/C controls and the Sound system that is a touch screen. The plastics in the car feel cheap, although the leathers feels like better quality than the Mercedes' and BMW's in Thailand. Leg space is great, but you cannot pull back your seats. the gauges are not very visible as the top of the steering blocks it from your view. Air conditioning works great, especially in this heat so I put it at 80% blowing.

Ok, turn the key and a "ting tong" sound appears followed by the sound of cars on the road. I pressed "D" button and of the car went. I had to make a kind of u-turn. That did take a little effort at low speed without the power steering. If there are any female buyers, it will be annoying for them I guess. But for men it is building up a little muscles. No power steering was chosen because it wouldn't drain the battery as well as on high speed it is very effective and doesn't hinder any driving feeling.

dam_n! Traffic. However, I know a back soi that will lead me to the highway, thus making a big circle around. So for now we are stuck. The car actually feels great in traffic. The regenerative barking is very heavy so you basically never use brakes up to the last 2-0km/h. It is a totally different driving experience. the A/C runs great. The car's suspension is great for such a race car. I am surprised. It isn't too stiff or too soft. The car handles potholes very smoothly (sri nakarin is a horrible road).

Finally reached the soi. Let's take a left (humpf! steering). Ok, I am just going to step on it halfway. Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This thing flies. It has such torque and acceleration, your body gets pushed into the seats as if you were in a roller coaster! Oh, people...I have to slow down. Passed them so let's try again. THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, car crossing, regenerate a little. Again! WWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The speed 0-100km/h is 3.9 seconds. That is more than a 30 million baht Ferrari or Lamborghini. This thing is insane, and it isn't even the top model! Let's go again! LOOK AT EVERYTHING PASSING BY SO QUICKLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally reached a turn for the highway. I stopped to let all other cars pass, Then I will floor the car. Let's......GO! ...................UNBELIEVABLE! The Tesla grin has appeared on my face again. Now I needed to slow down because I caught up with everyone else almost instantly. The only sound that the car makes during acceleration is "whooeeeeezzzzzZZZZZZZ". Once you go into high speed you hear the tires and the air flowing over the glass and roof.

After an hour of testing, we came back to the parking. I glanced at the small screen of estimated range. It read 130km still. I guess the regenerative braking is very strong. Coming outside of the car you could hear the cooling system at work. Although the top speed is 200km/h, I believe a Veyron's top speed of 400+km/h is completely useless. It is the acceleration that matters!

Thanks to Eton Import for bringing this car to Thailand. However, anybody ready to buy this car will have to fork over 8.5 million baht. So if you have this money in your pocket and are considering of showing off, then buy this car!!!!!!!!!!!! And don't worry about maintenance because Tesla engineers are coming from the States to train Eton's mechanics so that warranty will still be included for the car.

Thanks everyone. I apologize for not making a video. I was driving and totally forgot about it. Speaking of forgetting, do you remember I spoke about not remembering small negative details of my previous encounter with the car in LA? Well, the car is so much fun and exciting that such little things are easily forgotten.

Enjoy my pictures and go to test drive it yourself!!!!!!!!!

Tony

Test drove one, when they first arrived at Eton. Surprise the heck out of me for being so quiet, but acceleration in sport mode was surprisingly fast. Eco mode is as expected, a bit sluggish but when in bangkok it's not really too bad. Won't mind getting one, once they got the supply chain set up for maintainance and parts.

Just wondering though, what would cost more. Petrol for honda Jazz or Electricity for the Leaf, for a month. Is there any comparison done on the net?

What about the cost efficiency of the vehicle? I'm talking about $(fuel)/mth, creature comfort, range, etc. I typically put in at least 200km a week driving, so with the leaf, it's at least 2 full charges, or 1/2 tank of gas in a furtuner (roughly 4baht/km).

I really wish these company with electric cars would give a $/km rating instead of km/L or L/100km or mpg, etc. Forget the petrol equivalent BS, just give the straight $ value, much easier to compare then.

The Nissan leaf gets roughly 5.47km per kw/h, 1kw/h in Thailand will cost approximately 3bht depending on your location and electricity supplier.

So for each 1,000km it would cost roughly 549 bht which in comparison with a petrol car is dirt cheap.

A current model Toyota Corolla would use roughly 73 Litres of fuel in that time and depending on fuel prices say 30bht per Litre that would be roughly 2,190bht

Thank you Tarric. I was too lazy to calculate...

Yes i do know the prices for the new solar panels and i was surprised when i read the article myself too. Here it is:

http://www.bangkokpo...solar-solutions

one solar panel at 400 baht is nice. the guy had a bill of 4400 baht per month. a 20,000 baht setup made him slash it by half to 2500 per month. I think that is effective. if you do double that you could essentially go off the grid, especially if you have an electric car.

my bill currently is 2000 baht. his setup would almost get me off the grid. once i have an electric car, just install that double setup and you are set...so 40,000 is needed i guess...

I understand that solar systems can be made quite cheaply, however most of us arent going to messing around with defective solar panels and old car batterys. For the rest of us to put it together safely it would cost as I said a couple of hundred thousand baht. Also being carbon neutral and not having an electricity bill are two very different things in Thailand, if you get the feed in tariff for producing clean energy you get 11bht per kw/h, however buying electricity costs only 3bht per kw/h.

I admire what your trying to do, I really do, but I dont really think its possible with the best of the current solar technology let alone with a bunch of old car batterys and defective panels.

If you drive even 100km per day thats 18.28kw/h of energy you would need a 4.5KW solar power system just to break even, to give you some sort of an idea even with top of the range panels thats 18 panels. Plus the required inverter for selling back power to the grid when you werent charging your car the cost would be quite large the inverter itself costs 150k+ retail, the guys you point out have no such issue as they are just storing the energy in car batterys (which is incredibly dangerous without the proper overcharge and overload protection).

I only point this out because I am in the solar power system industry for a living and I know how expensive this technology is especially in a place like Thailand. However if you've got your heart set on carbon neutrality i'm sure my company could help you out in a couple of months when we start business.

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I also know of certain dangers involved. However, rather than doing nothing, I want to show how to become aware of energy usage. This is one step forward that doesnt involve high cost (only for the rich people). A Tesla roadster is only for those that can afford it. I dont have such a budget.

It would be great to work with you. I have a Toyota Yaris and soon will be converting it into an electric car. The conversion has an issue. If I am stuck in traffic, the motors dont regenerate so the alternators dont charge the 12 volt batteries. I need to make a solar roof for the car (similar to my profile picture) so that it can charge the 12 volt batteries. Do you think you can design such a solar panel? It has to have a smooth design the same dimensions as the original metal roof. I know it may be costly, but again, it is for a design perspective and a show piece.

Thanks again

I admire you will to lead by example and by willing to cop the costs that come along with being the first to adopt new technologys.

If you know of a few people interested in roof panels for their vehicles I can ask my supplier if they would be interested in making a limited line of roof based solar panels. I dont think the panel sizing is going to be the issue though, engineering the roof so it accepts the panel without weakening the structure and watertightness of the car is going to be the challenge, I know of some manufacturers in Thailand who make flexible light panels, you could always find some way to affix them flush to the roof with some heavy duty adhesive, the air rushing over the panels would keep them down at high speed especially if you perhaps affixed a small wind deflector.

If you find enough people interested in the flexible panels I could set up some form of group buy for you with a manufacturer I know in Thailand.

Edit: If you can work out the requirements for fitting the panel i'll set what I can do finding a custom sized flat panel.

Great. Thank you so much. As for my mom's Honda Fit Hybrid, same thing is needed. I will try to measure the dimensions of the roofs on each car and send a few pictures too. Do you also need the types of batteries? Also what type of inverter is needed? or is it directly to battery supply? Anway, here is my e-mail: [email protected]. Let me know yours in order to send full details to you.

Thanks

Yep. i have research the tax here as well. thailand has no clear tax structure for ev. I guess the owner of eton has incorporated his profit as well. Just digging for this info gives you a headache mate. He brought in the tesla and it will cost about 8.5 million baht, which is exactly the 200% tax, because the tesla is not the top model...

The excise tax for electric vehicles has been clear and concise for several years now - it's 10% excise tax, the same as Hybrids. All other taxes (import, interior and VAT) as per normal.

No research necessary for me, it's part of my job

allright. I dont know the tax here very well. but those are the prices stated by eton. anyway, I am going to convert my toyota yaris into an electric car soon.

It's OK - all I was really asking is, do Eton have a way to get them out of Japan with the Japanese gov't incentives in place? - the obvious answer given ETON's pricing is no

As for registering a modded vehicle, an engineer's certificate and an inspection down at DLT will do it.

All current markets this car is officially sold in have gov't subsidies in place to make it affordable - and there's no such plans on the table for TH at this time.

aha thanks. That will do the trick. What is DLT? and does that mean i have to convert the car and then go there or go there before i convert the car?

Hi guys, if you are interested in Ev life, check the following website. It is a good documentary of Life with Tesla. Sign in with your e-mail and check your email. you will have a free copy of the documentary.

http://lifewithtesla.com/life-with-tesla-the-documentary/

Yes i do know the prices for the new solar panels and i was surprised when i read the article myself too. Here it is:

http://www.bangkokpo...solar-solutions

one solar panel at 400 baht is nice. the guy had a bill of 4400 baht per month. a 20,000 baht setup made him slash it by half to 2500 per month. I think that is effective. if you do double that you could essentially go off the grid, especially if you have an electric car.

my bill currently is 2000 baht. his setup would almost get me off the grid. once i have an electric car, just install that double setup and you are set...so 40,000 is needed i guess...

I understand that solar systems can be made quite cheaply, however most of us arent going to messing around with defective solar panels and old car batterys. For the rest of us to put it together safely it would cost as I said a couple of hundred thousand baht. Also being carbon neutral and not having an electricity bill are two very different things in Thailand, if you get the feed in tariff for producing clean energy you get 11bht per kw/h, however buying electricity costs only 3bht per kw/h.

I admire what your trying to do, I really do, but I dont really think its possible with the best of the current solar technology let alone with a bunch of old car batterys and defective panels.

If you drive even 100km per day thats 18.28kw/h of energy you would need a 4.5KW solar power system just to break even, to give you some sort of an idea even with top of the range panels thats 18 panels. Plus the required inverter for selling back power to the grid when you werent charging your car the cost would be quite large the inverter itself costs 150k+ retail, the guys you point out have no such issue as they are just storing the energy in car batterys (which is incredibly dangerous without the proper overcharge and overload protection).

I only point this out because I am in the solar power system industry for a living and I know how expensive this technology is especially in a place like Thailand. However if you've got your heart set on carbon neutrality i'm sure my company could help you out in a couple of months when we start business.

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I also know of certain dangers involved. However, rather than doing nothing, I want to show how to become aware of energy usage. This is one step forward that doesnt involve high cost (only for the rich people). A Tesla roadster is only for those that can afford it. I dont have such a budget.

It would be great to work with you. I have a Toyota Yaris and soon will be converting it into an electric car. The conversion has an issue. If I am stuck in traffic, the motors dont regenerate so the alternators dont charge the 12 volt batteries. I need to make a solar roof for the car (similar to my profile picture) so that it can charge the 12 volt batteries. Do you think you can design such a solar panel? It has to have a smooth design the same dimensions as the original metal roof. I know it may be costly, but again, it is for a design perspective and a show piece.

Thanks again

Yes i do know the prices for the new solar panels and i was surprised when i read the article myself too. Here it is:

http://www.bangkokpo...solar-solutions

one solar panel at 400 baht is nice. the guy had a bill of 4400 baht per month. a 20,000 baht setup made him slash it by half to 2500 per month. I think that is effective. if you do double that you could essentially go off the grid, especially if you have an electric car.

my bill currently is 2000 baht. his setup would almost get me off the grid. once i have an electric car, just install that double setup and you are set...so 40,000 is needed i guess...

Yep. i have research the tax here as well. thailand has no clear tax structure for ev. I guess the owner of eton has incorporated his profit as well. Just digging for this info gives you a headache mate. He brought in the tesla and it will cost about 8.5 million baht, which is exactly the 200% tax, because the tesla is not the top model...

The excise tax for electric vehicles has been clear and concise for several years now - it's 10% excise tax, the same as Hybrids. All other taxes (import, interior and VAT) as per normal.

No research necessary for me, it's part of my job

allright. I dont know the tax here very well. but those are the prices stated by eton. anyway, I am going to convert my toyota yaris into an electric car soon. can you tell me the process for registration? it is an existing body chassis so safety is still there, but total refurbishment of the power-train. it will be fully electric. do i just need to show what i am going to change to it?

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you actually timed it. There's no way it'll do 0-100 in much less than 11 secs, no matter how much you charge the batteries, what mode you use, nor how petite the single driver is.

There were some internet myths floating around a few months ago stating 0-60mph was 7 secs, but they were based on pre-production rumors and completely incorrect - it would appear you've got your numbers from these?

EDIT: While we're at it, I'm curious what ETON said regarding the Thai price?

Well, if you want go to test drive it at eton. its free. all you need is to make an appointment.

Of course the price is based on the thai tax (200%),. imported from japan at 900,000 baht, it becomes 2,700,000 baht. Its rediculous. that is not his fault, but the government. but if it is priced at 900,000 baht in thailand, would you buy it? its cheaper than most cars, faster and never pay fuel, oil changes, never morry about maintenance for the next 7 years or so, other than tires and brakes...

so try it, time it, decide...

Someone got something wrong there - there's only 10% excise tax on Electric and Hybrid cars in TH, so even with the 80% import duty, interior tax and VAT, the total taxes on 900K Baht CIF would be 1,047,640 Baht.

I'm not getting into the Electric vs Oil debate as it's futile - at this point in time in Thailand, oil wins and electric loses no matter how you cut it. Hopefully that'll change in the future though..

Yep. i have research the tax here as well. thailand has no clear tax structure for ev. I guess the owner of eton has incorporated his profit as well. Just digging for this info gives you a headache mate. He brought in the tesla and it will cost about 8.5 million baht, which is exactly the 200% tax, because the tesla is not the top model...

here is a link that shows it clearly. sorry i didnt take a video of it myself.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow#p/u/9/6m_iIbX0gmA

now range: 200 km full charge. obviously it various on your driving. if 90km/hr, it will be around ~140km...200km is for 70 cruising...However, nissan stated that even if you push your car and have every electronic gadget on, you will never lower your range less than 100km...which seems fair enough.

I didnt have the time to test this cruising range...sorry about that. Nevertheless, i am not a automotive journalist, just a guy with a dream...

Tonykalniev[/b]']

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds

I think you mean 0-75 km/hr in 7 seconds, (the Nissan Leaf does 0-100 in 11-12 secs range) - Off the line it feels faster than this, due to it's electric motor making max. torque at 0 RPM, but the torque tails off as revs increase, so actual acceleration times to driving speeds are more like a 1.3L - 1.4L gasoline engine.

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you actually timed it. There's no way it'll do 0-100 in much less than 11 secs, no matter how much you charge the batteries, what mode you use, nor how petite the single driver is.

There were some internet myths floating around a few months ago stating 0-60mph was 7 secs, but they were based on pre-production rumors and completely incorrect - it would appear you've got your numbers from these?

EDIT: While we're at it, I'm curious what ETON said regarding the Thai price?

Well, if you want go to test drive it at eton. its free. all you need is to make an appointment.

Of course the price is based on the thai tax (200%),. imported from japan at 900,000 baht, it becomes 2,700,000 baht. Its rediculous. that is not his fault, but the government. but if it is priced at 900,000 baht in thailand, would you buy it? its cheaper than most cars, faster and never pay fuel, oil changes, never morry about maintenance for the next 7 years or so, other than tires and brakes...

so try it, time it, decide...

Tonykalniev[/b]']

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds

I think you mean 0-75 km/hr in 7 seconds, (the Nissan Leaf does 0-100 in 11-12 secs range) - Off the line it feels faster than this, due to it's electric motor making max. torque at 0 RPM, but the torque tails off as revs increase, so actual acceleration times to driving speeds are more like a 1.3L - 1.4L gasoline engine.

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

Ok guys, Its good you are commenting and getting creative. But that "changing the power source to another" excuse is getting old. first off, should keep our current technology? do you know how much more polluting it is to run your 1 car on fuel??? do the logistics and R&D a little before commenting.

secondly, EV can be charged from clean sources. think of someone living near a mountain = wind power, near a stream = hydro power, thailand = solar power...I found out you can setup a refurbished (old) solar set for 20,000 baht that will slash your electric bills by more than half. do double that and you will have enough power to save electricity for your house AND your car per month. The organisation is called the Appropriate Technology Association (ATA). The are non-profit... if you are interested. think of it as a down-payment for less than a year of petrol....

Top Gear set it up. They drained the batteries before the episode was filmed. They also staged the Tesla Roadster. They don't enjoy EV's as they are silent and have no smell.

I read new tech everyday. There was another post which compared petrol, diesel, biofuel coal and solar. Then it compared how many acres of land each needs to power one car, either to extract or produce. solar wins by far!

please watch the below show for more detail on how to combine both solar and EV:

http://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow#p/u/11/PZyvjXHlBvA

And the excuse of the battery lasting 5-10 years, think of what time of batteries will be then. The Nissan leaf's batteries are 98% recyclable, as the company itself promised. They take the old packs and refurbish them.

Price of course is a different issue. Give EV's a chance. They are better than what there is now.

I have traveled all around the world. The main thing that captured me in Aussi TV was the commercials that the government places about road safety and the "what if" questions. I give excuses many times when I am driving with the "what if this happened?". My thai friends always replied: dont worry too much. Always. Ok dont worry until the moment happens? try to put some more measures to avoid that happening??? The government should place a budget into this. it will give jobs for production teams, jobs for tv channels, higher ratings for tv channels, maybe mix it with the monk for some budha speeches, etc etc. everyone benefits. (no more useless deaths also)

Hi guys,

Here I come again, with my electric vehicle ranting. However, rather it being a rant about my dream, it finally became a reality.

Last month, I tested my second electric car (first one was the Tesla Roadster). It was The Nissan Leaf. It was an unforgettable experience. All thanks to Eton Imports, who promised to help introduce EV's in Thailand. They are planning to introduce 4 EV's.

The car was silent when you just used the same technology as the Nissan March: press the start button without the key. Then you have a joystick-like transmission. Slide it into drive and off we are...silently.

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds. That is the same as the Honda Civic Euro type R. Then you have eco mode, which dramatically reduces the speed, but gives way more range.

Stuck in traffic (that's Bangkok for ya), I had the opportunity to look at the gadgets of the vehicle, as well as its interior dimensions. The car is very similar to a normal car. I currently drive a Toyota Yaris, my brother has a 2004 Honda Jazz and my mother has a 2011 Honda Jazz Hybrid (read my other topic). All normal buttons, same setup of airflow, same steering wheel, same seats, same pockets, etc. The center console had a similar design, except for its software. The navigation was set for Japan. I pressed to buttons and for 2 seconds I was so confused why Bangkok actually indicated it had charging stations! That was actually Tokyo. Then another screen comes up that displays what of your electronics are draining your battery. It shows the amount of voltage the A/C, radio, motor, lights and so on "burn". Because this is an electric car, most parts are custom designed to be as energy efficient as possible. The total amount of voltage that the electronics drained (radio and A/C at 25C) was 1.2V, which is in other words: nothing*.

*I read an article recently that showed Nissan introducing a new system for Japanese buyers. When your house has a power cut, the Nissan Leaf would use its battery to power the house. A full battery would allow 2 days of power for the entire house!!!*

The interior is so much more spacious than my bro's 2004 Honda Jazz. Front and back leg space is as if you were in a Mercedes s class. The boot is fine; larger than the Yaris, but smaller than the 2011 Honda jazz. Vision is great, with no dead spot to be seen, unlike its counterparts.

The ride is smooth. After driving it for an hour, I almost forgot that it was an EV, until you hit the accelerator and get pushed back into your seat and you hear that awesome whine like a jet airplane.

The odometer was interesting. No more rev count, no more gas tank sign. there was a big bar on the top that indicates regenerative braking and power output. On the right you had your battery %. And in the middle the speed you were doing. One note I still remember to this day is when I gave turn signals. The sounds was very different from your average car. It was quite pleasant.

Well, that's it folks. Join me next week Saturday for the next car in Eton's line-up, The Tesla Roadster in Bangkok! Until then, have a look at the following pictures:

Also, how long can an EV last when stuck in rainy season Bangkok traffic?

They don't use much power when stationary. In fact, it would only be the lighting and radio that used any power.

in addition to that, Nissan leaf has just released a new system for buyers in Japan where the battery of the car will be used to power the house in condition when there is a power cut. a full battery would power the entire house for 2 days!!!

To all,

We are kindly inviting you to join us for the breathtaking classical musical performance by

Mezzo-Soprano, Ms. Plama Gioreva,

accompanied by Mr. Mongkol Chayasirisobhon as Baritone and

Ms. Sun Hee Kim as piano.

This concert is a Gift from God and a Message for more Kindness, Tolerance and Humbleness, Love of all people and Return to the Spirit of Mother Earth.

Let’s embrace and celebrate together the rhythm of life.

The even will be on Tuesday, the 26th of May, 2011 at the Thai-German Cultural Foundation Auditorium on South Sathorn Road Soi 1, Bangkok, Thailand.

Tickets will be priced at 500 baht per person.

Please contact the following people for further details:

Tony Kalniev (+668-9981-9156)

[email protected], [email protected]

Aneta Nikolova (+668-1754-1042)

[email protected]

http://www.plamagioreva.com/

Thank you and hope to see you there!

With kind regards,

Tony Kalniev

Fixed the link, and I think we'll move this to the Pub.

Haha, thanks for the fix. what do you mean the "pub"?

Hi guys,Here is something to make you laugh other than the mostly troublesome news that we hear everyday. It is super funny! let me know what you think

well, i did my math and lets compare for a minute:

i took my mom's car and did a full tank with driving at its most efficient whenever i could. result is i just did a 26 liter gas-up, costing me 980 baht. for that i went 934km. the average my mom drives is 40km per day. considering in one month, i would cost me roughly 1300 baht (rough estimate and im being generous including the weekends).

how about you? and maybe you should do your estimate when the real value of diesel appears, then calculate how much it will cost to fill your humongous truck.

Nothing to compare.

I never drive any vehicle at ITS most efficient - I drive at MY most efficient.

Your mom drives 40 km a day? Well, that's roughly the same as I do on my bicycle every day and even on my worst days my CO₂ emissions per km are minimal in comparison to her's.

If I want to go to the local market or hardware store I'll take my scooter, unless its raining; if I want to enjoy a quiet drive and smell the roses I'll take my motorbike and sidecar. Either one gets around twice the mileage of your mom's shopping cart (more if you include the cost of re-charging the batteries and how that electricity was generated) and is considerably quicker and more fun.

If I am buying pet food (a quarter tonne at a time usually), going to the cash-and-carry in Rayong, the garden markets, on holiday, or taking any of my dogs to the vet in Naklua, I'll take my "humongous truck"; your mom's shopping cart simply couldn't do any of that.

Yes, I could have a shopping cart like your mom's for the local trips which would look "greener", but the reality would be that the environmental cost of producing that extra car would far outweigh any benefits from running it.

Even comparing like with like, try comparing a hybrid on a longer drive with its petrol (or preferably diesel) equivalent; the cost of lugging those batteries around makes for worse fuel consumption, not better.

ok, but consider this; dont you want some cool, new technology instead of being stuck with a 100 year old, expired tech?

You really don't have any idea of your facts, do you?

New York had a fleet of electric taxis in 1897. The first production petrol-electric hybrid, the Woods Dual Power, was made in 1917. The first production diesel, the Citroen 7U estate, wasn't made until 1933.

Advanced production diesel cars (and I freely admit mine isn't one of them) produce considerably less CO₂ emissions per km than any production hybrid and far less than any production electric cars, which are very inefficient once you factor in power generation and grid transmission losses. Once you include the additional environmental cost of producing hybrids/electric cars and their batteries they are clearly more of an environmental disaster than an environmental solution - which is why people like you and the electric car lobby prefer not to mention these facts.

Being "green" isn't really what its about, though, is it? Its really about Metroman showing off his "cool, new technology".

thanks for writing,

please read the other post on electric cars where most of your comments have my answer.

its also great that you use a bicycle. i miss using it as i did in belgium but in bangkok, it is unfeasible as there arent even sidewalks, let alone bicycle paths.

i know the history of electric propulsion and assist systems as you do, but 95% of the world population doesnt, so just needed to make a generalized point for easier understanding.

maybe car manufacturers should design the exhaust in such a way so that the fumes go straight into the cabin, maybe then people will think differently.

what is am confused about is why people always attack electric cars (which are at their infancy) and their harmful production process. lets take oil and its process, social (war) and environmental damage and psychological impact on drivers. have you as of yet, seen any camry hybrid or prius drivers do crazy stuff on the road, i havent.

but anyway, thanks for everyone for commenting, ill be off to making my next steps of acquiring an EV and self sustainable products to leave the grid...till next time

........I reckon to run your v8-efficiently and economically-you will pay as much as renting a 30,000 baht condo per month at 200km per tank (this i know, cuz my friend has a 2.5 v6 nissan 2010 and it runs at 300km before refueling the 65 litre tank), then take into account the tax, insurance, accident spare parts nu-sense etc etc

do your math...but of course if you have the money, dont worry about it. Ever increasing food, fuel, rent, inflation...you dont need to worry if you wipe your ass with 1000 baht bills

So, in my eyes i did the right thing...how about you?

In my eyes you're talking absolute nonsense, but that hardly comes as a surprise after your previous posts on this subject.

"a 30,000 baht condo per month" costs 30,000 baht (I don't see the relevance of the condo, but what's new?). For that I can currently buy 1,000 litres of diesel which will take my 3 litre turbo'd Toyota Vigo Prerunner around 11,000 kms (a lot more than my monthly mileage, and probably rather more than most people's as few clock up over 130,000 kms per year).

Although my tax is rather higher than yours for the Honda Fit, my insurance and spare parts (if needed) are considerably less. No idea what "nu-sense" is - non-sense?.

The Vigo has an 80 litre tank, which gets me 880 kms, more on long trips ; 65 litres would take me 715 kms around town. Is a Nissan really so bad that it only gets 4.6 kms per litre??

You seriously think that you and your Honda Fit are an example of being "green" to "the thai people"? Dream on. A Thai in Issan living in a wooden or bamboo hut, growing his own rice and living a relatively normal existence there probably has less effect on the environment in a year than you do in a day, driving from your air-conditioned city house to your air-conditioned city office in your air-conditioned city car. If you really wanted to be "green" you'd walk or cycle; failing that, next choice would be an electric bicycle; if you couldn't manage that and you had to have a car then at least the Prius is locally made and costs (tax free) little more than your Fit. Last and worst option would be importing a Fit: not as advanced as a Prius, higher emissions, worse fuel consumption, etc, and far more damaging to the environment overall than any diesel (or petrol) engined equivalent (or my pick-up) because of the environmental damage resulting from its production, importation and transportation - something those wanting to give the impression of being green seem unable to consider.

"do your math". Your version of being green doesn't work - it never has and it never will. What you have may be "greener" than a conventional car and produce less emissions, but the environmental cost of producing it is such that the car (and the batteries) would need to be used for several decades before you would see any sign of any benefits at all.

"So, in my eyes" you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

well, i did my math and lets compare for a minute:

i took my mom's car and did a full tank with driving at its most efficient whenever i could. result is i just did a 26 liter gas-up, costing me 980 baht. for that i went 934km. the average my mom drives is 40km per day. considering in one month, i would cost me roughly 1300 baht (rough estimate and im being generous including the weekends).

how about you? and maybe you should do your estimate when the real value of diesel appears, then calculate how much it will cost to fill your humongous truck.

ok, but consider this; dont you want some cool, new technology instead of being stuck with a 100 year old, expired tech?

well, everyone has their opinions...

I mentioned a lot of my reasoning in my other post. Please go through my profile or find the post here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/455379-electric-vehicles-in-thailand/

If you like, research also what thailand is doing with oil subsidies and once that budget will run out (being this month) what do you think will happen? I reckon to run your v8-efficiently and economically-you will pay as much as renting a 30,000 baht condo per month at 200km per tank (this i know, cuz my friend has a 2.5 v6 nissan 2010 and it runs at 300km before refueling the 65 litre tank), then take into account the tax, insurance, accident spare parts nu-sense etc etc

do your math...but of course if you have the money, dont worry about it. Ever increasing food, fuel, rent, inflation...you dont need to worry if you wipe your ass with 1000 baht bills

So, in my eyes i did the right thing...how about you?

I agree, what a waste.

There would be a long list of 25 30,000 USD cars that he could have bought in and doubled or tripled his money.

The new honda Jazz is a shit box.

@ Lecharivari

as Un employees, we need to set examples for Un staff as well as the thai people of efficient vehicles...

@ shocktreatment

you are also right. we could have gotten some super cool car and then sell it to compete against import cars' prices here in thailand, it has passed my mind...

however, to do this 1000% profit, we need to wait 5 years before selling it. we would then have depreciation as well as heavy maintenance on the large engine overheating (i see new mercedes on the side of the road all the time)

the jazz hybrid will enter the thai market at around 1 million baht. with depreciation on such a car over 5 years, considering fuel prices then, we would most likely break even or make a small profit as well.

something i would like to add; 4 years ago i looked through a japanese export website about used vehicles. i found the mclaren SLR (new costs 500,000USD). it was being sold at 100,000USD. I immediately told my mom to get that car, considering the amount of profit you can make here in thailand. the mclaren at that time was priced in thailand at 60 miillion baht. buying it for 3 mill and selling it after 5 years for say 30mill, that would be 1000% profit! sadly we didnt have that money...

to conclude, i see your point, but we are a "green" technology family (my mom is an environmental officer in UN). we NEED to make an example...

you have no idea how many people ask us questions about the hybrid jazz, which is a fairly simpler system than the prius. people are interested in technology and so we need to show them what is out in the world...

Very interesting infomation - thank you! I am really astonished about the low prize after import taxes...! Which is your import company?

In Switzerland I am driving a small electric car (TWIKE III) since 1997. 3 years ago, it was very hard to find a car for me and my Thai wife, which was pleasant to both of us and had the right size (not too big and not too small). We finally bought the Mazda 3 with the 2 litres engine - only because of its better safety equipment...

I am very interested in the Toyota Prius and could test drive the newest model for about 1 month in Switzerland. Its prize is OK for Thailand, but it has quite a small luggage compartment for its size. I am hoping that the newly announced Prius+ «minivan» will also come to Thailand.

His mother works for the UN, just one of the perks.

Embassy officials also have this luxury.

@ Lecharivari

as Un employees, we need to set examples for Un staff as well as the thai people of efficient vehicles...

@ shocktreatment

you are also right. we could have gotten some super cool car and then sell it to compete against import cars' prices here in thailand, it has passed my mind...

however, to do this 1000% profit, we need to wait 5 years before selling it. we would then have depreciation as well as heavy maintenance on the large engine overheating (i see new mercedes on the side of the road all the time)

the jazz hybrid will enter the thai market at around 1 million baht. with depreciation on such a car over 5 years, considering fuel prices then, we would most likely break even or make a small profit as well.

something i would like to add; 4 years ago i looked through a japanese export website about used vehicles. i found the mclaren SLR (new costs 500,000USD). it was being sold at 100,000USD. I immediately told my mom to get that car, considering the amount of profit you can make here in thailand. the mclaren at that time was priced in thailand at 60 miillion baht. buying it for 3 mill and selling it after 5 years for say 30mill, that would be 1000% profit! sadly we didnt have that money...

to conclude, i see your point, but we are a "green" technology family (my mom is an environmental officer in UN). we NEED to make an example...

you have no idea how many people ask us questions about the hybrid jazz, which is a fairly simpler system than the prius. people are interested in technology and so we need to show them what is out in the world...

Why not import something worthwhile if you can bypass the taxes?

Just saying that a Jazz hybrid would be at the bottom of my list if i could get tax free.

I agree, what a waste.

There would be a long list of 25 30,000 USD cars that he could have bought in and doubled or tripled his money.

The new honda Jazz is a shit box.

@ katasyd yes you are right on both points. we get the duty free benefit. and yes, we could have gotten something unique like a tesla roadster, but budget was an issue. in addition, if something happens to the car, lets say front bumper damage, we can easily and cheaply replace parts as the jazz is popular in thailand. same issue when getting a unique car. there are so many cool cars out there, we are just scared of maintenance problems.

but we did try to order the nissan leaf, but at that time the preorders were full so we couldnt reserve it...

I understand where you are coming from on body work but what about the hybrid engine etc?

From what i understand is Honda won't touch a grey market import Honda's for servicing and maintaining, my friend had a type R Civic and had a hell of time trying to fix certain engine codes and Honda Thailand would not touch it.

Hope the importer takes care of you.

I doubt its gonna break down, given honda's reliability record...we researched a lot about honda's hybrid system and there is still a honda from 2001 still running on the same engine, same batt, just normal oil changes, tires and brakes. Im just hoping she doesnt have a major accident with the car lol

Anyway, I am going to China to find this factory where they are willing to custom make a full electric car with a fairly fast motor for 17,000 USD. It wont be a Tesla roadster competitor, but it will beat 2.0 cc cars in acceleration. and it has a 280w solar roof to charge the car while parked...great price. I just wanna go there to see it for myself and test it. Do you know if cars from china are under the free trade agreement with thailand? as this is also not based on engine size, there shouldnt be any tax....