dcutman

Pre-Trial: This period can last a few weeks or a few months depending on the court’s caseload and the negotiated trial date. There is no discovery process in the Thai court system, so you will not have access to evidence before the trial. In general, there is little you can do to affect the way your case is presented. http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/legal-matters-in-thailand.html.

Now if we can get past this, we can say the B2 defense team has little chance or a big hurdle to overcome. Those few TVF members that have already convicted these two young men to (possible) death, or at the least life imprisonment, to think of yourself, family members or people you know that could go through this same system.

How vigorous would you defend the police or the Thai system then?

But anyway the topic is about a letter these young men sent to their hero. Some on TVF said its not from these boys, and I say it is. these kids are and have been scared shitless for months, and they know they are gonna die unless somebody with power helps them. They dont have much of a chance anyway with the Thai system. Why hang em JD and JTJ? What is it with you guys? Give a couple of days, weeks, months on this earth before they unjustly executed or put in prison for something they most likely didnt do, at least not by themselves, without help, that are watching and laughing at the bar waiting for the next victims to arrive.

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

Liar! You know thats a BS statement JD. There is no pre trial discovery process in Thai law.

Here i s how it goes in this case . All according to Thai law. The defense is required to submit their entire defense case by Dec 18, so prosecution has 7 days to research what the defense has in the case.. The prosecution has to produce nothing, except for the obvious. Suspects details (name and age) and what they are being accused of, and not much else. Its all in a total of 6 pages.

The prosecution is not required to divulge any evidence or witnesses witch was obtained by police during the investigation prior to the prosecutions testimonies , according to Thai. law.

What a joke, he should have been locked up and had the key thrown away

For doing 20 k over the limit?

Hardly a hanging offence.

Settle down and have a cocoa.

Actually the speed limit for licecned passenger van is 90kh, so 50kh over the speed limit. Unless something changed after the coup.

boomerangutang yes your right it was petty and rude my post, but I do agree with Jdinasia that the letter was a bit overly please feel pity and sorrow for me with violins playing. A 20 year old doesn't write a letter like this. Write a real heartfelt letter in their words not their lawyers. Let them speak.

Exactly how would a letter read from a 20 year old, poor migrant worker from Myanmar facing the death penalty for a crime he did not commit? In your opinion of course.

I did the same search I did last time, and it popped right up. Might want to check your spelling.

Clearly there is no credible source --- thanks for verifying as that is all I wanted to know.

Up to you.

I believe it was a reference to the one suspected kid in the BKK university. Nomsad? It was reported that he decided to go study in OZ because his reputation as a fantastic Thai citizen had been damaged by being implicated in this murder

Any link to the report or where you heard it?

Yep, I have seen it. But whats the point of giving you anything. You could try Google.com if you are so interested

So I take it you cannot provide a link or even say where you claim it was reported? Google search turns up nothing with his name and Australia that comes close to what you are saying was reported.

I did the same search I did last time, and it popped right up. Might want to check your spelling.

I believe it was a reference to the one suspected kid in the BKK university. Nomsad? It was reported that he decided to go study in OZ because his reputation as a fantastic Thai citizen had been damaged by being implicated in this murder

Any link to the report or where you heard it?

Yep, I have seen it. But whats the point of giving you anything. You could try Google.com if you are so interested

It convenient that there are poor and not Thai! The crowds hate them already and they have no money to get a ticket out. Sounds like a wrong place wrong time type of scenario.

I don't agree at all that 'the crowds hate them.' During the reenactment, there were many locals nearby, but not one called out disparaging names, as you would expect, when perpetrators of a heinous crime are paraded for the 1st time in public. The crowd was eerily subdued. It's as if the locals, like nearly all Thai following this case, are agreeing with the majority here: that the case has been worse than botched - it's full-tilt aimed at a frame-up, while concurrently shielding the Headman's people in every way possible. If in doubt, look at all the RTP have said and done since the 2nd head cop was appointed to head the investigation. And look at the restrictions mandated for anyone who might investigate anything which might implicate the Headman's people (*Mon, *Nomsod, *Mon's cop friend-who threatened Sean with death if he spoke out, *'Stingray' AC club bouncer with the sharks tooth ring who was photographed partying inches away from Hannah on that fateful night, .....and others who the cops are sworn to not touch with a ten foot pole).

I do not understand why we have not heard anything from the British. If there has been anything said by the British investigation team or any other British entity I would like to read it. Cheers

I think there are 2 basic reasons: #1 is they're attempting to take the 'high road' by not announcing any findings before the inquest, in early Jan. #2 is, they may not actually have any independently garnered evidence, and that would fit with their (the Brits') designated roles as OBSERVERS ONLY. Not allowed to gather evidence or interview anyone other than RTP, and you get one guess what the RTP's agenda is.

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

“The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."[/size]

Yes, I thought that was odd also. ...reference to Sean?

I believe it was a reference to the one suspected kid in the BKK university. Nomsad? It was reported that he decided to go study in OZ because his reputation as a fantastic Thai citizen had been damaged by being implicated in this murder

The court ruled that the statue of limitations of the case had already expired because the plaintiff failed to appeal within one month after the Appeals Court refused to accept the case which was a duplication of a case for which the Supreme Court has already acquitted the three defendants namely Phya Thai 1 hospital, Dr Yanyong Mangklavirat and Dr Santi Sutthipinthawong.

Mrs Priyanant faulted her lawyer arranged for her by the Justice Ministry for the failure to appeal the Civil Court’s ruling within one month causing the statute of limitations of the case to expire.

A bit confused here, if the supreme court had acquitted the defendants in the same case as the civil, why would appealing a civil courts ruling do FA?

deleted

I am just gonna underline and highlight some of the more comical statements in this article, that made me fall to the floor in laughter.

Thai fishing operators ask US to review Thailand's status

BANGKOK: -- Thai fishing operators associations on Thursday asked the United States to remove Thailand from its worst human trafficking watch list.

In a press conference, they said most operators complied with laws and were ready to prove their employment standards with the US.

Joining the press conference were representatives from the Employers’ Confederation of Thai Trade and Industry, the National Fisheries Association of Thailand, the Thai Overseas Fisheries Association, the Trat Fisheries Association and eight employers’ organizations including the Employers Confederation of Thai Business.

Somsak Thanomworasin, chair of the Employers’ Confederation of Thai Trade and Industry, said it was unfair for the US to include Thailand in its Tier 3 human-trafficking watch list because most employers did not treat their workers as the US accused.

He also said that the Thai government and employers jointly implemented solutions including collecting workers’ profiles and good welfare for employees.

Besides, the employer’s confederation studied issues concerning alien workers and seriously advised its members to provide their workers with good wages and welfare.

In the past 20 years, no members of the confederation had violated laws and the group was ready to prove its employment standard with US authorities, Somsak said.

The operators’ organizations proposed the government seal government-to-government labor agreements, set up an alien labour database and an Asean alien labour coordination center, take tough action against human traffickers , and import workers from other countries than Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam to prevent a labour shortage in the next two decades.

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

No, because the families asked for the end of speculation and confirmed that there is significant information that will come out in court that is powerful and convincing.

Apparently you are so consumed in defending the police and the guilt of these suspects that you cannot read and comprehend an entire post.

Hint:

"hypothetical scenario" I will have to give it to you though, your tenacity (,deleted> in reading and responding (although only partially) to every post that sparks a nerve, is impressive.

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

Maybe the govt should consider getting out of the farming biz

Thailand Encourages Rubber Farmers to Switch Crops

Move Follows Multiyear Slide in Rubber Prices

http://www.wsj.com/articles/thailand-encourages-rubber-farmers-to-switch-crops-1407839494

Rural Thailand to Try Again

This Time, Government Wants Farmers to Plant More Rubber Trees

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB108543997172720113

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

You seem genuinely confused about this. The accused have a right to know the details of the case against them in order that they can prepare . That has not been afforded to them, at least not in a timely or meaningful manner. This is their RIGHT, BASIC RIGHT...in the Thai jurisdiction as much as any other.

They do have the right to the general details of the evidence, agreed. Since you think that I am confused; please explain to me when they must get the specific details and what is required to be revealed? The same question for the defense, when must they reveal the specific details to the prosecution?

18 December.

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

You seem genuinely confused about this. The accused have a right to know the details of the case against them in order that they can prepare . That has not been afforded to them, at least not in a timely or meaningful manner. This is their RIGHT, BASIC RIGHT...in the Thai jurisdiction as much as any other.

Unfortunately, Prbkk this is not a basic right to the accused. Scary!

Effective pre-trial discovery concepts and procedures are unknown in Thailand, as is declaratory relief. Subpoenae duces tecum (summons) are available to force an opposing party to produce documents.

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/ressources/courts-in-thailand.html

Pushing up the trial date is completely unconscionable.

The trial will take quite some time.

Yeah, it will and so what ! So why move it up ? Because it will take quite some time ? Sorry, I do not understand.

Starting the process shows that they are taking the case seriously.

The defendants have indeed been in jail for awhile,

Andy Hall, a British activist who works with Burmese migrants in Thailand and has been assisting the defence team, said the lack of access to the prosecution case made the task of compiling the defence “almost impossible”.

He said: “Our team are confused about what evidence the prosecution have. We don’t know anything but media speculation. We’ll only know at the time we submit our own evidence. It’s an impossible situation – how do you prepare when you don’t know the case against you? That’s a principle of criminal justice, that you need to know the case against you to defend yourself.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/concern-trial-burmese-men-charged-murder-uk-tourists

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

Challenging? Thats quite the understatement.

The prosecution will have the entire defense case next week.

Last week they were formally charged with beating the Britons to death with a garden hoe, and raping Witheridge, and face possible execution. According to Nakhon Chompuchat, the lawyer leading the defence case, the start of the trial has now been brought forward from 25 February to 26 December, with the court on Koh Samui, the larger island near Koh Tao, demanding the full defence case be lodged in the next week, by 18 December.

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/concern-trial-burmese-men-charged-murder-uk-tourists

... the Millers said: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer ...

The suspects have a nigh on impossible case to answer, it seems to me, when they are not even permitted to know what it is.

Most likely this case is going to end, just as is started, a total cock up! With a total of 4 victims.

There was 18 mill tons when Thaksin Yingluck was in power and up to the coup. After the coup and up until just a few weeks ago there was still 18 million tons in govt stock piles. Today there is 17 million tons with 10 million tons exported so far to date.

I thought the govt got out of the rice biz after the coup?

That is the only way there can still be 17 mill tons in stock, if the govt is still buying it, right?

ALL police force officers, regardless of rank, and their families should have their assets thoroughly investigated.

For starters they could look into the unusual wealth of the present Chief of National Police Mr Somyot!!

And when they have finished with the police, they should start with the army!!

Pretty sure there is not enough labor or materials to build that many prisons. The government would have to turn Kao Tao back into a penal colony just for the crooked Major and above officers in the RTP.