pimay11

Let's keep things in perspective pls. Why is any of this worse than what we've seen very recently, with people getting shot and grenades going off and people dying? I sense a lot of fabricated indignation; the Reds are jittery, they KNOW they can get their faces blown off at any time by government (or rogue army) snipers.. It's chaotic, someone thinks they see military in the building directly overlooking their site.. It happens to be a hospital, but better safe than sorry.

Good of Dr. Weng to apologize though, respect.

What a load of tosh!! This mob is clearly out of control and even Weng (not known for being particularly honest) says so. A sad admission from a supposedly leader. But the fundamental issue is that even in War and I mean a properly declared War, there is such a thing as the Geneva Convention which all Countries abide by and one of the abiding principles is not to attack hospitals, the injured, the sick and the dying. I would suggest with respect Sir that sadly it is your own thoughts that are out of perspective.

completely agree you point ! and, practically they are bunch of criminals, do they understand this Geneva Convention ? sadly, I doubt if they have the minimum integrity of human being !

Do they understand the Geneva Convention? They don't even know where Geneva is much less what the Convention is. These are a bounch of miscreants pure and simple. Scum of the earth.

so the soldiers who they did not find opend fire ???

None of the reporters that were there have reported any shots fired have they?

I think Natthawut is making things up.

You THINK he is making things up? You are a very polite person.

yeah right but now he is in his new country changed his name and spoke to the world that montnegro now is his home forget takky senagare he aint coming back

How gives a ...? Only small minded people think that is all about the Montenegrin.

Hey calling the red protesters small minded is uncalled for.

It sure is lazurus. Only large minded people would drag dead bodies out of a hospital to display them on the streets of Bangkok. That is called honoring the dead I suppose. Only large minded people would enter a hospital then lie and say they found weapons and were shot at when they entered. You're right. Totally uncalled for.

Red-shirt leader Natthawut Saikeu insisted his group was monitoring movement within the Chulalongkorn Hospital and believed armed military men were using one of its buildings as a shelter because food supplies have been delivered there.

Natthawut claimed last night's raid stemmed from concerns that soldiers who were inside the hospital could shoot protesters as was the case during the clash on Vibhavadhi Rangsit Road.

The red-shirt leader claimed that the group could not find soldiers in the hospital compound because their commander was alerted about the move disclosed on the rally stage so all soldiers were ordered to leave the hospital.

Natthawut claimed they returned at 9 p.m. so the group decided to raid the building.

He also said soldiers in the hospital building opened fire at protesters when they entered.

Delivering food supplies to a hospital? Very suspicious indeed. Sholdiers opened fire when they entered the the hospital? This guy is a lunatic! Anyone that believes anything these reds say is more stupid than my old dog that eats concrete chips. No wonder people call him Nutthawut.

TR INN: Red guards captured a man "in Army uniform", interrogated him bhind Red stage, & found out he was one of them, albeit a drunken one.

Oops!

FF

So they are dressing like soldiers now? They might need to rethink the no colors thingy.

And dressing like police!

Pol Sgt-Maj Prinya Maneekhot, the police officer wanted in connection with the seizure of 63 M79 rounds, has been arrested /BkkPost

EU ambassador calls for peaceful resolution

The European Union's office in Bangkok Thursday called for upholding the law and seeking a peaceful resolution through negotiations to end the political predicament in a democratic manner.

EU ambassador David Lipman issued his statement after a meeting with four red-shirt representatives who delivered a plea for the EU to send observers to the rally site at Rajprasong in a bid to prevent a crackdown.

The plea was signed by red-shirt leader Veera Musigapong.

In his statement, the EU ambassador voiced regrets for the loss of life and those injured but stopped short of addressing the request for intervention to avert what Veera described as human rights catastrophe.

Sorry Verra even the EU is for upholding the law. You loose. Maybe you can try petitioning the Embassy of Samolia. I think you will get some support there.

TR INN: Red guards captured a man "in Army uniform", interrogated him bhind Red stage, & found out he was one of them, albeit a drunken one.

Oops!

FF

I suppose he was a fake red in a fake army uniform. And a red supported drunk? Unheard of. Oops for sure

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

"thaksin ordered the killing of thousands of innocent people..."??????????????

is there an archive where we can research on this killings???????????

"thousands ", eh?

and, "all innocents" , too

holy toledo, oh jesus, oh budhha, oh-my-god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

where is the the records, photographs, evidence, wwitnesses,etc.etc.

sealy did you just arrive in Thailand last week?

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

Turds perhaps?

How about DBPM. Democracy By Peaceful Means? As they are all peaceful and deplore violence as they continually demonstrate by their speeches and actions.

So... is that sarcasm or irony?

Or both?

Both.

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

Turds perhaps?

How about DBPM. Democracy By Peaceful Means? As they are all peaceful and deplore violence as they continually demonstrate by their speeches and actions.

MCOT: Seh Daeng: UDD leaders are wise to tell supporters not to wear red. UDD should take decisive action b/f Apr30. Army doesn't have enough troops to disperse rally

Does anyone have any speculation as why this guy has not been detained already and not allowed to spue this garbage?

Spell check! spew

MCOT: Seh Daeng: UDD leaders are wise to tell supporters not to wear red. UDD should take decisive action b/f Apr30. Army doesn't have enough troops to disperse rally

Does anyone have any speculation as why this guy has not been detained already and not allowed to spue this garbage?

It is amazing to see so many opinions about which criminal group has the most merit.

This is a lose lose situation here and the best you can hope for is the situation dissolves through apathy.

There isn't a single good option in the current stable of political candidates.

The lunatics have run the asylum for as long as anyone can remember.

Those of you with heated opinions really need to have a good look at the side you support and ask yourself why you pick that team.

You are spot on about the lunatics running the asylum. Hopefully they will dispurse and Bangkok can become normal again. But I think they have come to far to turn back now. It appears the leaders especially J, A and N have a death wish not to mention Dr. W. The worse part is they are willing to take some of these Isaan folks down with them. Sad but true.

Some insight for you on how the 2007 constitution came to pass

The government distributed hundreds of thousands of copies of the 2007 constitution prior to the vote.

People voted.

The referendum passed with a majority vote and the constitution was put into effect.

Under martial law yes . Still 10 millions thais voted against it . Very courageous of them

This means 85% of the population approved it. Very courageous of them. Martial law does not apply when you are in a private voting booth.

pornsasi I ask you again. Why would anyone make a public statement that the are willing to die if an election is not held in 60 or 90 days? I may be wrong but I don't believe their personal conviction is this strong do you?

The Rajaprarop from Petchburi to Indra hotel became one large parking lot.

But one thing is funny about the re-enforcements - if this is a peasant movement asking for more just wealth distribution, why are there many higher class cars among those that are coming protesting, like Mercedes Benz, BMW? You surely aren't a poor farmer if you can afford one of them...

Sorry for the long post. Now let me get my fireman's suit to prepare for all your flaming.

-------

So, you have some Mercedes cars and BM's parked by people joining .... can believe that, every mafia boss drives them and since this is the biggest gathering of criminals of all times, I'm not surprised they are there to see if they can make some money ... you must be a Thai and of course a red

I am not a Thai and I am not red. Said that I am surely not yellow either. I just reported the situation from this area as it looks like in the nights. As I went to the balcony to see a procession of the honk maniacs outside last night I spotted quite a high number of higher class sedans among the more typical pickups and motorbikes and thought I'd share that as it struck me as strange given what we were told that his rally was about.

This movement is a social revolt against an established order , basically a way for people to say that they are fed up with the establishment and want to be heard . I think K Anand said something similar . It cuts across social classes it would seem from what i hear . It is not a political movement per se , the reds have not voiced anything resembling a political platform . Just a way for people to say a change is needed , we have had enough and meanwhile lets party and kermess in the streets , much like May 68 in France . Of course some leaders with a personal agenda on their own , are taking advantage of it . I think repression by force would be a disaster for Thailand . Just a personal opinion however

I have to disagree with your personal opinion but we can agree to disagree. This rally started immediately after the courts ruled to sieze Mr. T's billions. The reds demands were to dissolve the lower house immediately and call for new elections. The PM tried to negotiate a settlement and offered an election of one year earlier than scheduled. If the reds adgenda was as you say they would have at least offered to consider this and get back with the PM. But surely you can see this was not their mandate. Now that things have gotten out of hand they have tried to convince the mob and everyone else it is a social revolt. They are in way over their heads and they know it. All the leaders stand to spend a lot of years in the Bangkok Hilton. Now they say they will fight to the death. I suppose to them death is a better option than going to prison. Consider this. Why would anyone be willing to die because an election cannot be held in 60 days or 90 days? They are so transparent.

JD I have been there and seen it with my own eyes it is huge. I am not a red supporter but when you see the size of this protest you will be amazed. Why dont you go and look for yourself?

PLEASE SHOW US YOUR PICTURES

I have been there a number of times with the last being the day before the grenade attacks. Each time the one thing that shocks me is how small the red shirt group is compared to the photos and news reports. It is easy to make groups look bigger in the media. In fact when you go to the red site you see they have numerous projectors set up going back from the stage but none of them are being used because the people don't go that far back.

The below were taken in the days following the group all moving to their current location. The first picture looks like a rather large crowd taken from the first sky bridge but the second is from the next sky bridge and you can see they only reach to the first sky bridge even though they are very spread out.

Point is, this was pretty much at the peak of their numbers there for day time crowds.

This one is looking the other way from the bridge. As you can see they have certainly claimed a lot of area with vehicles and such but the number of folks is not that great, even at the peak of their numbers though I will admit the numbers previously grew at night.

these pictures prove my point. the numbers were small when they were taken.

last night these same streets were packed with humanity.

Red Tide rising.

I honestly don't mean this as an insult but are you okay? Has the stress of the situation got to you that maybe you should seek medical help? Did you read what you wrote? You are saying pictures from a few weeks ago prove your point about last night? The entire point is nobody believes your claims of last night and ALL the facts and reports say the opposite (including those of the red leaders). PLEASE SHOW US YOU PICTURES OR LINK TO VIDEO.

jcbangkok I do believe earthpig is just trying to push everyone's button. We all know what he is posting is nonsense.

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

I can vouch for the confiscated cards of the people in my village who went to red red rally. I don't know the conditions of card return. But when they arrived their ID cards were taken and new red ID cards were given to them at a cost of 50 B.

I visited Ratchaprasong last night. The turn out of Reds is huge, and is increasing markedly by the day. Any discussion of the army attacking it appears to be absolute propaganda, and propaganda that is backfiring as it appears to be drawing more Reds to the battle zone. A Red crowd this massive hasnt been seen since the opening day of the protest weeks back.

It is not the Reds who need to fear the goverment. They understand that if the Army attacks them, the risk is that the soldiers will turn on their own officers. Its hard to believe that the Reds wont continue to move the boundries of of their encampment further out along Sukhumvit. It already runs from MBK to Ploenchit. How long before they own Asoke?

With Red numbers like this, it is the ancien regime who must be quaking in their boots. Any one at Ratchaprasong last night might be forgiven from wondering is this isnt fast turning from a protest into a revolution.

Get real please.

I seem to remember an American Hero named Paul Revere who became famous for his courage in the face of horrifying situations. I believe he is also most well known for his famous early warning system during the AMerican Civil War when he would ride through towns on his horse crying "The RED COAT's are coming, the RED COAT's are coming!"

Wiki RED

The word red comes from the Old English rēad.[5] Further back, the word can be traced to the Proto-Germanic rauthaz and the Proto-Indo European root reudh-. In Sanskrit, the word rudhira means. In the English language, the word red is associated with the color of blood, certain flowers (e.g. roses), and ripe fruits (e.g. apples, cherries). Fire is also strongly connected, as is the sun and the sky at sunset. Healthy light-skinned people are sometimes said to have a "ruddy" complexion (as opposed to appearing pale). After the rise of socialism in the mid-19th century, red was to describe revolutionary movements.[6]

Nice post. But it was the American Revolutionary War.

Anupong paints himself in to a corner by announcing what he won't do (use strong measures).

A general should keep all his options available.

Wrong.

A general should cross out those options that are counterproductive to his objectives.

Wrong. A general should keep all options available, and just as important, not broadcast self-limitations to adversaries. The Reds are dangerous adversaries. Some of their members have recently killed and wounded his fellow soldiers and officers. The Reds still maintain disguised combat trained men with combat weapons ready to deploy at a moments notice. You don't offer to play tiddly winks with an armed mob that is ready to ransack your house.

Wrong yet again

A general knows when to fight and when to retreat.

I'm afraid your blood lust for the reds has clouded your judgement.

Brahamburgers is spot on. It is obvious that RusellHantz knows nothing about military rules of engagement. I am not advocating any blood lust. But a commander NEVER publicly rules out any options when dealing with any adversary. If he/she does it puts them at a strategic disadvantage.

Anyone care to elaborate on why Thaksin has ceased to phone into the red protest? In my opinion he has instructed the red leaders to drive the reds into a crazed frinzy which was his origional plan. He has succeded. Once they reached this point he can disengage the video conferences and only give daily instruction to Nuttawut and co. by phone.

'Abhisit, who has been holed up in a military barracks for weeks because of the protests, added: "I have a duty to solve the problem. If I can't I should not be here."'

The above is a direct quote from the article at the head of this thrtead.

It seems that Abhisit has already commited himself to resign as he has not solved the problem and it appears that he is no nearer to solving it than he was when it started .. Time for him to go for the sake of Thailand, the Thai peoples' lives and the Thai economy. With the correct wording of a statement from him the present government could step down without any further lose of face.

The problem is also the fact that it now seems pretty certain that because of the overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrat Party will be dissolved.

So Abhisit would be doing the country a favour by resigning now and letting what remains of the Democrat Party form a new Party to stand for election. This would mean that there will be no disruption to the new parliament.

Ever hear of "innocent until proven guilty" my friend? Overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrate Party will be dissolved? Really? You must be privy to inside information the rest of us aren't. Care to share? We have all read the opinion of the EC but that does not mean guilty as charged. Remains to be seen.

Here is an article from the "Straight Times" Singapore http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=11542 which is of course totally "un-bias "

and only "slightly" leans towards their old friend Thaksin

Here is an idea - ask the Singapore government to take over and solve the problem - with their army over here - 2 hours max and Bangkok would be clean again

Only problem is that they would call old Thaksin back to continue doing business with him .... and would insist in a law against chewing gum ...

But you see that the Straight Times has said what The Nation would never say It's not what Abhisit wants it's what the Elite (Amataya) behind him wants.

The Straight Times is about as unstraight as they come. They are a lap dog press to the ruling familiy. Of course they would be pro Mr. T and agree with whatever his adgenda is.

How does this improve the situation? So they are JUST GONNA let the red shirts n yellow shirts kill each other?

looks like it...also, they can allow protetsters to switch loyalties and shirt colours in between and the slug it out or they have red v. yellow shirt cock-fights, football gamess, grenadee throwing championships, paintball fighting of multicolored waters, and competition on who can build the fastest weapon of mass destruction to wipe each other out and claim their prizes from george bush or rumsfeld.....

and competition on who can build the fastest weapon of mass destruction to wipe each other out and calim their prizes fron george bush or rumsfeld

Careful my friend you are revealing your colors. Please leave out your snyde remarks about the US politics on this forum. There are many web sites on the Internet that will welcome you. Your remark has absolutely nothing to do with the onging isuue we are discussing.