lazurus

Can anybody take a minute to share the online links (or names) of online news sources for BKK or National Thailand news?

Nation - www.nationmultimedia.com/home/breakingnews/

Bangkok Post - www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews

TNN Thailand ( in Thai ) - www.tnnthailand.com/

Channel 7 ( in Thai, government ) - www.ch7.com

Channel 9 - www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/englishnews.cfm

For consistent political perspective, I might suggest reading The New Light of Myanmar, a slightly more liberal newspaper than the above.

Why? Is Myanmar suddenly the standard for free press? Is Myanmar eager to portray Thailand in a positive and accurate manner? They might consistently print what the government allows them to.

I dont think there is anything in those two media sources that really discuss anything that most Thai people are aware of excepting the unsubstantited rumour stuff you get a lot of on NM. The Economist is better. NM is not much differnt to here really except politer rows, far less opinions and lots of Thai studies 101 students and occasional comments from one of the dudes on that army scematic today. They also like to slag off the Nation for unsubstantiated stories while praising their own group use of exactly the same so not really very smart. Nick's photos are the high point among a load of other blandness. Still point is you will learn more about Thailand by looking, listening and talking to the people here and watching what is going on and using your own brain than you will reading what everyone thinks is so secret but actually isnt. Dont rely on any media sources especially ones that home to your own biases that just stymies intellignent thought, and al;so doubt stories in your favourite media sources as much as in ones you dislike to keep yourself alert and also read media sources you dont agree with. In fact iut is more important to read them than ones that just reinforce your bias

all imho

Humble perhaps, but absolutely correct.

This is a Feudalistic Country with different ranks of people.

Here is a Quote from Mr. Mark Himself:

Mr Abhisit is typical of the elite in his frustration with the red shirts. How, he asks, can these people, drawn chiefly from the lower parts of society, allow a billionaire (of all people) to whip up class divisions? "Thaksin", he says, "should not speak in a way that could create hatred between rich and poor. Society would be fine as long as people could do their jobs…"

Yes, the "Phrai" sure do love their jobs..?? Mr. Mark

Accept your station in life: Thailand's prime minister, an old Etonian admires what he calls Thailand's "sufficiency economy". In essence, the village poor must take their place along with everyone else in a perfect hierarchy topped by the k..g's benevolent patronage.

The political corollary might be dubbed a "sufficiency democracy": rule by a self-appointed aristocracy claiming to protect the monarchy while amassing wealth and privilege.

Ok, no problem instead of being farmers and laborers they can all be telecom billionaires. In a capitalist system everybody should work, but not everybody gets rich. Sorry c'est la vie. To think that elections and a new government will change average working people into millionaires overnight is ridiculous. In any society wealth and privilege go to a small percentage of the population, wish I was in that group but that's life.

Given that black shirts are already owned by the the Nazi's, perhaps they could just admit that all the cool colours are gone and just call themselves the back shorts? Major General Kitty would do well in a P.G Woodhouse book

The Nazis were in brown or?

Blackshirts courtesy Wikipedia: For further edification.........

Blackshirts:The Blackshirts (Italian: camicie nere, CCNN, or squadristi) were Fascist paramilitary groups in Italy during the period immediately following World War I and until the end of World War II. Blackshirts were also known as the National Security Volunteer Militia (Milizia Volontaria per la Sicurezza Nazionale, or MVSN).

Next colour please.........

The pre-war SS wore black uniforms, but changed to grey after the war began. Kattiya compared his minuscule personal political party favourably with the early Nazi Party on his website a few months ago, but I think the reference has been removed. (I can't find it on http://www.sae-dang.com/) Incidentally, Sae Daeng is represented on the website and in Wikipedia as having a doctorate.

Yeah, a doctorate in kicking a$$ and taking names! Then denying that said a$$es were kicked by him, and denying knowledge of any names.

A red shirt leader issuing a denial, wow that is news, we haven't seen that before. If the government issued a statement claiming Katthiya was a Major General he'd deny that too.

Thailand is a young democracy , a very young one and what happens today will probably happen again for quite some time.

Most Thais, the yellow, red or multi-colored ones still do not really understand what democracy is.

Most are manipulated by the media and their so-called leaders who only have their own interest in mind.

But as some said, the genie is out of the bottle and even if it will take time, "real" democracy will eventually come to Thailand.

Democracy means either your party is in charge or you protest and whine about double standards.

When will Abhisit step down and leave the country? Abhisit has lost already and the Reds haven't even sent in their troops! Doesn't Abhisit get the message? The Reds are giving him and his government time to stop unnecessary bloodshed. From my source, the Reds have enough to hold out for months more, and they have the means to fight and win - not only in Bangkok. Why do you think the Yellows aren't protesting anymore? I even know wealthy Bangkokians who are leaving the country. They know it's the end.

Well, you certainly know a lot of people in your little make believe world! Someone who knows the reds are armed enough to take on the Thai army in Bangkok and throughout Thailand AND wealthy Bangkokians who are leaving the country. How come no one else has picked up on this- I mean it would be a big story for CNN / BBC. Anyway, we're all really impressed with your imagination.

I know some wealthy people who left. All of Thaksin's family, right before the protests. Well we wouldn't want them standing in the sun all day with the phrai would we?

It has come to me, that besides all the other problems of corruption, lack of a decent education, nepotism & poverty, cultural feudalism, etc... etc... etc...

There really is NO decent political alternative to chose.... ALL major political parties have the same problems... tainted with the perception, if not fact, of corruption and vote-buying, all controlled (or owned) by the unseen forces of HI-SO (or just Very Rich) Elites.... None of them truly representative of the downtrodden or the middle classes... None of them truly concerned about any kind of real societal and fundamental structural Change.

Lip-service and misinformation is pervasive... False Promises flow like silk over a gorge of deceit and inaction.

Nothing will ever change unless a REAL Leader and a REAL Political movement finally surfaces.

Where is the Thai 'Che Guevara'? The 'Abraham Lincoln', the 'Elliott Ness', the 'Aung San Suu Kyi'.... Where are the ones that can bring the Changes that are needed? The truth and trust that are missing,... the unity of purpose and vision?

Where is the Hope?

Talk about a crime of mixed metaphors, to use Lincoln with Che. A great man with a communist butcher of humanity. Ness, irrelevant to leaders in politics. Sir, You have gone off the reservation on this one.

As to Thailand, the real issue is justice fort the rice farmers and the no haves. Thaskin, with all his faults and personal grabs, is loved in Isaan because of the 30 baht health care and similar programs.

His image is everywhere in every village, posed with local kamans.

CS

But we keep hearing from the Red supporters here that its not about Thaksin- maybe they didn't get the word up there yet.

BTW, "Che" a communist butcher of humanity...hmmm...there is (was) a staunch Red supporter around here somewhere with that moniker

You sound like you are surprised that all politicians are essentially the same. Are you really shocked that they don't really work for the people? The 30 baht scheme, I love how Thaksin called his programs schemes, gave mediocre health care for a cheap price while the actual price was paid by other taxpayers. In mature democracies people know that you can't trust politicians and they do more to serve themselves than the people. That's what governments do. Democracy simply means you can periodically get new criminals to replace the old ones.

The color red has too much history, not sure why they picked it. Many of the protesters come from Isan, where there is a portion of the population who are of Khmer descent. I don't know why they would pick a color already associated with the Khmer Rouge. When you think of China or Russia, you think red. Anyone from America would instantly associate reds with communists. It was a bad public relations choice from the beginning. Sure Man U and the Detroit Red wings aren't communists, but this is a political movement and not a cheer squad, despite the clappers.

I accept that - and said as much earlier - but they are obviously not communists - to suggest otherwise is absurd. The Police wear brown - are they fascist? (maybe you shouldn't answer that - but you get my point). Let's not get to colour prejudiced and stretch the connection beyond a joke. The Army wear green - are they environmentalists? common guys the connection is timid and tenuous at best - I don't go calling the yellows fascists.

But it's not that simple. Some of the red leaders Weng for example, was a member of the former Communist Party of Thailand. So you could say that at least one of the top reds used to be a communist. I don't know how much influence he has had over their policies.

As for Facism:

Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.^[19] They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.^[20]

One could argue that the reds have attempted to suppress opposition to their protests and have used violence to create spirit among their crowds.

Basically fascist, communist, and nazi are names people throw around to discredit their opponents. They have such a negative connotation to them that without any actual understanding of the terms people will see them as bad. It is a poor substitute for a rational argument. If you think the reds or yellows are wrong, prove it intelligently by discussing their policies or actions, name calling gets us nowhere.

Minister urges reds to let kids attend school, Headline from Nation

Seems like good advice all round.

The color red has too much history, not sure why they picked it. Many of the protesters come from Isan, where there is a portion of the population who are of Khmer descent. I don't know why they would pick a color already associated with the Khmer Rouge. When you think of China or Russia, you think red. Anyone from America would instantly associate reds with communists. It was a bad public relations choice from the beginning. Sure Man U and the Detroit Red wings aren't communists, but this is a political movement and not a cheer squad, despite the clappers.

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

The more Thaksin denies being dead ... the more convinced I am he is dead

Are you implying that there is a Fake Thaksin?

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

My vote is that he has been frozen in Carbonite like Han Solo.

BBC's Thai correspondant has just reported, (and I hope I heard right). That the government say they have evidence of a deeper plot, to overthrow the government and undermune the monarchy.

The Suthep propaganda this morning..... Red Shirt Leaders have already sued him for developing fake informations (Webfact)

The debate is going lower and lower....soon we will have all the gossips of massage parlours and brothels.....

Rule of thumb, when the reds start calling something fake you know its the real deal.

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Martial Law is like a temporary coup. The military has complete control of nearly every aspect of the state. And yes, curfews can be imposed at any time (even daytime). The streets can be cleared of all non-combatants.

Whatever the military says it is. Rule by military.

So Thailand will become Burma?

What about internet. Will the military cut it?

What about shopping. Will the military allow it?

No it does not turn Thailand into Burma. But the way things are going you might want to ask those same questions of the reds. Someone attempted to block the TV signal used to broadcast the PM's Sunday address. Someone tried to disrupt the electricity flow to Bangkok using a series of bombs. So ask yourself how long before the reds cut your internet by either interfering with the satellite companies or disrupting the power systems. Concerned about shopping? The reds have set up roadblocks and searched ordinary citizens. They have disrupted the skytrain. They seem to be able to disrupt the movements of ordinary citizens. If this gets worse the reds might not allow you to go shopping, or may disrupt the flow of goods you wish to buy. They certainly aren't letting you shop at Central world. Martial law is a tool that might allow you to go back to doing the normal things you want to do. Ask yourself is rule by military better than rule by terrorists.

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Martial Law is like a temporary coup. The military has complete control of nearly every aspect of the state. And yes, curfews can be imposed at any time (even daytime). The streets can be cleared of all non-combatants.

It isn't really a coup. It puts the military in charge of security and allows them greater power to restore order. It doesn't necessarily remove the PM from his position. It allows for the suspension of normal civil rights which makes it easier to arrest and detain lawbreakers. It does allow the military to enforce a curfew to keep civilians off the streets if necessary. It has been used in certain situations in the USA and Canada as well as European countries in times of national emergency.

500 baht per day

100 baht for daily change of t shirt

200 baht for Thai massage, sleeping on the streets makes me stiff

150 baht for food and drinks

50 baht savings for when I have to go back to reality

Since the reds can't seem to get over it, if they leave Rajaprsong I'm sure the yellows will agree to leave the Airport. I'm sure that in 2 years time we will see that any court cases against the current protest leaders will be dragging on and on with no end in sight. Once people put down their bamboo spears and go home there will be an election. ThaiDemocracy, now everyone can vote.

As for the cops and soldiers around Kon Kaen who are wilting like pansies in a drought: Firm recriminations are in order - though who will enforce discipline? ....if so many cops/soldiers are wimping out?

Nice to see you are calling for firm recriminations, and not the death penalty for a change

brahmburgars never advocated the death penalty or killing reds to close down the rally.

That was red interpretations to discredit his firm stance on law and order reinstitution.

The death penalty or life without parole is quite appropriate for any who kill from stealth

while using others as shields or a distraction... Any group doing this is liable.

Sure, but he is all too quick to give the death penalty to those who attacked and killed the soldiers but is very quiet about those who murdered the red protesters. Can you smell the hypocrisy ?

It might just be the same people, so what hypocrisy? Soldiers and police following orders are usually treated different than criminals rioting in the streets anyway. The police are obligated to try and enforce the law. The protesters have a choice, and they used it to fight with the army instead of peacefully dispersing.

If the PM offered to have elections in 90 days under the following 3 conditions what would the reds say?

1. Reds return home within 48 hours and cease from blocking any public road from now until the election.

2. PTP and Democrats agree to participate in election where candidates are not interfered with and votes are not paid for.

3. General Anupong retires immediately and a replacement is named within the next month.

The People Against Democracy yellow shirts are calling for Martian Law. Does Martian law allow poor peasants to vote or would voting be reserved for the rich, powerful and famous? Would the Yellow People Against Democracy go back to Mars if they were given every single last satang of money from working and poor Thai people? If so, I'm read to make a contribution

Aw how cute, he thinks he's clever. But isn't Mars the Red planet?

When the yellows occupied the airport I believe it was the Red supported PPP who was in power. If they weren't dispersed at that time I suggest you contact the PTP and express your disapproval of how they handled the situation. All the discussion of so called double standards are pointless now. Abhisit was not the PM and was not responsible for the handling of the airport seizure. He is in power now and responsible for how the current mess is handled. Whining about the past will not change the fact that we are in a very serious situation now. The reds have the power to end the protests peacefully.

No more reds have to die, no one does. But law and order has to be restored. An election where voters have to go through red roadblocks to vote would be a farce and have no legitimacy. Reds need to go home and respect the law, that is the only peaceful solution, and the only way new elections can be held. Thailand already has a police force, it is their job to patrol the highways, not the reds. The reds have made their point further protests will only infuriate the rest of the population and alienate any Thais who are committed to either side. Give Thai people peace, only then can you realistically expect to have elections. If the reds really want to use democracy to express themselves they have to go home.

It's nice that the PM wants to host a cabinet meeting this morning. However the government is on the verge of becoming completely worthless. The army and police are unwilling to enforce existing laws for the protection of the general population. They stand idly by while acts of terrorism, sabotage, violence and intimidation go unchecked. Today we see that we are close to a breakdown in public transportation. Law and order are gone, next is the freedom of law abiding citizens to move about their communities. They are unable to go to their places of business, their schools and hospitals. The suspension of the skytrain and mobs of protesters setting up roadblocks on public highways has taken away the rights of the people of Thailand. If we continue down this road we will see armed militias enforcing their own form of law and order. If the highways are taken from the ordinary people of Thailand you will see further disruptions in travel and commerce. On Sunday an attempt was made to interfere with the broadcast of the PM's message. This could be the beginning of an attempt to severe the lines of communication as well.

With the national infrastructure impaired, communications compromised, and the police abandoning the people where will the country be? With the freedoms of the people taken away there can be no democracy either. Freedom of movement, freedom of the press and freedom of expression without fear of violence and intimidation are necessary for true democracy to exist. When the people lose their freedoms and are oppressed by gangs of thugs the government has failed. It has no power, and no authority and elections are meaningless when the government does not have law and order.

Even if the reds mobilize 100,000 people and the yellows do the same, the true majority of the Thai population want to live in peace and security. They want their children to go to school, they want hospitals and essential services to operate normally. They want to get on trains without the threat of sabotage. They want to travel to work without grenades falling around them. Once a country descends into the madness of anarchy and civil war it can take years or decades to recover. Once warlords and militias take over a country the rest of the people will suffer for generations.

Who has the courage to bring Thailand back from the brink? Will it be the PM? He can restore law and order now and the number of deaths may be high, but much lower than a civil war. Will it be the red leaders? They can end the protests and prepare for elections in six or nine months and make change in a peaceful way. Will it be the yellows? If they emerge with a mob even bigger than the reds they can disperse the reds on their own, but that will not lead to peace.

The majority of Thai people, real Thai people, want peace. They want their country back.

As usual the red leaders are denying that they ordered the sabotage of the skytrain. Who would have guessed, after all they deny everything their group does. If you really don't have any control over what happens at your protest site then maybe it's time to end it. Or maybe the government should be negotiating with the group that did order the sabotage, if they are the ones who are really in control.

The escalating disruptions caused by the used to be red protesters cannot be allowed to continue. Yesterday they were setting up their own roadblocks and pretending that they could appoint themselves the police. Today they have forced the skytrain to close down affecting thousands of commuters. Thai citizens should not allow this bullying to continue. The police have a duty to maintain law and order and protect the safety of its people. Should they wait until the formerly reds manage to derail a train that is full of people before they take action? Allowing the protests to continue so that they can further provoke the population of Bangkok is a recipe for disaster.