ThailandNoob

My friend runs a business in Koh Chang and from what he tells me this figure would be about right. I'm also hearing similar things from people in the tourist industry in Bangkok.

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It wouldn't surprise me if an election is not held for three or four years. This was well planned out in advance.

Definitely.

The Reds will not sit quietly for that long.

When they do take to the streets, what can Prayuth do? Start shooting?

The outcome of the situation is inevitable, the weight of human history is clearly on one side here.

Slowly, slowly...

He has already shown himself willing to start shooting (remember 2010?). Yes the weight of history is on one side, but in the medium term I fear civil war.

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I remember 2010, and especially that Prayut wasn't the army head at that time.

I also remember that while Prayuth was not army head, he was in charge of the crackdown.

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It wouldn't surprise me if an election is not held for three or four years. This was well planned out in advance.

Definitely.

The Reds will not sit quietly for that long.

When they do take to the streets, what can Prayuth do? Start shooting?

The outcome of the situation is inevitable, the weight of human history is clearly on one side here.

Slowly, slowly...

He has already shown himself willing to start shooting (remember 2010?). Yes the weight of history is on one side, but in the medium term I fear civil war.

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Sounds like he is ruling through fear and intimidation. Do not dare to critisise the supreme leader.

Well he never would have come to power in the first place if people hadn't been scared and intimidated by the guns his soldiers were carrying.

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He also vowed that he was not launching a coup when he imposed martial law.

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[starting to raise his voice.] Do you have the knowledge to administer the country like me? You just write, think, and speak, that's all. And what do I do? I think, write, give orders, follow up on the work and write the plans. Anyone who can write [the plan as I do] please come and stand here.

Those who were democratically elected and deposed at gunpoint probably still think that they can run the country. The thing is that if they said so, they would disappear into incommunicado military detention.

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The ageneral is a good and respectful man.

The reporter failed to show respect for the man and the position of PM.

Why should he show respect for someone who seized control of the country at gunpoint?

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"the administration demands that all underground anti-government movements stop, as the government is functioning in accordance with the law."

The Junta really needs to find another rationale for demanding to ceasation of underground political activities. National security is always a sure fall back for juntas the world over.

To cite the "rule of law" as a reason for compliance after having overthrown the Yingluck administration in violation of the rule of law as set forth in the 2007 Constitution, then granting itself absolute power and amensty for its illegal act, the Junta may not garner much sympathy from the Thai public. And to the ASEAN Communities who are not operating under martial law nor dictatorship rule, the Prayuth regime's constant complaints about the survivability of free speech may be seen as a government that is not too compatible as a major player in ASEAN Communities.

I agree that it is a bit rich for the junta to cite the rule of law, given that they came to power via a military coup.

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Stop inquiring about the lifting of martial law, academic discussions are ok as long as they don't involve politics so what's left.

Let's discuss the weather if that's permissible. Dictatorship what dictatorship ?

First of all political discussions in the matter of if we should buy a new street or give money for farmer isn't banned.

Banned is PDRC, Thaksin, Red...Democracy propaganda.

And having no political discussion for a year is better than civil war with the reds shooting demonstrators.....Let the protester and the reds go home for a year is surely a good idea.

PDRC propaganda is banned? The junta themselves have been trotting out remarkably similar things to Suthep.

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The last time Prayuth wanted "talks with those who thought differently", they were presented with an ultimatum while he secretly surrounded the building with soldiers. When they refused, the soldiers burst in and dragged them away to military camps for "attitude adjustment" in incommunicado detention.

I wonder if anyone is going to trust him this time around.

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but that was overthrowing a dictatorship, not creating one, now wasn't it?

although I think the chances of that happening in the current situation are slim, exactly that possibility was reported as the reason the 'PM' was so careful about his successor and the other changes made before he 'retired' from his military job.

While that still might be possible, I do not think it is likely at this time.

But that wasn't the question, was it?

Perhaps the lesson to be learned it to learn to evaluate things on their own merits rather than in what pieces and fragments of history can be better used to better fit in our opinions.

actually that was the question.

You are right, it wasn't the question, it wasn't even a question, it was a statement, and that statement is not true.

You said:

"... the fact that NO military dictatorship in the WORLD has created a more democratic society after a coup."

I said:

"Thailand moved from absolute monarchy to a democratic system via a military coup."

You were wrong, get over it.

If you want to be pedantic, then let's make a more precise statement that illustrates the obvious point he was trying to make (sorry tbthailand if I am putting words in your mouth).

How about "no military overthrow of an elected government has created a more democratic society than before the coup"?

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"NLA has an obligation to answer a key basic question of legitimacy before proceeding with the impeachment of politicians of the previous regime"

The NLA certainly needs to answer the question in terms of legitimacy as to how it can ignore the illegality (as Gen. Prayuth admits) of the military coup, the coup illegal suspension of the 2007 Constitution, the coup's self-created amensty for its own illegal acts, and creation of NCPO's absolute power over the government. The NLA should also answer to its own legitimacy to subject any former government politician to impeachment having itself become an impeachable act under the 2007 Constitution through its creation by the coup leaders and staffed with members through direct NCPO nomination and appointment, including active military subordinates under the Junta's chain of Command.

Until the NLA can judge itself as legitimate and free of conflict of interest, it has no right to judge others.

The Constitutional Court might have the obligation, not the NLA. So someone should ask them, like the Pheu Thai party may or may not have asked the C.C. already about impeachment as they said they would.

As for legitimacy, you may jump up, you may jump down, but at the moment the NLA, and the PM and his cabinet form the legal government of Thailand. Even the UN has accepted the MoFA as representing the government of Thailand, unconditionally.

"Even the UN" 555

The UN has given similar recognition to such wonderful regimes as the Khmer Rouge (and Idi Amin's dictatorship too, I seem to recall). So I think that bar is set pretty low.

A better way to gauge international attitudes towards the junta would be to look at my home country, which I am proud to say has blocked them from setting foot in the country.

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Except that he has already written laws preventing himself from being criticised for anything to do with the coup.

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"Anyway, you seem like an ivory tower airchair 'democracy' warrior who doesn't know any common or poor Thai. Only concerned with 'amart', faulty 'democracy' and zigzagging along. From afar, safely away from that dangerous place called Thailand."

Wrong, but funny. Having nothing to post doesn't keep you from posting.

Democracy does seem to have its drawbacks, now doesn't it

Is that why you oppose it?

Why do you suggest I oppose democracy ? It would seem you do, as you seem to dislike me posting

If you believe that "the coup was necessary", then that means you support it. Military coups are incompatible with democracy, so therefore you oppose democracy.

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I wonder what happens to poll results that show the opposite, and I wonder whether these results are 'adjusted for clarity'?

With a censored media, we'll never know the truth, I guess.

With polls in Thailand I doubt we ever knew the truth independent of who was in government.

Mind you, you being Thai you probably didn't notice.

One type of poll tells "the truth", and that is elections judged free and fair by international observers.

since in Thailand we have had those 'interesting' election promises which put a real financial burder on the current government and since the vote doesn't show the patronage system corrupting the vote, such elections cannot be deemed democratic.

They also only tell the truth as far as listeners are able to hear.

Every democracy has politicians that make expensive election promises. And your comment about the "patronage system corrupting the vote" is pure hot air. During the 2011 election period I was in in a Red Shirt village in Northern Thailand. I speak fluent Thai. I saw absolutely nothing untoward.

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I wonder what happens to poll results that show the opposite, and I wonder whether these results are 'adjusted for clarity'?

With a censored media, we'll never know the truth, I guess.

With polls in Thailand I doubt we ever knew the truth independent of who was in government.

Mind you, you being Thai you probably didn't notice.

One type of poll tells "the truth", and that is elections judged free and fair by international observers.

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I listed the first half dozen or so violent acts by the PDRC that came to mind. These alone more than qualify the PDRC as "armed thugs rampaging through Bangkok". In particular, how they used violence to stop the election proves that they are the lowest form of life on Earth.

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I still don't get how a few violent acts justifies the killing of innocent bystanders who happened to be nearby to a protest camp where none of the violence took place, and most likely none of the violent protesters were near.

Yet, you have an issue with the deaths of protesters that were with and around a heavily armed militia.

No bias there!

This discussion is going around in circles. I said before that I have infinitely more sympathy for people killed in protests trying to get elections, than for people killed in protests trying to stop elections.

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Without wanting to be negative - The simple fact that these antibodies have yet to be tested on either animals or humans means that this announcement has very little substance. Any peer reviewed journal wouldn't touch this with a barge pole in the context of 'a therapy for Ebola' as that has not been proven in the slightest in humans.

HIV research has identified a number of broadly neutralizing antibodies, produced naturally by humans which are highly effective against the HIV virus in a lab under controlled conditions, but mimicking that response in the human body to kill HIV and purge it from an infected person is still the subject of intensive research with an estimated 5 - 10 years expected before it becomes a viable treatment or enters human trials.

But this type of announcement raises the profile of science in Thailand and that in itself is a fantastic but I just hope that they haven't jumped the gun. Like that Japanese group did recently with their stem cell cloning technique which was shot down in flames once it was peer reviewed. And led to lot's of apologetic kowtowing on the Japanese side.

I minored in biochemistry, and I totally second everything you wrote here. Except that I'd like to make a few more things clear. In general, out of all of the treatments that look promising when tested on a container of cells in the lab (in vitro as it is known), only a small percentage live up to that promise in animals testing. Out of those, only a small proportion live up to their promise in human testing. So the odds of this working, while non-zero, are low.

To me this is quite scary.

In order to develop an antibody - or even do research into doing so - surely they would need the active Virus?

What half-wit would deliberately import such a deadly disease?

I would also be very concerned about the security / quarantine facilities at Sirirat.

Patrick

reported in the International Business Times UK eddition

"Doctors at the hospital told the Indian news website NDTV that researchers did not import the Ebola virus into Thailand to develop the treatment, but instead used less-virulent viruses that produce similar haemorrhagic fevers."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ebola-outbreak-thailands-siriraj-hospital-creates-antibody-treatment-deadly-virus-1467727

This makes me even less optimistic. Even treatments that might work on one strain of Ebola virus are unlikely to work on another. If they designed it to work on a related virus such as Marburg, then even if it works on that (and see what I wrote above), then it is unlikely to work on Ebola.

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You live in a fantasy land to justify and condone the murder of real people, you have no moral standing.

What part of my argument is fantasy? A bit of Googling will find plenty of news stories covering each of the examples that I listed.

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There was no armed thugs rampaging through Bangkok, except the ones murdering anti-PTP protestors.

There were acts of violence committed by the PDRC, but not in the ridiculous scale you want to believe to dress up as noble righteousness the pleasure you derive from the deaths of people you know nothing about.

I listed the first half dozen or so violent acts by the PDRC that came to mind. These alone more than qualify the PDRC as "armed thugs rampaging through Bangkok". In particular, how they used violence to stop the election proves that they are the lowest form of life on Earth.

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I have never been to Rayong, but I know that the Ratchaprasong Big C was right next to Suthep and his mob, who had by that time committed numerous acts of violence.

I would have much rather than the army had done their job and cleaned those pigs out. But they did not, blatantly proving which side they were on, neglecting their duties and letting the city collapse into anarchy (I think I know why, but this post would be deleted if I wrote it here).

You speak about the Red Shirt protests, but they were about trying to get an election, as opposed to trying to stop one. Forgive me if I am biased in favour of democracy.

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OMG!! You've never been near one of these (or the red shirt) protest sites in your life have you? You really have no idea!!

How does even being near a protest site make it OK for someone to throw grenades and kill innocent bystanders ... not even protesters, and not even anywhere near where any of the "numerous acts of violence" occurred.

It wasn't the army's job to clean out the protesters until they were asked by the government to do it. Both protests were about trying to force a legitimate government to step down. One of the protests had an armed militia backing them up.

Big C Ratchaprasong was right next to where the PDRC (who had a rich history of violence) were camped out. Do you seriously believe that they didn't have "an armed militia" backing them up?

And do you seriously believe that the army would have cleaned out the protests even if they had been ordered to?

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The was no private army rampaging through Bangkok, you just want to whitewash your blood lust by lying to yourself.

Suthep's thugs were armed with military weapons, seizing territory, setting up checkpoints, kidnapping people and holding them in their territory, torturing people, shooting people who moved traffic cones, bashing foreign journalists, using violence to stop elections.

These are just the first things that came to mind, but more than enough to qualify them as a private army.

You live in a fantasy land to justify and condone the murder of real people, you have no moral standing.

What part of my argument is fantasy? A bit of Googling will find plenty of news stories covering each of the examples that I listed.

You simply do a cut and paste of words to make a sentence. Following you ignore the reasons for some of the actions.

BTW in some Westerns Countries condoning violence as in "I hate them" can and is being used against posters (on facebook a.o.).

PS I do not condone the violent actions by some of the PDRC / PCAD guards, but with all the violence they themselves were subjected to I'm not really surprised it happened. Especially with Thailand being such a violent society at times.

I am very well aware of "the reasons for their actions". With their feudalistic mindset, they consider people from the North and NE to be subhuman, and that those areas are therefore not worthy of government spending.

The problem is that those areas contain the majority of people in the country, and they can therefore do abominable things such as "selling" their votes in exchange for such unreasonable things as the government letting more than 10% of taxpayer's money go outside Bangkok.

The North and the NE are too stupid to realise that government revenue is the god-given right of the "khon dee" in Bangkok, and are therefore too stupid to vote. Elections must therefore be prevented at all costs, even if it means stirring up violence so that your army buddies have an excuse to step in and launch a coup.

That is the reasoning behind the PDRC's violence.

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The was no private army rampaging through Bangkok, you just want to whitewash your blood lust by lying to yourself.

Suthep's thugs were armed with military weapons, seizing territory, setting up checkpoints, kidnapping people and holding them in their territory, torturing people, shooting people who moved traffic cones, bashing foreign journalists, using violence to stop elections.

These are just the first things that came to mind, but more than enough to qualify them as a private army.

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You live in a fantasy land to justify and condone the murder of real people, you have no moral standing.

What part of my argument is fantasy? A bit of Googling will find plenty of news stories covering each of the examples that I listed.

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I feel deep hatred for anyone who considers my sister's family to be subhuman just for coming from north of Bangkok.

And I feel zero sympathy for people who use violence to prevent them from electing a government that actually does something for them, and justify this on the grounds that they are "too stupid to vote".

I feel saddened with people who hate so easily that they lose the broader picture. To let your emotions get the better of you and start to name those you oppose "scum", justifying attacks by gunfire and grenades. It makes you just a 'bad' as those you oppose.

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The was no private army rampaging through Bangkok, you just want to whitewash your blood lust by lying to yourself.

Suthep's thugs were armed with military weapons, seizing territory, setting up checkpoints, kidnapping people and holding them in their territory, torturing people, shooting people who moved traffic cones, bashing foreign journalists, using violence to stop elections.

These are just the first things that came to mind, but more than enough to qualify them as a private army.

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I already said that I feel bad for the innocent bystanders that got killed. But I can't help asking what possessed them to go (with their families!) near a private army rampaging across the city.

And I think there are more than enough reasons to call Suthep and co. "scum".

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Like I said, you should really read up on how they got killed.

Some were killed in Rayong. They were sitting near their parents food stall near (not at) a rally.

Some were killed in Ratchaprasong. They got killed while they were in a tuktuk waiting for their parents who had gone shopping at Big C.

They weren't near anyone that was "rampaging". They weren't even protesting. They weren't killed by security forces doing their job. They were killed by mercenaries throwing grenades and shooting military weapons.

Now you compare that to most of the people killed during the red shirt protests. Many of them were in amongst armed men that were shooting at the army. I suppose you can't help asking what possessed them to go near a private army rampaging across the city. Do you think they are scum??

I have never been to Rayong, but I know that the Ratchaprasong Big C was right next to Suthep and his mob, who had by that time committed numerous acts of violence.

I would have much rather than the army had done their job and cleaned those pigs out. But they did not, blatantly proving which side they were on, neglecting their duties and letting the city collapse into anarchy (I think I know why, but this post would be deleted if I wrote it here).

You speak about the Red Shirt protests, but they were about trying to get an election, as opposed to trying to stop one. Forgive me if I am biased in favour of democracy.

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