ThailandNoob

Like it or not facts are changes are being made Some cages being rattled. Some wrongs being righted And I don't think one person was killed doing it. Unlike it was before children were killed what for? Democracy or greed you tell me. You have to remember this is Thailand THAI'S NEED TO BE DRAGGED INTO THE 21ST CENTURY.

I don't really agree that they have to be dragged into the 21st century. I how ever agree that they have to have a government who will work to make the streets safe not one who will support a group of thugs to make them unsafe.

For once I totally agree with your post. I want the streets to be safe for people to do things like vote at polling stations, eat sandwiches or throw the Hunger Games salute.

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Despite thoroughly enjoying happy hour every Friday night with P Prayuth for the past few months and agreeing with him on many points I also find myself questioning the wisdom of effectively suspending the right of 60+ million people to think and discourse freely and to determine their own destiny. However my wife finds him and his candidness a breath of fresh air and I admit I too enjoy that we are both now a little more equal, in that we are both unable to vote. So party on power brokers enjoy your moments of glory...as if you won't, cos down here the song remains the same. I came for the beach I stayed for the smiles.

Yes the people should be able to choose their own destiny. The problem, lay's in the fact that they can not find the politicians who will listen to what they want.

Take Thailand for example. They elected a party to get certain things that were promised them. They got instead a leader who is living in self imposed exile to avoid a jail sentence he earned. The promises when brought about were so undermined with corruption that they would not work. Did the people get what they wanted no.

It is defiantly not a democratic leadership- they have now but they are getting what they want.

So which is better an unelected government given you what you want or an elected government not delivering on what you wanted?

Before the PTP red shirt supporters jump in with how come this and how come that. I will answer you right now because they have not had enough time to correct all the corruption the previous administration gave them and change or improve laws that are in existence that allowed the previous administration to get away with their actions as long as they did.

If the elected government hadn't been giving people what they want, then why were they the ones pushing so hard for another election. If your theory had been true, then the people would have been wanting to vote them out, and the logical thing for Pheu Thai to do would have been to try to delay the election as much as possible. Instead I saw them do the opposite.

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“The National Council for Peace and Order is unlikely to lift the martial law in the near future as groups campaigning against the junta have been detected both in Thailand and abroad.” - The Nation 2014-09-05

“If anti-coup activists escalate their activities, the regional armies will have to step up measures to contain the situation,”

“… all measures to contain anti-coup groups must be in line with Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha's policy to minimise unnecessary conflict for the NCPO …”

Meanwhile the Junta plans to put forth its candidacy for membership in the United Nations Human Rights Council next year. If the Junta continues its vigorous track record for suppression of freedom of speech under martial law, no matter how noble such actions might be, leaders of other nations may not find it an enduring quality in candidates for HRC. The Junta should consider a more restrained and civil approach to countering criticisms without the support of martial law or give up the idea that it is some kind of bastion for democracy.

Name me one country that has freedom of speech. They all have a limit on what is allowed to be printed. Some more than others. You might have missed it but you had the freedom to print your condemnation of them.

I rest my case.

The question was name me one country that has freedom of speech. Not comparisons between them. thought I would mention that before you tried to avoid the question.

Every country has some limits on freedom of speech--you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and stuff like that. I can name many countries where people are free to criticize their government, but Thailand isn't one of them.

I have a strong idea you are wrong. Here criticism is accepted if it is CONSTRUCTIVE there is no problem and the PM is listening to all walks of life.

This propaganda you talk about everything is gagged is ridiculous. IF on the other hand anyone wants to try to halt the progress made with OTT rumours or disruptive actions they will come up against a backhander.

This NON freedom of speech talk is a TVF apologist trend to disrupt as much as possible, therefore strong unnecessary comments are deleted.

There is no reason for anyone to slag off the PM at this stage as the work he is doing is thorough and good.

Here are the reasons TVF apologists disrupt. PTP/Shins are not in power----non elected government----total control by the military--- WHY ??

Because a lousy non democratic government shot it'self in the foot and caused chaos --through the amnesty bill to clear Thaksin---that's it in a nutshell.

Gangs of reds will creep into anywhere where they can still disrupt, seemingly against anything that is anti-Thaksin. They must be on some sort of payroll as a last ditch effort to dislodge. Stupid as they will never get their support back because of the over strong allegiance to Thaksin.

What the hell are you talking about? Look at the things the junta has suppressed and the comments people have been arrested for making. The junta has even banned Tropico 5 for God's sake.

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Please explain why you think the army has some kind of moral right to be able to suspend democracy for any period of time at all.

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Because it wasn't working? Because political violence was escalating? Because those in power were taking corruption to unprecedented levels? Because they were planning on borrowing huge sums so their corruption could continue?

This reminds me of Life of Brian - "Yeah, but what else have the Romans done for us?"

If Pheu Thai had been so bad, then it should have been a cakewalk to vote them out, right? Instead look at which side was pushing for an election, and which side was using violence to stop it, while pushing for a coup.

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I am sure the rules of engagement are such that if any particular crowd are plotting an overthrow or to cause mayhem from Japanese soil, there are laws in place that these people can do time for a long time , if the Thai government has solid proof that anarchists are plotting against Thailand they must bring this up with their Japanese counterparts, not run to the Thai press.

Depends on how much sympathy the Japanese government has for an unelected military regime. People "plotted" against the Burmese junta for decades from all over the world without the generals getting much help.

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I guess these bunch of losers didn't get the memo from their boss from Dubai! Stop making trouble or they'll freeze my money!

I guess that "bunch" of losers are exercising their democratic right to criticise what they regard as a self appointed "government" in a country where they are still able to demonstrate that right.

fab4.... hold it right there... people of Thailand do not have any democratic rights at this period of time... they sold those rights for 500 bahts along with their votes for the Shinewatras... By voting in the most corrupt government hopefully Thailand will ever have. The military took over bloodlessly to end the crisis brought on by that same corrupt government which almost ripped this country apart. And thank God this military took over to stop what would have been civil war and many deaths... or should I say many more deaths as the Red Shirts had already started notching up their score.. Viva el General... and a pox on Red Shirt appologists... Shame on you...!

You hold it right there. What people "sold" their votes for was for some of their tax money to actually get spent on the provinces, instead of just vanishing down to Bangkok.

You speak of the threat of civil war, but how what made people think of launching one in the first place? People threatening to overthrow the democratically elected government and replace it with a dictatorship, that is what.

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I guess these bunch of losers didn't get the memo from their boss from Dubai! Stop making trouble or they'll freeze my money!

I guess that "bunch" of losers are exercising their democratic right to criticise what they regard as a self appointed "government" in a country where they are still able to demonstrate that right.

They can criticise all they want amongst themselves nobody else wants to hear it and Thailand is better off for it too

The only people disgruntled at the moment are those that that were living outside the law and it's being corrected slowly but surely, the red mafias grip on Thailand is no more and good ridence

"no-one wants to hear it" I think that the government of my home country shares a similar point of view, given that they have blocked the junta leaders from visiting.

Looking closer to home, if so many people love the coup, then why doesn't Prayuth stand for election and get international legitimacy for his leadership?

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you very obviously have little understanding of what is going on here right now, I would put money on it that when the time comes (if he is interested) the General could well win any future election by a landslide majority - he certainly gets a huge thumbs up from me so far - yes he will piss a few people off that have been milking the system but they know who they are and have little to complain about, it's time Thailand evolved from the stagnant status of 3rd world and it looks like he is da man

After the 2006 coup the Reds won the next election. I'll wager that they'll do it by an even larger majority this time, since this coup has been more repressive.

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For a while this forum was nice but now the red propaganda machine is turning it sour again

Ah yes, because one must be a Red to oppose fascism.

More toothless name-calling from the apologists.

Red are Fascist because they want to seize power :

by force and threatening.

by killing children and innocents people,

by burning city and destroy private property..

by using blindness of poor people................

by using human shield......

by using pseudo black magic.........

Reds are the devil, and Thailand need to clean it these rubbishes....

Pro-red parties have only ever seized power by elections. In the past 2 decades, every time a pro-yellow party has seized power, it has been by unelected means. And I think that a military coup is a textbook example of "seizing power by force".

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As I have said before the only people who defend them are criminals, redshirts, paid posters or trolls.

555 any supporter of the Shins is by definition a red shirt. So I don't know what you seek to achieve with this circular definition.

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Thats the problem with politica here, when you dont get your own way, kick up a fuss, start rallying and it escalates from there. IMHO the coup happened because no one was willing to compromise for the sake of the country. The Junta have been in power for about 4 months, they say there will be elections in just over a years time, thats not long in politics, the Reds should give them that time, that another problem here, cant wait must have it now and now is never soon enough, part of the culture, its the way Thais live and buy / get into debt etc. This circle needs to be broken or history will go on repeating itself and Thailand never remembers ( they dont teach history).

I hope that it is false alarm and the Junta can fulfill what they said they would do, change the political landscape, rules/constitution etc and in a years time we will maybe, just maybe, see a new Thailand emerging, I am optimistic, although there are plenty here who are not.

Please explain why you think the army has some kind of moral right to be able to suspend democracy for any period of time at all.

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I guess these bunch of losers didn't get the memo from their boss from Dubai! Stop making trouble or they'll freeze my money!

I guess that "bunch" of losers are exercising their democratic right to criticise what they regard as a self appointed "government" in a country where they are still able to demonstrate that right.

They can criticise all they want amongst themselves nobody else wants to hear it and Thailand is better off for it too

The only people disgruntled at the moment are those that that were living outside the law and it's being corrected slowly but surely, the red mafias grip on Thailand is no more and good ridence

"no-one wants to hear it" I think that the government of my home country shares a similar point of view, given that they have blocked the junta leaders from visiting.

Looking closer to home, if so many people love the coup, then why doesn't Prayuth stand for election and get international legitimacy for his leadership?

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The PM has pointed out the strength of his administration. "I do not belong to any party. I represent the 'Move the Country Forward' party. There is neither an opposition nor a government camp."

Maybe this should be reworded as "there is no opposition because I had them all arrested and sent to military camps for 'attitude adjustments', and they know that they will get sent back if they speak out".

And this means that the general is calling Suthep a liar when he said that they had been planning the coup together for 4 years.

On the other hand maybe this should be reworded as

"the seven months before the coup showed clearly that politics as usual must be out of the equation for the time being as being totally unhelpful in bringing the country forward ."

What was totally unhelpful in bringing the country forward were the actions of Suthep, who later admitted to being in cahoots with Prayuth and doing the whole thing to stir up enough chaos for the military to have an excuse to launch a coup.

So your argument boils down to "the Yellows should be in charge of the country even though they are unelectable, because if they are not then they will spit the dummy and cause trouble".

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The PM has pointed out the strength of his administration. "I do not belong to any party. I represent the 'Move the Country Forward' party. There is neither an opposition nor a government camp."

Maybe this should be reworded as "there is no opposition because I had them all arrested and sent to military camps for 'attitude adjustments', and they know that they will get sent back if they speak out".

And this means that the general is calling Suthep a liar when he said that they had been planning the coup together for 4 years.

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For the time being the army boys are doing way much better than the previous lot. Nobody in their right mind would want lil sis, Chalerm and Tarit back. That is the only thing that matters. Now see if Prayuth can push things further with this team.

And who would dare say otherwise? Criticise the junta and get hauled off to jail.

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The seizure also indicated that drug traffickers are shifting narcotics transportation routes from the North through the northeast provinces.

This is hardly recent news. For years now around Ubol there have been a lot of cops looking for people shipping drugs over from Laos to Bangkok and beyond.

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Questions must be raised on why Ahbisit meekly allowed the military to made all the decision when he cowered inside the military safe house. Even the decision to use elements of the Burapha Payak military group 2nd division was provocative. Known for their strong anti UDD stance and given a blank check by the weak Ahbisit, they were shooting on sight resulting in so many deaths. If only he practiced Yingluck tolerance even under extremely dire situation, many lives would have been saved.

Does completely ignoring the political violence being carried out by her supporters equate to tolerance?

Isn't it strange that the violence has now stopped after the coup, carried out by the supposedly bloodthirsty military?

Just people getting dragged off the street for things like throwing the Hunger Games salute.

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Who did order the killing then? Someone needs to be held responsible for the bloodbath. If it is not Suthep and Abhisit then maybe some military people need to go on trial.

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Maybe no one "ordered the killing". The facts are that protesters were using war weapons against soldiers. Soldiers don't need orders to protect themselves.

Protect themselves from unarmed nurses?

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And if that young nurse had not done what she was sworn to do i.e. Minister to the sick and wounded and to try to save lives. She would not have been mercylessly gunned down on the orders of Khun Suthep.

This is simply tp ridiculous for words. Do you really believe your own propaganda? Why would K Suthep order the killing of a nurse? And what evidence do you have? None, off course. This is just blind prejudice no doubt posted at the behest of others.

Who did order the killing then? Someone needs to be held responsible for the bloodbath. If it is not Suthep and Abhisit then maybe some military people need to go on trial.

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Indeed they do so tell us who ordered the riots started that led to the grenades being fired at the army killing army personnel, an attack which sparked the retaliation from the army.

Tell us who ordered the attack on the sky train station that killed one and injured others.

Tell us why the red leaders refused to pack up and leave after agreeing to do so, for it was that decision and those who made it that must be held responsible for all the deaths and injuries after that time.

There is no doubt about that for if they had gone as agreed there would have been no need to move them on by force.

Tell us who ordered the men in black to fire on the army.

Tell us who supplied the weapons to the red rioters and the funding to use them.

Once you have answered these questions then you will know who must be held responsible.

Tell us who triggered the protests in the first place by Prime Minister without being elected, and then refusing to stand for election (even the previous Prime Minister of my home country, who I consider a reprehensible human being in many ways, had the decency to do this).

The reason the Reds didn't move out of Ratchaprasong was because they didn't believe Abhisit was sincere about his promise to hold elections. If he had shown them that he was serious about elections, then I have no doubt that the Reds would have dispersed.

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So zero accountability for 100 plus deaths. Disgusting.

Given that it wasn't 100 plus deaths, and some of those less than 100 deaths were at the hands of the armed protesters, how far do you think the accountability should be spread?

Two people in my friend's family never came back from Ratchaprasong. Neither of them were included in the "official" death toll.

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The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

seems to bring back many old sayings

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones

If you want to play in the road do not complain if you get hit

yes some one has to take responsibility

but as many thais will tell you if Farlang where not there at the time it would not have happened

so is it not true if The Red shirts had not taken over the streets there would have been no deaths

Guess another saying is true

If you make your bed

you have to lie in it

My 5 bahts worth

And if that young nurse had not done what she was sworn to do i.e. Minister to the sick and wounded and to try to save lives. She would not have been mercylessly gunned down on the orders of Khun Suthep.

This is simply tp ridiculous for words. Do you really believe your own propaganda? Why would K Suthep order the killing of a nurse? And what evidence do you have? None, off course. This is just blind prejudice no doubt posted at the behest of others.

Who did order the killing then? Someone needs to be held responsible for the bloodbath. If it is not Suthep and Abhisit then maybe some military people need to go on trial.

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What's going on in Thailand now is much better than what we had pre-coup. No political protests, bombs or violence. And a few things cleaned up too.

And no one would dare say otherwise now would they? Or they would risk being "cleaned up" too (I'm apparently not allowed to say "dragged off the street and held incommunicado" anymore).

I take it you dislike George Orwell's book 1984 then? As well as The Hunger Games, Tropico 5 and eating sandwiches in public?

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Is it a slow news day or something? When I lived on Sukhumvit I saw this kind of thing happen on a regular basis. A lot of people lose themselves in a world of sex / drugs / alcohol, and don't realise they're hitting rock bottom until it's too late.

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can not reply as my sentences are not coherent so you will not understand them therefore it is useless to reply as my teacher at school was no good. Ha Ha.

Let me be more simple. PTP name was not the reason for their criticism it was the non democratic bad governance that was criticized. ( was that sentence OK ??)

At this time before any evaluation is put on the early performance, the army is criticized because of it's tag=army. ( is that sentence OK)

Where was it written in the law that it was legal re PTP. and where is it written in the law that it's illegal now.??

We are and should be using the word Constructive criticism. the army is talking about disruptive/organized/threatening agenda groups. The way some of you people are talking is we all have a gun at our heads and are not allowed to talk. This is the anti army propaganda that is not wanted in these early days.

Thaksin has just told his followers to go with and support Prayuth. now it's shut a few up hasn't it. (another thread).

"Where was it written in the law that it was legal re PTP. and where is it written in the law that it's illegal now.??"

By your own admission the PTP was criticized and nobody went to jail for that. The junta rules by decree, and one of their earliest decrees was against criticizing their rule.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/us-thailand-politics-fear-insight-idUSKBN0GM08L20140822

You have just cracked the nut, ( criticizing their rule ) as you said, now the difference is constructive criticism of what decisions they are making, is what Prayuth asked for in his televised talk. vast difference especially if it is personal or from known trouble makers etc.

'constuctive criticism'? When was the ban on any criticism lifted?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728255-thai-army-takes-aim-at-media-to-muzzle-dissent/?hl=media

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728815-media-organisations-urge-junta-to-lift-coup-orders-that-restrict-press-freedom/?hl=media

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727561-thai-army-censors-media-as-martial-law-declared/?hl=media

As far as 'cracked the nut' I just referenced an uncensored news source.

If you want constructive criticism, then I must criticize restrictions on freedom of speech, press and association; they are critical for 'real democracy', and also critical to educate and prepare people for democracy.

WOW. A military dictatorship is not allowing media freedoms. No surprises there.

How about a PTP "democracy" that won't allow freedom of speech here.

How about a PTP "democracy" that won't allow freedom of media here.

The tool of democracy can be evil if yielded by the wrong dictator.

Luckily the tool of dictatorship is being yielded by a democratic visionary so all is good.

Well done to the Right Honorable General Preyuth.

Let us look at each of those two cases. In the first, a single government minister made a threat of legal action against some demonstrators. But did he even follow through on these threats? Did PTP even get behind him? The editorial you posted is pretty scathing, was there any legal action against the writer or the publisher?

The second case did involve legal action, but it was taken as a result of cartoons that labelled Yingluck as a whore. This would be considered sexual harassment in the West.

Now let us compare that to dragging people off the street to be held incommunicado in military camps for reading 1984.

BTW don't you know that we are no longer allowed to refer to Prayuth's government as a military dictatorship? Posts in this thread have been deleted for this.

I would report your post as something that could "be construed as negative about the imposition of Martial Law and the Coup", but I actually believe in freedom of speech so I will let it stand.

Plus, I am seriously starting to believe that you are secretly on the red side, and are expressing your views while dodging censorship by satirising the yellow side. If so, then as a fellow Bombers fan I take my hat off to you.

Maybe I should make a sock puppet account and start doing the same.

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Reading these posts day after day have made me come to realize that there are so many foreigners here in Thailand that really have no place else to call their home. They just continue to complain. They don't even have the sense enough to leave. We too are tired of your complains. We too would like you to be happy with yourself, your life. So please, take the next few days to figure out where would you best fit in this world. You could pack your things or sell them and then just quietly leave. Believe me you will not be missed. Look at it this way, the new PM is cleaning-up all the problem areas, and you are included as part of the clean-up.

I have already moved out of Thailand. However I still continue to visit often because there are people that I care about that really do have no other place to call home (they are Thai).

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He's the best hope this pretty hopeless land has at the moment. At least we can see he has had a pretty good stab at things before he becomes PM, unlike the rest of the failures and money grabbers who have ever held the post. I am convinced he's honest and sincere, and that's a good start, give the bloke a fair go.He if fails badly then I really don't see a lot of hope for the future here.

I'm all for giving him a fair go. Let's see him run in a free and fair election (and not some farce of 200 hand-picked voters and no rival candidates).

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