crobe

On 5/29/2020 at 8:27 AM, newnative said:

   Yes, I disagree with the car ban.  Pattaya might have enough baht buses but they serve too little of the city on regular routes.  Plus, they are open to the elements and it's difficult to carry much.  Tourists here for a short period might be able to get along ok with just the baht buses but many regular full-time residents need a car--which is why they buy them in the first place.

I have to agree and disagree.

The baht buses are not enough for the outskirts of the city, especially for the dark side, and so I would disagree with any car ban there.

But during the lockdown they did show that it is possible to cordon off the immediate centre of the city (from Sukhumvit to the beach and from Pattaya Nua to Pattaya Tai).

This is the main tourist area and if they want to make Pattaya a "world-class tourist destination", then banning private vehicles from this area would be a good start. This should be done in conjunction with the opening of the monorail (if ever).

This would make the central area, including the beach area, much more pleasant.

There may have to be some limited exceptions for deliveries (at certain specified times), and emergencies.

The problem is I don't see the people in City Hall (within the area) or government agencies such as ToT (on third road) agreeing to this, as they would put their own interests above that of the city.

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

For a seaside city promoting itself as a world class family holiday resort, to have no proper metered taxis just shows the only thing world class about Pattaya is corruption. 

And there, in the spirit of detente - I would have to absolutely agree with you.

The fact that you can have metered taxis in Bangkok, but in Pattaya they have "metered" signs on the roof but no meter in the taxi, shows a disgraceful lack of concern, or worse, on the part of the Pattaya mayor and his predecessors.

We all know the power of the taxi lobby here, but if the Mayor cannot handle this then he should be replaced.

They are still around

Not sure about the model you want but they were on display and on sale at the Harbor Mall in Lam Chabaeng a few weeks ago.

The only UK politician who seems to have a grip is Nicola Sturgeon.

Every day when she gave the figures for COVID cases and death she would say "these are of course an underestimate"

At least honest

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

There's also lots of Burmese, Khmer, and Vietnamese, working for Thai's here, earning a lot less.  Simply doing the jobs Thai's will not do.  They send money back to their home country.  How much of their salary benefits the local Pattaya economy?

Sometimes I work abroad for a stint - of course I send money back to the family in Thailand, a lot of people living here work offshore, send the money back to the Thai wife and kids

I have no problem with this

Why do you have a problem with it?

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I wouldn't believe a word a local real estate agent says.  Do you really believe them?  I'm now guessing you are one of them.  Time for you to head back to your home country.  The party is over. 

I already told you, I work here - my main client is the government - I have no interests in real estate other than the house I live in

Do keep up

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

Do you really think 6000 baht Thai salaries, a lot of which is sent home, is what made Pattaya prosperous? 

 

Do you have any idea how much the hookers make, on top of their 6000 baht a month?

I don't ask them

If they make a lot then good for them

Why do you object if they send this back to their families?

And just because someone is only earning 6k a month does not mean they are worth any less, and yes, it is the service girls the shop assistants, the hotel cleaners, the food sellers, the waitresses and all the others who make Pattaya what it is   

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The Chinese owned Thai companies mainly employ 300 baht a day Thai employees.   Many are from other areas in Thailand.  These staff members live cheaply here, and send money to their family in another provinces every money, so that's money leaving the Pattaya economy.

 

I am sure you know this.  

 

You are trying to make out the mega wealthy Chinese holiday here.  They don't. Why would they?

I didn't say the mega rich chinese were holidaying here, I said they were buying up apartments in the 30M+ range - check this with any of the local realtors selling these properties.

Do try to keep up

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The Chinese owned Thai companies mainly employ 300 baht a day Thai employees.   Many are from other areas in Thailand.  These staff members live cheaply here, and send money to their family in another provinces every money, so that's money leaving the Pattaya economy.

 

I am sure you know this.  

 

You are trying to make out the mega wealthy Chinese holiday here.  They don't. Why would they?

I didn't say the mega rich chinese were holidaying here, I said they were buying up apartments in the 30M+ range - check this with any of the local realtors selling these properties.

Do try to keep up

Just now, Leaver said:

The Chinese owned Thai companies mainly employ 300 baht a day Thai employees.   Many are from other areas in Thailand.  These staff members live cheaply here, and send money to their family in another provinces every money, so that's money leaving the Pattaya economy.

 

I am sure you know this.  

 

You are trying to make out the mega wealthy Chinese holiday here.  They don't. Why would they?

The people working in there are on the same sort of salaries as those working in the rest of the bars in Pattaya. Go ask any of the service girls or cashiers in the bars you go to - they are on about 6k per month - they also send money back to their families in the provinces

I don't have a problem with what they do with their money - why do you?

You bitterness is showing again - you just want to find reasons to put the local people down

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Ok, so, would you care to comment on the thousands of properties on the market in Pattaya, many of which have not sold in years, and this is pre virus? 

I have already commented on this in other threads

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Do you know who owns the establishment?  What if a Chinese company, using Thai nominees, owns it?  If that's the case, where does all the money go?

 

If a genuine Thai company does own it, you can be sure the Chinese tour operator have beat them down to their absolute rock bottom price, for everything.  Their profit margins would be minimal. 

 

The Chinese tour operators even built a fake Buddhist temple here, rather than take their tourists to a genuine one and have money go to Thai monks.  

 

Reported on TV.

 

  https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120450-pattaya-police-to-investigate-fake-temple-allegedly-set-up-for-zero-dollar-chinese-tours/

 

 

I don't know who owns it, or care.

A lot of properties, including some of the gogos or bars that you possibly frequent,  are also owned by rich Thais from Bangkok, I could't care there either.

Do you really investigate who owns the restaurant before you go in for the first time?

The fact is that it was employing people, who then spent their money in the smaller restaurants, food stalls, rented apartments etc. etc.

That is money going into the local economy, supporting the people I would like to see continue in work,

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Are we discussing the tourism industry, or the property market? 

We are discussing Pattaya

read the OP title again - it is RIP Pattaya - not RIP tourism or whatever tiny limited area you want to choose.

Tourism, property market, local business , all have a part to play in the economy of Pattaya and whether it is "RIP" or not

9 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I walk around pattaya a lot and don,t see much evidence of spending by tour groups,you witness plenty of people in s21 but not much purchasing there's a lot of small buisnesses ,bars cafes good stalls that benefit from " lower end tourism" which remains in the local economy,you,d have thought the lockdown would have been a graphic example,but no the tat seem to be ploughing on with their quest for the platinum American express card mob.

I forget the name of the entertainment venue, but it is the big monolithic block on Soi 7 of Thepprasit - before the COVID you could see dozens of tour party coaches going there every evening - that is where the tour party money goes.

When you see them on the walking street they are just gawping, not going into the bars, and on the beach road going from the coach to the beach or the speedboat and back - but that just goes to show how separate the different groups of tourists are, and why Pattaya needs all of them to thrive

I don't see why some posters think this is an "us or them" situation - for the most part there is little interaction and the fact that there is more spending coming into the town should be an overall benefit.

I would hope that the small restaurants I frequent in Soi 7 or Soi Bukhao have enough trade to survive, but they would not be getting chinese tour groups, or if they did the character would change so much I would't be going there, so I hope that all range of tourists and expats co-exist. 

57 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Does your average Chinese earn as much as your average Japanese or Korean tourists, and what about the purchasing power of the different currencies?

You will find that the most expensive apartments in the new condo blocks around Pattaya, and I am talking about the 30m+ bracket, were mostly being bought up by Chinese.

GDP per capita may be lower in China, and in Russia, but that does not mean that there are not people with money to spend. In fact the Chinese are about average.

5 minutes ago, kingdong said:

And where do,es the money from these" high spending tourists" end up?back in the local economy or into Japanese tour agents back pockets then out the country?

Obviously a lot goes to the golf courses, to the Karoake bars and to the higher end hotels such as the Dusit Thani.

They may be a "tour party" but that does not mean that it is all-inclusive - there is plenty of free time and money spent locally.

The point is that many countries start of with "all-inclusive tour parties", Thomas Cook was founded on that very premise and a lot of the tourists from the UK first ventured abroad on such tour packages - which built up resorts like Benidorm, or the yanks to the caribbean. But as the tourists got more adventurous they went for their own independent travel.

It is a little ironic for a brit sex-tourist such as Leaver to try to look down on the chinese tour parties.

Just now, Kennycrossfit said:

Most have only been to Pattaya and Bkk

Leaver is so well travelled he has been to Pattaya, Sihahoukville AND Kho Phangan.

And they say travel broadens the mind...

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Chinese are zero baht tourist.  Most are on package holidays purchased in China, and using Chinese owned Thai Companies when in Thailand.

 

The independent Chinese travelers are not much better, with 5 or 6 of them in an AirBnb condo, eating and drinking at home, before going out just to look and take photos. 

 

 

I can remember the time in the UK where people used to make fun of the Japanese tourists, going round in a big group "clickety-click" snapping photos of all the tourists sites.

The Japanese now - especially the golf tour groups - are the highest spending tourists in Thailand - closely followed by the South Koreans.

There needs to be a complete rethink - the world changes and in this respect there are 3 specific areas that need to be addressed:

 - A new station for the high speed rail may mean 200-300 people disembarking at any one time. More frequency and ease of not having to use cars should also mean that the expected number of people coming from Bangkok etc. will increase dramatically.

 - The bus station at Pattaya Nua is now getting too overcrowded and access in and out (the buses coming in going via a small soi), means that this has to be redeveloped.

 - The return of tourism after the COVID has died down will mean the return of tour buses clogging up beach road and second road - incompatible with having a tram system running down the middle of these roads.

So there needs to comprehensive rethink - an interchange or terminal which could comprise the train station, bus station and coach parking linked to a monorail or other system to get people into the centre.

What will be interesting to see from the meeting today is the intended route, last I saw this would also cut straight down walking street, so a lot of redevelopment in that area and disturbance, and possible the return of calls to demolish the sea side of the street.

When (if and when ??), the new high speed train is in operation and there is a station at Pattaya redeveloped, then there will need to be a better solution to bringing people to the centre of Pattaya than just baht buses.

Any plan for a Pattaya monorail has to take this into account

Thatcher kow-towed to the Chinese in 1984 - the worst mistake of her premiership.

Should have agreed to a referendum then under UN resolution 1514 or granted passports to all of the colony.

This is the last stand for the democrats - China can keep pushing them down with extra laws and run out the clock

For the people like Leaver and others - the ones who are looking for a certain type of entertainment - the ones who would go to Amsterdam and say "red light district and bulldog cafe - there isn't anything else there" - then it is clear that Pattaya is still the best place they could have found

After 30-odd pages of this no-one has come up with a better alternative for you - not Sihanoukville, not anywhere else around here - so if it is RIP Pattaya then you better rethink your lifestyle don't you think?

2 minutes ago, MadMac said:

French probably ????

English

Just now, wensiensheng said:

What third party is going to buy the Finance Ministry’s majority stake in an airline subject to constant political interference with how the business is run? Even if sold for a nominal 1baht the potential for future losses and requirement for more debt, surely rules out a non that government bidder?

 

i guess you never know.

They are just reducing the government stake to 48% - 3% is being sold to a local pension fund - Vayapuk - who already have a substantial shareholding