Amras

They have them in Aus as well. Really quick. If you don't line up, takes about 15 seconds to scan your passport, gives you a ticket, you go to the biometric scanner insert ticket, it compares your biometrics to your face via a camera, approved and then lets you through. Would say takes close to 30-45 secs.

But, only AUS and NZ nationals can use it in Australia. Obviously for Visa reasons.

Thats where it becomes difficult. If your on a VISA, then somebody needs to check the visa and stamp it in your book. Thai Nationals excluded.

How they will solve this IF they want to implement it for other nationalities will be the biggest question/issue.

I would think discussing it does cause problems.

But mainly for TV, the numbers of posters dissing Thailand is reaching amazing heights on this forum.

I am of the opinion that sooner or later TV will be another banned website in Thailand.

Poking holes in the country you are a guest in, can't be a wise move.

Especially when there is no reason to do it, you can't change anything.

If you believe this to be a positive and constructive discussion, what do suggest the TV readers do ...... apart from blow some hot air.

This appears to me just another excuse for Thai bashing. Something specifically against forum rules.

I do agree with you on one point. 'Thai bashing' does nothing and I think people who do it should get warned and if they continue banned.

I still don't understand those who criticize Thailand and Thai people for no other reason than to do it. SO I do agree with you on that, 100%.

Especially those who live there and then complain about it. The solution is quite simple, leave. But that's another topic. Thailand has it's problems, as does every other country in the world, even all our 'elite' Western countries. But discussion can sometimes lead somewhere. If there's people monitoring websites like this inside Thailand to see if 'Thai bashing' is being done. Well then maybe, just maybe discussions like these 'may' get someone's attention one day. Even if it makes the difference one day somewhere to one life, it's all worth it in my opinion.

I hate Thai bashing, but sweeping problems like this under the rug doesn't help this situation either.

Granted, we should not ignore child prostitution/sex abuse if we see it, but I haven't seen any of it, and to the best of my knowledge no one I know is involved in it. For obvious reasons I'm not going to go looking for it. While I'm all for ending the appalling business and doing whatever it takes to keep adults from harming children, what do you expect the expat who isn't a pervert to do?

I agree

This really a topic that has nothing to do with an expat forum.

What Thais get up to is totally out of our control.

Posting it in this forum is just a waste of everyones time.

I don't think that's necessarily correct.

The original CNN report was discussing foreigners in Thailand (specifically CM) doing it (and not Thia's), hence why the discussion started.

This is a forum and forums are for discussion and it relates to CM.

If people don't want to be a part of it, it's easy to skip this topic and read the next in the CM list.

While it might be out of our control, a few people are trying to do something about it and the greater the awareness the better the possibility that something may eventual be done about it.

As others have said, ignoring it doesn't make it go away. And there is no harm in discussing something that is happening in the city in which we live.

I tried a friend's rental and thought the experience was a bit like a big Honda Dream. Huge clunk from the gearbox when changing into 1st, and the engine sounded similar to a Dream when revved, too. I sold my Ninja some months ago but would pay the premium if I had to buy another 250cc.

I think it's quite hard to judge a bike from a rental (same as a car). You just don't know how anyone has treated it before you. I contemplated the Ninja because I actually preferred the gearbox on it to the CBR. But it just got too hot between the legs for me driving around the city and I won't be able to get used to have seered legs every day. Also mods will be much easier to come by with the Honda (which will make up for the cost difference).

Back from a blast on the Honda guy's cbr250. Shifts exactly the same as mine so all is well.

That was the only thing I noticed on the bike I rented. Not a deal breaker, just wished it was a bit smoother.

Hey Amras, what was the per day cost to rent the 250? How long did u rent for? Where did u rent from? (city)

looks like I may be wanting to rent for about 30 days.

Not many people have the CBR for rent (that I could find). The only place that had it is Tony's Big Bikes. Can't remember the road but basically the road opposite the moat end of Loh Kroh (on the other side of the moat). Walk down there (you can't turn into it from the moat road going north).

If in doubt, ask around the motorbike rental along Tapae Gate (ont he outside of the moat road). They will point you in the right direction.

Price is normally 800 baht per day excl insurance (100baht per day). But he did it for 800 incl. I rented it for 2 days.

These gals--due to the existing social structure--have no other outs other than "taking care" of Farangs. If they(the exception being very hot Isaan gals) work in the Thai "service" industry they make peanuts, and they get treated with little or no respect.

Some Westerners would give girls respect, but most certainly not all. Also not sure they would make peanuts in entertainment places outside of the tourist scene; clearly if this was the case then all tourist bars would be filled to the brim with pretty girls. In actual fact it's the other way around.. When I go out on Friday night I drive up Chiang Mai Land / Chang Klan usually, and it's the non-tourist venues that are stacked to the brim with pretties.

That said, there is probably a segment that does better in tourist bars, specifically the older ones with reasonable English. But for the young chicks.. they make way more money in local Thai places, often with easier/less risky work.

That is so true. The real lookers (and money makers) can be found right where WTK stated. And indeed the work is less risky and the rewards are much higher. It is a known fact that many of the single Japanese men tourists who end up at that part of town and frequent the establishments there, don't expect to have sex with the girls. They drop a bundle on expensive booze, pay up the nose to have a couple of cuties sitting on their lap singing them songs while they chain smoke cigarettes. The girls don't speak English and for the most part neither do the Japanese men. The only communication is a lot of laughing between them... Afterwards they give very sizable tips and head back to their hotel to drink and smoke some more and watch porno DVD's. I worked with Japanese people in the music industry for many years and every time I was asked to take out some of the guys for a night on the town, it was always the same thing. I never understood it but the guys always seemed to be very satisfied and thanked me profusely for showing them a memorable evening.

Indeed the Japanese and other Asian men that visit these places are very respectful to the girls.

Very true. Go to the Karaoke, Coyote places that aren't on the 'tourist map' and the girls are much much better. You can even tell just driving past. Some of them do speak ok english, it's a bit of luck though.

Loh Kroh was much better around 2 years ago. I remember then there were some reasonably attractive girls. Now I drive down there and well, I can't even say I see one. But the new tourists seem to love it non the less.

Sorry, no that was not what I was trying to say. I was trying (and failing) to say was that for example my wife gets along GREAT with everyone, including partners of friends of mine who were bargirls before, and also we can easily even visit bars in Loi Kroh (yay, back on topic!) together. When I was in a relationship with someone who perceived herself as better than bargirls and the like, this made things much more difficult. To the point where parties with friends who married bargirls just turned awkward, and also she wouldn't want to be seen anywhere near bars, and was just very self conscious about every remark by anyone about being in a relationship with a foreigner. This is what I was attempting to say, that it's good to have a partner with enough confidence to get along with anyone, not care about what anyone thinks, and not be overly obsessed by the whole 'appearances' thing. ( I think the maid thing is more related to an employer-employee relationship than an attempt at being classist. Or it's just what Thais-with-staff do; I don't know. )

Fair enough. That explains probably better what you intended and I think something was lost in your initial discussion. The maid thing could very well be true regarding work, I still think it is over the top, but again choose your battles.

Maybe I'm a little defensive, maybe I just happen to get a decent girl who is from the 'lower class'. But then shes not really Thai, so maybe that makes a difference as well.

I do still think that there are always exceptions (but less so with bar girls as a generalisation). Those working to make a living in low paid jobs and those who take the easy road to cash through bar jobs are two very different type of people. Many people just won't do anything for money, some are happy to. I would never have a relationship with someone who works in P4P for a number of reasons.

Guess it all comes down to an individual. Money comes and goes, a persons character and how they treat people are somethings that don't really change.

As you probably know, a bit of racism is not deemed overly incorrect in Thailand. Different topic. As for a bit of rape, that probably requires a bigger explanation, though I'm sure people who want to misunderstand it can probably still do so just fine: 'a bit of rape' is quite common. Not sure how much experience we all have with the allegedly elusive 'good Thai girls', but if there is one thing that so many of them do when they want to have sex then it's make a very mild 'show of virtue'. For example they'd claim that the half glass of wine they had really went to their head, or they'd pretend to 'resist' ever so slightly. For some the 'slight-resist' is just part of some fantasy, for others it's the fig leaf of virtue that they have to show, so they don't run the risk of seeming slutty.. Clearly we're not talking actual resistance, but if you wanted to seek a scenario to fit 'a little bit of rape' then there you go. DISCLAIMER: I'm NOT advocating that anyone now forces themselves on anyone they fancy. I'm trying to explain some of the 'mixed signals' that newbie Farangs often experience when dating non-bargirls.

That's girls all over, not just in Thailand. I think however that many farang assume that somehow Thai girls are inherently different to western girls. Many attitudes are different, however many such as the 'not appearing slutty' are common to girls all around the world. If they don't at least give the appearance of being difficult, they are making it too easy. Don't forget there is a lot more to female behavior than just that. It's also to weird out guys who don't so conviction etc (even done at a subconscious level). But that's another discussion.

Many farang get the first impressions of bar girls and place that as Thai girls (as do lots of westerners living outside Thailand). But in fact Thai girls, have many of the same needs and struggle with the same issues as girls all around the world.

In any case, treat people how the deserve to be treated by how they treat you and let's not pigeon hole anybody into a class because we are farang and well we are better than that aren't we?

"Functioning as regular middle class people" is certainly an important consideration. Wouldn't the world be wonderful if everybody could do it? Wonderful? Sure then they would be just like us?

Right; Of course I realise people don't control who they fall in love with, but having dated women from many different backgrounds I have to say being with a woman with a more similar education/background/standing to my own has by far been the most stable and balanced. Fewer roller coaster rides.

Nice to know that you do not like s o m e of the classism. So clearly the other some of it is okay with you. I shall aspire to attain such fine middle class or higher middle class functioning.

Yes, some of it is okay with me. Specifically the extent that's just part and parcel of Thai/Asian culture. Western people often say they respect other cultures, but as soon as it clashes even in a very minor way with modern Western values then all of that goes out the door real quick. But yes, the classism that makes it not okay for people in a serving role to get all buddy-buddy with their clientele sits fine with me. And I have adjusted to some of the other ones, lots of things in the way my wife handles maids/staff, giving them their own dishes and spoons and stuff (meaning they cannot use ours), making sure they only use their own washroom, their own door to get in and out, not mixing laundry in any way, i.e. a level of separation. Whatever.. B ut I am very much opposed to the kind of classism that puts people down, especially by people who shouldn't be throwing stones. (This is what I disliked about many *almost* middle class or wannabe middle class people, when they show a tendency to want to put down anyone they feel they are superior to. )

Gee, thanks for all that Winnie. Just think what the world would be like if everyone had "middle class or higher middle class". No more "social issues" except wives making their maids feel like a lower class of animal? Can't even shit in the same hole?

Yeh, a bit of classism is fine for you. How about a bit of racism or a bit of theft or just a very little bit of rape? Like how do you draw the line?

I agree. Maybe not the rape part, but if my girlfriend acted that way (above) to someone I would come down hard on her, because it's not acceptable to treat people like that. The thing is, my girlfriend wouldn't treat people like that, treats everyone equally that deserve to be treated that way. The only people she won't go out of her way to be polite and courteous to are those that aren't to her.

"And I have adjusted to some of the other ones, lots of things in the way my wife handles maids/staff, giving them their own dishes and spoons and stuff (meaning they cannot use ours), making sure they only use their own washroom, their own door to get in and out, not mixing laundry in any way, i.e. a level of separation. Whatever.. B ut I am very much opposed to the kind of classism that puts people down, especially by people who shouldn't be throwing stones. (This is what I disliked about many *almost* middle class or wannabe middle class people, when they show a tendency to want to put down anyone they feel they are superior to. )"

Wow. See I think this type of girl is not a 'good girl'. Is the door labeled 'servant door only'?? I mean common.

Treating others as lower than you purely because they do a job which your unwilling to do is well....quite frankly disgusting. I really dislike people who are snobs and act as if they are better because of what...money? That goes for Thailand and Australia.

Money doesn't define the character of an individual which you seem to forget. Quite honestly those with money can have some of the nastiest personalities in society because of their snobbish attitude.

You seem to imply that those who are 'born' into middle or upper middle class have the right to "show a tendency to want to put down anyone they feel they are superior to." but when someone from a lower class who moves up (or tries to) does the same THEN it annoys you. In both cases it's bad, maybe somewhat worse yes that those who move up the social ladder start to do this as they should know better. but regardless it doesn't excuse behavior like this from anyone IMO.

Regardless of class everyone's a human being, and deserved to be judged by their actions and not by some pigeon holing stereotype. Just as many of us on here complain about the western stereotype of middle to late age men going to Thailand to be a 'sexpat'.

What I was saying that they tend to originate from a poor/rural background, with limited education and limited experience in mainstream middle class society. They are less likely to be an 'equal partner' to you in almost every way. Most notably financially. This imbalance often means that just financial issues alone cause a lot of turbulence in the relationship. Not sure if I should list out all the things that come about from inexperience with managing money or budget, but you are likely to experience some difficult discussions with people from generally the same poor/rural background as most bargirls.

I know a few of them (not having picked them up, or having any interest in them) and they don't go home with customers, don't offer extra services and prefer a steady relationship. But of course, I'm sure you will say you know better.

Not at all. I'm going to say 'it doesn't matter'. Their moral virtue is assumed. (Morals and virtue can also be found in plenty bargirls for that matter, depending on definition). But you will be arguing the silliest of money, budgeting or social issues with partners who were bargirls or waitresses or gas station attendants just the same. The result will likely be you end up not as equal partners.

As for 'social issues' this refers to functioning as regular middle class people now that she's acquired a financially middle or higher middle class life through her relationship with you. That includes 'getting stuff done' pro-actively at government offices and not acting like an inferior, and generally holding her own in society. I'm sure you have heard once or twice (or more) from 'knowledgeable Farangs' on this forum or elsewhere that Thai people can instantly recognize an ex bargirl for a partner. That's of course not realy true; they're not psychic. What it is they're recognising is someone who's uneducated, doesn't handle herself well, and is generally not of the same class they perceive from themselves. Of course they don't know if she was dancing on a pole 1 year ago or walking behind a tractor or waiting tables, but the key is: it doesn't matter to them!' Virtue doesn't enter into it.

I do realise this sucks, and I definitely don't like some of the classism or even domestic racism that's rife in Thailand. But I am explaining why the distinction between bar girl or farm girl for all intends and purposes isn't as big of a thing as many Westerners make it out to be.

Well I had a reply typed out and lost it, so I will try again.

I don't believe for a second the whole relationship equal thing. There are so many variables on this it isn't funny and money is one (yes important of course) factor. A few points. Regardless of whether low or middle class, the only Thais who would be equal to a western income (as an example of mine) are those very upper middle class (ie higher than 100k per year) or the high so Thais, and reality is most farang are not going to get married to them, because of the classism that you so state (high-so's don't value farang and look down on us too, why? Because of the sexpat stereotype we have, well at least older/wiser farang). Probably not true for all, but we don't fit into any class in Thailand except the 'farang' class and most know what good and bad connotations that brings with it.

They lack of money has nothing to do with how good at managing money or budgeting you are. I had a higher than average income in Australian and I am horrible with both budgeting and managing my money. Why? There simply wasn't a need for me to do it. I could buy what I wanted when I wanted. On the other side, those with little money (in low paying jobs) often are looking after parent's/siblings etc on their income, managing to survive themself as well. They can't save, but it's not a priority when your trying to ensure your parents etc have money to have food on the table. Tell me exactly how that isn't good management with money? Yes, they probably buy things they don't need, but WE ALL do that just on a different scale. We are all just human and we all want things to make our life better even IF there is not a necessity for it. But overall I can't believe what these 'lower class' people do with the income they get. I wouldn't be able to survive on it on my own, yet somehow they do and they support their family. Go figure. I can't figure out how they do it.

Financial issues in a relationship will exist if you expect a relationship as in the west (and even then there comes a time when many women choose to not work, look after the family and THEN they are financially reliant on your income so the same scenario exists). There are 2 choices if you decide to be in this situation, either 1. Shutup, accept it and be happy to support them or 2. give them the opportunity that they didn't have to get some education in whatever area it is to be able to gain better employment (personally this is what I would do, if they don't take the offer than you know what they want/are lazy etc and you can choose from there). I think you have to remember that the financial reason is why so many 50+ expats can end up with a early 20something girlfriend in Thailand (and it happens for the very same reason in the west, although less frequent) and they are quite happy for that. Not something to concerned for me as I'm quite a bit younger than that.

Don't forget, social status, behaviors etc are learned. Many people were at some stage lower or middle class and can move and learn to behave in a way to fit in to their new surroundings (or class) when their situation changes, regardless of how they got there...remember people are adaptable, that's what makes us so different animals.

I could easily tell a bar girl from a farm girl, waitress, massage girl etc. The body language is different much different and easily recognisable, that is why Thais, especially girls can tell so easily (remember women are experts in body language, men are not, regardless of nationality it's a proven fact). I think it's very unfair of you (not talking about Thais as I don't expect the same 'western values' as I do of farang) to so easily label all 'lower class' workers as not 'good girls'. There is a vast difference in the intent, morales and virtues of girls working to make a living, ie waitressing, gas station attendants, massage girls (although these are 50/50 and some border with the bar girls) compared to bar girls who know they can use what they have to make money (same goes with probably half of the massage girls) earning 20-30k per month doing extra curricular activities. Compare that to those waitressing 60 hours a week for 6,000 baht (if they are lucky) purely to survive, massaging some hairy, fat old man for 80 baht an hour who has enough money to tip and doesn't because he is too cheap and you should really think about what these people do just to live.

Personally I couldn't do it and I don't understand how they do. But they do it, because Thailand has given them little other choice (everything from M1 up needs to be paid for and many families have the mindset westerners used to have 30 years ago Get a job as soon as you can. They don't value education and until that changes many young people will remain in the 'lower class' as time goes on. Thailand unfortunately needs lower class people, but this does not me for one second do they deserve to be boxed up into a label as 'not good girls' purely because of the situation they are in. Yes they may not be suitable girlfriends, wives, friends purely because of the people they are, but some of the least pretentious, genuine people I know are the ones who don't have a lot.

Thai's will be Thai's. Class system and all. But we aren't Thai's, don't share their same ideas of being in a class. That is my point and why I don't expect farang to pigeonhole people based on class as you suggested. There are many decent people in all classes of life as there are the completely opposite. Bar girls seem to be a mute point, but there are reasons for that. They chose to go into that industry when there are other options. Waitresses, massage girls (those just doing their job) etc do it because it earns an income. Just like in any other country.

Think I should stop.

In some of the massage parlours we could see the farang guy sitting outside trying to look inconspicuous and to not bring attention upon himself that he is the owner.

Actually, those guys are usually tourists trying to get a "good girl' to date them for free. They really get in the way of real customers.

Seriously..? As if there's much difference in background between bargirls, massage girls, waitresses and other lower-end jobs? That's a bit misguided, but up to them of course. (As long as they don't start yapping on TV or elsewhere about having landed a 'good girl' who's actually an hilltribe massage girl or whatever, and how he's so much better than 'those guys who married bargirls' . )

That's a bit presumptuous don't you think? I don't believe for a second that being a massage girl, waitresses etc automatically puts them in the bad to be a gf/person category at all. I know a few of them (not having picked them up, or having any interest in them) and they don't go home with customers, don't offer extra services and prefer a steady relationship. But of course, I'm sure you will say you know better. Someone has to do the low end jobs (in any country) and simply because they do you can't go label them with your preconceived ideas of what type of person 'you' think they are. Sure there are people who aren't the 'good girl', but I've also known girls who have money and aren't so 'good'. Quite rightly makes me angry when people like you lay your all mighty perceptions on people you don't know. Stereotypes exist true, but doesn't mean 'good girls' don't exist in those 'lowly end jobs' Some of them are normal people who are just trying to earn an 'honest living'.

Hi Stu,

Thanks for the reply.

From a few sources I have been quoted (On the road prices)

150 - 80k

250 - 120k wrong price!

250 ABS - 130k

JUDAS wrote in a separate thread buying his for 99 k. And in a small town like Nan I was quoted 110 k / 130 k

I will obviously call around to check on prices but i'm more after peoples opinions on why either the 150 or 250 is better

There are 100+ pages on the threads on both the 150 and 250 i have looked through, Was hoping to start this thread to list both the pros and cons of each model to compare the two heads up.

Cheers

Same in CM. Three different dealers quoted me 129k for the with ABS. Think non ABS was 115k.

Difference between the two really depends on what you want the bike to do. Purely city driving, 150 will probably do. Want to go on longer drives, 250 will be a better option. Carrying a passenger often, I can think the extra power will be a bigger advantage. ABS is always an advantage regardless of how good of a driver you are or not. Even if you can brake in the dry, ABS makes a hell of a lot of difference emergency braking in the wet.

Back from a blast on the Honda guy's cbr250. Shifts exactly the same as mine so all is well.

That was the only thing I noticed on the bike I rented. Not a deal breaker, just wished it was a bit smoother.

Hi all.

Have rented a new CBR for a few days, to try it before ordering one. Had driven a ninja 250 for a few days and liked it except seem to get pretty hot.

Few things about the CBR I noticed different, which I wanted to see if is common and just something to get used to.

- engine breaking seems much bigger than the kawa, is this because it is a single vs twin cylinder of the kawa? Hardly noticeable with the Ninja. Notice it a lot with the CBR esp in 1st and second (ie off and on accelerator) or is it that particular bike?

- Don't like the tinny sound of the engine, but it is a single cylinder and an exhaust can somewhat over come that.

Was more comfortable seat to ride on for a few hours compared to the Ninja though> Do like the smaller frame.

Any input from owners to the engine breaking thing would be great.

Thanks,

Michael

Hi Michael,

There are many experts on this forum that, i'm sure will give you more detailed reasons for engine breaking shortly.

I've found that the Kwacker 250s i've seen have a higher exhaust note, comparable to a large hair dryer and I was under the impression that the CBR is a bigger bike than the Kawa.

So which one are you gonna get?

CBR feels noticeably smaller to me. I'm assuming that the cbrs exhaust is quite restricted and hence the quite horrible note. I'm sure freeing up the exhaust will help a lot.

another thing I noticed today, suspension on the cbr is firmer than the ninja. Not that I mind as my car (which I have to sell) has had coilovers for a while, so used to a firmer ride. Torque is nice tho on the cbr.

Probably end up with the cbr. The engine braking I will get used to. Just was curious if others noticed it with their bikes.

Few other reasons, Cost (ninja just didn't feel worth the extra money), feels more agile in traffic, parts and mods will be cheaper and more available and seat is better, although the riding position of the kawa is a bit more upright. Current pricing I have been told with abs is 129k, but 2 month wait. oh well.

Hi all.

Have rented a new CBR for a few days, to try it before ordering one. Had driven a ninja 250 for a few days and liked it except seem to get pretty hot.

Few things about the CBR I noticed different, which I wanted to see if is common and just something to get used to.

- engine breaking seems much bigger than the kawa, is this because it is a single vs twin cylinder of the kawa? Hardly noticeable with the Ninja. Notice it a lot with the CBR esp in 1st and second (ie off and on accelerator) or is it that particular bike?

- Don't like the tinny sound of the engine, but it is a single cylinder and an exhaust can somewhat over come that.

Was more comfortable seat to ride on for a few hours compared to the Ninja though> Do like the smaller frame.

Any input from owners to the engine breaking thing would be great.

Thanks,

Michael

Hi Michael,

There are many experts on this forum that, i'm sure will give you more detailed reasons for engine breaking shortly.

I've found that the Kwacker 250s i've seen have a higher exhaust note, comparable to a large hair dryer and I was under the impression that the CBR is a bigger bike than the Kawa.

So which one are you gonna get?

Why all the talk of breaking your engines? Perhaps you meant to ask about engine BRAKING?

Awesome post mate. Aren't you a great contribution to the board. Bit bored are we? Typo's happen. You'll live.

Hi all.

Have rented a new CBR for a few days, to try it before ordering one. Had driven a ninja 250 for a few days and liked it except seem to get pretty hot.

Few things about the CBR I noticed different, which I wanted to see if is common and just something to get used to.

- engine breaking seems much bigger than the kawa, is this because it is a single vs twin cylinder of the kawa? Hardly noticeable with the Ninja. Notice it a lot with the CBR esp in 1st and second (ie off and on accelerator) or is it that particular bike?

- Don't like the tinny sound of the engine, but it is a single cylinder and an exhaust can somewhat over come that.

Was more comfortable seat to ride on for a few hours compared to the Ninja though> Do like the smaller frame.

Any input from owners to the engine breaking thing would be great.

Thanks,

Michael

<br />

<br />Speaking of this, has anyone tried Sumet for servicing etc.... I know we had a few comments regarding the shop, but to me this means nothing in comparison to the workmanship.<br />

<br /><br />Yes. Did my 6000km service them. Very happy with the service, and is a breath of fresh air dealing with western (and westernized) English speakers who believe in western standards, duty, and competence. The Westernized Thai owner was virtually fuming contempt at the way some of the other Honda dealers were treating customers (refusing to take the platinum package vouchers cause the bike wasn't bought from them). I cannot imagine their mechanics get away with eating somtam and smoking a cig while tending to a customer's machine.  <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br /><br />It's a great addition to the Bangkok bike experience having a western owned and managed Honda dealership. And makes running a bike here so much easier.<br />

Overkill. Really it is. All bikes, cars etc always have residual oil in the sump, lingering on parts etc. Never have I heard of anyone forcing air into the engine to remove oil. Really it's not neccessary. I never do it on my car and I have a high performance retuned car, nor do anyone I know with similar cars go to the trouble.

Let it drain, use good oil in the first place and any residual will have a small effect on the new oil you put in, it's just not worth worrying about.

Regular changes also work much better to. Ie changing the oil in between the manufacturers recommendations, as they are often to long for a performance engine. But again it depends on the quality of the oil.

To the OP, I'll be moving to CM actually next month. Have a few mates from Australia already been living there for the last few years, although I have been visiting frequently for the last while as well.

Happy to get together and have a beer or two and always make new friends though. CM is a great place. I love Bangkok's clubs and there is just nothing like it really in CM, but it's alright and there is a lot more to do after you get tired of going out everynight and want to check out some things during the day. Much easier to get around.

Just wish CM was on the beach though.

And I'm 27 too. Don't listen to all these 'all girls at bars are hookers types'. Normal girls enjoy going out and having a drink too. Use your gut and you will be ok. Plenty of girls who work, or don't go to uni that aren't hookers as well.

Just because a thai girl can speak some english, also doesn't mean she's a hooker. Could also mean she works in the tourist areas, outside the P2P crap. Don't know why people forget that.

Clearly you can tell people who have been burnt before or know someone who has.

Cheers.

"One thing is clear, no virus or bacterium acts that fast, " - firstly that is nonsense and secondly you don't know "how fast" anyway do you?

I think there is a lot of rubbish posted here by people who like to think it is a kind of conspiracy theory and want to be part of it.

The truth is probably far more mundane.

The people died due to some problem associated with the hotel or tourism. THe Thai authorities have no interst in the truth, those involved or finding out what happened - they simply want the matter to go away.

" firstly that is nonsense ", really, so you are an expert on viral and bacterial infections? Please educate me as to which can kill within a couple of hours. I'm just a run of the mill scientist, always willing to learn from an expert.

If you were any sort of "scientist" , you wouldn't need to ask me.

In other words you don't know, you just like to rubbish other people's comments

Hmm... ok, if you actually do research. In general no Virus can act that fast, within a few hours to produce symptoms, Virus' generally take longer for symptoms to show up, and then are persistant while your body attempts to fight it off. This all has to do with immune response.

Bacterial infections are different and can cause serious illness much faster than viral infections as a number of bacteria produce enterotoxins which are excreted during their replication and growth. This is the biggest issue with bacteria and not the actual bacterium themselves.

One example is:

staphylococcal enterotoxin B agent: Staphylococcus aureus symptoms: acts in 3-12 hours; produces chills, headache, and high fever (up to 106 degrees) for several days death: incapacitating but rarely fatal.

although most can be treated, botulism is generally one exception which can kill quickly, yet other people have known to survive.

Toxic shock syndrome is probably one of the more severe reactions to Staphylococcus which can kill in hours. Have a read about it.

http://en.wikipedia...._shock_syndrome

How about instead of people just blurting garbage, you actually make sure what your saying is fact, instead of assuming and DO SOME RESEARCH FIRST.

Whether or not a bacterial 'food poisoning' occuerred here is very hard to tell, assuming all the symptoms, etc of the individuals has actually be accurately disclosed. Not saying there possibly isn't an issue with the hotel, but we honestly don't know.

AND no it can't be cyanide, cyanide prevents your blood cells binding to oxygen, so you would essentially internally suffocate, which the girl in hospital before dying did not.

It certainly sounds like a bacterial toxin, which is why someone young died and her friends survived. As bacterial toxins don't act dependent on the immune system like Virus' do and hence why they can be so deadly to anyone of any age.

The old people, now thats a mystery, but certainly not improbably that one died and the other died later due to their age.

The old people and the girls you can possibly explain (as two seperate accounts), but having the third thai tourist guide, means it is likely connected to the hotel, or by chance they all at at the same place that day.

Was there any suggestion that the girls and the tourist guide where familair with each other?

Yes, I have also studied science, but clearly I learnt something during when I studied.

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the in-between called a developing nation. Much different to true third world countries like in Africa, the middle east etc. Vast differences between the two.

Look at some of the countries above Thailand here:

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

and here

http://en.wikipedia....l%29_per_capita

Of course it's more politically correct to use "developing", and it's true that "Third World" hardly means anything objective these days (if it ever did).

Personally I'd would just use the term "pathetic" or "pitiful" depending on the context. (joking but just barely)

Not many third world countries I know of have huge shopping malls, high speed internet etc.

Even the poorest countries, including Thailand's beloved neighbors Cambodia and Burma have these things, but they're only for the oppressors running the show, and maybe some privileged foreigners. Even sticking to pure economics rather than politics, the question is: what percentage of the population can actually afford to be consumers of these?

True, Thailand is getting up to maybe 20%, higher than many. More telling to me is the fact that a rural poor person feels like they're trespassing even setting foot inside a place like Siam Paragon.

The issue of the police is a completely different one and obviously one day hopefully get's fixed. But the casualness of the police is what many enjoy about thailand, with respect to some rules. Not saying I agree, or disagree, simply pointing out the reality.

If all of Thailand's laws were strictly enforced then 95% or more of the population would be criminals. Which of course is what allows the brown-shirt mafia to arbitrarily demand payments whenever the opportunity presents.

Actually Thailand is classed as a newly industrialized country (which often is referred to as developing, but there is no 'classification of developing country'). It's not exactly first world, but even a common sense person can see how far it is from true third world countries which deserve the definition such as those in the likes of Africa, which lack sanitation and education, have starvation etc all exist. Thailand's not up there with the best of countries in terms of first world, and has a long way to go to become the equivalent of Singapore which has achieve third world status.

"Thailand experienced rapid economic growth between 1985 and 1995 and is a newly industrialized country with tourism, due to well-known tourist destinations such as Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai and Ko Samui, and exports contributing significantly to the economy.^{[11][12]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand}

and.. http://en.wikipedia....ialized_country

where Thailand is on the list with China, Phillipines, Mexico amongst others.

I can't beleive people think Thailand is third world. It's far from it and your bias' and prejudice for whatever reason, don't make it third world. I would tend to believe the countless numbers of official country classification sources available then a few disgruntled opinions here. Still boggles me why so many people who seem to have nothing but complaints about Thailand still live here. Really, I don't get it.

Thailand has a long way to go, but progress is being made, albeit slowly and although it may take longer then during your life time, but social change is rarely rapid. The next generation that comes through the political system in Thailand may have new ideas for moving Thailand into the 1st world or at least starting to push it more, as they likely have had much greater exposure to the west, our 'ideals', our influence etc.

And learn how to use

For a third world country Thailand is pretty safe, but this is a third world country, where the police are a waste of space, so you have to watch out for yourself.

I would never book a cheap hotel before I had seen it, nor would I eat at a place that looked iffy, nor venture into an area that looked unsafe. If I did any of these things, realising my mistake, I would walk away very quickly and always find a better alternative.

I make the assuption that the police are there as a visual deterent to crime... and nothing more. In the same way that shop assistants are a visual deterent to shoplifting.... and nothing more.

The only thing that is of help is this sort of website, now I know not to stay in a Downtown Inn in Phuket.

Maybe we need a full blacklist directory to consult, "A tourist guide to avoiding death.."

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the inbetween called a developing nation. Much different to true third world countries like in Africa, the middle east etc. Vast differences between the two. Not many third world countries I know of have huge shopping malls, high speed internet etc.

The issue of the police is a completely different one and obviously one day hopefully get's fixed. But the casualness of the police is what many enjoy about thailand, with respect to some rules. Not saying I agree, or disagree, simply pointing out the reality.

Wow, what a misleading article and one that ignores sequencing research for the past decade. The Sanger test was developed in the 1970's. R&D did not stop with Freddy Sanger's discovery. The Thai test might be a new variant, but the concept of deep sequencing tests has been around for several years. For example, as far back as 2004 Roche through its 453 bio science company has provided advanced sequencing testing equipment. Monogram Biosciences has been doing the testing for years. Nice spin to the story.

It may have existed true, but my understanding is they never claimed to invent the deep sequencing method, only a test kit which uses that method to detect drug resitant HIV strains, which would appear to have not been done before. To me it is not misleading at all.

D

Of greater concern should be; Dr Wasun asserted being able to detect HIV-1 drug resistant viruses in small amounts can be highly beneficial in HIV-1 therapy because doctors will be able to change the type of drugs to the patients faster. The sooner, the better, otherwise, the virus will resist all drug regimens

Reading between the lines is that Thailand has a nice big reservoir of infectious subjects that do not respond to the current drug treatments. The problem Thailand has is that its position on respecting intellectual property rights means that a great many innovative new drugs are not readily available in Thailand. Test all they want, but a resistant strain isn't going to respond to treatment unless the right drugs are used, and the current Thai medicine cabinet is not fully stocked. Not that it matters since the poor cannot afford the drugs anyway. And before anyone says so what, the poor are usually what ends up working in the bars which means that it has a direct impact on the lovelorn foreigners that meet their dearest love.

It's a rather depressing story, if one is keeping abreast of the rising number of seropositives in Thailand.

A nice big reservoir? Umm, thats an elegant way of putting it isn't it? Can you please provide your source to what is and is not available in the drug market in Thailand to treat diseases? I find it hard to believe that this medication isn't available. 'Copying' drugs isn't quite as simple as burning an illegal CD. It takes years to be able to make 'generics' of patented drugs and Thailand actually has pharmaceutical (big company representation) manufacturing in country for local and export markets.

These drugs are not cheap anywhere, regardless of Thailand. Even in AUS HIV therapy can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars over your life depending when you get it. For most people that is even unaffordable.

And farang claim that Thais aren't smart?

If you read other threads I think you will find that Thais are saying that they are not very smart, or at least the kids aren't.. This is about one doctor and a few others who did the work while he gets the credit. The people involved are a microscopic proportion of the population of Thailand.

That's the case everywhere in research. The head researcher always gets the most prestige from any outcome. This is not a Thailand anomoly.

I don't get it. It's one day. Really people can't drink for one day, that some bars try to stay open? Or is it that they assume they will get away with it.

Selective or not, why take the risk is the point? If they were close, another bar would have got done. Simple.

Even trying to sneak through 'back doors', why? It's one frikin day.

It is laughable that many motorcycle stores say 'Farang NO can buy motorbike'- as I have owned maybe 8 in the last decade. So my girl and I cannot hold back our laugh to each other every single time we hear this.... same as cars- most thai's have no idea of the buy\sell rules for Farang- as we are rarely their customers. When we are often the Farang is putting in a Thai girls name- IMO a mistake unless it a generous gift. You must accept it is a GIFT and you can never have it back- same as car, house, etc. Yet that another story and sounds like you wish to purchase in your own name. many times I have heard a shop say this is the first time they hear of a farang put in their name.... except in the middle of CMai city of course. But i do not find the best deals in the centre. Often if you go in with a Thai girl then they will try persuade you to put in the Thai name to save hassles.

Work permit or Certificate of Residency needed in the motor office to get the book in your name. Of couse with a Non Immigrant or above Visa typically.... EXCEPT;

Now in saying all that i purchased one on a Tourist Visa several times as I pay the guys 1500-2000bt in the Motor Office for speedy service and no hassles--- 'Tea money'. They always very happy. Manager get 1000bt and Thai mate whom an officer get 500bt + 100 pipers. lol. Always far easier than doing all the paperwork and getting it all together. Plus saves a great deal of time for $50 or so. Worth it IMO. Also pay it when i have current Non Immigrant Visa B that i mostly get--- as it saves time and hassle. As no work permit and cannot be bothered arranging Residency Certificate.

Seem to save on other costs that others need to pay- so the Thai way is far easier in my experience. Last 2 cars and 2 bikes i have performed the Thai way and regret all the hassles with all previous bikes and cars. Others will say it a rip off- yet it more efficient for me thus cost effective and no waiting around forever. Or going back and forth forever getting all the documents required- which often depends on the officer you get. Often all this hassle in past years simply put me off purchasing a big bike or car. Now all is good.

Cheers Jay

Absolute crap. Tea money etc are NOT required. I bought a scooter on a 30 day visa exempt stamp, all I needed was a residency certificate which took about 20 mins from CM immigration. That and my passport and I was able to buy a bike. All the above is not required. Sounds like you paid for something you didn't have to. Wasted your money really.

Hmm another point.....Girls in bikini's are just fine. Cover's up just enough to leave the rest to imagination.......................

No need for topless really.......