valerian

...no-body's suffering due to political intrigue..

That has got to be the understatement of the decade.

Since 2000 - Thailand has had a poorer performance, in relative terms, compared to it's neighbours.

Have a look at http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/NY.GNP.PCAP.CD/compare?country=th#country=kh:id:my:th

Since 2000, up until now, Thai minimum wages were practically at a stand still.

In fact, in real value terms, minimum wages declined during 2000 - 2011.

Do you think the situation was the same in neighbouring countries?

And since 2000 - political violence, division of people and political manipulation has been an everyday story.

Not to mention extra-judicial killings, violent unconstitutional and undemocratic attempts to throw out the opposition from office (UDD 2010), numerous manipulations of the courts (Thaksin 2001, Cake Bribe 2008 etc etc) and countless lies to everyone and anyone.

Nobody's suffering due to political intrigue, huh?

Me thinks that the poor people of Thailand, and in fact probably all Thais(except maybe the Thaksin gang) would have been far better off without that "political intrigue".

Thread of the year last year was all the TV experts predicting that TS would be home by December 2011.

I've decided to not listen to predictions from TV members.

That's my New Year resolution.

You're right! The anti-Thaksin sentiment in the country is indeed stronger than even TV members anticipated.

How about looking at the foremost democracies in the world?

Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Denmark are the worlds top democracies. And have a long history of minority governments.

As well as of governments where the largest party wasn't part of the coalition government.

An example:

Sweden 1979: (http://en.wikipedia...._election,_1979)

Socialdemokraterna: 154 MPs (largest party)

Moderaterna: 73 MPs. (second largest party)

Is that substantial enough for you? (took about 5 minutes to find on Wiki)

Quite misleading indeed. In this case there were very clear political leanings in the coalition groups; one side centre-right and the other socialist/ communist.

"Misleading"? Wow. Is that your neural pathways you're talking about?

Please try to keep your comments on the subject.

Which, btw, was a supposed precedence in coalitionbuilding by strength of MP count.

Something PPP back in the days claimed to have too.

But otherwise never given much weight in the foremost democracies of the world.

Or did you actually have a point with the political leanings mumble?

The coup government exited the scene in 2007 after the elections. Abhisit came to power after the PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud. The then new PTP (caretaker government) decided not to call an election.

Samak never won an election either. He needed a coalition to form government. Abhisit (an elected MP) also formed a coalition government after he was elected PM in parliament (as were Samak and Somchai).

Yes, but Samak & Somchai's parties had by far the highest amount of MPs. That's how coalitions are formed; when the party with the most votes sides with smaller parties in order to have a parliamentary mandate.

On the other (under)hand, when AV formed his coalition the Dems had a paltry 165 MPs compared to PPP's 233 (only 18 off an absolute majority). There has been no precedent in world democratic political history (that I have been able to uncover) of a party with substantially less MPs than another party leading a coalition government.

How about looking at the foremost democracies in the world?

Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Denmark are the worlds top democracies. And have a long history of minority governments.

As well as of governments where the largest party wasn't part of the coalition government.

An example:

Sweden 1979: (http://en.wikipedia...._election,_1979)

Socialdemokraterna: 154 MPs (largest party)

Moderaterna: 73 MPs. (second largest party)

Is that substantial enough for you? (took about 5 minutes to find on Wiki)

Edit: The party actually leading the coalition government after the election -79 was the third largest party, with 64 MPs.

It's a tragedy what fanatism does to people. And all the suffering it brings about. Regardless of skintone, religion, moral or belief.

Amsterdam is completely lost and I feel so sorry for the all poor farmers that suffer because of him and his likes.

What a load of pure CRAP. She is not facing anything, and she knows, as anyone who has more than 3 braincells, that he was was ousted by an illegal coup and the trumped up charges and silly, stupid, false "conviction" is invalid.

WELCOME HOME TAKSIN.

Yes, the non-care-taker PM was ousted by an illegal coup (is there such a thing as a legal coup?), but did he or did he not sign for his wife to purchase land owned by the FIDF, which is controlled by the government (as shown by them trying to palm off the FIDF debt to the BOT), while he was PM? That sounds like a bit of conflict of interest to me, and is something that is against the law in the 1997 constitution.

Please.. that was a wee bit hard to understand for me. You see I have 4 brain cells, just like the original poster, and they are all occupied trying to hold back my CaPS lOcK abuses.

No, just peripherally or circumstantially implicated in the deaths of many.

And many more circumstantially implicated in covering up crimes.

If you live in a glass house P don't throw stones, you'll get cut by the shards.

Your logic is that because you perceive the Redshirts to have done wrong, that it is ok for an alleged cold blooded killer to sit in the Democrat caucus. Need I remind you of Mr. Abhisit's repeated statements on the need for honesty and ethics? What bigger fail on the subject than to allow an alleged brutal murderer to remain in caucus. The right thing to do is to ask the MP to withdraw until he is cleared. This thread is not about Redshirts. it concerns an MP that is alleged to have planned a murder and then shot the victim in the head. The refusal of Mr. abhisit to remove the man from the caucus is nothing short of tacit support for the accused. Mr. Abhisit has demonstrated once again that he talks alot but can't meet the standards he demands of others.

Ah but you are going for the hang em high approach on this case,

and makes it proper for comparison to your past comments defending

PTP and Redshirt suspects. Or do you subscribe to double standards yet again?

There is more than enough publicly viewable evidences to support my conclusion,

the context for which that you have EDITED OUT of this continuation of the discussion.

And by using your logic, such as it is, then the redshirts MP's

and the PTP MPs who colluded with them,

as caught on video and pictures and public statements,

should all be asked to step down till their cases are properly adjudicated.

And that is likely enough to remove parliamentary advantage.

There is no hanging high sentiment expressed on my part, nor have I edited out any of your comments.

How can you justify the Democrats retaining an alleged murderer in caucus?

The issue here is one of the Democrats staking out the higher moral ground yet failing to act on their statements of ethics and integrity.

In respect to the Redshirts, they are not a political party in the house that has made the same claims to morality as has Mr. Abhisit and the Democrats. At this time there are no redshirt aligned MPs accused of premeditated murder. If they were I would also expect that they should be removed from their respective caucus.

You are so right. And I'm glad to see you take the same high moral ground as the Democrats.

Also, the easiest way to bring down an entire government should be to simply walk in to the nearest police station and accuse every MP of something bad.

Why didn't the red shirts think of this last year?

You can't have reconciliation by steamrollering your way through the people.

It's also an insult to the people to make several material promises to them during the election campaign, break them when in power and then say that they had an effective mandate to makes constitutional amendments that were never detailed.

In short its dishonest.

The PT top brass is a bunch of fraudsters and liers who have made it their trademark to betray and defraud the voters as professionally as possible.

The list to support this is so extensive that only an arse in disguise can believe otherwise. Or a completely blind person.

And it's the same kind of arse that would love to believe PT is anywhere near being pro democracy or human rights.

But... luckily enough for the PT top brass and their followers... there are a lot of donkeys around.

geriatrickid,

Just out of curiosity.. how many weeks have you been to Thailand?

Thailand needs a good opposition, otherwise there would be no point in having a government.. checks and balance is needed in every democratic country, and although PTP did win this election, it is said that they bought most of those votes and 37% of all votes is not really a landslide... and, by the way they are performing it seems they will never win again.. Yinluck runs scared every time she gets asked an awkward question... why will she not do a head to head on live TV with Abhisit.. I think that in every democratic country in this world, the leaders of both rival parties go live on TV to allow the voters to watch the performance of these leaders... why will she not take up the offer..?

You do not make your point effectively because you have allowed your personal bias to overwhelm your comment;

1."It is said, thy bought most of those votes" How does making a false claim support your argument? It is said? By whom? Detractors of the government that's who. Perhaps there were voting irregularities. Do you honestly expect a rational person to accept that only the PTP was responsible for such activity? Voting irregularities occur with all parties in Thailand, including the Democrats. In any case, the results were sufficiently transparent and honest that none of the international monitors objected.

2. PTP won 48.41% of the popular vote. Your Democrats. won 35.1% of the popular vote.

3. Your emphasis upon a TV meeting indicates that you look for dramatic performance over substance. This isn't about providing a theatrical performance or scoring points in debate. It is about guiding a nation through the aftermath of the worst flooding in decades if not a century. It is about restoring peace in a nation ripped apart because of a military coup, political manipulations by the triumverate of malfeasance (military dictatorship/democrats/wealthy power brokers) and the most extensive censorship ever imposed by any Thai government courtesy of Mr. Abhisit.

The only opinion that counts is that of the electorate at the ballot box. Despite you and others fervent hopes, the government did not collapse during the floods, nor was there a coup. The government has retained popular support and with time will most likely be able to achieve an even greater popular vote result next election whilst the Democrats wilt.

กระต่ายตื่นตูม [Meaning: When you are excited, you cannot see the real issue.]

Although the 72 are not all red shirts or joiners of political protests

What's the breakdown in who they are? Are any of the imprisoned 84 yellow shirts included?

Interesting.. are there really 84 yellow shirts imprisoned? Where's information available about those?

Can't give you a link because of the source, but simply google "84 yellow shirts get jail".

Ok. Thx, but it seems they were sentenced a year back. It would be interesting to know how many there are that are imprisoned now.

Maybe they can sent them to Burma. The Burmese are releasing their political prisoners and Thailand is dealing with the absurd number of cases brought by the Abhisit government in lese majeste and other cases that affects freedom of speech. One prison will never be enough. Abhisit must be having wet dreams about a Thai style Guantanamo which he and Prayuth are going to fill after the next coup.

What an absolutely wonderful way to boast ones imprudence that comment was.

Although the 72 are not all red shirts or joiners of political protests

What's the breakdown in who they are? Are any of the imprisoned 84 yellow shirts included?

Interesting.. are there really 84 yellow shirts imprisoned? Where's information available about those?

It would be very interesting to find out more information about various political figures in Thailand.

Just recently, for example, two parties merged (Ruam Chart Pattana and Puea Pandin) and they are to select

a new party leader out of Wannarat Channukul and Charnchai Chairungrueng.

But who are these guys and where do they come from?

There are quite a few politicial figures around that are fairly unknown to the non-thai-speaking farang community.

And there are probably numerous politically interested farangs around that would like to know more about these persons.

Are they business people who's families control large business networks? Or are they politically motivated?

And what about the other guys? Sanoh Thienthong of Pracharaj, Newin of the Bhumjaithai etc.. what interests do they represent?

And what about the Abhisit family.. do they represent economial interests or are they politically motivated only?

Please enlighten me all you political gurus.

Seriously, this is just like two kids fighting over a (broken) toy - neither really wants it, but both are determined the other won't have it...

Here's a suggestion: bomb the pile of bricks into dust - problem goes away.

:jap:

That's what the Thais are actually doing: although they claim ownership of this pagoda. I was there some time ago (driving up from the Cambodian side: I have seen this pagoda for at leats 6 times and therefore can compare) and the damage to the structures (from Thai shelling) and bullit holes is beyond repair. What kind of territorial claim is this? Rather destroy the sanctuary than let it to the other party: that's the main objective now! Poor mind...

Right! - let's simply ask the Cambodians to hand it over. I'm sure they'd prefer to keep it intact under Thai ownership rather than having the Sanctuary destroyed.

I am in Bangkok now, leave on the 11th. Should I leave earlier than that?

You should run.

Cambodian army could enter in Bangkok within a couple of days.

Khmer fighters do not make any prisoner.

They used to rape and behead any girl and handsome man. Are you handsome?

LOL

I do think, however, that some handsome men might survive a rendevouz with the khmer.

Particularly those dressed in red with gf's from Isaan and who know a word or two in the khmen language.

So.. if you're one of those, hold your gf's hand, wave a "Dr T"-flag and scream "Proh Khmeen Sa-beeauum" and you should be alright.

But make sure you say it right, if you say "sa-boom" in stead of "sa-beeauum" you might be in trouble.

Obviously, ugly guys can ignore all of this.

Money trail from the Nonthaburi bombing is now reprtedly going back to the PTP. Lots of explaining to be done by the opposition

Is there more information available on this money trail anywhere?

your friendly forum sponsors do this.

I'll seend you a PM later from my sponsor nick.

That sounds great. Thank you.

Hi,

I need to ship 1m³ of personal goods to Europe from Pattaya.

Anyone have recommendations on who to use?

Best,

Valerian

Up to you if your good luck wishes go to a criminal, convicted of extortion, blackmail and armed robbery.

But please follow the TVF rules:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

555.. I started reading online bulletinboards in -92.

The comment above has got to be the lamest, and funniest, thing I've ever read on a webboard.

(I didn't dare to make the comment bold out of fear for violating the rules, so keep guessing which one I meant)

555.. how superlame.. 555

Swedish Behnam "Benny" Moafi

Swedish , yeah , right ..

I agree. Absolutely not a genetically genuine Swede.

Your average "Pure" Swede would run, not fight.

If you rent a car in Phuket you're leaving behind a trail of information.

Your passport, phonenumber and your signature.

If these guys really were dumb enough to go rent a car to use for this purpose, in a city

full of CCTV cameras - then sure.. no match for the police to track and catch.

But it seems a bit overly dumb to me.

It seems more probable that they were exchanging funds at Super Rich when they saw someone

carry out big bags of money into his car, and decided to follow him on the spot.

And then decided to nick a bag when they saw the opportunity.

Just suggested the following on Abhisits facebook page. Will I become a hero too?

May I suggest a Temporary National Assembly Government until the constitution is rewritten?

That way UDD/PT couldn't request dissolution of Parliament and all parties would have to unite to fix the current situation.

Any party not participating would loose, loose face and portray themselves as not wanting to be a part of a national solution supported by the people.

And could not claim undemocratic means.

National Assembly governments are common in the west during national crisis.

Maybe it could work in Thailand too?