khunsiam

In my work, I have been interacting with the Bangkok middle class for almost thirty years. Of course, I have become fluent in Thai and feel like I thoroughly understand the culture, the attitudes, and the mind-set that it creates in Bangkokians. Perhaps I have something to say here about the events that are unfolding.

More and more I have been listening to friends voicing their resentment at the International news services (CNN, BBC, Reuters, etc.). The majority of the people I know absolutely believe that they are all in the pockets of Thaksin. I think they believe that he has directly paid them through various spin doctoring agencies or that they simply don’t recognize the relentlessness-ruthlessness of the present government in pursuing only one objective. The obvious factor concerning the bias of the international media concerns the idea of dismantling popular elections. This crosses the line which no media service will condone. Personally, I can understand the revulsion and fear that most Western people would experience if a democratic country scrapped elections. However, people in the capital consider any election that has been paid for through corruption, media control, and vote buying is neither free nor fair. Therefore, it is not a “democratic” election. The last Thai national elections and the one scheduled for the February 2^nd agenda, without a doubt, were corrupted and will be corrupted again. They feel that there is no other option but to dismiss any election as so distorted that nothing substantive whatsoever would change. Therefore their voice and their vote would be meaningless. That one greedy, immoral family can control their country affronts their dignity.

From the time the Shinawatra government tried to ram through the amnesty bill at 4:00 a.m. along with the announcement that Thaksin’s nephew (certainly) and son (probably) would be entering into politics, the lid blew off people’s endurance gauge.

The resentment people have for the international press is expanding. They are reading stories which continuously distorts the facts in accordance with information sent to them through P.R. firms contracted to a convicted criminal. So, in reality they don’t do any reporting…they sit in their offices and copy word–for-word the information sent to them. Sabai.

People are reading the ex-pat forums and see that there are farangs who blatantly distort what they see on the streets. In many cases, even worse than the foreign press. I have read comments where an expat shamelessly wrote that he went to see the protests and observed only a few thousand people had gathered. Actually, there were (as satellite photos bear out) 1,000,000 to 3, 000,000! Other comments praise the administrative abilities of Khun Yingluck while criticizing the mental state of Khun Suthep. All this is 100% upside down and deeply offensive. Some forum users criticized the highly respect monks who have softly participated in some of the gatherings. Obviously they don’t have a clue to the grounding they bring to the event. To a growing segment of the anti-government movement, farang ex-pats are becoming the enemies of their quest for freedom. They see that their experiment with democracy gone very wrong and needs to be repaired. They refuse to live under the domination of one utterly and brazenly corrupt family.

The fallout from the many, many comments I just mentioned is that Thai’s are beginning to question why this country needs expats (particularly the variety I mentioned). The days when the money expats brought into the country was important to the economy has long past. The tourist boom, the banking and financial sector, automobile assembly, construction, etc. has become the driving sectors and long term residents are now expendable.

I think people commenting here ought to consider wisely the consequence of their grossly ill-formed comments. Or, someday soon we will all be struggling against the grain to renew our visas no matter what class they fall into.

Thirty years in Thailand

"From the time the Shinawatra government tried to ram through the amnesty bill at 4:00 a.m. along with the announcement that Thaksin’s nephew (certainly) and son (probably) would be entering into politics, the lid blew off people’s endurance gauge"

The uprising was planned by former PAD'ers long before this event.

I doesn't matter in the long run. Whether it's Yingluck or someone else, whenever the next election takes place, they will be voted in. The people want their vote to be respected and not to be bullied.

Correct. However the people also want a govt that rules in a legitimate manner, that does not intimidate opponents and the judiciary, that is not more concerned about their own interests (and that of their DL) than those of the country, that does not use the law as a weapon with the DSI as its attack dog, that is not prepared to bankrupt a bank to maintain a criminally inept rice policy, that is not nepotistic, corrupt and incompetent.

People need to have their vote respected but they also need a govt that respects them. PT fails in all these areas, unless they change their ways they will remain unfit to govern.

That's a weak and false (on all points) justification. Your fooling no one here... well... maybe some TV members. Internationally and domestically, no one is buying it.

Why don't you just be honest and call it for what it is, a power grab ?

Hey moonao, your wrong, every word bluespunk wrote is obvious and correct.

Why is it so difficult to see that a tree is a tree?

it's not a real tree, it's a fata morgana of a tree.

Whatever the opinion of this Pimpaka Nichgaroon, head of research in Bangkok for Thanachart Securities is, he obviously has not consulted the electoral majority...or who will emerge as such after this election...But then one must put this political prognosticator in context...The PAD-Dem's are always trying to project their agenda outside themselves...As if coming from sources outside their own has more meaning. This applies to their penchant for using ostensibly public opinion Polls, referencing any groups they organize as pretend extensive 'networks', and applying monikers seemingly unassociated with themselves.....The UDD/RS disparagingly refer to them as "different groups-same faces'.....Giving airtime to this hopeful PAD-Dem sympathizer Pimpaka and his wishful thinking, doesn't fool anyone and has no more meaning than any other PAD-Dem pontificator....Yingluck has such powerful electoral support that any attempt to dislodge her would be treated as a quasi-coup....Especially after a resounding electoral victory, should that occur. If PAD-Dem's think they can fiddle with the majority electorate like that, they don't appreciate the extent to which these people have been politicized.

so true! "Illusory division" was part of the strategy the PAD-Dem's planned about 8 months ago, the people who told me about the upcoming "Occupy"-inspired uprising never mentioned Suthep at that time, I

guess he wasn't even in the picture as "leader" yet.

It's quite clear who the real fascists are, and have been for a long time. Heil Thaksin!!

Nearly right

SEPTEMBER 23, 2010 (New York) - Five months after violent clashes between anti-government groups and state security forces, the Thai government still uses emergency powers to suppress fundamental human rights, Human Rights Watch said today................. ..................The Emergency Decree on Public Administration in Emergency Situation ("Emergency Decree") allows Thai authorities to carry out extended detention of suspects without charge; deny information about those detained without charge; use unofficial detention facilities, where there are inadequate safeguards against possible abuse in custody; and impose widespread censorship. While implementing the Emergency Decree, officials have effective immunity from prosecution for most acts they commit. "If the Thai government has a legitimate reason to use the Emergency Decree, it should publicly justify it with hard facts," said Sophie Richardson, acting Asia director at Human Rights Watch. "Instead the government continues to enforce the draconian emergency powers and violate basic rights." http://www.hrw.org/news/2010/09/22/thailand-lift-emergency-decree

So how does that make chalerm any less a bully boy, heavy handed, intolerant thug?

count the days...months

Lots of words no meaning

How much more meaning do you want:

"He said the Army would support and assist all sides with no bias."

very different than supporting the government.....They declare themself again as independent.

"But in case that the conflict turns violent and is uncontrollable, then it is necessary for the Army to intervene and resolve the conflict."

very different than supporting the police. Resolving the conflict could mean many things.

The big statement is the army is doing what they want.....

meaning many things and no meaning = same same :-)

This is now reaching farcical proportions. Muslim prayer rooms for protesters? In an occupied govt building? Defies belief

What about buddhists and christians? Would you allow them their praying facilities?

no buddhists around, only those who need Buddhism.

I don't think, many people, in a situation, that could (and has) easily turn violent, would volunteer as guards for free. Besides, you need professionals, to guard the perimeter. Last thing you want, is some loose cannon, making everyone look bad, when they are trying to have a peaceful demonstration.

At the same time, you need skilled, ,armed guards, to protect against these crazy attacks at night. Can't expect them to sit there with prayer beads when the other sides is tossing grenades and shooting at the protesters and guards.

So yes, it makes perfect sense, that these guards, who risk their lives every day, get paid!

I still hear the claims, that the protests are falling apart and having less and less supporters. I have listened to that for months now and it hasn't materialized

Fact is, the alliances of the General population are polarizing and slowly shifting away from Thaksin and his party. If nothing else, undermining the believe in Phuea Thai and ta quotation from Shakespeare’s The Tempest: “Oh God, that men should put an enemy in their mouths to steal away their brains! That we should, with joy, pleasance, revel and applause, transform ourselves into beasts.”he Thaksin Clan, has been a success.

Thai people like to eat and have fun. If you can provide both adequate food and entertainment, you have won half the battle already.

This is a battle for the minds of the people and I think, Khun Suthep is doing a great job so far. Ms. Yingluck is getting more and more desperate and I am sure, her brother, is starting to squirm, in Dubai. After all, getting out with a planeload full of cash and gold, wasn't enough for him. He wants to be on top. For an egomaniac like him (buying Manchester United, etc.), it's about power and control.

a quotation for the minds from Shakespeare’s The Tempest: “Oh God, that men should put an enemy in their mouths to steal away their brains! That we should, with joy, pleasance, revel and applause, transform ourselves into beasts.”

let's not forget the army is divided, don't expect the "watermelons" to support a coup.

A former PAD lawyer is a leader of the Students' and People's Network of which most members were PAD'ers.

I have been in Bangkok for the last three or four coups and by the way, I think there have been 23 coups since 1932, not 15. The 1991 coup was bad when Suchinda loosed the army on the protestors. Hundreds were gunned down in the streets and thousands rounded up and shot and buried in mass graves.

They usually follow the same pattern as this year with denial by the army that a coup is going to happen and tank movements, that we are told, have nothing to do with a planned coup.

They (the coups) usually happen a day or two after I arrive back in BKK. I am on a skiing holiday in Canada at the moment and I arrive back in BKK on 17th. I wonder if I miss this one.

Source: http://archive.worldhistoria.com/topic15715.html

I was not allowed to leave the guesthouse near Khao San road when the soldiers were shooting protestors in the neighborhood in 1991, tourists and travelers 'd have to be informed about that.

The government is trying to play the military card, but the military doesn't want to join the game.

Sure, the generals could run the old coup procedures, but why should they? The only outcome - for which the Shin-clan might hope - is that the upcountry red-shirts are massing up and messing the country up. With just military force you can't run a country these days. Has been proven in the Arab Spring and other instances. Vietnam comes to mind, too.

A coup would be a major victory for the "poor, military-oppressed government" in the eyes of foreign observers, so the sympathy would swing to the masters-of-corruption as the poor guys in this game. At the same the red-shirts would organize a guerilla warfare upcountry, depriving the military and the cities of food, as a simple example. Taksin would come back through the back door, either via Cambodia or another way, only to lead "the people" agains the evil military top brass. And some part of the military would propably defect.

So there is nothing to gain from a full scale coup...

Sam

Ploink.

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

Thats funny because Suthep is acting far far more right wing than Thaksin ever has... great choice these two...... not

There is no evidence for this misconception of yours. Strange conclusion to draw????

Oh Babe, foreigners don't get it yet! Suthep 's put on the forefront by the PAD who are the real masterminds behind all this.

Take a look at the picture in the OP!!

Middleclass Thais in a peaceful protest?? More like rent a mob from the south.

And can someone please explain to me, how killing the countrys tourist industry is going to eradicate corruption??

And as for the PAD not being involved?? Look at the guys headbans!

Stupid, stupid pawns for not realising, that they are being used!!

I am sure that Gen Prem and Sondhi Limthongkul are sharing a few good laughs during their round of golf today!!

Not long ago all posted it is the rich elite...do they look like rich elite? Than other posted it is only the bangkok middle class. Do they look like Bangkok middle class?

The south is furious against Thaksin and what happened at the rubber price demonstrations made it even worse. You don't need to rent a mob in the south

the South was furious against Thaksin from the moment he was elected, I couldn't believe my ears when that happened 13 years ago.

So Bangkok gets shutdown.

Businesses have to close.

People cant get to work or will be intimidated trying to.

Businesses will go bankrupt

People will lose there jobs

Ordinary folk will accumulate more debt

Cant pay the rent cant pay for food etc.

Loans wont get repaid

Homes get foreclosed

Cars repossessed

Crime will go up as the police will be preoccupied

The list goes on

Are the people really thinking about the consequences of this?

NO as they wont think past today.

Sad that they can be manipulated so easily

Small price to pay in order to rid Thailand of the Thaksin mafia!

I say Good luck to them all!

Do you know that the yellow shirts leaders are telling their followers to boycott Farang businesses like Lotus and Mackro because it is putting Thai money into the hands of corrupt westerners that support free elections and democracy?

Be very carefull what you wish for my friend.

Provide some evidence or it never happened.

The fear mongering about yellow shirts hating farangs is so ridiculous.

Grab a Thai flag and head down to a protest site and report the reaction.

I did and people were so pleased to see a farang in their midst. No different than when the red shirts were occupying Rajprasong.

ex-PAD'er Sondhi: "we don't want a western style capitalist based economy in Thailand"

Natthapong: "the riches of the West are all stolen in the colonies"

This month is the month of 'make or break'. Please wait for a signal from us.

I'm gonna stock up on popcorn, because it will get get exciting this month .

What a sad post!! "Our" country might be on the brink of a civil war, and to you it is entertaiment!!

Shame on you!!

Our country? You were born here? I am seriously missing something here.

Indeed, you're missing your glasses.

Am I the only one, who finds the madmans nonsense rhetoric mantras a little boring??

So you disagree with taking down the Thaksin regime and implementing meaningful reforms?

The People's Democratic Reform Committee came up with meaningful reforms?...do they have ideas for reform, are they working on a reform bill? The PDCR throws up the old PAD rhetoric on the stages.

Why is this man still FREE!!!!!!

Because the Elite and their protégés are untouchable.

I can respect anybody, and I mean anybody, when their arguments are logical and they are willing to sit down and speak with the opposition. This, however, is madness. From my point of view, the only "argument" I can see is "we want Thaksin out". That does not really pass as legitimate, sensible discourse. Then, demanding that things happen, without talking or compromising, all while threatening the city's well being and safety of its people? Why is this even being tolerated? I don't understand any of this. At the first sign of Suthep breaking the law, he shuld have been thrown into a jail cell, and a few of his followers who were occupying should have been thrown in for a while as well. Let's see how passionate these people are when they start getting thrown into prison cells. From what I saw on the streets, these are not passionate people, they are people wanting to have a good time and blow whistles on the street, and they have nothing better to do. It is sad to say, but I think the entire state of current affairs in Thailand is perfectly representative of this illogical and non-reasoning country.

" Why is this even being tolerated? I don't understand any of this."

Agreed

compare how the government and authorities in Thailand are pussyfooting around with this guy to how they are currently dealing with a similar situation in the Ukraine right now and previously in Egypt

It's tolerated because the Elite and their protégés are untouchable.

If there was any doubt about where the army stood, it is now gone. Although the Thaksin-inspired Yingluck administration clearly wanted to box the army into the conflict for their own ends by the use of the emergency decree, the army is clearly not buying into it. Indeed, their presence would only escalate the crisis, as well as send alarm signals throughout the world. Even if the emergency decree is imposed, the army would only be armed with batons and shields, making their presence more symbolic. The police, of course, are under the direct control of the administration, but this is a situation that would be beyond their control. It is one thing to guard government house. It is quite another to quell a protest that extends from one end of the city to the other. And as the protest will be a peaceful march, any heavy-handedness on the part of the administration would look terrible, especially as this march will involve people from all walks of life. The media will be key in getting these images across to the country and the world at large. Of course, the UDD is back to the Thaksin playbook in the game of labels. When Thida refers to the " aristocrats " on the streets, one assumes she means the people of Thailand. Again, everyone is painted with a wide brush - and it's always the same terminology - " us " versus " them ". If Jatuporn and company descend onto this peaceful walk it will very likely not be peaceful, and could in fact precipitate the very thing they do not want - a coup. Most troubling is Jatuporn's typical yet dangerous rhetoric trying to place the NACC and Constitution Court in step with the protest movement. These are honourable, autonomous, and much-needed institutions. And inciting distrust of them is fraught with treachery. But it is the very system of checks and balances that the UDD and Thaksin have always been against. It is time for the people to stand up for the institutions that guard the rule of law, and indeed have been successful in keeping Thaksin away. In all likelihood, there will be no coup, as the massive presence of the people will show that change and reform can indeed be achieved through peaceful means. And that's a positive image.

Ploink!

"We will fight under peaceful principles".

I don't think there will be many reds coming to BKK. The missunderstood fugitive will not pay for tens of thousands to come to BKK. Perhaps he'll only pay a few dozen Cambodians for some shooting and torching. He will not go down without bloodshed.

One last post before going to bed. I think the big boss order the red but the middle guys pocket in most and order the the Cambodians professional instead. Cost saving and effective indeed. I wish not so many people die this month.

I hope that the "rat shirts" are included, as you called them

This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence

The rules that were broken were by Yingkuck's administration.

That's what caused this mess

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If the present administration broke any "rules" then the proper procedure would be for the proper channels to respond with subpoenas, arrests, etc. One does not use mob intervention on this pretext. Suthep wants to be crowned by a mob thinking anything is okay that would bring his cronies into power. As far as I can tell, his "political reforms" consist primarily of voter suppression; he knows he can't win an election any other way.

The proper channels did respond with subpoenas, rulings, etc. But the government ignored them and even tried to get rid of these institutions so they could pass laws to ensure Thaksin's ammesty. Thus, the protests.

As mentioned above, this isn't the first time it's happened with Thaksin's party. The protesters are there not to get Suthep elected but to get the Shin clan out.

"The protesters are there not to get Suthep elected but to get the Shin clan out".

Right, but Suthep is there to get the (ex-)PAD affiliates in.

The change of name is significant as its now out in the open as to where his support has been coming from.

There's been no name change. There's at least a half dozen different organizations involved with the protests.

Amazing there are so many groups of people from different walks in life and with differing objectives that are all opposed to whitewashing Thaksin, eh?

There's zero indication of support that you no so subtly infer.

Amazing their lawyers, advisors and leaders are ex-PAD'ers and amazing some foreigners on this forum still don't get that!

today I asked a PAD friend of Anchalee Paireerak about the possibility of such a shut down, the answer: "there 's not a real plan for that, any move by the PDCR can change from day to day, the paralysing of Bangkok... not sure either"

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1388535378.699930.jpg

we are one day later and Suthep changed the plan of paralysing Bkk the early days after newyear to a mass demonstration on 13 january, "plans can change from day to day".

I think She is playing exactly the hand shes advised to, I also think that whatever people like to think about the Shins they are not stupid and are very well educated compared to a lot of the handmedown ammarts the contrast is striking.

Do you have an example of these less educated handmedown ammart to compare the Shins with?

Pathompong Charoenwut.

Earlier this month, a well-educated Thai by the name of Pathonpong Charoenwut wrote this widely spread message in English on his Facebook page.http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691655-anti-govt-forces-have-a-new-bogeyman-the-western-media/

I think She is playing exactly the hand shes advised to, I also think that whatever people like to think about the Shins they are not stupid and are very well educated compared to a lot of the handmedown ammarts the contrast is striking.

Do you have an example of these less educated handmedown ammart to compare the Shins with?

Pathompong Charoenwut.