ianbaggie

What did we have under Abhisit's rule?

- Relations with neighboring countries at its worst, to the brink of war with Cambodia.

- Worst ever human rights record in Thailand's history.

- Highest debt in Thailand's history.

It can't get much worse. Just more crappy reporting by TheNation.

Ha ha ha ha ha - is that the best you can post??? :cheesy:

It's always difficult to make the blind see.

Or the deaf hear!!!!

Or the crippled walk!

Oh wait.

or those without fingers to feel those little smoothy furry thingies that insulate the inside of metal doors.

We all make erroneous assumptions. It's why there's so much disagreement on these boards.

No it isn't.

You said it was because he was a lepor - Yes he is!!

Even if that were true, and maybe it is from some angles, it still doesn't mean PTP = UDD.

Thaksin uses cars and he uses airplanes. According to you 'a car' = 'an airplane' just because both may help him get whatever it is you think he wants.

Funny to see the same people who a few years ago were saying PAD = Democrats with such certainty and on the basis of far more tenuous connections, now doing their damnedest to stress the differences between PTP and UDD.

I never said PAD = Democrats. You just made this up.

Just an educated guess based on your history of posts. Perhaps if i could be arsed to look back into your old posts from years back i might find sentiments along those exact lines. I suspect i would. But i can't.... be arsed that is.

So, if you say it's not true, and that you have never thought of the Dems and the yellows as being as good as one and the same, well then i'll accept your word.

Nice of you to accept you were wrong!! I also believe the \dems and the \yellows are not at a;; the same - you can look on my posts to check that too.......that is if you can be arsed!!

Pheu Thai Party, as the red-shirt movement is one of the two "legs" of the party.

Shock. Horror.

Is she saying "UDD = PTP"??

Shock. Horror what???

What the heck is wrong if UDD = PTP?? what have you got to say about PAD = NPP??

Swallow your critics mate and stop being anti-UDD

Im anti UDD too - got a problem with that MATE?? The fact is theyve constantly denied the link mentioned by the poster and people like you gloss over that fact by trying to post drivel - can you prove PAD = NPP because there is certainly proof now that UDD = PTP- By the way - how does one swallow a critic arent they rather large|?? Judging from your post above theyd probably fit easily into a mouth like yours!!

Last week while walking in Sukhothai, my wife, her mother and her father and sister were offered 500 baht to vote PT. They wanted to walk away but \i told them to take the money and vote democrat. this they did - stating that they had just seen the best reason for voting democrat. What Abhisit should have done was to change the boundaries reducing the importanbce of the north and northeast vote much as Mrs Thatcher did in her last election win. Problem is - democrats are too nice. But lets sit back and watch PTP fail in spectacular style in the next eight years economics will take care of the Shinawatra family, I have no doubt of that. Credit and inflation will do their work. But for now Thailand has the Government that 60% of its population deserve. I feel very sorry for the other 40% of Thais who arent blinded by a free tablet and a credit card!! Its started already - so bring on the corruption!!

When poor people selling second hand CD's on Bangkok streets have been given prison terms of up to 5 years... a PM rip the Country off for $BILLIONS get 5 years Prison,RUNS AWAY then constantly cause problems for the Country HE gets amnesty (it will happen just as He will be PM again) ...THE PLACE IS INSANE

I find this charade totally sickening but this shows Thailand exactly what it's morals and principles are, to elect someone with only 6 weeks political canvassing experience ;never been an MP –Phu yai bahn or Kamnan into the highest Government office of the land is beyond a joke.

The people of Thailand have been brainwashed they deserve all they get as this Government will end just as all the other Frankenstein Children of TRT have ended.

An Almost Trillionaire with NO experience of Government running one of the most promising economies in Asia..give me a break, it stinks as does Thaksin grinning on TV with his "el Diablo" hand gestures; this man is sick, a power hungry megalomaniac that will most probably sell his sisters soul just to get his snout back into the trough. These are the type of people who are destroying peoples lives thro greed and corruption.

The power of money…if you are planning to invest here be very very careful as the Nationalistic Xenophobes are back (for now)

Good I'm not alone in my thinking

That makes three of us then!!! Spot on Beam me up!!

THe methods used to prosecute or persecute these people - coup and politically motivated legal system - cannot be regarded as valid. THe majority of Thai people have voted against this and the situation needs to be set straight.

Because of the lack of separation of the legislative executive etc any legal rulings during the past 5 years really can't be worth the paper they are written on. Whether justified or not.

Many posters seem to think that so long as an action is in support of someone they agree with, it doesn't matter what that action is or was. Well it does matter as part of establishing a secure democracy, there needs to be both an independent judiciary and a de-politicised military.

Whether or not the intentions of this new government are genuine remains to be seen.

but one thing is sure is that Thaksin cannot remain in exile when the majority of the country want him back. Hopefully this time there will be an increased awareness by all sides of appropriate democratic procedures.

THe string of cynical partisan posts on TV does nothing but show how vacuous some members are.

You think substituting one 'politically motivated legal system' with another is a step forward? That things can be 'set straight' by overturning judicial decisions concerning a brother? Whose own lawyer was busted - by a JUDGE - trying to bribe court officials with a snack box full of money?

You have no clue about separation of powers, do not abuse this term any further.

Some will argue a coup is illegal and that the amnesty already granted coup leaders has a set the precedent. It is a powerful argument. So you either unfetter Thaksin or prosecute the coup leaders or you have to accept that seperation of powers is already compromised and therefore blatantly unfair. There is also an irony in discussing seperation of powers when a coup ( a fairly major and blatant breach of any democratic ideal) is the route of much of the trouble.

It is time to move on and amnestying everyone is easier and more even handed than selectively prosecuting or not and having different people let off, jailed, different jail terms etc

Very pragmatic and sensible.

More selective prosecutions will almost certainly lead to more civil strife.

Far better to wipe the slate and start again but that may let those who authorised the snipers to be let off the hook.

Do you mean the black shirt snipers that Hun Sen admitted to last week in Cambodias press?? Another one where red shirts lied all along!!

This is, like, sooo brilliant. I really didn't think this satire could get any more farcical, but the charade is far from over. Shakespeare himself couldn't have done a better job of inventing the absurd.

As long as we're all aware that the Yingluck Govt has a shelf life that expires shortly after Thaksin returns.

Yes it is brilliant. The former PM carries alot of clout in SE Asia, particularly in China. China has the ability to assist with multiple large scale development projects such as a modernization of the state railways and highways. China can also provide much needed foreign investment funds. He is also respected by some oil rich Gulf states, states that have the ability to ensure that Thailand has access to much needed oil and petro dollars for foreign investment. Once the Chinese are on board, the Koreans and Japanese will be falling over themselves while the USA wonders how it can best ingratiate itself with a strategic country. Not to forget that the Russians are arriving in droves. There's lots of oil wealth in Russia and it needs somewhere hospitable to go. The USA and EU are hardly the most stable economies are they?

The brilliant ones are those countries you mention, who will be sitting on the other side of the table, in the negotiation. The bargaining table is a great place, if both sides have something to contribute to the end result. Thaksin may be regarded as a entrepreneur by the Thai's, but I see no evidence of him ever getting one over on the counties you mention as potential business partners. I try to give credit where credit, in this case as successful as Thaksin was in raping the country (Thailand), how much did he or Thailand net from his forign agreements with non third world countries?

Exactly..............and therein lies the truth!!

This is like Dictatorship 101! with a minor in nepotism

What part of a majority election victory and the support of additional political parties do you not understand. The PTP has the mandate to act.

With a bought vote that only the North and Northeast subscribe to - based on lies and propaganda - we shouldnt confuse this with the landslide of democracy that Shinawatra has offered us to believe - by the way Hun Sen admitted in a Cambodian newspaper last week that the black shirts were "his team" try and see past the kindergarden politics Geriatric - youre a westerner after all - you should know better!!

This is, like, sooo brilliant. I really didn't think this satire could get any more farcical, but the charade is far from over. Shakespeare himself couldn't have done a better job of inventing the absurd.

As long as we're all aware that the Yingluck Govt has a shelf life that expires shortly after Thaksin returns.

Yes it is brilliant. The former PM carries alot of clout in SE Asia, particularly in China. China has the ability to assist with multiple large scale development projects such as a modernization of the state railways and highways. China can also provide much needed foreign investment funds. He is also respected by some oil rich Gulf states, states that have the ability to ensure that Thailand has access to much needed oil and petro dollars for foreign investment. Once the Chinese are on board, the Koreans and Japanese will be falling over themselves while the USA wonders how it can best ingratiate itself with a strategic country. Not to forget that the Russians are arriving in droves. There's lots of oil wealth in Russia and it needs somewhere hospitable to go. The USA and EU are hardly the most stable economies are they?

To anyone without morals or scruples |Im sure it is brilliant. To those of us with a sense of right and wrong its a shambles and a black day for Thailand. Why would China WANT to invest in Thailand - to grease palme - thats all Shinawatra has ever done. Can you provide some evidence of the USA and UKs lack of economic clout - heres a clue for you - use some of your time to look up which country is STILL the worlds biggest economy. China is 4th by the way!! The countries you list in your ramble are not stupid - they dont invest without return - what return do you think Thailand can supply? Youre dreaming - wake up and grow a set!!

"And what of the questions posed by the Red Shirt demonstrators who have been asking for justice over the 91 deaths.

I want to tell them that they are asking the wrong person."

Not me your honour! I was out of town/at a family BBQ/having my hair dyed/at the cinema .........

Maybe the same could be said of Thakin Shinawatra - to tell the truth I havent actually heard K Abhisit state that though - where as ........................................................!!

I'm not sure this is a good strategy that the PAD has chosen because it draws attention to an event that occurred "on his watch"

It would have been better if he would have invited a independent investigation by a impartial authority to put the cause and the blame on the real culprits. That ship has sailed. What is clear is that most of the deaths were on the protesters side and several occurred after the protesters had surrendered.

I think it's disingenuous to stand on the rule of law and the Thai Justice system when it is clear to international observers that the rule of law and respect for the constitution went out the window with the coup. Abhisit was the 5th PM to hold the position, but the second one to be appointed. The 3 who were elected by the people were tossed out using the "rule of law" that seems suspiciously tainted. This same rule of law convicted Thaksin so to suggest that the law is being applied evenly "to all Thai citizens" fails the smell test.

Where are thePAD involved here? Couldnt even find a refrence to them in he article!!

Abhisit does have the baggage that comes with working as PM in Thailand but would not appear to be a 'puppet'

Eh? He's been undermined by the military on a regular basis during his tenure.

Undermind ?? How??? evidence perhaps?? A least he wsnt removed from power by them though eh!!

Currently we have a "puppet" as PM being controlled from behind. Just think if Yingluck wins with absolutely NO experience at all in public life....

Food for thought..!!

Not sure what youre getting at here - do you mean if she wins we'll have another "puppet as PM beng controlled from behind" ? If you do Id say there will be far more manipulation from scenario 2. Let me explain. Thaksin is openly involved with PT nominations and camapign planning - there is enormous amountsof evidence of him doing this. He KNOWS that the Democrats have a perfect platforn to get the elction result nuliied as a banned plitician billionaire is clearly interfering where there is a legal precident that he should not. When the Democrats declare the result illegal the red shirts come onto the streets and a new protst a,most certainly more deadly ensues. Thus can it be argued that Thaksins REAL plan is to cause as much bloodshed, turmoil and death as he ca in the country which found him out and exiled him? I believe judging on his past character that that isexacly what he wants. Why else wld he be SO involved with something to the clear detrement of those he claims to represent?

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

You are right, there does need to be a proper inquiry, but the truth is, it actually won't make a jot of difference. Any inquiry conducted whilst the Dems are in government, that doesn't declare all these people innocent martyrs, will be dismissed as being biased and unfair by the reds.

Very pleased that you getting the point.

The fact is that innocents were killed and they deserve that their deaths be properly and impartially investigated and the perpetrators brought to law.

This would probably bring Reds, Government and Army to court and obviously that cannot be allowed to happen by the Dems but possibly a new Gov't might be able.

I think you weaken your opint with your bias here - the red shirts would no more want the truth to come out than the democrats would. Who is impartial enough to conduct this enquiry - any names you could put forward?

Ludicrous words from Yongyut, he seems to have forgotten the words of Chalerm who has proclaimed it is the party's intention to grant an amnesty to Thaksin.

Agreed. Totally astounding comments:

"May the Pheu Thai Party declare it never has a policy of amnesty. Neither party leader nor executive [members] ever talked about that. The remarks were by people who have no obligation to the party," Yongyuth said.

AND...

it comes on the heels of the incredulous claim by Yingluck yesterday.

She added that her brother, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra had nothing do to with the red-shirt group

Ahhhh, back to Thaksin's own feeble denials... "I don't know them"

The PTP must have a very low opinion of their constituents to feed them this much manure.

If the PT threaten to machine gun their supporters after the election they will still vote for them

If Thaksin comes back the hatred the other side feels for him will be far greater than the red shirts feel for Abhisit - How safe will Thaksin be from a snipers bullet - it will only take one. AND HE KNOWS IT!!!

I want to hear from some TV red shirts, I need some levity!

A Western diplomat in Bangkok suggested the campaign gathering was designed to woo wavering voters in the capital, where polls suggest the party's traditional strong voter base is ebbing.

He said there was "a real fear that middle-class Bangkok might be thinking about (Puea Thai) not being so bad after all."

Do we need to say more ?

I can confirm, all the democrats I know are now in full panic mode. I witnessed really hilarious situation, the good people of Bangkok are now bribing their servants to deliver the right vote. The enemies are at the gates

The enemies of Thailand of democracy and of fair free justice? The majority will vote PT?? Probably but that doesnt make it democracy when its bought with Thaksins stolen billions.

when Thaksin said he would bring back the war on drugs I think that was a threat, I can't imagine any other reason to say that being that it failed miserably and can only continue to do so based on the results of other countries that have tried it or are still "doing" it.

it did not fail miserably. At the time, organized crime syndicates had effectively established a defacto state in several of the provinces. The military, the police, the judiciary and the civil servants were in league with the drug cartels. The war on drugs was not so much against the drugs, but was an action to prevent Thailand beoming a Panama or Peru or Columbia. In that regard, the war on drugs was a success.Many of the people that died were casualties of the drug cartel feuds, either silencing people that would talk or settling scores. Others were indeeed hardened criminals. Some of the dead were innocent non implicated civilians that were either killed in error by the police and military or were intentionally murdered by the drug cartels to discredit the government's fight to keep the nation free of the drug cartels.

"It did not fail miserably......................Some of the dead were innocent". Where in your twisted mind does the death of innocent members of the population justify a successful operation? You are either one very sad Dude or perhaps you need to engage brain before you hit "Add Reply" button.

......or perhaps the poster is both

..... and if any mischief happens the Red shirts will get the blame.

Well, they are the ones Abhisit will be attacking in his speech, they are the ones opposed to this rally and they are one of the ones with a track history of violence, so it doesn't take a Sherlock to figure out that this is the group with the motive and the means.

That "track history of violence" a problem that is going to follow them. Once it's established, it's extremely difficult to have the perception changed.

It is the perception that other groups, not all that different from Red Shirts modus operandi and with a "track history" like the Ku Klux Klan, for example, face. Many incidents of violence committed with racial overtones are routinely attributed to the Klan, whether they are responsible or not. Similarly to the Red Shirts, when it is shown, since that perception has been established, that various incidents of racial violence are perpetrated by the Klan, the perception is reinforced.

So they're not Nazis anymore then, they're Klu Klux Klan now!!

both seems fair!!

She made some good points there....What Abhisit and his administering government couldn't do when in power is impossible for them to do if they are elected. He's indeed good at giving big words....Abhisit the "good words" talking machine..

But at least hes not a corrupt, lying, murdering theif eh - like her puppet master. Her facts are wrong anyway on everything from minimum wage to the murdered at the red shirt protest who everyone knows were 50% killed by black shirts anyway. More red lies, conspiracy and cover it looks like here.

What legacy will a wide margin of victory leave Mr. Abhisit? We can only imagine the flood of evidence that will come out once the Dems have lost their hold on the media, army, truth committees, etc.

I think all I can say to this poster is - "imagine' is the best way to describe it.

Makes you wonder if this isn't a tactic by Abhisit's puppetmaster to put him as a "sitting duck" at Ratchprasong. And when something happens, there will be another army coup. Strange theory, I know, but what if it happens? After all, he's already lost the election. What good is he now?

Who's Abhisits puppetmaster - go on weve named red shirts, PT and Yinglucks puppet master many times - we'll know by midnight tonight if you were right - but your conspiracy theories are proved FAR from the truth

SO a thinly veiled threat on honest, working Thai people attending a political rally!! Will it be abuse, physical attack? or a grenade?? Red Democracy at its bullying threatening back stabbing best!! If the Democrats said they fear a third party will attack red shirt rallies they would be criticised and rightly so. See you all there tonight?? If you re going to walk the walk on TV.com then lets help swell the numbers at least!! Wonder what the reply will be to this post from the red fraternity? "Were going to get you? " What a marvelous Governbment they will form!!