ianbaggie

Can someone please address the critcisms? What is wrong with what was said.? comment on the points made? not ramble on?

Better to ramble on than "Troll" methinks!! Do YOU have a point to make? Maybe add something that would blind us all thats to do with addressing the criticisms? No just Bak Maa at other posters?

It's true that Apisit has looked ridiculous at times in this election campaign, for instance when he planted rice, he thrust the rice stalk in with his fingers half way up the stem, any farmer knows your thumb should be against the stem to offer support and form a hole as you press it into the mud.

He's a Tong Lor-Oxford protege as they say!

But it's not important, the point is he has an excellent grasp of issues facing the country, something sorely lacking in Yinglak, and her refusal to join the P net debate this Friday only leads to more doubt as to her ability to be the PM of Thailand.

Yes - the refusal to join the debate shows her weakness in political argument and her inability in grasping anything but how to act as a link between her brother and his pandering to his terrorist puppets.

Standard Maoist play book move.

Blame you opponent with being out of touch with the poor.

Thilda is playing to type.

Sorry, so tell me,

How in touch multi-billionaire Yingluck is with the actual poor of Thailand?

In the OP its about bureaucrats vs. the people and not a rich vs. the poor argument.

From what play book comes that - to blame the opponent for something he never said?

The people, what you mean the people? The OP is about whoever against k. Thaksin. If k. Thaksin hadn't been mentioned I might believe this is about bureaucrats versus people. As it is, it's pure red propaganda in my eyes

*The people* as in the the point that is mentioned in the OP

a deep conflict between the bureaucratic polity (amatiyathipatai) and the people.

There is nothing about *the poor* vs. *the rich*.

Some people should made up their mind before starting their rants and blaming reds=PT=Thaksin for various things which includes at the same time:

a) being a Maoist

b ) being a Thaksin lover

c)being an anti democratic coup hater)

d) that Thaksin is amorally mega rich

Point d) is almost Maoist itself.

Staunch Anti-maoists seems to become Anti-capitalists and "Anti-rich" is case the rich capitalist is Thaksin.

And you are right, the OP is about a critique of Abhisit. So it must be pure and poor propaganda, red coloured.

Shooting the messengers from the handbook of those who want to construct the truth by themselves and alone rather then let to be the truth a product of the discourse.

Staunch Anti-maoists seems to become Anti-capitalists and "Anti-rich" is case the rich capitalist is Thaksin.

BUt thats because hes a greedy hypocrite and YOu are extremely naive at best - Id love to know who brainwashed you Samurai - your time would have been better spent at English classes. Or else reading something that might benefit you as a person or society.

What a joke.

This kind of statement coming form Thida/her son. I should not judge people by their appearance, but Thida looks out of touch with reality.

This statement coming from her son, written by a PR machine that gets millions from Thaksin.

Who is out of touch with the poor?

-Giving poeple credit cards who you know cannot pay back is not allowed in the western world. Thaksin gives the poorest people credit cards. They will never be able to pay back the money.

-Thaksin is a billionaire who never paid taxes. All these billions could have gone indirectly to the poor but Thaksin decided to keep the money inside his family.

Looks like PT is going bananas over 1 rally-1 day at the spot they have terrorised Bangkok for months.

Give me a break!!

Someone else who see things as they really are!! Red Democracy rules KO!!

Standard Maoist play book move.

Blame you opponent with being out of touch with the poor.

Thilda is playing to type.

Sorry, so tell me,

How in touch multi-billionaire Yingluck is with the actual poor of Thailand?

In the OP its about bureaucrats vs. the people and not a rich vs. the poor argument.

From what play book comes that - to blame the opponent for something he never said?

1) whats the OP?

2) Where does it state that its about beaurocrats - a link please

3) Whats a play book - is it a kids pop up Noddy annual?

40 What are you trying to say

5) Why dont you use proper English to say it?

Part quote from thida: "..............When Abhisit has to campaign and get in touch with the people following the crackdown, he confronts with the stark reality that the people are angry and demanding answers from him in connection with the last year's killings. ................"

Well that's the vewrsion that thida wants people to think.

YES - and the red reason the red shirts are ahead in the polls and will probably win the election is that this is the only voice being heard. The democrats are too nice. They should have matched the Pheu Thai "nasty blow for nasty blow" from the first time they came to Bangkok in 2009 and burnt buses in the road'. Mr Abhisits only fault is hes TOO lenient thats because the Democrats are civilised and have morals which many PT and red shirt leaders unfortunately seem to lack. Watch this space for the rally tonight in Rachaprasong and compare that to the civilised way the Democrats - both Government and supporters have behaved during red shirt rallies.

When Thaksin started the Pheu Thai and the red shirt movement (directly or indirectly) which was violent from its conception, the Democrats had a choice - civil war and confrontation or stand back and hope not too much happens. They chose to thyeir credit to stand back. Thaksin Shinawatra chose NOT to stand back from his mansion in Dubai and threw his minions into fully fledged aggresion at every opportunity.

The people are angry the red shirts cry - MAYBE the army was angry in 2006 - and maybe they will be again.

Standard Maoist play book move.

Blame you opponent with being out of touch with the poor.

Thilda is playing to type.

Sorry, so tell me,

How in touch multi-billionaire Yingluck is with the actual poor of Thailand?

I think Thida and I watched the same musical this week --- but took home different messages from it. (referring to Evita) Thaksin is so much more obviously "in touch" with the poor sitting in a mansion in Dubai

No.................Shinawatra Snr is still very much in touch with the poor at grass roots.............through the payments of 500 baht each from his bank account after each red shirt rally and attended Pheu Thai conference. He knows people can be bought VERY cheaply!! He also knows that his gain from the handouts to them will be magnified a billion times when his crimes are whitewashed at christmas.

They should have been doing this long ago. Letting the red shirts attempt to take some kind of moral high ground from their terrorist seizure of the city is ridiculous. Red Shirts deliberately set out to create as much bloodshed as possible, by launching terrorists attacks against the city from their barricaded and armed fort, until the army had no choice but to remove them. Reasoning that every government that engaged in conflict with protesters was overthrown, and the government would be forced to step down after the battle was over and the pawns were dead, paving the way for Thaksin to immediately return. Ridiculous that they have until now meekly let them use this as a propaganda vehicle.

Perfect, spot on post! Cheers for that one!

Yes........................that sums up how things really are!! Thaksin seems to have duped the electorate into seeing the Emperor in his clothes and at last the little boy has had "but hes in the altogether"!!

Thanks for making this distinction between the PTP and UDD. It's just another example of how the lazy, disingenuous and deliberately devisive formula trumpeted by the military cheerleaders: PTP = UDD = Thaksin is flawed and serves only to disrupt constructive debate by willfully ignoring the pertinent differences between these players.

You have done this thread a good turn, in my opinion.

Rubl (and you) are only partially correct. Since obviously running Jatuporn (PTP MP) and Natthuwut and Arisaman's wife and so many more red shirt leaders as party-list MP's, --- conclusively links the PTP and UDD together. That Thaksin is the controlling force behind both is obvious to anyone with even a smidgen of intellectual honesty.

Of course the PTP and UDD have links. Who said that they haven't? This does not mean that they are the same, does it? You keep going on about honesty whilst at the same time constantly peddling this lie.

You know exactly what you are doing. You simplify your analysis to exclude relevant details so you can come up with pithy-looking formulas to more easily convince others to think the same way as you. You are welcome to your crusade, but don't lecture others about intellectual honesty, please!

PTP = UDD = Thaksin is flawed

Seems some need the required lecture

If you dont agree maybe you giove examples and be a litle more specific of your criticism of the poster - it would help us all I think to decipher your comments!!

Thanks for making this distinction between the PTP and UDD. It's just another example of how the lazy, disingenuous and deliberately devisive formula trumpeted by the military cheerleaders: PTP = UDD = Thaksin is flawed and serves only to disrupt constructive debate by willfully ignoring the pertinent differences between these players.

You have done this thread a good turn, in my opinion.

How do explain the number of UDD leaders on the PTP party list? Tell me again about the pertinent differences in the players?

TH

There are some UDD leaders on the PTP party list. Others on the PTP party list have nothing to do with the UDD. This is one reason why the PTP is NOT the same as the UDD. Does this make sense to you?

Not when youadd in the fact that they are both puppet organisations of Thaksin Shinawatra.

I guess the Democrats rallying at Democracy Monument would have given very similar comments.

The Pheu Thai deputy leader Chat Kuldilok seems a bit naive for a politician to say "he was disappointed that the country's oldest political party would stoop down to discredit Pheu Thai".

As for 'hurting the feelings of the red shirts even more by choosing to rally where the crackdown happened', words slowly start to fail me

Did the PTP kill any protestors at Democracy monument? I don't think so. Democracy Monument was erected to commemorate the coup d'etat that established a constitutional monarchy. I am surprised you did not criticize the selection of the Democracy Monument on that basis.

The Democrat party holding a rally at the site of where some of its oppenents violently died is rubbing salt into a very open wound. The Democrat party can hold its rallies anywhere it is legally allowed to do so, but the selection of the site shows poor judgement and a lack of sensitivity.

You fail to provide once again ANY proof whasoever that the Democrats killed anyone. You assume that only red shirts and PTP are the victims when infact they were the provocative assailants according to many peoples beliefs and evidence. Why does a central section of the capital city belong to a group of people who deliberately camt to bangkok to incite a riot. Red shirts should stop believing they have an intrinsic right to put pressure on people to force what they want to happen. Only the very immature in their perception of events would follow this line of thinking and only those even more immature would support it.

If the immigration department were deployed with their airport metal detectors at all protest site entrances, the martydom count would have been zero.

But the red shirts would have rioted over the infringement on their rights and blamed the government - were learning a lesson about democracy im afraid

Reading the posts in many of the forums, it seems to me that pro-Thaksin supporters would merely like Thaksin to be back in power but do not vehemently attack Abhisit and co. However, the anti-Thaksin camp continuously attack him, his family and his siblings, bringing everything down to a very personal level.

So a question to the anti-Thaksin camp - what will you do IF Thaksin comes back to power? As a matter of principle, will you then be leaving the country in disgust (and returning to your respective countries of cleaner than white politicians with fair and democratic elections) rather than contribute further to Thailand's economy, which after all, will merely find it's way to Thaksin's pockets again?

I dont know which posts and threads youve read but Anti Thaksin supporters attack K Abhisit at every opportunity have a look at the thread on this site where Abhisit complains about bullying, or where Suthep says Thaksin will go to jail so the first point of your post is totally biased and innacurate.

But to answer the question you posed. Personally yes - I will move out of Thailand if Thaksin returns I couldnt stomach the wrongness of a population willing to accept corruption on such a scale.

However, let me ask you these questions - weve had a Democrat government for how long? Youre here still and obviously NOT happy about the job the current Government is doing why havent YOU left?? - or do you recommend double standards for Pro and anti red shirts leaving the country as well as everything else?

I dont know which posts and threads youve read but Anti Thaksin supporters attack K Abhisit at every opportunity - I presume you mean Thaksin supporters.

I am reading most of the posts relating to the upcoming elections and no doubt Thaksin supporters do attack K Abhisit as well, but not to the personal level of the attacks on Thaksin, Yingluck, his daughter and future son-in-law. If you insist, I can copy and paste the comments.

i am not sure how you conclude that I am not happy about the job the current Govt is doing - to the best of my knowledge, I have not made any negative comments about the Dem party. I haven't left (in fact, I intend and hope to stay here after my retirement, regardless of the governing party) because I love it here, the diversity, the culture and the relatively high standard of living.

If pushed, I would say that I am pro-Thaksin, but only because of the progress the rural NE has seen under his government. I said in another post that corruption and bribery and disregard for the law is common place here in Asia (as an Asian, I speak from personal experience) and is much more accepted than it is in the West.

A lot of posts are by people, and dare I say it, Americans, Brits, Europeans, Australians, New Zealanders, injecting their personal views and values and morals. However, this is Asia, where the values are different. The farmer, educated or not, does not really care who is in government or how corrupted they are, as long as the government does right by them - developing the area, providing schooling etc etc. Why else would Thaksin be so popular? Ideals of fair play, democratic elections, equality etc are luxuries that the West can enjoy. When you are slaving under the sun with water up to your knees day in day out, the main concern is a roof over your head, clothes on your back and food on your table.

First of all sorry i did mean Thaksin supporters not anti Thaksin supporters - sorry for that - I think however that you have to rememebr that to my knowledge there are no convictions for k Abhisit. He is not on the run for corrupt practices or terrorism and therefore one would not expect him to illicit the same replies and comments as a convicted man who has abused a position of trust. Who has numerous mureders (2700) on his hands from drug wars.and who in the eyes of many is soloely responsible for the disturbances in Bangkok last year - thats the first point. despite that - red supporters on this forum regularly state untrue facts and opinions about the coup and the Governments supposed involvement with the coup. I feel it would be totally untrue to dismiss these comments and state that Anti Thaksin supporters are the worst of the bunch.

Next - if you ARE happy with the job that the current Government is doing - why would you want to replace that with the unknown which, if elected will give Government positions to those who burnt, murdered and lied about it last year from the stage at Rachaprasong? I also love Thailand which is why I would like it to continue in the current style of Government rather than go backwards to what so apalled people in 2006 that there was a coup. there are many things I would like to print on TV.com but refrain from mentioning. I cannot however praise the events in the NE knowing that Robin Hood steals from the rich, gives 1% to the poor and sticks the rest in his maid and his drivers bank account,

You say people are wrong to give a western perspective and this is Asia - i think as a senior citizen i would respectfully remind you that there is right and there is wrong whatever culture you belong to. To deny that is to allow pwople to perpetrate crime on the basis of race. I think youve lived through or close to a very serious situation which arose becaus of that very thing. There are after all otehr ways to help poor farmers than to take advantage of them by getting them into debt and bringing them to bangkok to take part in potentially lethal rallies. K Abhisit sat down with a farmers union from isan last week and planned the raise in rice price with them to give them the maximum profit from their investments. K Thaksin would have given them a credit card which they have to pay back WITH interest unless Im werong and a PC tablet of the cheapest order in place of an education for their children. Thaksin is NOT the answer to Thailands problems. The day they turn against him and ditch him for their own freedom and democracy is the day i will join them in a red shirt on the stage.

Having said that even with a family, getting onto an airplane and leaving thailand is fairly easy.

Reading the posts in many of the forums, it seems to me that pro-Thaksin supporters would merely like Thaksin to be back in power but do not vehemently attack Abhisit and co. However, the anti-Thaksin camp continuously attack him, his family and his siblings, bringing everything down to a very personal level.

So a question to the anti-Thaksin camp - what will you do IF Thaksin comes back to power? As a matter of principle, will you then be leaving the country in disgust (and returning to your respective countries of cleaner than white politicians with fair and democratic elections) rather than contribute further to Thailand's economy, which after all, will merely find it's way to Thaksin's pockets again?

I dont know which posts and threads youve read but Anti Thaksin supporters attack K Abhisit at every opportunity have a look at the thread on this site where Abhisit complains about bullying, or where Suthep says Thaksin will go to jail so the first point of your post is totally biased and innacurate.

But to answer the question you posed. Personally yes - I will move out of Thailand if Thaksin returns I couldnt stomach the wrongness of a population willing to accept corruption on such a scale.

However, let me ask you these questions - weve had a Democrat government for how long? Youre here still and obviously NOT happy about the job the current Government is doing why havent YOU left?? - or do you recommend double standards for Pro and anti red shirts leaving the country as well as everything else?

The attack was by the red-shirts, and I fully believe that they were willing to kill their own supporters to keep the casualties in the right balance for the sympathy vote. The reds came armed with military weapons, prepared to kill to prove a political point. Don't preach pacifism if you support that.

Bold if unsubstantiated statement. if you truly believe that, then any rational discussion is a waste of time.

....................because that simple truth unsubstantiates ANY argument the red shirts have

... Why cant the red apologists see these simple facts??

Because they do not want to.

.................and there is none so blind as he who will not see...............??

Humans are emotional creatures which is why the reds held "schools" prior to the event to keep people nonviolent.

Dont suppose a link is possible here??

I'm not defending the reds. What happened is deplorable, but people are angry and fed up being denied any kind of democratic process that is fair. There is no defending the coup that tossed out Thaksin.

Personally - the whole reason i spend time posting on this forum is because I believe that there is. Khun Thaksin needed to be removed at the time - and any means were justifiable to do this.Coups are not strictly democratic processes now are they. However, consider this. If the German officers who planted bombs to kill hitler had succeeded would you hail them as "an undemocratic coup:. No, now all we need to do is to give you an idea of exactly what Thaksin did wrong during his time in power. Please stop thinking of the Pheu thai/Red shirt movement as a democratic group of freedom fighters trying to get rights for the poor masses - they're Thaksins paid private army put onto the streets with no other purpose than to act his will for 1000 baht a day. Why cant the red apoligists see these simple facts??

There were about 160,000 protesters and a few had weapons that Human Rights Watch believe were brought in later by the black shirts. If the intentions were towards violence than why bring women and children? Why wait 4 weeks to initiate it?

From the HRW report:

"Based on investigations conducted in Bangkok and in Thailand's central and northeastern regions from June 2010 to April 2011, this report provides the first full account of the violence and the reasons behind it. The high death toll and injuries resulted from excessive and unnecessary lethal force on the part of security forces, including firing of live ammunition at protesters, sometimes by snipers. Soldiers fatally shot at least four people, including a medic treating the wounded, in or near a temple in Bangkok on May 19, despite army claims to the contrary".

The violence was initiated by the army and the commander was killed after it started. I have participated in many demonstrations including some that were dispersed by police using tear gas, rubber bullets and a massive wall of police. You can bet that is this happened in the west there would be a independent investigation, but more importantly it never would have reached that level of violence. Guns would have never been allowed anywhere near the place. The army has 700,000 troops and I don't know how many police.

I completely agreed that even one loss of life is too many. I also agree that the reds defeated the purpose of the protest by allowing the black shirts and other to fight with weapons. Humans are emotional creatures which is why the reds held "schools" prior to the event to keep people nonviolent. Everyones emotions were aroused and both sides lost control of their people, that's what happens when these things get out of control. That's why government set up and control areas that contain protesters. That's why people are searched before they enter those ares. This is all security 101. The soldiers continued to kill people even after the reds surrendered. several protesters were unarmed when shot by snipers according to wittinesses.

None of the lives lost on either side were justifiable. Even after extensive interviews and review of what evidence is available nobody knows what happen for sure. That's why a independent investigation should be conducted. This government does not want that because they already know the truth.

I'm not defending the reds. What happened is deplorable, but people are angry and fed up being denied any kind of democratic process that is fair.

There is no defending the coup that tossed out Thaksin. Thailand claims to be a country that respects the rule of law, but the reality is another thing. There was a legal process for his removal and had the army chose that process none of this would be happening and we would be moving forward with progress. All of these events stem from the denial of the government to respect it's own constitution. The same constitution that was changed to subvert the democratic process.

Most of us come from democratic country's do you seriously believe that any of the governments actions would stand up in our own country?

Once again, you ignore the fact that the violence was initiated by the red shirts when they stormed parliament and Thaicom, before April 10. Before that, they pushed and prodded at every stage. The government let them protest. The government let them spread blood around. The government let them take a tour of Bangkok. They confronted the army stationed away from protest areas. The army backed off. The red shirts kept on pushing to get a reaction. Finally they got a reaction and they were ready with their armed militia with guns and grenades.

Where is it stated who started the violence on the evening of April 10? As far as I know, no one knows who started shooting. If weapons were brought in later by the black shirts, why did they have them there on April 10, during the start of the violence? Why did they bring in grenades? In the west, when a protest is dispersed, do the protesters respond by throwing grenades? How do you stop people bringing that into a protest area with out completely shutting down a large portion of the city?

You ask why the red shirts would bring women and children into the protest if they were planning violence? Can you point out where the women and children were on the evening of April 10? They were no where to be seen and after April 10 they were safely tucked away in the middle of the protest area in Ratchaprasong ... pretty much like human shields, don't you think? While on the outside of the protest areas, the army were being attacked well outside the tyre and bamboo barricades.

Have to rememebr that (not so) clever Thai man who put his 2 year old daughter on the pile of tyres...................now theres a poor red shirt being reasonable isnt it? Also the HRW report says "soldiers shot........" is this black shirt guard soldiers perhaps - like the ones who shot the nurse??

I don't think any political leader has the power to tell ALL the people what to do when it comes to politics. There will always be some groups that will act on their own.

There is a mistaken belief that Mme. Yingluck has supernatural powers and can command her supporters or sympathizers to do her bidding. I think not. There are also a great many angry people circulating in Thailand. Whether foreigners want to believe that or not is up to them, but in a nation of 60million+, the chances are that there will be a few hundred such people in any given region is quite probable.

Yesterday, several people were murdered in the south. The Democrats are an extremely popular party in the region. Does anyone suppose that if PM Abhisit asked these murderers to stop killing, that they would listen?

The fact of the matter is that heckling politicans is part of free speech and the political process. It will happen and short of a police state, which some people seem to want, nothing can be done to change the behaviour of such people at this time.

Oh................ so political leaders accept the fact that people operate outside the law in their country? Are these people above the law? can you give a link to this happening in the UK or the United States? Who thinks Yinglucj has supernatural powers? Is this llinked i suppose to the ghosts wandering round Rachprasong with red T shirts on? Personally id be happy if she had normal powers to put forward an argument.heckling is not the same as organised violent obstruction. "Nothing can be done to stop the behaviour of these people at this time"!! Certainly dismissing it as "I cant do anything about it" wont solve the problem. Maybe they would do it anyway but ......Might be worth a try eh?

Sorry, but that just shows a link to a page that talks about the perception index ---- you know --- the one not based upon fact and not comparable year on year. I don't see your stated number. When asked for facts to back something up I give them (unless I have stated it was my opinion)

Since you can't state that the % of GDP is real .... nor can you state that it has gotten better or worse by % of GDP ... it is simply garbage.

1) Lies

2) Goddam Lies

3) Statistics

(attributed to Disraeli --- but ... popularized by Twain) So far you haven't posted any facts that have proven accurate.

Any 5th grader can do the math. The widely published number for US corruption (britain is only slightly better) is that corruption accounts for12% of US GDP Since corruption inThailand is twice what it is in the US a simple ratio will produce the number I presented.

I'm asking. Why don't you provide the numbers that dispute them. Normally when someone disputes facts they provide their own. TI is widely used to compare corruption between countries and you will find it used in any major economic publication. Go to the Economist and search it.

Can you post a link to these "widely published" figures on corruption because I dont believe what you say if you dont !? How does your "ratio" have the slightest use in this question - its pure speculation. Canm you provide a link for your claims in "The Economist"?? oh!!...........thought not AGAIN!!

She can't control peoples passions because people are fed up with empty promises that have not produced any improvement in the disparity between the rich and the poor. The income gap in Thailand is a disgrace. If you compare the incomes of the top 5th of the population to the bottom 5th the numbers are some of the worse in the world and only slightly better than African countries with civil wars.

The gap in Sweeden and Japan is 3 to 5 times

Europe and North America is 5 to 8 times

Asian neighbors of THailand 7 to 12 times

Thailand 13 to 15 times.

The difference in wealth is 69 times.

Because of the Thai tax structure poor people pay almost twice the taxes as rich people do.

These figures come from a 2009 study and little if anything has changed.

People are angry. Most revolutions got their start from the inequities in taxes. Abhisit has done nothing to address this issue because he represents the wealthy. If he was interested he would have done something.

"Because of the Thai tax structure poor people pay almost twice the taxes as rich people do."

Please justify this statement, as it is it is ridiculous.

Are you talking about income tax - poor people don't pay any. But twice zero is zero, if you are referring to Thaksin's tax bill as an example of a rich person

are you talking about sales tax - not gathered on village staples. Does a poor person spend twice as much as a rich one?

are you talking about total income tax receipts - of a few million working class thais (with a real job) compared to a few thousand super-rich. Do you think it's unusual that the working class pay the majority of income tax?

Where is the link to the study so that we check your conclusion?

This information is everywhere, if you would like to dispute them than do your own research and provide your own numbers. The vat tax is 7% it is a regressive tax by any economic standard.

OzMick's deconstruction of your "facts" don't' allow for much of a rebuttal, imo. If you have an issue with his counterargument, make it. But the "Get your own facts" statement is polling badly.

VAT could be said to be a regressive tax since it COULD be argued that the 7% means more to a poor person than a rich one. However, how many countries have VAT? britain has a VAT rate of 17.5% So should we burn down london and occupy trafalgar Square for nearly 3 months? its OK trisailer dont apologise - we understand.

Another attempt by Abhisit to incite violence in the hope to discredit the PTP. This is desperation politics at it's ugliest.

I hope he explains why his forces continued to kill citizens long after they had surrendered within the walls of the Wat that was a agreed upon "safe area" and contained women and children.

I hope he reminds people that the protest was peaceful for 4 weeks before his troops attacked mostly unarmed citizens.

".........mostly unarmed citizens." Note, my emphasis.

So you now admit that weapons were brought to the rally by the "peaceful protesters." Finally we move closer to the truth.

As the military commander was killed by an M-79 grenade during the first dispersal effort, are you willing to admit that this was carried out by the red-shirts? And that they were both earlier and later sprayed around the city, killing at least one bystander (a red-shirt has confessed, if you find this difficult)?

He also confessed to firing RPG rounds at a fuel tank farm, and a hotel. Are RPG the sort of things brought to a peaceful protest?

Are the lives lost in these attacks justifiable to you to prove a political point? Is not "1 life lost one life too many!"?

Want to borrow a beer bottle to bang your head with? I don't drink out of cans.

Exactly.....................as the British legion says - "lest we forget" !!

Abhisit want to "inform people about last years bloody events" He just doesn't want to investigate them and find the truth. If he's so sure that it is all the reds fault why not allow an independent authority investigate them. If there had ALREADY been an independent investigation, and he was held without fault (as opposed to being charged with murder) he should welcome it.

If I were him I too would be scared if the PTP gets elected because one of the first things THEY will do is appoint an independent investigation and then maybe we will know the truth. Perhaps he then will be the one in exile from murder charges.

Who is STOPPING an independent authority from investigating? Can you provide proof of this? Can you post a link to this? When was Abhisit charged with murder? Can you provide proof of this? Can you post a link?

....................... let me ask you how can a future investigation be independent if it is appointed by the Pheu Thai party? The only ones on any sort of charge are red shirts and their leaders - all convicted on solid video evidence of insighting riots and arson and murder. Oh...........and your Robin Hood leader in self imposed exile and on terrorism charges.. Would you like me to paste links to substantiate these points? You really do need to think about what you post!!

I'm hoping that they will play footage of speeches from the red stage inciting hatred and violence - and there are plenty to choose from. Ever since the event, it has been red-shirt and PTP policy to rewrite history portraying themselves as innocent lambs slaughtered by the evil military. The red supporters on this forum have continually portrayed every death to the hands of the military when that is patently untrue.

We even have a couple of pacifist fools who delude themselves into believing that the facade of peaceful protest was real. You don't bring AK-47s, M-79s and molotov cocktails to a peaceful protest. 1 human life is 1 too many! but not if it is a conscript soldier doing his job, or a woman waiting for a train.

Stay away, or the ugly truth will smack you across the face and leave a red flush of shame.

..........................................and then they even have the cheek to claim all 92 (when its really 91) killed by the Government - when THEY killed half of them! "Please dont shout "Prove it, prove it" - the red shirt apologists should understand that its BORING to keep proving the same thing over and over, because a seemingly endless request for the same proof is the only thing they can throw back!

Nude planking photos? Never even heard of that. Someone post a link.

As far as the tourist? The is company pressing charges Right... an example must be made! What a load of crap. She made a mistake and offered to pay. A chewing out from the coppers along with payment for the damages is enough.

TheWalkingMan

If she was Thai thats exactly what shed get. Its the same mentalilty that charges a Thai 30 baht for noodle soup and a farang (me) 50 baht. What Thailand needs is a complete boycott on tourism for one year - then they might stop this two tier system which CERTAINLY would be allowed in western countries. You may have been convinced that their poverty SHOULD allow them to do it - personally after seven years here I cant accept it. Its rude, its insulting and its wrong. Off topic - not really - if youre going to discuss the tourist planking affair, you have to mention the reasons behind her treatment.