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ianbaggie
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Posts posted by ianbaggie
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In Australia, ranked as one of if not the most democratic of countries, it is not compulsory to vote. It is however, compulsory to attend a polling station, or arrange a postal vote.
What ranking? Who did that ranking?
This ranking by them! http://en.wikipedia....Democracy_Index Google is your friend!
Australia is not TOP 1 in that ranking.
The wikipedia entry on Compulsory voting has Australia on the list of countries that enforces compulsory voting
http://en.wikipedia....mpulsory_voting
Other countries from the Top in the Democracy Index don't have compulsory voting.
So compulsory or not says nothing about democracy.
"compulsory (compulsary) or not says nothing about democracy" - what a statement!! choosing whether or not you choose to vote is a democratic right - the obvious example is Britain where the parliamentary system used in many countries originated. There is no law that says you have to vote, there is no country that says you have to register to vote. You dont legally have to be on the "electoral roll" either. So your statement "so compulsory or not says nothing about democracy" is utter piffle - in despot, fascist countries there is MORE of a compulsary tendency to vote - excample of this - Iran.
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I dont understand why anyone would be proud of winning the last four elections when they've achieved it through threats, vote buying, bribery, corruption, assisted bribery and false law suits - no matter how poular with the poor of Isan he may be, hes achieved it through bribery and corruption - "but the people love him" is not a defence for Thaksin, it wouldnt see a convicted criminal get into power in the west, although the exception of Italy and its leader Berlesconi springs to mind, but current events there should serve as a reminder.People bought up in western culture should know this. If the fugutive returns, bribery, corruption and scandal will return with him and the few rich in bangkok will be left paying for the bribes through their taxes, just like the last time - remember this mans crimes before you shout "bring him back".
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You have posted this on two threads. I think that the quotations are quite apposite and am pleased that you appear to believe as I do, that irrespective of the result Thailand will still be ruled by a self-seeking and self perpetuating plutocracy, from whichever camp. But I cannot be sure that is what you meant.
1) The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.
- Lord Acton, The History of Freedom and Other Essays, Section III: Sir Erskine May's Democracy in Europe p. 76
There are many components absent from the Thai version of democracy. Not the least of these is the respect for individual rights. Think on how this relates to Thailands situation.
2) We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
- Louis Brandeis, U.S. Supreme Court Justice ~ quoted by Raymond Lonergan in, Mr. Justice Brandeis, Great American (1941), p. 42
Who provides wealth for Thailand if the rich elite do not? Could the rice farmers and those who sleep in their wooden houses with their Hang Song by their side do it - Or is this election all about whether Thais want the present dictatorship or Thgaksins dictatorship to return? If it is then i believe there is nothing for westerners to debate on this forum.
3) Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Widely attributed to Benjamin Franklin
Further evidence that there is a line of thought which says that there is more to democracy than mere numbers.
Ive actually posted it on three threads
. I was impressed by the way that two of these quotes show that the west has encountered and beaten the problems suffered by Thailand. Individual rights have to go hand in hand with Democracy as does adherence to the law. With that point made - can you explain why you think the posts are contradictory - I think that was what you meant by "apposite" -
very good article..................just about sums it up! without the army there will be no coups............without Thaksin there will be no need for the army to bring about coups. Of course the main point and the one that makes me personally anti thaksin is,,,,,,,,,Does one man have the right to control the masses by bribing poor people into voting for him? Thats the key question............The people dont want Thaksin they want his handouts!!! For him to manipulate the situation on that basis shows his devisive mentality and his despotism and his megalomania. Stay out of thailand Mr thaksin..........let the country find a government to help them..........not a single man to manipulate them.
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1) The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.
- Lord Acton, The History of Freedom and Other Essays, Section III: Sir Erskine May's Democracy in Europe p. 76
There are many components absent from the Thai version of democracy. Not the least of these is the respect for individual rights. Think on how this relates to Thailands situation.
2) We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
- Louis Brandeis, U.S. Supreme Court Justice ~ quoted by Raymond Lonergan in, Mr. Justice Brandeis, Great American (1941), p. 42
Who provides wealth for Thailand if the rich elite do not? Could the rice farmers and those who sleep in their wooden houses with their Hang Song by their side do it - Or is this election all about whether Thais want the present dictatorship or Thgaksins dictatorship to return? If it is then i believe there is nothing for westerners to debate on this forum.
3) Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Widely attributed to Benjamin Franklin
Further evidence that there is a line of thought which says that there is more to democracy than mere numbers.
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1) The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.
- Lord Acton, The History of Freedom and Other Essays, Section III: Sir Erskine May's Democracy in Europe p. 76
There are many components absent from the Thai version of democracy. Not the least of these is the respect for individual rights. Think on how this relates to Thailands situation.
2) We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
- Louis Brandeis, U.S. Supreme Court Justice ~ quoted by Raymond Lonergan in, Mr. Justice Brandeis, Great American (1941), p. 42
Who provides wealth for Thailand if the rich elite do not? Could the rice farmers and those who sleep in their wooden houses with their Hang Song by their side do it - Or is this election all about whether Thais want the present dictatorship or Thgaksins dictatorship to return? If it is then i believe there is nothing for westerners to debate on this forum.
3) Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Widely attributed to Benjamin Franklin
Further evidence that there is a line of thought which says that there is more to democracy than mere numbers.
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Do you have a vote Animatic?
Its called freedom of speech - part of democracy - he lives here - he pays into the system and he has human rights - if you choose not to support your own dont blame animatic for believing he is above the level of a street dog
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Being diplomatic, I think it's very poorly thought out and wholly inappropriate to be meeting with any military officials at this time..
Having said that - I actually share your view
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1) The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.
- Lord Acton, The History of Freedom and Other Essays, Section III: Sir Erskine May's Democracy in Europe p. 76
There are many components absent from the Thai version of democracy. Not the least of these is the respect for individual rights. Think on how this relates to Thailands situation.
2) We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
- Louis Brandeis, U.S. Supreme Court Justice ~ quoted by Raymond Lonergan in, Mr. Justice Brandeis, Great American (1941), p. 42
Who provides wealth for Thailand if the rich elite do not? Could the rice farmers and those who sleep in their wooden houses with their Hang Song by their side do it - Or is this election all about whether Thais want the present dictatorship or Thgaksins dictatorship to return? If it is then i believe there is nothing for westerners to debate on this forum.
3) Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Widely attributed to Benjamin Franklin
Further evidence that there is a line of thought which says that there is more to democracy than mere numbers.
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It is the party which is trying to seek amnesty for all politicians not only for Thaksin
Yeah what chuang and I said.
fair enough. Same question. What other politicians besides Thaksin are up for amnesty and what charges are they facing that will be dismissed?
I dont know who they all are but maby with your background in pasting quotes and pictures all over the TVF you may be able to enlighten us to who they all are.
I cant wait for the words of wisdom to come forth.
I feel his pasting quotes is preferable to YOUR ignorance and lack of information.
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The military just threw a press conference a few days ago to address this very issue, saying that this exact thing would be inappropriate. Did this simple instruction not register? Does she not care about the in propriety or even the appearance of in propriety during this election or was she just following orders?
Am I missing something here? The leader of the main opposition party and potential future Prime Minister seeks a meeting with General Prayuth, and that is controversial?
Why would she need to seek a meeting with him during an election? Shame she cant share her thirst and demand for debate with Mr Abhisit live on TV!! "What will she say to him? "ill get my big brother onto you if you dont start liking me!!"
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dont be a drama queen.
something tells me you will have trouble accepting the will of the people.
hope you have started packing your bags...
I really enjoy your contribution on this forum.
I have a minor challenge for you, as this is not yet clear to me.
Why are you so supportive of miss Yingluck. What is it in her, or her policies that attract you so much?
Do you dare to reply?
you've missed the point
its not miss Yingluck I support, its the Thai people and their right for self determination that I support.
Posted 2011-06-02 17:28:48
caribbeanman, on 2011-05-31 13:21:17, said:she's very smart, i think that abhisit is the one who needs a debate ,not she, abhisit needs to increse his popularity while yingluck is becoming more and more popular among the voters, and what is even more dangerous to abhisit, the popularity of yingluck is going up among the residents of BKK.
bungalownights -
one of the few intelligent posts on this thread so far. OK so now weve dismissed your lie can we get back to the original question that he asked you?
Why are you so supportive of Yingluck and what policies does she have that attract you?? please dont side step any more bugalow!!
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Bungalow - I know you love the red shirts but to use the same subversive bullying and intindation that they use on an expat internet forum is very council house!!!!
Please for once in your life try and post a sensible coherent argument and instead of bullying and flaming, try and respect other peoples views - not even Shinawatra shows the same disrespect that YOU do!!!!!!!
On viewing the posts on this and similar threads it would seem to me that 8 out of 10 (80%) of posters are anti Thaksin and the red shirts, some vehemently, so calling him a liar, cheat, murderer, thief and the red shirts a bunch of thugs, murderous hooligans, and so on and so on.
I just wonder what would happen should Thaksin come back under amnesty or whatever. What would be the attitude of the posters then should he regain power? I'm sure that forums such as these are monitored by all parties. Would those that are so vociferous now change their point of view, pull in their horns, crawl into the woodwork, would the moderators have to amend the rules as with other unmentionable subjects if they should come under pressure from a Thaksin led government? Bears thinking about.
Bears thinking about - grrrowwwwllll!! Personally i wouldnt change my opinion of Thaksin - and its strange that you think we should fear anything rom the one whose lips so often carry the word "democracy". But could it be that the red shirt fraternity KNOW full well that hes' a murdering dictator just like they know who fired the M79 grenades in Sillom and who killed the Japanese reporter??
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and many would ask........................where is the money going to come from.............the PTP has no phiscal policy...................EXCEPT as Thaksin did - take the money from the taxes of Bangkok business owners- which increases costs to business and sends the whole system crashing down - thus requiring the army to take over before the country goes into economic meltdown - voila - a justified need for a coup!!!!!!!!!! please try and understand this point - to save pointless posting,.
Your position is based upon the assumption that the Bangkok business owners are actually paying their taxes and that the taxes levied are equitable.
The proposal of 15,000 baht is akin to that of minimum wage. The current wages paid to employees are inequitable. There would be no need for intervention if employers behaved in a responsible manner.
Many employers in the service industry churn their workers, getting rid of employees before they qualify for better benefits such as additional vacation days, health benefits or severance protection. Perhaps now, some employers will not be so quick to change over staff. I can think of the names of some large service sector companies that engage in this practice on Phuket. None of the operators are foreign though.
I don't know about the rest of Thailand, but Phuket's employers discourage employees for taking continuing education. There is no time off to allow students to attend the university classes held on Saturdays and Sundays. If employers were less greedy and stupid, I would be more sympathetic.
BTW, didn't you claim to be a professor or instructor at a university? If so, I sincerely hope that you do not write in this fashion when preparing your lectures. Horrid syntax, and the spelling, my goodness. Fiscal Policy, not phiscal policy.
Can you provide us with evidence that Bangkok business owners do not provide tax funding for Thailand. I ask you again - where will the funding for this scheme come from? Since you are incapable of providing a simple mathematical analysis of the problem can you tell me - 500,000 students come out of Thai universities every year
15,000 X 500,000 = 7,500,000,000 baht (thats 7.5 billion), wages in a free economy are allowed to float and based on supply and demand. Thai companies like every other country in the world have to compete with low wage economies - this makes them uncompetitive if they pay higher wages and give the benefits which youre suggesting - I dont know many western companies which offer the same extra non financial benefits which you naively seem to suggest.
Perhaps you could link us to and name the companies which engage in the [prcatices you mention?? Also youre post suggests workers work 7 days a week without a day off?? Again a very strange claim to make. Thailand has very few major employers only one in 1230 businesses (source: business world Asia) has more than 5 employees - Id say these businesses have different ground rules wouldnt you?
No I didnt claim to be a professor at University - something else you might like to get facts straight about!! Thank you for the gramatical analysis and spell check - I bet you inspect the tv for dust while your wife stands to attention too dont you? I can recommend a book on cost analysis if youd like me to!! Might save you from embarrasing yourself.
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What everyone knows, but chooses to forget or ignore, is the pressure from outside parliament, by the military, elite, PAD, & ...., was the reason for other parties siding with the Dems, not at all that they wanted too. Bleat all you want, but the people know this. Never elected never respected.
Not to mention that there is not another democracy in the modern world where a coalition is led by the party that has substantially less seats in parliament.
you have been here beating the same drum before, you were wrong then and you are wrong now
you have been told before by a Swedish citizen that the minor party leading a coalition is a situation that exists in Sweden
unless having read the rebuke before you have now amended the statement you made and twisted it to suit you, so so that you can claim later that Sweden is not a democracy or is not a part of the modern world..........?
Swedish election, both leading parties got between 30-31% of vote. If you take the time (keeper) to read my post i said "hat has substantially less seats in parliament."
............so in fact now you admit they had less seats??? Oh dear - if the argumnent doesnt fit first twist it then deny it!!!!!!!!! true democracy red shirt style
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dont be a drama queen.
something tells me you will have trouble accepting the will of the people.
hope you have started packing your bags...
I really enjoy your contribution on this forum.
I have a minor challenge for you, as this is not yet clear to me.
Why are you so supportive of miss Yingluck. What is it in her, or her policies that attract you so much?
Do you dare to reply?
Its the fact that he can use her to try and troll and flame other users of this forum - get them to bite - and get into trouble - he doesnt understand the first thing about the red shirts just that theres a name out there called Yingluck and people dont like it - so wind them up with it!!!
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Bungalow - I know you love the red shirts but to use the same subversive bullying and intindation that they use on an expat internet forum is very council house!!!!
Please for once in your life try and post a sensible coherent argument and instead of bullying and flaming, try and respect other peoples views - not even Shinawatra shows the same disrespect that YOU do!!!!!!!
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...and neither with the support of the majority of the Thai people.
I think perhaps you lack the proper understanding how a parliamentary democracy works.
What country are you from?
I very well understand how a parliamentary election works. I was simply stating a fact. Samak had nearly 5 million more votes than Abhisit.
[/quote
can you list a source for that?? As he said the PARLIAMENTARY PROCESS allows Parliament to operate a first past the post majority system which Abhisit won - Neill Kinnock had 7 million more votes than Thatcher in 1984 but lost the election - another red shirt refusing to see the truth today!!!!!!!!
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Well you all say that Thaksin is/was corrupt but now look at what this democratic (Abhisit) party is doing. Now that it is getting closer to election time and they/he sees that PTP is closer to winning and Yingluk stands a chance in winning they are just using all the "you blame me, I blame you" strategy. The "my dad's bigger then your dad" strategy should not be another political strategy.
Why doesn't the Democrat party just stick with there campaign and leave the past out of it? If they think they can win fairly then just stop all the whining and let the Thai people decide.
Where is this idiots hard proof that Yingluk is seeking amnesty for her brother? Let the election happen and let the people decide who their next PM will be and just move ahead for god sakes.
her own mouth maybe?
When red shirts stop whining maybe Democrats will when they stop trying to bring back a deposed criminal maybe the democrats will get on with the election. Another problem down to the Shinawatra family!!! -
" file charges .... for attempting to seek amnesty "
Someone is challenging his judgement and should be immediately prosecuted ...
But who the hell this guy think he is ?
Listen to the red shirts on this forum blub when someone attacks them!!!!!!!! Worth coming here just to see them rise to it every day!!!!!!!!Do you have the same problem when the red shirts want to prosecute people in connection with the airport takeover,,,,,,,,,,,no didnt think you did. <snip>
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It is pretty much a tried and tested MO for capaigners the world over. When it comes to policies you keep your trap shut until the last possible moment. Aussie pollies are experts at this.
In Yinlucks case, she claims her business sense comes from years of "training" from her brother. Indeed if she has been listening to him for that long she would be well aware of "foot in mouth" syndrome and know its best to shut up for as long as possible.
Quite the contrary, the electorates of many countries expect their potential governments to set out their policies at the START of the election and defend them - certainly British and American electorates expect what basis to give their vote on. How can you vote for someone when you dont know what youre voting for?
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Disgusting - Just proves there are no limits that Pheu Thai and red shirts wont sink to - true democracy THAKSIN STYLE!!!!!
Where in the article does it refer to Peua Thai or the red-shirts?
Oh did the Democrats start beating themselves up? i suppose they set fire to central world too?
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"Well, bad luck, do you think she or Thaksin give a dam_n about you."
and there you have it folks - a truth from your friendly neighbourhood red shirt mouthpiece...................democracy at its best - alongside a caring - help all red policy
as long as the bangkok elite foot the bill - just get us into power!!!!!!!!!!1 -
How long can she hide from the big tough issues?
Most likely just as long as PM Abhisit and the Dems can
You may not have noticed but PM Abhisit and the dems as you call them HAVE been running the country and have proved they can deal with all Thailands problems - including exile enforced terrorism - Yingluck- if she wasnt just a puppet to bring back her brother I might be worried about her running the country
. I was impressed by the way that two of these quotes show that the west has encountered and beaten the problems suffered by Thailand. Individual rights have to go hand in hand with Democracy as does adherence to the law. With that point made - can you explain why you think the posts are contradictory - I think that was what you meant by "apposite"
one of the few intelligent posts on this thread so far. 
as long as the bangkok elite foot the bill - just get us into power!!!!!!!!!!1
Poll Watchdog Raises Thai Vote-Buying Fears
in Thailand News
Posted
By accepting anything you condone it. Thailand is noticeably more corrupt than any other of the 35 countries Ive visited, including Saudi and Egypt. Ive never been stopped and asked for money by a policeman blatantly in the open before - not even in Mexico. You dont need to ask for pasted quotes for this one - you need to open your eyes and accept what you see!!