Thanet

Rubl,

I don't think it is a surprise at all, i just find the whole thing a little bit hypocritical. There are obviously differences between TS amnesty and the proposed one in the interim const, but in both cases, the laws of the land have been broken, yet in one case it is okay for an amnesty (there is no choice anyway), and the other it is not.

It seems all very subjective and on a whim so to speak regarding what is okay in one case, and what is okay in another case.

I think the important thing that you seem to be ignoring is the vast difference between the two amnesties.

One amnesty is to clear the Junta from prosecution for removing a very corrupt government for the good of the country and to stop the insane murders and possibility of a civil war... the other amnesty would have absolved political terrorists and cleared out more than 25,000 cases of corruption for the benefit of only one man, and was actually the spark that ignited the recent crisis in the first place.

Keep it real please.

You talk about reality. Now there's an interesting thought.

Given that the media is censored by just one side, how do you know all these accusations are true? For all we know, all this could be propaganda.

How do we know what's real, and what isn't?

Ask the Thai, they live here, they've known all along.

You make me smile with your assumptions based on a whole lot of nothingness. How do you know whether I'm Thai or not?

Thanks for the replies. Does anyone know if immigration actually check the Thai id against the passport when entering and leaving thailand?

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They only check the passport. I once had an officer ask me for my ID card as well, but I am a white Thai citizen so I think he was just curious.

Thais change their names all the time, but their citizen ID number never changes. This is on both the ID card and the passport so should clear any confusion even if they did ask her for her ID card.

Also, if she has an e-passport she can use the automatic gates at the airport. It's what I always do and means that she doesn't need to speak to an officer at all.

Rubl,

I don't think it is a surprise at all, i just find the whole thing a little bit hypocritical. There are obviously differences between TS amnesty and the proposed one in the interim const, but in both cases, the laws of the land have been broken, yet in one case it is okay for an amnesty (there is no choice anyway), and the other it is not.

It seems all very subjective and on a whim so to speak regarding what is okay in one case, and what is okay in another case.

I think the important thing that you seem to be ignoring is the vast difference between the two amnesties.

One amnesty is to clear the Junta from prosecution for removing a very corrupt government for the good of the country and to stop the insane murders and possibility of a civil war... the other amnesty would have absolved political terrorists and cleared out more than 25,000 cases of corruption for the benefit of only one man, and was actually the spark that ignited the recent crisis in the first place.

Keep it real please.

You talk about reality. Now there's an interesting thought.

Given that the media is censored by just one side, how do you know all these accusations are true? For all we know, all this could be propaganda.

How do we know what's real, and what isn't?

Wasn't a proposed amnesty for the other side the whole reason why the anti-government lot took to the streets in the first place?

I'm not sure how this amnesty for themselves, while prosecuting cases against all opposition, will buttress the NCPO's stated cause of reconciliation.

The junta would earn itself a great deal of (much needed) credibility by remaining perfectly neutral in the eyes of both sides.

'judicial system not directly under the control of the government' seems to fluently move into 'here's it's different under martial law'. You mean you recognise the 'current' government as such?

Anyway where did it say the judicial system reports directly to the junta or even the NCPO?

You still ask for irrefutable evidence, did you also ask that when previous governments had the judiciary accuse k. Jatupob? When Jakrapob was dropped by PM Somchai? What about Jonathan Head quoting Jakrapob in 2009 with

"Speaking to the BBC from in hiding, he said the movement would use different tactics to confront the government, including possible armed attacks"

Just empty talk as to be expected from a peaceful UDD founder?

I think that you are trying to deflect the argument from your weak reasoning by resorting to mere semantics. I don't refute that the NCPO is a government, albeit an authoritarian and unelected one, rather than a democratic one that is accountable to the Thai electorate.

As to who controls the judiciary, when the NCPO took over, it invoked total control by declaring under the barrel of the gun that all the branches of government, including the judiciary, were under its command. The NCPO has the power to court martial civilians if it so pleases, without legal representation. How's does this fit in with your concept of fair process, or perhaps you don't have one? If you don't have one, then that's fine, but please be truthful about it rather than trying to say one thing is another, when clearly it's not.

Lamentably, both sides have made comments relating to civil war, armed conflict and the like to their supporters. Indeed, Suthep's guards were armed too, with war weapons being found in abandoned PDRC sites. The PDRC was exhorting its supporters to fight with whatever means. The fact that only one side is being targeted over arms charges now, at this point in time, would further indicate that returning from exile is a one way ticket into the slammer.

Expecting people to come home to a fair trial is unreasonable.

He doesn't necessarily have to be in physical possession of the war weapons in Thailand. As for the when and where :

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung said yesterday the recent arrest of eight people responsible for war weapons seized in Wangnoi in Ayutthaya had found that Jakrapob was involved

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Junta-revokes-passports-Charupong-Jakrapob/31009

Most countries would consider charges like this to be politically motivated

Most countries wouldn't consider the sort of war weapons confiscated in Ayutthaya as a political crime.

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

Totally agree, where is the evidence linking Jakrapob. Just because he's a fugitive from Thai law since 2009 doesn't mean he's a criminal.

Mind you, in lots of countries we seem to have to believe the police at first as finer details are saved for the court case. Once a chap has been present to hear the charges his legal representative can even demand to get information on those finer details. Now if only k. Jakrapob could come back for a moment

Agreed we believe the police, coming from countries that have a judicial system that is not directly under the control of the government.

Here it's different under martial law, and it's unreasonable to expect anybody to voluntarily come back to a fair hearing. The judicial system now reports directly to the junta, and in doing so has lost the independence necessary to make an impartial judgement. There is also the probability that the police, also reporting to the junta, would likely put forward circumstantial evidence, which would nonetheless result in a conviction, so as to keep their jobs.

Faced with such loaded odds, you wouldn't go back either, I suspect. In a backdrop of no transparency whatsoever, whom can we believe?

Some irrefutable real evidence would at least show us that they are sincere, and that this is not just a political ruse to shut up the opposition.

It's too complicated, and if you marry her then he will be a pain in the arse for ever.

Move on - you'll never win against the in-laws.

Read the post again, he is married already !!

OP, take him round the back of the house and pop in on the nose. No-one loses face if nobody sees it. Help him up, shake his hand and then run for cover

Whoops - you are right.

My apologies (and condolences) to the OP.

You call your thinking rational, but it seems to have no basis in established fact.

Thailand thinks of itself as a civilised society. As such, people are considered innocent until evidence (rather than hearsay) proves them guilty of a crime.

The court has upheld the fact that no evidence was presented to uphold the serious accusations that were made against this guy. In any civilised society, there are legal sanctions in place to control baseless accusations that are intended to defame the reputation of any person. This seems to be what the court has concluded in its findings against Methee.

It would be unjust of us to say that Jatuporn in guilty unless evidence proves it.

"As such, people are considered innocent until evidence (rather than hearsay) proves them guilty of a crime."

But when they are proven guilty of a crime, you claim that the charges were politically motivated. If they are of the correct political persuasion, of course.

Quite simple really. The guy making all the allegations should have backed them up with evidence. Then, he would have shown the court that the defamation charges against him bore no weight. After all, you can't defame people for things that are true, can you?

He was willing to get a jail sentence for what? If his story was true, then why on earth didn't he prove it, saving himself a jail sentence and making him a hero in the process by bringing down Jatuporn?

Don't you think that Methee is very odd, preferring to go to jail than to prove his defamation accusation?

Why don't they make every day in the year a holiday?

People might vote for their preferred candidates then.

It's too complicated, and if you marry her then he will be a pain in the arse for ever.

Move on - you'll never win against the in-laws.

Same reason they walk slowly - it's bloody hot and they don't like to be seen sweating.

Cyclist in Bangkok are a brave lot - suicidal even.

Presumably that "freedom of speech" doesn't extend to:

OP:

illegal possession of war weapons

Hmmm - possession of war weapons when and where? Jakrapob was last here in 2009? Why wasn't he charged back then?

He doesn't necessarily have to be in physical possession of the war weapons in Thailand. As for the when and where :

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung said yesterday the recent arrest of eight people responsible for war weapons seized in Wangnoi in Ayutthaya had found that Jakrapob was involved

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Junta-revokes-passports-Charupong-Jakrapob/31009

Most countries would consider charges like this to be politically motivated

Most countries wouldn't consider the sort of war weapons confiscated in Ayutthaya as a political crime.

Looks convincing, the generals made it so, but we onlookers still can't see what links Jakrapob to this. Just that the police chief had "found that Jakropob was involved". Maybe the chief was thinking more of his pension, given that the events of the last few weeks show us that police chiefs who don't fall in line with the junta's bidding don't last long.

Call me a cynic if you will, but some solid evidence linking Jakrapob to this pile of weapons, rather than just a load of hearsay, would be needed to convince the outside world that he is not yet another victim of repression. This, given the timing of these allegations, and the political interests of the people who made them.

Related to this overreaching of the Junta beyond Thailand's borders, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office just put out this statement, through the British Embassy in Bangkok:

"The UK is committed to freedom of speech and defends the right of individuals to express their views without the threat of intimidation or harassment. We have discussed with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok and the Thai Embassy in London. We have made clear that we will not tolerate attempts to enforce Thai military decrees in the UK that are aimed at preventing freedom of expression."

Presumably that "freedom of speech" doesn't extend to:

OP:

illegal possession of war weapons

Hmmm - possession of war weapons when and where? Jakrapob was last here in 2009? Why wasn't he charged back then?

Most countries would consider charges like this to be politically motivated, given the impeccably convenient timing, to be politically motivated.

As an aside, it's ironic that Thailand, with all its freedoms, used to be a place to run to and flee persecution for dissidents and various other groups from neighbouring countries. Now people are heading in the opposite direction.

How times have changed.

Having frightened the foreign workers off with populist jingoism, they now want them back again?

Hey, the okey cokie .... in, out, in, out, the generals shake it all about ...

Did I miss in the OP where it said that Jatuporn must pay back this 68 million baht that he embezzled? It's a mad old world when talking about some stealing scrote is worse than the thief thieving.

So where is the evidence then? Are you a detective? Do you know for sure that he embezzled the money?

Wow. I did not think any TVF members would have believed Jatuporns whole wheels fell off the lorry just outside my front door so I became wealthy beyond my wildest dreams as the lorry contained priceless artifacts and amulets.

You clearly do believe him. I, and any rational thinkers, find his whole story far fetched fantasy. Why did he make up such a silly story about how he became so rich, because the money was proceeds of dubious activity(to put it mildly).

You call your thinking rational, but it seems to have no basis in established fact.

Thailand thinks of itself as a civilised society. As such, people are considered innocent until evidence (rather than hearsay) proves them guilty of a crime.

The court has upheld the fact that no evidence was presented to uphold the serious accusations that were made against this guy. In any civilised society, there are legal sanctions in place to control baseless accusations that are intended to defame the reputation of any person. This seems to be what the court has concluded in its findings against Methee.

It would be unjust of us to say that Jatuporn in guilty unless evidence proves it.

Did I miss in the OP where it said that Jatuporn must pay back this 68 million baht that he embezzled? It's a mad old world when talking about some stealing scrote is worse than the thief thieving.

So where is the evidence then? Are you a detective? Do you know for sure that he embezzled the money?

Jesus ....

As others have said here, get your wife to file a police report, then keep a diary of any further problems with him. Your wife should also change her number.

The guy is only a postman, and he sounds like he is a flat broke alcoholic - not much he can do, and if the cops have a word with him he'll go and bother someone else.

It's not easy for them to make money. That's why they will turn down certain locations at certain times. If they waste all day stuck in traffic they can actually end up losing money for the day.

Agreed. They are underpaid, really. Since the introduction of meters in 1992, there has been just one fare increase, while the cost of living has multiplied.

I often curse about them for refusing fares, but can't really blame them.

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The guy who vowed that when he took over the country he would never be P.M. Why not let the people choose a P.M instead of making yourself the supreme leader.

It seems he IS the people's choice to be the next PM.

With a nationwide turnout of almost 99% Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un was not only elected to the highest legislative body in North Korea, he won with the unanimous approval of his district, which had 100 per cent turnout. Voters had only one candidate's name on the ballot for each district and they had the choice of voting yes or no. Will Thailand follow the path of TRUE democracy as did North Korea? Yes or no.

The DPRK has 3 parties.

Really? Are all of them still functioning as parties?

Three parties would be the ruling party, the gulag party and the executed party?

"in the end, nothing got done," he said.

At least they admit that the Dems did nothing after they get the power from the army.

You must have failed history in High School as everyone knows the People's Power Party, a Thaksin puppet government, won the first election (held a year after the coup) after the military appointed government of retired general Surayud stepped aside in 2007.

Revisionist, much?

Perfectly true. They won the election, as they always do, only to be swept aside by the courts in favour of more 'preferred' people, i.e., the Dems.

Still at the revisionist level, I see. A bit of cooking and some election fraud swept aside by courts must be wrong as it effected the party of the big boss in Dubai. MP's elect Abhisit as PM, but that's wrong, MPs election Samak/Somchai is right.

There's nothing wrong with critically examining past events, as is meant by the word 'revisionism'. Indeed, such practice is an integral part of debate.

'Negationism', or distortion of past events, describes your assertion that Abhisit's appointment was legitimate as far as the opinion of the general public was concerned. If it were, then why on earth did his party get so decisively defenestrated when he eventually had to call a general election? Why wasn't he re-elected?

Poor tv red shirts - loving every minute of their crocodile tears. While they get off to pictures of their patron high lord of corruption and nepotism - Thaksin

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Corruption, corruption, corruption - how awful it is I couldn't agree more.

But ... the latest PT government just had their assets checked, and were found to be not unusually richer after their term in office. Some were poorer. Even Yingluck herself gained financially only from the appreciation in the value of stocks that she already held. Capital gains - nothing illegal or corrupt there ....

Regardless, they were kicked out by the army on the basis of corruption - all sounds a bit like the fabled WMD in Iraq - a pretext to invade.

So where is this corruption smoking gun that all the propaganda keeps talking about? I've got it - corruption in Thailand didn't exist before Thaksin's lot, so they must have invented it, right?

Looks more like a bunch of sore losers who can't win democratic election usurping a civilian government under the barrel of a gun. Or it's a double standard, as they are all corrupt, right?

Lets wait for the real corruption examinations. However stupid the members of the PTP are did you really expect them to put their ill gains on their bank account in their own name ? That would really earn them the name of red buffalo and however stupid some of them are nobody is that stupid.

This was just an examination of how much money they had under their name nothing more nothing less. Let us all wait and see what happens it takes time to dig up all the corruption and I bet paper shredders were doing overtime the last weeks of the PTP administration.

Thank you for clarifying that.

So there is no solid evidence to substantiate the corruption allegations then. Just hearsay, or even fabrication, on what they may (or may not have) done?

Quite right. He's certainly done a lot of talking, via media outlets that have to report his every word and no other. That's a good job, right?

Let me guess? You want Thaksin back right? Credibility rating 0.

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As I replied to you before, I think Thaksin is a lowlife piece of excrement so why would I want him back?

Why do people throw up thaksin and accuse people of being a Thaksin lover. The old you love Thaksin, end of discussion I win haha ha

Accusing you of loving Thaksin is a convenient way of telling you to shut up - one that requires little thought or reasoning.

No shades of grey here mate - just black and white. You are either on one side, or the other. No room for middle ground, I'm afraid.

"in the end, nothing got done," he said.

At least they admit that the Dems did nothing after they get the power from the army.

You must have failed history in High School as everyone knows the People's Power Party, a Thaksin puppet government, won the first election (held a year after the coup) after the military appointed government of retired general Surayud stepped aside in 2007.

Revisionist, much?

Perfectly true. They won the election, as they always do, only to be swept aside by the courts in favour of more 'preferred' people, i.e., the Dems.