SteeleJoe

Its all math. And math can prove just about anything you expect to find.

There is no subject that I am weaker on than mathematics - which is to say I know virtually nothing about it beyond the basics - but the above strikes me as a truly extraordinary thing to say.

Someone better inform NASA right away...and the Pentagon, come to think of it.

Off topic, but a truely amazing thinker, Swami Vivekanada (1862-1902) who was a Hindu philosopher, talked about the expanding universe, genetic inheritance and so on prior to being 'discovered". It has all since been proved by science and mathematics. Look him up, especially his 1893 Chicago speech and collection of writings.

http://www.amazon.com/Speeches-Writings-Swami-Vivekananda-Comprehensive/dp/B008CFXAPW

Thanks, I will. I've actually heard of him and read a reference or two to him before - but did he claim that "math can prove just about anything you expect to find" or something that would support that?

Cannot recall his words on that topic, read his writing in my mid-twenties & was so impressed it led me to studying Vedic philosophy for many years. However there is an article reviewing Vedic philosophy and mathematics at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mauricio-garrido/vedic-philosophy-and-quantum-mechanics-on-the-soul_b_3082572.html

Thanks again. However, I think you miss my point (and perhaps the point of the person on this thread who made the claim about math):

Math can not possibly "prove just about anything you expect to find" nor can such a claim be credibly used to dismiss quantum mechanics.

Understand. I have heard of similar discussions whereby the evolution of mathematical theory and application can indeed prove, in fairness also dis-prove, just about anything and that's the point I was making regarding Vivekananda's thinking and writings

'Kay. Thank you.

...meanwhile, in a brothel in somewhere in Thailand...

...and captive on Thai fishing boats as forced labor ...

Ah yes, classic whataboutery which clouds the original issue with irrelevancies and somehow suggests that 2 or 3 wrongs make a right.

Saves having to think I suppose.

I can't stand "whataboutery" (kudos on the word!) and frequently point out it's inanity and lack of worth but DocN's comment is very, very pertinent. He's not saying, "What about (INSERT unrelated country) with their (INSERT unrelated misdeed)? They are just as bad!" is he? The story is about Thai women being freed from sexual slavery in another country and he's pointing out that the very same thing is happening to Thai women IN THAILAND but that isn't being talked about.

Maybe you yourself need to do more thinking.

Its all math. And math can prove just about anything you expect to find.

There is no subject that I am weaker on than mathematics - which is to say I know virtually nothing about it beyond the basics - but the above strikes me as a truly extraordinary thing to say.

Someone better inform NASA right away...and the Pentagon, come to think of it.

Off topic, but a truely amazing thinker, Swami Vivekanada (1862-1902) who was a Hindu philosopher, talked about the expanding universe, genetic inheritance and so on prior to being 'discovered". It has all since been proved by science and mathematics. Look him up, especially his 1893 Chicago speech and collection of writings.

http://www.amazon.com/Speeches-Writings-Swami-Vivekananda-Comprehensive/dp/B008CFXAPW

Thanks, I will. I've actually heard of him and read a reference or two to him before - but did he claim that "math can prove just about anything you expect to find" or something that would support that?

Cannot recall his words on that topic, read his writing in my mid-twenties & was so impressed it led me to studying Vedic philosophy for many years. However there is an article reviewing Vedic philosophy and mathematics at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mauricio-garrido/vedic-philosophy-and-quantum-mechanics-on-the-soul_b_3082572.html

Thanks again. However, I think you miss my point (and perhaps the point of the person on this thread who made the claim about math):

Math can not possibly "prove just about anything you expect to find" nor can such a claim be credibly used to dismiss quantum mechanics.

BANGKOK: -- After discovering that Luang Pu Nenkham Chattigo, who also goes by the moniker Phra Weerapol Sukpol, spent Bt95 million to buy 22 Mercedes Benz cars, the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) will also investigate to see if the monk was part of a money-laundering racket.

Buddha bless this stinking dude to HELL,.... Where the hell did he get the money from???

according to an interesting Thai "study" he will be living his next life as a Katoy, since he did bad in this one, .............

Where's that then?

Why has the Ameri(k)an gov't for so long unnoticed, a Thai monk with huge amounts of assets and bank accounts? ...Smells of possible CIA/FBI invovlement of drugs and who knows what else.

Why do so many Thais and some foreigners insist on wearing sunglasses indoors, paricularly in places like supermarkets?

I realise there is probably a fashion element, but don't these people realise how stupid they look and how dangerous it can be? I have witnessed lots of people stumbling, bumping into things in my local Tesco. One Thai guy walked straight into a laden shopping trolley, almost ending up in the thing. Righted himself, lifted his glasses to see what he had walked into, put his galsses back on and within seconds walked straight into a clothing rack.

Another day i am behind a Thai guy and his wife at the checkout, came time to pay, the guy pulls his wallet out but cannot see. Lifts his glasses, takes out the money, puts glasses back on. Same routine when he gets his change.

2 days ago, which has prompted this rant...i am sitting in KFC, young Muslim family at the next table, watched in amusement as each time the husband reached towards the bucket for a piece of chicken or a french fry, had to lift his sunglasses to see what he was doing, once he snagged the morsel, sunglasses back on. This went on throughout the whole meal.

I sometimes feel like shouting out...take the fxxxxing sunglasses off, but as a long time resident in Thailand i have learnt to keep my feelings to myself. But it is frustrating...anyone share the same frustration?

Do you think it is cool to wear sunglasses indoors?

Personally, I think you have been really lucky. I dearly wish I'd have seen that stuff...I confess to nonsensically getting frustrated by people doing stupid things that have no effect on me - and that is what you describe - but these scenes would have made me laugh. Out loud (so to speak).

Surely people aren't coming here with no money, no job prospects and no idea how they plan to fund their life here?

Surely some have and odds are some still do.

On his way to the US on an invitation of the cartoon religion/sect the Scientology church or on invitation of the evangelicals.

Errr...what?

Its all math. And math can prove just about anything you expect to find.

There is no subject that I am weaker on than mathematics - which is to say I know virtually nothing about it beyond the basics - but the above strikes me as a truly extraordinary thing to say.

Someone better inform NASA right away...and the Pentagon, come to think of it.

Off topic, but a truely amazing thinker, Swami Vivekanada (1862-1902) who was a Hindu philosopher, talked about the expanding universe, genetic inheritance and so on prior to being 'discovered". It has all since been proved by science and mathematics. Look him up, especially his 1893 Chicago speech and collection of writings.

http://www.amazon.com/Speeches-Writings-Swami-Vivekananda-Comprehensive/dp/B008CFXAPW

Thanks, I will. I've actually heard of him and read a reference or two to him before - but did he claim that "math can prove just about anything you expect to find" or something that would support that?

I lost a bet with myself. I was sure by the time I read to the end of the thread, there would be at least one post saying something like , "What about the corrupt Christians?/pedophiles priests?"

I thought at least a couple of those were required in every thread that is critical of Thai Buddhism or Thai monks.

Its all math. And math can prove just about anything you expect to find.

There is no subject that I am weaker on than mathematics - which is to say I know virtually nothing about it beyond the basics - but the above strikes me as a truly extraordinary thing to say.

Someone better inform NASA right away...and the Pentagon, come to think of it.

Definately not LP jaran if you are talking about amulets etc.

I could definitely be wrong. I have known a couple people who were very impressed with Luang Phor Jaran and I like some things I've read about him (as a TEACHER and not some sort of magic man).

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

One of the best posts I have read in this forum. But I cannot comment on Australian politics, and also cannot imagine any Government or MPs being worse than those in the UK where fleecing the public and putting themseves first is concerned.

A post that egregiously diminishes the devastating impact of corruption in this country and absurdly reduces it - I can't share your opinion of it as one of the best ever. Not to mention essentially the same thing has been said a few times on the thread.

This part is particularly ridiculous and uninformed (either that or deliberately dishonest as it makes for a better chance to both make excuses for Thailand and bash Australian politics):

"The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians."

Notice only the people "involved in" corruption here are mentioned but for Australia those that are "running it" are the ones he singles out. And even without getting into the old fallacious red herring about "poorly paid police officers, one can't help but notice that no mention is made of the fact that virtually EVERYONE in government service - up to and ESPECIALLY those politicians (as well as some not so poorly paid senior police) at the top tier of it - is corrupt and perpetuates corruption. Who does he think is "running the corruption" here?

By the way, compared to the pay one would get as a CEO with even anywhere remotely near the sort of workload and responsibility as a POTUS has to bear, a US President's pay is quite low. I know nothing about Australian politicians or politics but could it be that the PM is, unlike a POTUS, paid something more commensurate with her job?

You do make some good points SteeleJoe, but in the main, I was very impressed with the post I answered.

Fair enough. Different strokes...

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

One of the best posts I have read in this forum. But I cannot comment on Australian politics, and also cannot imagine any Government or MPs being worse than those in the UK where fleecing the public and putting themseves first is concerned.

A post that egregiously diminishes the devastating impact of corruption in this country and absurdly reduces it - I can't share your opinion of it as one of the best ever. Not to mention essentially the same thing has been said a few times on the thread.

This part is particularly ridiculous and uninformed (either that or deliberately dishonest as it makes for a better chance to both make excuses for Thailand and bash Australian politics):

"The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians."

Notice only the people "involved in" corruption here are mentioned but for Australia those that are "running it" are the ones he singles out. And even without getting into the old fallacious red herring about "poorly paid police officers, one can't help but notice that no mention is made of the fact that virtually EVERYONE in government service - up to and ESPECIALLY those politicians (as well as some not so poorly paid senior police) at the top tier of it - is corrupt and perpetuates corruption. Who does he think is "running the corruption" here?

By the way, compared to the pay one would get as a CEO with even anywhere remotely near the sort of workload and responsibility as a POTUS has to bear, a US President's pay is quite low. I know nothing about Australian politicians or politics but could it be that the PM is, unlike a POTUS, paid something more commensurate with her job?

"Naturally I have no proof of this, and haven't personally seen or experienced him do...reading stories about his life written by those who I'm sure would never lie..."

And thus do all manner of religions - no matter how absurd their claims - exist.

The Buddha didn't recommend that sort of credulity, I don't think.

PS: I think it somewhat presumptuous to proclaim someone arahant. And isn't LP Jaran big on magic amulets? Future telling...I think he once predicted Abhisit would have two terms but I might be wrong about that...

I guess I'd better stop or I'll wind up snoring like a pig or something worse...

Yikes! Using the ThaiVisa app it's not necessarily obvious which forum one is in and I don't pay attention: only just now realized I'm in the Buddhism forum.

I can only assume there are folks round here far more learned on the topic than I...maybe I should be more humble in offering commentary - or concentrate more on making sure it is reasonably accurate.

Do you think karma is supernatural?

Do you believe in coincidences?

How many times have you seen someone in a meditation group fall over onto the ground and snore like a pig?

* I think what you have described is. I think any discussion of karma and what it may or may not be would have to be longer and more complex than I am prepared to go into - especially as there is no singular interpretation of what it is or entails (even if one adhere to the belief that it is one of the five aspects of niyama dhammas).

* Everything has a cause and effect. That is basic logic. But do I believe some things happen simultaneously at certain times absent any conscious intentional design (human or cosmic) whatsoever? Almost certainly. More to the point, I know of absolutely no reason why they couldn't.

* Errr...never.

I try to explain to the Thai monks, that they need to start following the Buddha's teachings more and get away from the Thai version. But they both don't understand and don't see the difference.

I wonder at the authenticity of their ignorance or incomprehension: I've spoken to probably dozens of Thai lay people - and a few "forest monks" - over the last 30 years about how Buddhism as it is widely (though not universally) perceived and "practiced" here is very much at odds - and sometimes explicitly in direct contradiction - with the teachings of the Buddha and many, many of them are aware of what I mean and agree (even though a majority of them will continue to ostensibly adhere to the social norms and folk wisdom they were taught).

Perhaps the monks have absolutely no intention of changing - and why would they - so it is easiest and reflects much less poorly on them than would saying, "No, we like our way better than sticking to a more pure Buddhism"...

Besides, they could hardly fail to see a difference without understanding it - or vice versa.

DUPLICATE

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wierd things happening with my posts since update of app

This is very brave of this Thai journalist to so openly criticize Buddhism in his country. I have often felt much the same when observing Thai Buddhism.

Before I came to Thailand, I became very interested in Zen Buddhism. I also frequented a Buddhist center that practiced Tibetan Buddhism. Both of these forms of Buddhism taught me many things about acceptance, patience, love, and kindness. I was actually kind of shocked - and have grown more so by degrees - when I first arrived here. Thai people eat meat, drink alcohol! I was naively thinking that a Buddhist nation would all be teetotal. But that lay people do all these things isn't really a big issue. The fact that many monks smoke, eat meat, openly carry cell phones, drink etc is highly un-Buddhist.

The truth is, Thais have their very own breed of Buddhism that is mixed up with Hinduism and Animism, and I don't know what else...Question I have always asked myself (and I know it's a rather cynical one): Are religions just a cover up for base human desires, a way to control our animal impulses somewhat? Is anyone really capable of being "saintly"?

I have been taught by experience never to criticize a monk. Karma has a way of working when one does.

There is no Thai Buddhism. There is Theravada Buddhism.

I spent time in a Mahayana Buddhist retreat in Daramasla, India, where most of the monks are 'Tibetan' - they all ate meat, which surprised me at the time, as did other practices like the Tantric ones.

Tibetans perception of what the Buddha taught are different to Thais, Indians, Japanese etc.

In Scotland some people's understanding of Christianity is totally different from someone in Utah or Rome etc.

Of course Jesus would not advocate the use of alcohol yet many Christian countries drink, a lot!

Live and let live.

Sort of understand what you are getting at but what's your take on the 'jet-setting monk' from Sisaket? Open for criticism?

Certainly open for criticism but Buddhism in Thailand isn't.

Aren't there leaders in all religions that are filthy rich?

Buddhism in Thailand isn't open for criticism?! Why? Ajarn Buddhadasa wouldn't have agreed with you.

Yes, there are leaders in all religions who are filthy rich (more or less). What is the relevance of that fact?

^^

Not just according to me, others that were there thought it was rude too and had to be something to do with what she said and the way she said it.

Another thing I thought interesting was that when this lama was told that most Western people don't believe in reincarnation, he laughed so infectiously that the whole room full of people were laughing for what seemed like ages.

I'd be interested to hear of others in this forum who have witnessed any strange, 'supernatural' things with monks. I've seen things with yogis that were incredible - breaking the laws of physics.

I've heard that some Tibetan monks can see into the future and even levitate!

* She was very rude. I think that's pretty much an objective fact.

* So according to you and others what happened had to be something to do with what she said and the way she said it. No offense but that makes the conclusion no more (or less) credible to me; millions of people believe things that I don't believe at all. When I watch a video of a preacher touching someone and that person goes into paroxysms, I'm not inclined to believe that it is anything supernatural despite the fact the everyone in the church would swear it is.

* I'm not clear on the significance of the monk's amusement.

* I know that meditation and disciplines tapping into some of the more extreme capabilities of the human brain can afford truly extraordinary capabilities. I don't have any reason to attribute that to anything supernatural (and I know of someone who has spent decades studying Vipassanā - including a decade in India and Tibet - very, very seriously. He also has no belief in the supernatural).

* I've heard Elvis isn't dead.

This is very brave of this Thai journalist to so openly criticize Buddhism in his country. I have often felt much the same when observing Thai Buddhism.

Before I came to Thailand, I became very interested in Zen Buddhism. I also frequented a Buddhist center that practiced Tibetan Buddhism. Both of these forms of Buddhism taught me many things about acceptance, patience, love, and kindness. I was actually kind of shocked - and have grown more so by degrees - when I first arrived here. Thai people eat meat, drink alcohol! I was naively thinking that a Buddhist nation would all be teetotal. But that lay people do all these things isn't really a big issue. The fact that many monks smoke, eat meat, openly carry cell phones, drink etc is highly un-Buddhist.

The truth is, Thais have their very own breed of Buddhism that is mixed up with Hinduism and Animism, and I don't know what else...Question I have always asked myself (and I know it's a rather cynical one): Are religions just a cover up for base human desires, a way to control our animal impulses somewhat? Is anyone really capable of being "saintly"?

I have been taught by experience never to criticize a monk. Karma has a way of working when one does.

There is no Thai Buddhism. There is Theravada Buddhism.

I spent time in a Mahayana Buddhist retreat in Daramasla, India, where most of the monks are 'Tibetan' - they all ate meat, which surprised me at the time, as did other practices like the Tantric ones.

Tibetans perception of what the Buddha taught are different to Thais, Indians, Japanese etc.

In Scotland some people's understanding of Christianity is totally different from someone in Utah or Rome etc.

Of course Jesus would not advocate the use of alcohol yet many Christian countries drink, a lot!

Live and let live.

* I don't believe for a second that monks have some sort of supernatural protection from criticism in the form of karmic retribution: and that's not any sort of Buddhism I'm familiar with. I find the very notion both absurd and offensive.

* There is a Thai version of Theravada Buddhism. (Which has incorporated - as is the case in other countries - superstitions and local traditions (eg animism) along with Brahmin and Hindu beliefs). Not to mention the degeneration of the original precepts or the degree to which many are ignorant of them.

* Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with the topic nor does the fact that it is claimed by loads of hypocrites and liars mitigate in any way the ills of Thai Buddhism.

I think it is rather naive to think that some monks have supernatural powers.

Once, near the end of a Buddhist retreat in Dharmsala, N. India, our group of Westerners were treated to a visit by a top Lama. We also met the Dalai Lama which was amazing and after shaking his hand I couldn't stop smiling for 3 days and was on on a very special 'pink cloud' but that's another story.

Anyway, this top Lama came to answer questions that we had with the help of a Russian guy who translated from Tibetan to English. There was one Israeli girl who asked him why the monks in the local town weren't vegetarian. She said, rather rudely, "they are like pigs". Anyways after an hour or so we finished with a meditation and one of the strangest things I've seen happened. The same girl, who was sitting at the very front fell over from her meditative seating and was flat out on the floor in front of everyone. She was fast asleep and making the most pig-like snoring sounds I've ever heard. What caused this? I don't know but it was something to do with her rudeness in front of this particular special monk.

"What caused this? I don't know but it was something to do with her rudeness in front of this particular special monk."

According to you.

As for the OP - I'm not that impressed. It seems, in my opinion, quite limited in scope, somewhat simplistic and short on analysis.

This is very brave of this Thai journalist to so openly criticize Buddhism in his country. I have often felt much the same when observing Thai Buddhism.

Before I came to Thailand, I became very interested in Zen Buddhism. I also frequented a Buddhist center that practiced Tibetan Buddhism. Both of these forms of Buddhism taught me many things about acceptance, patience, love, and kindness. I was actually kind of shocked - and have grown more so by degrees - when I first arrived here. Thai people eat meat, drink alcohol! I was naively thinking that a Buddhist nation would all be teetotal. But that lay people do all these things isn't really a big issue. The fact that many monks smoke, eat meat, openly carry cell phones, drink etc is highly un-Buddhist.

The truth is, Thais have their very own breed of Buddhism that is mixed up with Hinduism and Animism, and I don't know what else...Question I have always asked myself (and I know it's a rather cynical one): Are religions just a cover up for base human desires, a way to control our animal impulses somewhat? Is anyone really capable of being "saintly"?

I have been taught by experience never to criticize a monk. Karma has a way of working when one does.

There is no Thai Buddhism. There is Theravada Buddhism.

I spent time in a Mahayana Buddhist retreat in Daramasla, India, where most of the monks are 'Tibetan' - they all ate meat, which surprised me at the time, as did other practices like the Tantric ones.

Tibetans perception of what the Buddha taught are different to Thais, Indians, Japanese etc.

In Scotland some people's understanding of Christianity is totally different from someone in Utah or Rome etc.

Of course Jesus would not advocate the use of alcohol yet many Christian countries drink, a lot!

Live and let live.

* I don't believe for a second that monks have some sort of supernatural protection from criticism in the form of karmic retribution: and that's not any sort of Buddhism I'm familiar with. I find the very notion both absurd and offensive.

* There is a Thai version of Theravada Buddhism. (Which has incorporated - as is the case in other countries - superstitions and local traditions (eg animism) along with Brahmin and Hindu beliefs). Not to mention the degeneration of the original precepts or the degree to which many are ignorant of them.

* Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with the topic nor does the fact that it is claimed by loads of hypocrites and liars mitigate in any way the ills of Thai Buddhism.