KhunHeineken

I suggest you use the word "avoid" and not "evade." One is legal, the other is illegal, and can not be discussed. Currently, gifting is legal, and tax free, and a way to "avoid" paying this tax. Yes, it's not in the spirit of the legislation, but that's the Thai government's problem, a problem I am sure they will address in 2025 when they see how gifting is being used as a tax avoidance strategy. On that basis, I encourage members to have a Plan B strategy because I have a feeling you will be needing it in the future. I can see a tweak in the policy whereby gifts will be taxed, or the money to the Thai missus will be deemed an income and she will be taxed on it.

Yes, but my point being, the chances of the Thai government taxing ATM withdrawals, regardless if a debit or credit card is used, is near impossible.

Did you read my post? Did you see the part of my post where I said, "Not going to happen?" Members were discussing if a credit card ATM withdrawal was a loan. I simply commented that even if it was a debit card withdrawal, without, as you describe it, "futuristic" Big Brother Chinese regime style monitoring / cross referencing of all ATM withdrawals, expats WILL NOT be taxed at the ATM. It doesn't matter if a debit or credit card is used, I'll say if again, "Not going to happen." I hope this clarifies my "mindset" for you.

I commend you on having an exit strategy for Thailand. Not because of this tax, but because things can change quickly in Thailand, either personally, or collectively, through Thai government policy. This thread is discussing strategies to avoid paying the tax. In my opinion, leaving for good may be a little rash, particularly as you can still do 6 months in Thailand every calendar year. Maybe you were close to having had enough anyway. My Plan B is Vietnam.

I just commented on this. There are many relying solely on this strategy. I would be considering a Plan B, because I can see this tightening up in the future, once the Thai government see how "gifting" is being used so easily as a tax avoidance strategy.

It would stand to reason that they tighten this loophole and start taxing the Thai spouses on the gift amount as if it was earnings. That policy is for 2025.

If it's a debit card, it's not a loan. The Thai government and Thai banks would need some serious disclosure and paperwork from expats, as well as cross referencing, if they are even going to try to tax ATM withdrawals. They would need to be able to differentiate between tourists and expats at the time of the withdrawal, at the ATM. Not going to happen.

Instead of leaving for Cambodia for a long trip, have you considered getting the 6 or 12 month Cambodia visa, which is needed to open a bank account in Cambodia, then have your "considerable funds" deposited into the Cambodian bank account, and then do some "cash runs" in the same way many people do "visa runs?" You and the Thai missus can bring back to Thailand just under the maximum allowed, and it can be a short break away for a few days every now and then, unless you need the lump sum here for other reasons. You'll still be a Thai resident for tax purposes, but just have no remitted funds. If you live near a boarder, one of the many casinos set up for Thai gamblers can be used as a couple of days away and a cash run. There's no requirement to gamble. I go to the Singapore F1 every year. I have a bank account in Singapore. I will be ordering a reasonable amount of Thai baht to bring back each year. Not enough to live on for the year, but just one strategy of a few I will be using that should see me pay little to none of this tax. With guys using legal strategies to minimize / avoid paying this tax, if some type of certificate from the RD is needed at extension time, it's going to be funny when the immigration officers all around the country ask, "What money you live on in Thailand?" The reply from guys all over the country, "Thai lady take care me." As I mentioned in the other thread, I suspect the Thai banks will not be too happy with this policy.

The proposed changes will not deviate too much. They are firmly based on a physical presence and time based model, rather than the current "domiciled" model. As mentioned, expats wanted to see the 45 days increased. https://www.taxinstitute.com.au/insights/articles/our-submission-on-the-proposed-changes-to-the-individual-tax-res "Changing the individual tax residency rules may potentially increase the number of individuals who are found to be Australian tax residents. The proposed 45-day rule will too easily result in individuals spending more than 45 days in Australia without any genuine or enduring connection to Australia. An increase to a more reasonable threshold, such as 60 days, should be considered."

No mud sticking here. What year are you talking about, financial year, or calendar year? I have often said, in my opinion, the proposed changes will not be an election issue. You still think they will never be passed.

CCTV security is one of those things that you get what you pay for, and the sky can be the limit. There's plenty on the internet about it, and other members have already given you some advice. Base level CCTV for a commercial premises, like a small shop, would be a 4 Channel NVR. 1 camera on the front entrance. 1 camera on any rear entrance. 1 camera on the counter, and if employing staff, 1 camera pointing down at the cash register. You can pay a little more and get a 8 Channel NVR and add more cameras to cover other points of entry, such as windows, or storerooms holding stock. I suggest decent HDD's, with a minimum of 2 HDD's for redundancy. The size of the HDD's depends on how long you want to keep the footage. For example, if the shop is closed on Sundays, you will need enough storage to cover from 5pm Saturday (closing) to 9am Monday (opening) The size of the HDD's is related to the amount of cameras and their resolution. Seagate make good surveillance HDD's. Your main reason for CCTV is to record any violent assault, but if you are buying a CCTV system, you may as well use it to cover break ins, shoplifting, armed robbery, theft by staff etc etc. If you do not require this level of CCTV surveillance, due to the nature of the business, you might consider a simple body cam like below. They are cheap, and are closer to the offender than a wall mounted camera, and face in the direction of the wearer. Sure, it's possible the offender could steal it and the evidence is lost, but in the heat of the battle, this may be overlooked by the offender. https://www.lazada.co.th/products/md80-dv-2mp-hd-mini-action-camera-dv-dvr-i4990738478-s21053306598.html?c=&channelLpJumpArgs=&clickTrackInfo=query%3Abody%2Bcam%3Bnid%3A4990738478%3Bsrc%3ALazadaMainSrp%3Brn%3A6a4904970c41286ff2a6df9ebda1f0c2%3Bregion%3Ath%3Bsku%3A4990738478_TH%3Bprice%3A136%3Bclient%3Adesktop%3Bsupplier_id%3A100105618%3Bbiz_source%3Ah5_hp%3Bslot%3A20%3Butlog_bucket_id%3A470687%3Basc_category_id%3A9866%3Bitem_id%3A4990738478%3Bsku_id%3A21053306598%3Bshop_id%3A134721&fastshipping=0&freeshipping=1&fs_ab=2&fuse_fs=&lang=en&location=Pathum Thani&price=136&priceCompare=skuId%3A21053306598%3Bsource%3Alazada-search-voucher%3Bsn%3A6a4904970c41286ff2a6df9ebda1f0c2%3BunionTrace%3Aa3b58f9717161744392815651e%3BoriginPrice%3A13600%3BvoucherPrice%3A13600%3BdisplayPrice%3A13600%3BsinglePromotionId%3A-1%3BsingleToolCode%3AmockedSalePrice%3BvoucherPricePlugin%3A1%3BbuyerId%3A0%3Btimestamp%3A1716174439740&ratingscore=5.0&request_id=6a4904970c41286ff2a6df9ebda1f0c2&review=4&sale=8&search=1&source=search&spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.20&stock=1

Duly noted.

Interesting link. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=43262106-5c2b-4c47-9406-a19d79a53276#:~:text=Under the Thai Revenue Code,attach documents or any other "Under the Thai Revenue Code, Thai tax authorities have the power, under certain circumstances, such as in the case where the authorities believe there is tax evasion or any person has filed a false or incomplete tax return, to enter into any places or vehicles in order to search, seize, or attach documents or any other evidence, or to issue a summons call upon a taxpayer and/or a witness and ask for relevant accounts, documents, or any other evidence. However, in normal circumstances, even when the tax authorities are not authorized to directly call upon a taxpayer or request any documents or evidence from the relevant parties, the tax authorities still obtain information and documents in relation to financial transactions and tax payments from both domestic and foreign sources. We gather the relevant tax mechanisms that the Thai tax authorities use to access your information so that you can be prepared to comply smoothly with those regulations and requirements." So, they have the power of entry into your premises to seize and summons.

I agree. You can't have legislation without any form of enforcement. Start a thread about it. I tried and is was disallowed. You may have more luck.

People clearly want to discuss compliance / enforcement, as we are now past whether the tax policy will come into force, or not. I tried to start a thread about it and failed. Perhaps another member may have better luck starting a thread on the topic so interested members can continue discussion on that thread and not on this thread.

Allow my to clarify. I used the example of what a bank database can be tweaked to do by the bank's IT section, at the request of the Australian Tax Office. The Thai RD can request similar. The variation would be on the total of remitted funds, not the total of interest earned. The last sentence of your post sums up the point I am making, and I too expect it to happen. Once again, this goes to compliance / enforcement, for which I have started a thread that is awaiting approval.

So, where do you stand on it, Mike? Should we all do nothing and carry on as normal? Should we prepare for finally paying a tax that we now need to start paying, or should have always been paying? What wins out, "technically or practically?"

I've started a new thread about compliance and enforcement that is awaiting approval. People may wish to discuss what the Thai government may or may not do in order to collect their taxes early 2025 on that thread. Feel free not to post on that thread.

You completely missed my point. The point I made was, it's easy for the RD to request Thai banks to tweak their database to supply them certain information, in a similar way the banks in Australia do, and I gave an example. My point revolves around computer databases and money flow tallies for accounts, not the tax law itself.

In summary, would it be fair to say, as retired expat foreigners, we have never needed to care about it, but now we do? Would you agree with this?

Your post goes to compliance / enforcement, for which I have just started a new thread, but since it is currently waiting for approval, I will reply here. Here's an example for you. I am Australian. In Australia, if you do not supply your bank with your individual Tax File Number (TFN) the bank withholds tax at the highest marginal rate on any interest earned. Simple for the bank to implement. A computer does it it all, and sends the money to the Australian Tax Office. (ATO). At the request of the RD, what's stopping Thai banks doing the same, but not for interest earned, but for all remitted funds? At the end of the tax reporting year, you either have to pay more tax, or are refunded by the RD, all based on the flow of money through your bank accounts that all have the same tax number attached to them?

New thread started.

Yes, so they know who is remitting funds, and how much. Easy. Right?

Yes. Like I said, the infrastructure is already in place, and has been for years. All I suggested is they can tweak it and include all remitted funds. Their problem will not be knowing who remitted what amount of funds. This is easy.

Sure to be another flourishing industry in the 2025. "Thai Tax Agent. No tax number. Don't know the new rules. Remitted too much money. Need a tax certificate for extension. - We fix for you."