KhunHeineken

The proposed changes to tax residency, remember them, will have a direct effect on pensions, either through being taxed in Australia, or in Thailand, or both. Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread? The double taxation treaty between Australia and Thailand was put forward as a reason why pensioners will not pay tax in the source country, being Australia, and will only pay tax in Thailand, which is not as much as tax in Australia. Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread also? Thailand has recently started taxing foreigners. It's still early days to see how hey tweak their taxing of foreigners, but it's possible pensions are up for taxing as well. Is this not on topic in the pension thread? Australia has announced changes to their 90 year old tax residency laws which may or may not impact pensioner living overseas, but will definitely impact part pensioners. Is this not on topic in the pension thread? Aussie pensioners are facing some of the biggest changes in decades, from both Australia, and Thailand, and pensions are on the chopping block, and you don't see any of it as being on topic in the pension thread. There was a thread running "Australian pensioners retired in Thailand" but the OP, Lacessit, requested it be closed.

This is the Australia Pension thread. Ask any question you like. The current topic of debate is the single biggest issue facing Aussie expat pensioners / retirees in decades, but other issues can be discussed. No need to be nasty about it.

Did you consider the capital you are going to put into buying a property, the earnings of said capital, would subsidize the rent, and as a tenant, you have no other fees, taxes, commissions, legals, and maintenance to pay?

Yawn. This myth has already been debunked.

I wonder where you got that idea from. Better that marrying a Thai women.

Unless, of course, called upon as a nightwatchman 20 times, and see out the days play, and take wickets with the ball. Once again, your narrow and negative view on the world.

No, that's the aged pensioners in Germany paying 15% tax under a DTA that is more recent that the DTA Australia has with Thailand, and Australia is updating its DTA's with all countries. All of this is irrelevant, because it's the DTA with Germany, and it's possible the DTA Australia has with Thailand in the near future may very well look the same as the one with Germany. That said, it was YOU who said the pension is NOT TAXED in Australia and therefore CAN NOT be taxed overseas. Now, it appears, you are saying it can, and will be, taxed. Why don't you admit your were WRONG?

Off topic. Trolling. Baiting. Personal attack. Play the post/s, not the poster.

Yes. Trolling is obviously one of them.

Here's the link. https://www.financeminister.gov.au/media-release/2015/11/13/new-tax-treaty-signed-germany Here's the relevant section pertaining to pensions. Pensions Pensions are generally taxable only in the country of residence of the recipient. However: Social security benefits first paid after 31 December 2016 may also be taxed by the source country but the source country tax is limited to 15 per cent of the gross payment; Contributory pensions first paid after 31 December 2016 may be taxed in the source country if the pension is attributable to contributions that received certain tax concessions in the source country for at least a 15 year period; War persecution and similar pensions are exempt from taxation; and Government service pensions are taxable only in the country of residence if the individual is also a national of that country – otherwise, the pension is taxable only in the source country. The wording "first paid after 31 December 2016" did catch my eye. However, YOU did state pensions are not taxed in Australia and therefore are not taxed in any other country, so, I welcome your "interpretation" on the above.

I think we all have a fair idea how politicians work, and that is, for themselves, their own benefit, no matter what political party.

Why Confucius? You are the one banging on about "the law, the legislation." BUT, "forget about Article 19." Are the proposed changes to tax residency legislation "negative and misleading?" If so, can you state how so? Also, why no comment on the DTA with Germany? You are the one that stated the Australian aged pension is not taxed in Australia, and not taxed overseas. This is clearly WRONG for Aussie pensioners living in Germany, and probably other countries.

Didn't you state previously the pension is tax free in Australia, so it is also tax free no matter where you live overseas? Now, you are stating the pension can be taxed.

The member is solely focused on the current DTA with Thailand, and has totally disregarded a later DTA with Germany, in which it clearly states pensions will be taxed 15% from the source country, being Australia. (like previously provided) A link also previously provided states Australia is currently updating all of its DTA's with all countries. Once again, also disregarded by the member. Th DTA Australia has with Thailand today, very well may not be the DTA Australia has with Thailand in the near future. The more recent DTA with Germany is very clear, it's 15%, no Article 18 and Article 19, it's 15%. This is something the member refuses to accept ass a real possibility in the near future.

Why "can not" when Thailand gets 10%? Money Number One in Thailand. You know this. Minimal tax is still revenue. Why wouldn't Thailand want it from the millions of foreigners that live in Thailand?

You mean, the DTA that was made in 1989 that is set to change in the near future.

Tax should be looked at as just another bill to pay, and there's nothing illegal about minimizing that bill. Tax minimization is legal, tax avoidance is illegal. More your money around, take advantages of thresholds, low tax jurisdictions, favorable laws etc etc. Thailand now wants a cut of your money. I suggest Australia will not be far behind them, after all, in relation to pensioners, it is the Australian government's money, and none of it is going into the Australian economy, so it makes sense they want at least some of it back.

Aren't certain people paid to look at the negatives? Eg. financial analysts. They are paid to predict the troughs as well, not just the peaks. What about guys working in health and safety. They are paid to look at the worst case scenario for workplace accidents. When it comes to tax, look at the worse, and anything other than that is a bonus.

Link please. Article 18 was subject to the "provisions" of Article 19 and your advice, after banging on, and on, and on, about it's THE LAW, it's THE LEGISLATION, was to say, and I quote, "forget about Article 19." I have stopped researching for now on the effects of the provisions of Article 19 on Article 18 because it's a moot point. My research now has turned to Australia updating its tax treaties with every country. I'm guessing since the treaty with Thailand is 35 years old, it's probably being negotiated as we speak, particularly as there are so many Aussies living in Thailand. I would think Bali / Indonesia would be not far behind, for the same reason. Why would Australia hold off on getting their 15% tax from the thousands of expats that live in these locations, and lose practically ZERO votes in the process? You re holding on to the past to tightly. Change is inevitable, especially when one set of laws is 90 years old, and the other is 35 years old, and they compliment each other. You bang on about how WRONG I am, when I am still researching the "provisions" but how WRONG were you about Germany, and probably other countries. You were completely WRONG when you stated pensions do not pay tax in Australia or any other country. Now you cling on to a 35 year old tax treaty and is set for change in the near future, and for what? Sure, we all continue to live tax free and continue to do what has been working for us, but the times are changing and the ground is shifting under our feet. As I said in a previous post, months ago if I posted "Thailand are going to tax foreigners bringing in their money" I would have been ridiculed in the same way I was for posting about the proposed changes to tax residency. There may have even been a ridiculous long list of hopeful reasons put forward by members as to was Thailand would never do such a thing. Possible a comment such as, "That's only for guys like Thaksin." Yet, here we are, at the point of Thailand taxing foreigners. Look at the Stage 3 tax cuts. You wake up one morning and here's Albo announcing the changes. That's how quick it can happen. We'll wake up one morning and the proposed changes to resident will be passed. We'll wake up one morning and Australia will have a new tax treaty with Thailand, possibly including 15% tax on pensions. As I have previously posted, in my opinion, it's possible the updating of tax treaties is due to the imminent changing to the tax residency laws. What makes you think Australia would be any different? Why would Aussies in Thailand get a free pass when Aussies in Germany don't?

Here's some rocket science for you. You have an ATM from an Australian bank, for when in Australia, and an ATM card from a Thai bank for when in Thailand. If one has to get the money out of Australia for tax / pension purposes,a global bank in Singapore is the best option. Yes, there will be fees to pull out the money in Singapore from an ATM in Thailand, but it will be less than Thai tax, and out of Thailand's tax jurisdiction. I know a guy that flies to Singapore and physically brings it in. Thailand allows up to $20,000USD to be bought in, undeclared. One of his "runs" is the Singapore F1 every year.

There's some government schemes to retrain older Aussies for other occupations. Sign up to some Mickey Mouse 12 month online course and claim the student allowance, or whatever it's called. It's probably only one short assignment a week to submit, which you can do online.

He should tell Centerlink he lost it all to a Thai bar girl. Way more believable scenario.

And let's hope the OP doesn't want to retire in Germany, and probably some other countries, because that makes everything you just said WRONG.

Never have, and never will. It's not just the lost earnings, it's the unstable governance here, fragile economy, and questionable banking system. I transfer in living expenses once a month as needed, and that's it. I'm not going to give a Thai bank a cheap perpetual loan of my money, for a visa that I can buy in one of countless shops across the whole country.

Death and Taxes have never been subject to be positive about. Seriously, they will have every man and his dog jumping on that loophole. How long before it gets closed? At the risk of sounding "negative" the Thai's can do what they want, when they want. You have no rights here. Just look how quickly they implemented taxing foreigners. I would have went the other way and moved money out. Why move money in to a country that is introducing new taxes? If you have to get the money out of Australia, pick a global bank based in Singapore and pull out some living expense with an ATM card. Sure, some ATM fees to pay, but cheaper then paying tax. There will be many tax minimization schemes for foreigners in Thailand being suggested over the next 12 months. The Thai's will be following them and will tweak accordingly to stop the loopholes. Interesting times ahead.