KhunHeineken

How many condo's do you say are for sale in The Riviera Wongamat then? The below website has 23 pages of condo's for sale in The Riviera Wongamat, at 10 condo's listed per page. Did I go through all 23 pages, no. Could some, possibly many, be listed more than once, sure. Still a lot of condo's in that one block for sale. You mentioned how unique a condo with a seaview with two bedrooms and two bathrooms is in Wongamat. In just one condo block in Wongamat it appears such a condo is not so unique. https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/2985/the-riviera-wongamat

Glad we cleared that up. I have posted links. Is the link taken by itself not a fact? If you disagree with the content in those links, please post a link to counter. I'm more than happy to take a look at it. What forum rules have I broken? I just smelt some BS, disagreed with the OP, called him out on his history of talking up the market here across multiple forums and threads, and gave my opinion that it's because he has a conflict of interest, that being, he flips properties here.

So, it's an expensive place to hang "Chinese wall art." Glad we cleared up it's not an investment. But didn't you say, "no troughs" so only peaks for you, right? The only way that is possible is to hold onto a property until the next peak, that's why I asked about time on market. You said 6 months. Peaks and troughs don't occur in a property market every 6 months. This means you had to have held onto the property waiting for the next peak. So, your capital was tied up in a Thai property not earning. But you said you don't think about any nasty things that could happen in the future. You have contradicted yourself. I read it exactly as it says, "decelerating" and by a substantial percent. As I will. You have posted there is no oversupply here, yet in your original post you talk about the number of massive condo projects going ahead. The very first post, not by myself, the member said "Great for renters." Your posts suggest a buoyant condo market here with supply equaling demand, thus stable condo prices. I disagree and have posted links, data, stats, and examples showing why I have formed my opinion. All you have posted is some success in the past of flipping some properties. Correct, and I suggest they take their age into consideration as part of the mix when deciding if buying or renting is best for them. Simple as that. I have never suggest at late 60's one is too old to buy. Great, so, as a renter, can you post some credible links, stats, data, and recent examples and "sell" buying over renting to me and other readers? What's the point of discussing your previous flipping of properties. It's history. Those days are over. You have a long, long history of talking up the property market here in many different threads and forums. I have posted my opinion why I think this is so, that is, you have a conflict of interest. You flip properties here.

My properties are in the hands of agents. They deal with the tenants. They also pay all fees and taxes, and report to me any repairs that need doing, and I sign off on them. They have a list of preferred tradesmen, and I have found their prices reasonable. The money goes into my Australian bank account fortnightly / monthly. I have very little to do with the properties. I have no problem with this. I have said it numerous times. I have no problem with people who chose to buy. I disagree with the notion the OP puts forward that choosing to buy here is an "investment" and I disagree with the OP that there is not an oversupply of condo's on the market in Pattaya. It's as simple as that. Construction methods, and the quality of fixtures and fittings, certainly are not the best. Buy today, and 6 months later the tiles start lifting in the bathroom and who has to pay for that?

I seem to remember the OP being asked if he had a work permit in one of his previous threads. From memory, I believe he stated he did not. I could be wrong, but he can clarify this himself. It's probably all in his wife's name, but you are no doubt aware of the strict labor laws here. Occupations reserved for Thai's. https://aimbangkok.com/restricted-jobs-for-foreigners-in-thailand-complete-list "19. Brokerage or agency work, except brokerage or agency work in international trade or investment. Working as an intermediary or contact between two parties to make deals on insurance, trading commodities, trading or renting and letting property, or trading or participating in business services, and receiving a commission in return, except for work related to international trade or investment." Note trading or renting and letting property. "2. Bricklaying, carpentry, or construction work Building construction: Work that requires knowledge or skills in building, installing, maintaining, and repairing buildings and other structures, such as making concrete models, pouring concrete, retouching concrete surfaces, making metal reinforcements, erecting concrete structures supplemented with various materials, roofing, terrazzo flooring, and installing flooring and walls with tiles or mosaics, plastering on walls and ceilings, installing insulating materials on walls, floors, and ceilings, cutting and assembling glass panes into windows or doors, painting, installing drain and water pipe systems, installing sanitary ware, and electrical wiring inside buildings or other structures." Note construction work can only be done on the behalf of an employer, so a work permit needed. Only the OP knows if he swung a hammer, changed a tap washer, painted a wall, showed through a prospective buyer, placed a for sale ad on the internet etc etc etc etc. I'm sure he will say his wife did it all by herself. If you know what I mean. Perhaps the OP can clarify under what status he has flipped the properties. There's been debate over the years that if you live in the property, you can renovate it yourself, and sell it for a profit, that's not considered "working" here. With the OP's history of flipping properties, if not working, what would you call it? Making money is involved, so I wouldn't call it a hobby.

I did not cherry pick. I went to the Baht Sold website. The Vision Condo was at the top because it was a featured property. I guess this means the advertisers pays the website to always have the ad at the top of the page for a period of time. Here's the link. https://www.bahtsold.com/quicksearch2?c=11&ca=88&pr_from=0&pr_to=NULL&top=0&s= Never heard of The Vision. Never set foot in the pace. I Googled "The Vision Condo Pattaya" and at the top was the below website. (it was the first website that wasn't Google sponsored) https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/3176/the-vision At the top of this website it said the below, and I cut and pasted it. The Vision Pattaya , Chonburi FOR SALE (35 units ) starting from ฿ 1,995,000 FOR RENT (6 units ) starting from ฿ 12,500 This a completely random look at the condo block. No cherry picking. I then scrolled down and saw a condo block in Wongamat. The OP mentioned Wongamat in a few posts, so I did the same. It's called The Riviera Wongamat. I cut and pasted also. https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/2985/the-riviera-wongamat The Riviera Wongamat Pattaya , Chonburi FOR SALE (228 units ) starting from ฿ 2,300,000 FOR RENT (122 units ) starting from ฿ 12,000 One was completely random, the other I stumbled across on the same first page of Baht Sold, and it it in Wongamat. No cherry picking. Regardless of what you think of my posting style, which I couldn't care less about, have I made the above up, or it it there for you to see for yourself with your own eyes?

https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/3188/view-talay-3 View Talay 3 Pattaya , Chonburi FOR SALE (36 units ) starting from ฿ 2,400,000 FOR RENT (2 units ) starting from ฿ 17,000 https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/3189/view-talay-5 View Talay 5 Pattaya , Chonburi FOR SALE (117 units ) starting from ฿ 2,200,000 FOR RENT (46 units ) starting from ฿ 14,000 https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/16298/view-talay-condo-7 View Talay Condo 7 Chonburi FOR SALE (35 units ) starting from ฿ 3,150,000 FOR RENT (16 units ) starting from ฿ 15,000 It's interesting that there's more units for sale than units for rent in the above three condo blocks.

Yes, of course a condo doesn't have to be vacant to be advertised for sale. These other three links have The Vision at 221 units in the block. https://www.ddproperty.com/en/project/3950-the-vision-pattaya https://renthai.com/en/the-vision https://www.fazwaz.com/projects/thailand/chon-buri/pattaya/nong-prue/the-vision These other three links have The Riviera Wongamat at 979 units in the block. https://www.hipflat.com/projects/the-riviera-wongamat-phsydd https://www.fazwaz.com/projects/thailand/chon-buri/pattaya/na-kluea/the-riviera-wongamat https://pattayaprestigeproperties.com/developments/riviera-wongamat-a

I addressed this. What I lost in lower interest rates, I made up in higher rents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_residential_rental_market "Rental prices grew nationally by 10.1% between 2022 and 2023; substantially higher than the annualised CPI rate of 7% for the period." How much money did your condo here make you a few years ago? It only made you what you could rent it for, which I guarantee is nowhere near what I rent my properties for in Australia. Now, the rents are still high, and bank interest is 5%, meanwhile, your condo here remains the same to you, which is just accommodation value, which also attracts fees, taxes, and maintenance costs.

I simply pointed out you contradicted yourself. You say there's no oversupply in condo's here, but then agree there are many large condo blocks under construction. Scale and number of projects, as you say. Your argument is the supply meets the demand. I have shown two random examples in a previous thread of high percentages of units for sale in two randomly chosen condo blocks here, and they are building more and more, and larger and larger condo blocks. What is currently on the market isn't selling, and they are building more.

Do you think newly retired expats to Thailand, who are weighing up the pros and cons of buying, versus the pros and cons of renting, should take their age into consideration? If yes, why, and if no, why? Do you have health insurance? If so, that contradicts your statement, as insurance is there to cover the unforeseen, and if not, many would view that as irresponsible. You state buying a property here is a good investment. Who invests in anything without considering the return on investment / profit. You are changing your narrative now to focus on a property being a "home" and not an investment. Are you advocating buying to be a home, an investment, or both? If an investment, or both, why is it not prudent for one to factor in their age, thus the amount of years they have the use of the asset? You started the thread. I had no idea it was only open to owners. What would be the point of that, owners already own. What would there be to discuss? Are you suggesting they sell and upgrade? Are you suggesting they sell and downgrade? Are you suggesting they cash out and rent? What is the purpose of your thread if it's only for owners? I bet your thread doesn't exclude perspective buyers. The data comes from the BoT. Condo prices are declining. The data shows that. The condo market could decline more, could flatten out, or start to rise. The whole time, more and more condo's are coming onto the market.

As I said in another post, I am not familiar with Leavers. Their chestnuts are the same chestnuts for the buying v renting debate that many, including myself, put forward. They are nothing new. Ask any renter why they chose to rent and not buy and they will tell you all the same chestnuts. I have never said newnative did not have any success flipping properties. I have challenged his notion than an expat buying a property here is a good "investment" and I have posted my reasons, backed up by links, data, stats, and examples. All the OP posts is his opinion and experience. Aren't you contradicting yourself? On one hand, you agree with newnative, and point to his success flipping properties, then on the other hand, say it's impossible to pick the direction of the property market here? Does that mean you agree it's possible the market becomes stagnant, or dips? (note - I have never suggested collapse) This is a really strange comment. As usual, I will explain why. So, I go to the Baht Sold website and punch in "real estate - apartments / condos for sale - Pattaya." The very first one on the list is titled "A million dollar view from The Vision." Here's the link. (note - the ad may have slipped by the time you open the link, but it was the first one on the list at the time of this post) https://www.bahtsold.com/quicksearch2?c=11&ca=88&pr_from=0&pr_to=NULL&top=0&s= So, I Google "The Vision Condo Pattaya" and the first online real estate agent that is sponsored is in the below link. https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/3176/the-vision This appears at the top. The Vision Pattaya , Chonburi FOR SALE (35 units ) starting from ฿ 1,995,000 FOR RENT (6 units ) starting from ฿ 12,500 "The Vision is a condo project The Vision construction was completed in 2016. The Vision has 23 floors and contains 42 total units, Units range from Studio to 2 bedroom." For the record, I am not familiar with the building. I have never stepped foot in there. 35 units for sale in a block of 42, and less than 10 years old. That's a high percentage of vacant units. I did not cherry pick the above. It's was the first ad on Baht Sold. So, I scrolled down Baht Sold and I saw an ad for Wongamat. The OP mentioned Wongamat, so I did the same. Same first page on Baht Sold as the above link. The title is "Special Off - Riviera Wongamat." I Google "The Riviera Condo Wongamat" and the forth website down is the same online agent as above. Here's the link. https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/2985/the-riviera-wongamat This appears at the top. The Riviera Wongamat Pattaya , Chonburi FOR SALE (228 units ) starting from ฿ 2,300,000 FOR RENT (122 units ) starting from ฿ 12,000 "The Riviera Wongamat is a condo projectThe Riviera Wongamat construction was completed in 2017. and contains 321 total units, Units range from Studio to 3 bedroom." 321 units and 228 are for sale, and it's also less than 10 years old. That's a high percentage. Once again, I have never stepped foot in that building. There above are two random selections, but it's a common theme. I can post example after example of the same. So, is the above struggling to sell, or not? I don't know what Leavers' idea was, but as I said in another post, if Thailand was serious about taxing remittances, it was 6 months Thailand and 6 months Vietnam for me. I posted this over a year ago on various Thailand Tax threads, with some others posting they would do the same. I explained my choice of Vietnam in another post. I know Vietnam does not have a retirement visa, but all I was going to do was 179 days a year in Thailand so I wasn't a resident of Thailand for tax purposes.

That's always been the risk they take. In my opinion, the Chinese will push the boundaries of this to the point the Thai government might put a broom through the system, which may also scoop up expat retirees.

I'm not suggesting Thailand / the TRD has the same policy as Australia / the ATO, but in Australia, the ATO is the biggest creditor and winds up more companies, and sends more people into bankruptcy, than any other creditor. https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics-and-insights/system-insights/state-personal-insolvency-system "The ATO is the largest creditor in the personal insolvency system with $2.5 billion in liabilities during 2023–24, including $1.7 billion for business-related and $0.8 billion for non-business-related personal insolvencies." It would be boarding on scaremongering to suggest, given many foreigners hold property in a company structure, that if a foreigner didn't pay tax, their company could be wound up and the company's assets seized to pay the tax liability, but I don't rule out anything in Thailand. It's not a stable country and things can change very quickly here.

I not familiar with Leavers. I posted on the many "Thailand Tax" threads in the Property and Finance forum, it would be over a year ago, that if Thailand really goes hard at taxing foreigners on remittances, I would do 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in Vietnam. I wasn't the only member who saw Vietnam as an alternative to Thailand. I've been to Cambodia many times, but wouldn't want to live there. Laos is landlocked. Malaysia is a moderate Islamic nation, but not much party there. Singapore no freedom and expensive. Bali is full of Aussie bogans. That left Vietnam. I minimized my remittances and paid a small amount of tax, just to get some documents proving so. I did this because I don't trust the Thai government and / or Thai officials. I was not in the "do nothing, they can't enforce it" camp. So, I'm still in Pattaya, but should Thailand ever go pear shaped, I will move to Vietnam.

That's because it doesn't fit your narrative, right? The OP is the same. Raw data from the BoT and deflects commenting on it. I am not attacking the OP. The OP is notorious for starting these property threads talking up the property market here. He has a conflict of interests. By his own admission, he flips property here. He starts posts on here to try to give perspective buyers confidence in the market. Real Estate Agents are in the Top 10 most hated professions by people. https://www.thetoptens.com/jobs/hated-professions The OP is an illegal real estate agent here, and starts these these threads to mislead readers. The OP started the thread. Like any other thread, there will be people who agree and people who disagree. Why do you seek to shut down the debate? I post stats, data, examples, to give some balance to the famous buying v renting debate here.

I copied and pasted the below into a browser. You posted this: "• Likelihood of Sharing: Low for standard superannuation accounts held by Australian tax residents or non-residents, unless the account falls outside the typical superannuation structure (e.g., certain SMSFs with foreign investments)." At the top of the page was AI generated information. You do know the accuracy of AI is not great, don't you? The first website below that AI generated information was the below. https://1040abroad.com/blog/u-s-taxation-of-australian-superannuation-funds The first sentence of that website is this: "U.S. taxation of Australian superannuation funds is one of the more complex areas of expat tax, largely due to a lack of direct IRS guidance. Unlike American retirement accounts, Australian superannuation accounts, which are considered foreign pension plans, don’t automatically enjoy tax-deferred status under U.S. tax law. " So, my question remains the same. Where did you source the information in your previous post from?

Death and taxes, right? The computer data bases are starting to communicate with each other back in Australia. As I have posted before, Australia is facing around 10 years of no surpluses. This means they will be chasing every dollar from everyone. Times are changing.

Where does the above come from? The word "low" does not mean "never" does it? Can "low" change to "probable" in the future? You are relying of slipping through the net, whereas, I like to have my duck in a row.

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/proof-life-compliance-reviews-if-youre-older-80-and-live-overseas?context=22526

Yes, it's called market forces, but with no proper town planning laws here, developers can build as many condo's as they want.

These were your words, "Yes, both the scale and the number of projects." So, is there a large number of large condo blocks being built here? If yes, it's more oversupply, if no, you have contradicted yourself. You want to portray supply is equaling demand, thus a buoyant condo market, but I have posted a credible link showing nation wide this is not the case.

No reincarnation here. I became a member in Jan 2011, way before I started living here full time. Contrary to your belief, many share a similar opinion to myself, and it's not based on negativity or conspiracy theories, it's based on the reality on the ground here, which includes a mix of the many things I have posted. One thing I have not expanded on too much, and it is because it is one of the biggest unknown factors when making a decision to buy here, and one which you seemed to agree with, was the big question of life expectancy. Buying a "forever condo" in Thailand comes with the unknown factor of how long will one live for? If one was to buy some run down shoe box studio for cheap, and pass away a few years later, they may realize a financial benefit on paper. Of course, they are dead, so they don't get to realize any actual benefit should the total monthly rent exceed the purchase price. If one was to buy a higher end condo for many millions of baht, and pass away a few years later, have they got a return on the money they have put down for the property, when compared to renting the exact same property, no. It's not being negative to discuss the above. We will all die one day, and when buying a property in one's late 60's, life expectancy must be considered. I know one guy here who has implemented an interesting work around. He bought a condo in his son's name, so upon his passing, there's no problems, it's still his son's. (the son is a farang) I've met his son, as he frequently holidays in Thailand, so in this case, I agree buying was not a bad idea, as the property ownership would / should benefit two generations, given their relationship remains stable, and so does Thai foreign property ownership, and Thai visa laws remain stable as well. I know what it feels like to experience the satisfaction of owning a property. That feeling of stability and control over one's micro environment. Yes, in a way, the ability for one to hang their "Chinese wall art." This feeling, or "sentiment" is something I know I personally would not feel by owning a property in Thailand. I, and many of my friends, would feel the opposite. I would feel it's a risk. I would feel tied down. I would feel at the mercy of changes to policy in Thailand. I would feel a sense of loss of freedom of movement. Notice none of the previous have anything to do with making money and whether the condo is an appreciating asset. People of the current retiree generation have matured with the theory "rent is dead money." Given all the things discussed by myself, pro renting, and yourself, pro owning, how applicable is the "rent is dead money" theory in Thailand really? I have no problem with people who chose to buy, I just challenge their notion that their property is an "investment." In many cases, one is gambling with life expectancy. Then, you have the many other things as previously discussed to consider. Life expectancy is an unknown, however, math can still be applied to age ranges of our own mortality. Indeed, life insurance companies pay actuaries to project life expectancy and premiums payable. Applying this math is nothing new. If one pays X amount for a condo, and does the math on several life expectancy models, and then compare it to renting the exact same condo, or a very similar condo, and the math reveals one has to live to say 95 years of age before buying puts them financially ahead, then you can see it makes no sense to buy, as there's not many 95 year old around. Of course, there's the "I want to leave something for the Thai missus when I go" motive, which I am happy to discuss, and it has been touched on, but that discussion may be for another thread. I also touched on a catastrophic injury / illness. Eg. stroke. This may see someone have to return back to their home country for free, government provided, long term health care. This may also see one unable to realize a benefit of buying, as opposed to renting. Your OP title is "Pattaya Condos: History and Future." I'll post the link again. https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/asia/thailand/price-history "The condominium segment experienced a notable deceleration, with price growth slowing from 7.20% year-on-year in Q3 2024 to 2.46% (1.45% inflation-adjusted) in Q4 2024." So, firstly, is the above link from a credible source? If so, the data sheds some light on your OP title, does it not?

No twisting of the narrative. This link is from data provided by the BoT. https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/asia/thailand/price-history "The condominium segment experienced a notable deceleration, with price growth slowing from 7.20% year-on-year in Q3 2024 to 2.46% (1.45% inflation-adjusted) in Q4 2024." Care to comment on the stats and graphs in the link?

I forgot, you also sold used cars in the past as well.