khunPer

17 hours ago, sh2019 said:

Has anyone on this forum had a good experience with their 30(+30+30) lease contract and successfully renewed the lease after 30 years?

The 30(+30+30) lease is illegal, and to my knowledge even mentioning it in a lease-agreement, could make the agreement void.

The Civil and Commercial Code 'rent of property' says...

Quote

Section 540. The duration of a hire of immovable property cannot exceed thirty years. If it is made for a longer period, such period shall be reduced to thirty years. The aforesaid period may be renewed, but it must not exceed thirty years from the time of renewal.

Full text in English translation here.

About contracts...

Quote

A promise based on general contact laws, say to do something in future (e.g. to renew a lease in 30 years time), may turn out unenforceable under Thai contract law.

Source "Options in a lease contract".

When signing a lease agreement running for 3+ years it shall be registered at the local Land Office to be legal, and tax paid for the full lease term.

Compare your leasing fees, eventually tax deposit, and estimated interest during the term – either loss of interest for prepaid, or gain of interest when paying monthly compared to buying a property for cash – with buying price of the land/property. You might in 30 years pay the full value of the land.

Compare that with an option for either the company limited method, or letting a Thai wife or girlfriend owing the land, and giving you habitation right of one-or-kind (read more here). However, not all land offices will accept a usufruct servitude for a foreigner, and be also aware of the legality of contracts between husband and wife.

As poster @The Theory suggested – "Buy on you gf name then lease 30 year it from her" – and have loan-servitude for the sales price (or like servitude) registered on the land to protect your "investment", and lease it from her. The monthly leasing fee can equal the repayments of the loan. However, you must check that possibility with a local experienced property solicitor that know what the local land office accepts of servitudes; there can be differences in different areas, what's possible here, might not be possible where you look at property, vice versa.

And to your initial question: No, I have not heard about renewals of 30-year lease periods – however, might exist – and was curious to see if any posters came up what a reply. 

My solicitor said that a separate agreement – not mentioned in the initial lease agreement – could be made for an optional lease term(s). However, it would probably not be worth the paper it was written on, as it gives no rights at all, and the only way to enforce it, would be proceeding with a civil court case. If the lessor had died, or the land was sold – and of course respecting the lease-servitude for the original 30 years – it would be hard to sue someone.

In another thread I asked about if any cases were known, where a private home owned by the company limited method has been claimed illegal, because of using the company limited method – and lease out from the company – but seems like no replies. Cases with fraud – or large speculative, or "white-washing" projects – don't count; its expected that one keep the said company limited in as legal condition as possible. Apart from the relative small annual cost for a running company, it might not be that bad an option; also compared to when leasing 30-years from third party and during that period pay the full value of the land/property – or more – anyway.

There might not be a general optimal solution for safe home-habitation or home-ownership in Thailand, as lots of details are individual from case to case, and area to area.

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19 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Take out the 11 parties who failed to get enough votes and it comes to 240 v 244.

Its depending of calculation method what was "enough" votes, I don't speculate in "if" another count of votes were used, I just looked at what the number of seats in the elected House of Representatives voted, because that is a fact. Without the senators, there were still a "democratic" majority of seats.

I have no opinion about the one, or the other, side is right, or wrong; I'm just observing facts...????

17 minutes ago, bergan said:

You actually think this was a free and fair election? Is that your honest opinion?

Speculation, no one can prove the one or the other, I don't speculate...????

6 hours ago, pornprong said:

Too true.

The 11 seats the EC moved across to top up that 251 is kind of impactful though.

Don't you think?......????????

6 hours ago, CGW said:

Your not trying to justify the vote - are you? 

Not I'm not, just simple calculation of a "democratic" majority.

"Democratic" means here the seats, which not always mirrors the actual percentage of a population, depending of how votes in various areas are transferred into mandates for a parlament – UK is a good example, in 2015 gave 36.8 % of the votes, 50.8 % of the seats – furthermore political negotiations into coalitions might also not mirror what the people believed they voted for.

Just simple calculation of the votes in House of Representatives, which gives a majority, without counting the appointed Senate. That's what I say, everything else is speculation...????

7 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Yes i am aware of cases, my lawyer mentioned them to me. I have no details tho, i can ask him if it's of interest to you tho?

Yes, thanks, real cases are of interest, and probably also for numerous other forum-readers than me.

There are lots of laws in Thailand for almost everything, many rarely, or seldom, used.

What you say is correct, and that's why OP was advised to...

Quote

Land & house owned by a company is in principle illegal, if its a so-called shell-company in cover of foreign ownership, with Thai nominee shareholders. You will need a due diligence for both land title deed, and company, before buying an already established company, which mean you'll need experienced solicitor assistance.

I don't know if you still can, but you could bring the old style shell companies into acceptabel condition some years ago, when the law changed, by getting rid of eventually nominee shareholders, and make sure all shareholder's capital was actually paid into the company (other assets as share value might not work).

If a seller is selling a company, including the company's assets of land & house, the price might be based on a combination of market price and avoided taxation. Selling the land & house asset only, might trigger more tax than the 3.3 % business tax at the land office, as also the company – or shareholders – will likely show a profit, and need to be closed to let the shareholders legally withdraw their share value. It could be a different sales price without buying the company. Transfer from one company to another might also require a limit of 39 % foreign ownership in some land offices.

Many, if not lots, of land & house are sold as companies, and if everything has been done "after the book", it works well.

I agree in what you have mentioned of precautions – and there are actually more one can do, if one wish to be on a safer side with one's "investment" – and I know that many of the law firms where I live, don't make shell companies (anymore); clients need them-self to find shareholders with proof of funds.

Thanks for constructive comments.

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7 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

7 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Not really, he owns the company and the company owns the house. 

He can't sell the house, he can sell the company including the house.

If the company sells the house it will need to pay tax on the profits.

https://www.cbre.co.th/media/service_sub_lang_file/124/PropertyTax.pdf

 

Good overview

But...

Quote

The general tax rates (excluding company or individual personal tax which may also apply eventually) are shown below.

I thought that kind of drugs were available in the pharmacies.

I noticed in a health shop that they sell a huge variety of traditional kind of Chinese stuff for that, but I got no idea if it works. However, some natural products should have good effects, and well as stimulant exercise – I only know of Danish articles and instruction, will check later if available in English language – perhaps you could check with Google.

On 5/17/2019 at 12:29 PM, davidst01 said:

What are you cooking at home? Please give an idea about what sort of food you are eating. I think I need more ideas about what to eat admitting in advance that my cooking skills are below average

thanks

Unfortunately we eat too much in my house, as both my lovely girlfriend, our daughter and myself cook excellent meals – I'm not a great cook, but "distress teaches every woman to spin" – and I'm actually not a eating that much here in Thailand. I was eating more in my home country, but that might be to gain some fat to survive during a long and cold winter...????

Where I live both BigC and Tesco makes nice bread at affordable prices – I also have the choice of dedicated bakeries, but the super stores are more convenient, as I'm already shopping there – so bread in the freezer, and when use it, it goes a few minutes in a hot air oven, and then its delicious. Not all bread sorts can however be used for that, but one learn to pick the right ones, so I always have gourmet bread – a the smell of same – in the house. Some times my daughter also bakes bread.

I'm a cheese lover – even that much, that a dinner for example could be cheese, bread and red wine, eventually also with some French-style ham – but I eat a variety of other dishes. By the way, I read in a newer scientific study that cheese eaters lives longer, so I plan on getting full tax-value of my life-long government retirement pension...????

My girlfriend mainly cook the Thai dishes, that's her specialty, but as I'm not into too spicy food – I like to taste the food, not taste chili whatever I eat – she often make two version, one with food taste for me, and one with nothing but else but chili taste for our daughter and herself. I have many favorite Thai dishes like beef in oyster sauce, pork with fried onions and garlic, massaman curry with chicken, laap mo with fresh raw vegetables, pork in sweet'n'sour; but by girlfriend also cook traditional Danish-style crispy pork ("flæskesteg", I taught her, and its a hit among her Thai friends) with boiled potatoes and brown sauce; and a variety of Italian pasta dishes, and lasagne, are further gourmet specialties from the girls, and with oven baked garlic bread as side dish. Furthermore potato-salat that could be served with a big BBQ-steak as side dish, or just a plain Angus-beef burger...????

I don't eat much rice, as it makes one feel stuffed, and hungry again a few hours later; however, a fresh harvested Jasmin-rice do taste delicious, just like we potato-farangs (farang = white potato) loves fresh new small potatoes...????

I like to cook Western-style food, very easy, as that food is quite simple without too much stuff mixed together. Some are dishes from my home country, some are inspired from travelling. I introduced the use of double-cream to make sauce – I'm Danish, so in the eyes of a Thai, my country is mainly inhabited by cows producing oceans of fat milk and whipping cream for cookies...???? – and the girls adapted it, as it makes the sauce taste so much better (in Thai dishes it however need to be coconut milk).

Easy to make is for example the popular Danish bowl dishes, which could be both yellow curry, or red paprika – from light taste to spicy, depending of one's taste – one of our common favorites is pork sirloin cut in fairly large pieces (chicken filet can also be used), bit cuts of onions and pepper fruits, freight in butter (of course), and seasoned (curry or paprika with a bit of oregano or parsley), adding (lots of) double cream (or cooking cream), finished when the creamy sauce gets fat after a few minutes. Served with mashed potatoes, or farm cut fried potatoes; alternative rice can be used. The dish can be supplemented with either crispy bacon, or small cocktail susages, or both. Takes about 15-20 minutes to make.

A Russian variant could be beef stroganoff, where beef meat is used instead of pork. Fry the beef, add a bit of water and let if boil at low power for quite some time, so the meat gets tender – Thai beef can be used, if boiled long enough time – add cut onions and/or pepper fruit, bit of paprika and tomato sauce, and lots of double cream.

French style hashish is also easy to make from chopped meat – can be beef or BBQ-spiced pork – freight in butter, add a bit of water, and taste with salt and pepper, and a tiny bit of tomato sauce or tomato/chili sauce. Served on a plate with mashed potatoes on top. Quick and easy to make. A crispy french-style flûte bread or baguette is a nice supplement.

Swedish pytt-i-panna is nice to get rid of left overs of various meat, cooked or fresh, sliced into small pieces and freight in butter together cut onion and small pieces of potatoes. A freight egg on top and HP sauce is a must for some.

Steamed salmon – so easy, just steam or boil in a bit of water – served with potatoes of a kind, or rice, and double cream sauce, especially white wine sauce would be perfect here. Just pour some double cream in a pot, warm it and add white wine, eventually a bit of salt. Fresh dill, or other fresh herb, on top. Remember coarse pepper when served. The dish can also be a starter, but probably then not too big slices, and served without potatoes and like, but just a piece of bread.

Easy kind-of chili con carne – might be difficult to find real beans – which the girl also like. Its one of the little more spicy variants. I use minced (chopped) pork meat freight in butter, or palm oil, with BBQ-spice and lots of ground chili together with a vegetable mix. I use the deep frozen mix-pack of garden peas, carrots, and corn from the supermarkets, easy to get, and taste is all right. When freight add tomato sauce or chili-tomato sauce. Remember to taste during the cooking, so its not get too spicy – or taste of nothing – serve in a bowl, and bread as side dish.

Butter can be replaced with palm oil (palm oil is best for hot food, don't consider olive oil for that), and crispy bread, like baguette or wholemeal bread, is always a nice supplement.

Just a few examples of my favorite dishes, perhaps they can inspire you...????

PS: I never eat more than two meals a day, often chicken as breakfast/brunch, and enjoy a nice dinner.

Seems like both sides – if not more than two blocks – wish to do the best for the Thailand, but they don't seem to agree on what the best is...????

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

500 members of both houses (251 MPs and 249 senators) voted for Prayut against the 244 MPs who voted in favor of Thanathorn.

Senator's vote or not – in my calculator 251 MPs are more than 244 MPs...????

More important would be to teach folks to stop throwing their used plastic and styrofoam – and other stuff too – the wrong places, but dispose of it in proper garbage bins.

4 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Yeah they actually raided a whole "law office" because of dodgy nominee structures there:

 

Wasn't the first time tho: https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/samui-nominee-shareholder-investigations.html

 

 

There are many many of these cases, most don't make it into the news.

When they caught that german running a hotel a  few weeks ago they also complained about his nominee structure: https://thethaiger.com/news/samui/raid-on-18-foreign-owned-koh-samui-hotels-owners-arrested

 

 

samui and pha ngan are extremely hot on this, my lawyer always has nice stories about those 2 special islands ????

 

 

Simple rule... Your shareholders should be well known to you, either friends, family or business partners and should have an actual interest in the company.

Also pay your taxes and do something, companies just holding land without doing anything are a nogo.

 

Not sure what happens if they investigate you and find misdoings, guess there's a chance to fix it either restructuring or selling the property. For sure going to get expensive tho...

Yes, the authorities checked a Samui branch of DFDL, but we never heard about anybody in problems on the island because of using a Thai company limited as owner for a private home. So far the checks have been for larger projects using nominee shareholders, not for single homes, and that's what I ask examples for, because that is what this thread is about.

Nominee shareholders in small companies – for example names of employees in a law firm placed as shareholders, which were common practice until about a decade ago when setting up a company limited for property ownership – have been illegal for long time. If someone use nominee shareholders, or haven't changed their nominee shareholders in a old company, they could face problems. However, they don't loose property, but are given a time frame to bring things in order. Its typically the older company limiteds with seven shareholders, when the law changed to minimum three shareholders only, they began to check proof of funds for the Thai shareholders upon registration to eliminate nominees. 

The story with the German man – Kiran is his name, and he is well known to many of us on the island – has nothing to do with deed and owners, all his documents showed to be legal, and in good order, but he had no hotel-permission for renting out for shorter terms than one month, that was his problem. It has nothing to do with a company limited. Kiran thought that he had the hotel-permission cleared it by paying some money, the mentioned 800k baht, but the story is not crystal clear. The hotel permission problems is not only for him, but also for others, caused by local hotel, or resort, owners that feel they loose business to the growing popularity of villa rentals. Miskavan is another, and much bigger case.

Knowing the shareholders in a company limited has already been mentioned for OP...

–and OP replied here...

5 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Extremely dangerous and dodgy, same reason people are losing their property all over samui and co.

Do you have any examples of people on Samui loosing their property because of this "structure"..?

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Would add that you can get a building permit without real land "owners" written permission if you have a usufruct or lease in your name tho.

Thanks for your reply.

Lease is depending of the text in the leasing agreement.

Not all land offices will issue usufruct for foreigners.

????

IMO a pity that they didn't manage to get a 30-day extension-of-stay, including a complimentary accommodation at Bangkok Hilton...????

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Then you get superficies for the house in your own name, i am not sure this is possible when the house is already on there tho - ask  a lawyer.

Not possible to my knowledge, a superficies is issued before building a house. If a house is already registered together with the land, it normally cannot be separated.

Its also depending on what assets are listed in the company limited's books, if the house is listed there, its a company asset.

If the house is already separated, it can be sold separate from the land, and only when re-sold registered separate. When building a new house, the building permission – together with other documents with the owner's name – is proof of ownership, eventually together with a superficies; a written permission from land owner is always needed to obtain a building permission in another name than the land owner.

????

4 hours ago, BillBilous said:

Not good at all, boring and a total waste of time sitting around Samui Immigration. Many other places in Thailand operate an online system why not Samui ?

Boring? 90-days address report normally takes 10-15 minutes.

More a pity for those living at Phangan that need to travel over every 90 days.

Some times I really mis a wow-????-emoji , this is one of them...

22 hours ago, MikeN said:

Use his name or you will have problems....

Keep using your name or you will have problems....

Simple, keep both names; one as the middle name, for example the Thai family name...????

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

You can read more about requirements for non-immigrant A-O here "Retirement Visa Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (1 Year Visa)".

????

 

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It's just about the length of stay, not the reason for stay.

Correct for non-immigrant O, but not for non-immigrant A-O, which is only issued to people over 50 years, and officially called "retirement visa" (se above link).

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#7

Non-Immigrant Type O- A (Long Stay) 1 Year per entries/Multiple entries/ 1 year validity 

 

The Thai Embassy in London don't agree with you.

It's officially called the Non Imm O-A Visa.

It's issued for the purpose of 'long stay' or 'retirement'.

The title and link is The Thai Embassy in Copenhagen, so I'm correct, but the embassy in Copenhagen states a different "name" from the embassy in London...????

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

So incorrect, I know where to start ☹️

What is incorrect – appreciate correction – did you at all read the link..?

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

The non-immigrant O visa can be extended on 1-year periods based on retirement.

You cannot extend a Visa.

The Visa expires on it's 'enter before' date

You extend your permission of stay.

Yes, of course ...O visa "permission of stay" can be extended, like I wrote in following paragraph, thanks for adding that...????

On 6/4/2019 at 6:17 AM, revgreen said:

Suggestions?

Cash payment...????

If your question was about finance, find a guarantor, or buy a cheap second hand temporary car, or long-term rent/lease a car, until you can prove bank records...????

8 hours ago, JTXR said:

OK, 90 days vs. 1 year.  Got it.

But what are the differences (financial requirements and police background check) when applying for the visa in one's home country?  Can the Non O be applied for in Thailand?  Can the Non O be extended again and again like the Non OA?

Yes and no, and yes.

The Non-immigrant O visa is for 90-days; however, you can apply for a 1-year multiple entry non-immigrant O, which will give you a 90 day stamp on entry, and you can re-enter up to 1 year, i.e. if you re-enter Thailand just before expiration, you can in total have something like 1 year and 90 days, but never stay more than 90-days before you need to exit Thailand (visa run).

The non-immigrant O visa can be extended on 1-year periods based on retirement.

The non-immigrant O-A is the so-called "retirement visa" issued to people over 50-years in a limited number of foreign countries' Thai embassies (must apply in one's home country). It require almost same documentation as an annual extension based on retirement, and similar financial proof, but the fund don't need to be inside Thailand. Furthermore criminal record, and a health insurance is required, which has lately been much discussed. You will get a one year entry, but shall do 90-days reports, like when having an annual extension of stay. You can extend your stay on the non-immigrant A-O visa for one year, same conditions as when extending stay based on retirement of a non-immigrant O visa.

You can read more about requirements for non-immigrant A-O here "Retirement Visa Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (1 Year Visa)".

????

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It's just about the length of stay, not the reason for stay.

Correct for non-immigrant O, but not for non-immigrant A-O, which is only issued to people over 50 years, and officially called "retirement visa" (se above link).

2 hours ago, BadSpottedDog said:

The new rules are as follows, just so you know. We were told this directly by immigration officers, and read it on the immigration website. I'm assuming that you must one of the people that can keep 800k in the bank year round, otherwise, you would know this too. 
1. 800k in a Thai account 3 months prior, PLUS 400k in the bank the rest of the year. They are trying to get rid of the use of agents "loaning" money for 3 months.
2. 65k "from a FOREIGN source" deposited in her bank every month, with a certified bank letter to confirm drafted within 24 hours of renewal. The money CANNOT come from a Thai bank. 
3. They have done away with the "combination of the two" allowance

 

As for the US Embassy discontinuing the affidavits, it was not just the US. It was multiple countries. I would be surprised if the decision to do away with the affidavits were a joint effort / decision by multiple countries, all at the same time. Just some food for thought.

Thanks for update me on the "new rules", however I believe I'm quite confident in the rules...
1. 800k baht 2 month before, instead of 3 month before for renewal – some few immigrations might still wish 3 month before – and 3 month after application for extension of stay, the remaining 7 month not under 400 k baht in the bank deposit.

2. 65k a month has not been changed, but a few embassies only are no longer issuing an income guarantee letter; however US-embassy letters issue before 2018 year-end is valid for 6 month.

3. According to Thaivisa's visa-expert its still valid, but unclear how much shall be kept in bank deposit, 400k baht or equivalent to relative share of combination.

No, its not in number, but only a few embassies that have changed the affidavits, including USA, and Britain together with Australia and Canada, and the Danish (my home country) embassy also; however they can still issue for governmental retirement pension. I don't instantly recall having read about any others in Thaivisa forums.

In principle, you should always have transferred your mum's retirement pension into her account, however that's easy to say in the unbearably crystal clear light of hindsight...????

PS: Your saved $7,000 a month instead of Atalanta equals around 200k baht, so the 800k bank deposit is only 4 month saved cost. We knew about the change of affidavits from the US-embassy since last year, and affidavits issued before year-end was said to be valid for 6 month...

Quote

I want to renew my visa in 2019. How can I verify my income for the application?

• Thailand provides information about visa application and extension requirements on the Royal Thai Embassy in Washington, D.C., and the Thai Immigration Bureau websites. These include minimum savings and income amounts and types of evidence required.
• As of October 26, 2018, U.S. citizens can verify they meet the income requirements for retiree visas directly with Royal Thai Immigration by providing a local bank statement indicating a minimum deposit of 800,000 Thai Baht or evidence of having an income of at least 65,000 Thai Baht per month. Applicants should refer to the above-referenced websites for specifics regarding the timing and conditions associated with these deposits.
• We will continue to notarize income affidavit forms through the end of 2018. Thai Immigration Bureau officials confirmed to us that they will support early visa renewals for U.S. citizens during the transition period. The income affidavits are currently valid for six months.

Source: US Embassy Bangkok, 26 Oct. 2018.

6 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Out here in the countryside we dont make too many visits to the big supermarkets but buy most of our daily needs from the local market. Sadly the market that once offered goods mostly wrapped in leaf is now the great contributor to the plastic collection. One small serving of noodles gets a bag for the dry contents, a bag for the liquid and a small carrier to hold it by. Or there is the Styrofoam box plus a plastic spoon or fork, or the cold drink in the plastic cup with a bag to hang on your m'bike handle bars. Plus of course anywhere from the market to the villages you will find a trail of these items as they are discarded after consumption. Its going to take a revolution to change these habits and sellers dont care and schools are not tackling it.

This is the real problem: "...anywhere from the market to the villages you will find a trail of these items as they are discarded after consumption."