RedFxTrade

Front page .. !

3 weeks later ..........

'Gold and silver's increasing safe haven status is seen in news from the Financial Times (front page) and from Bloomberg today (see news).

The Financial Times reports that "Greek citizens are emptying savings accounts and buying gold as they brace themselves for the possibility of a sovereign default and a run on the banks."

Sales of gold coins have soared as savers seek a safer and fungible source of value, says the FT.

"When the global financial crisis started, our sales of coins to investors overtook bullion for the first time," said Harry Krinakis, at Sepheriades, a Greek precious metals trader. "Now the sales ratio has reached five to one."

Tomas, a computer technician, has exchanged his euro savings for gold coins: "I keep them at home just like my grandmother did in the second world war."

http://www.zerohedge...fe-haven-demand

It surprises me that this hasn't happened on a bigger scale already? Does Greece have any form of bank deposit guarantee for those who are brave enough to keep their money in a bank account through all this?

Yes...I think the insurance deposit scheme at the moment is called the European Central Bank

China is finally buying fewer US Treasuries, StanChart says

So what are they buying Naam ?????? any clues

http://ftalphaville....stanchart-says/

Literally posted that at the same time man...watch though you ll get put on ignore for presenting some substantiative sources...and presenting credible evidence

nobody Tricky,Sarky,Maybe,Berscalexy,van rompwho , ...... can decide what to do , there is no leadership ... There are now only hard decisions , which nobody will take -- so they will continue delaying as long as they can --- Same for the US and Europe

Sarky - Maybe can flirt and kiss ..... but lead .. no.....

Deal on Lifeline to Avert Greek Bankruptcy Is Postponed

http://www.nytimes.c...ro.html?_r=2

Boris Johnson: let Greece go bankrupt and leave the euro

http://www.telegraph...e-the-euro.html

Nigel Farage - Bankers+politicians = 'unholy alliance' vs people

Wow, Farage speak so much sense, you have to wonder is he really a politician...oh wait, he was a commodities trader and an economist for 20 years beforehand...I guess his judgements are based on sound reasoning....which is more than can be said for the fools in charge...

China Is Buying Fewer US Treasuries Finally, Stanchart...and guess where some the slack is being spent? Europe...

It seems Naam has placed me on ignore from his last post for presenting no personal attacks and for presenting facts....with sources I might add...corroborative sources at that. Naam was going on about a small $275 loan, while within the last year the Chinese state martime company bought over the largest shipping port in Greece for $4.3 Billion USD and have set up at $10 billion loan fund for Greek shipping companies with 250 order already in....childish in the extreme...I always try to get to the bottom of stories or claims,and when I actually do that, you get placed on ignore... ...which proves my point of an overly dogmatic and non liberal approach to information....

What has this got to do with the OP? Anyway, these guys were breaking the law on purpose. ..they were asking for it.

So Craig, surely this must be relevant to the OP? In fact I can't think of anything more relevant to a financial crisis than to watch publicly spirited people having to feed the hungry in the park?

You didn't see anything wrong with people being arrested in Washington DC simply for dancing so what about this then?

Are you beginning to see the trend?

Shocking....horrible people....I have noticed a trend in the UK also, just little stories here and there popping up more frequently....however, about people being shown a disproportionate reaction from state officials for the most petty things...In fact this one in the Uk was also charitable in nature

I read this one this week from the US...this one actually shocked me...

How I Learned The Truth About The State...in the end, ordinary citizens are going to flip in my humble opinion....you can see in that video in the park the anger is starting to boil..

Hmmm....from a grad student studying divinity. And with topics like this in his blog: "Is There a Scientific Explanation for Justin Bieber?"

He's got a bone to pick with the authorities and now he's blogging about it. Two sides to every story...

Your right that there always two sides to every story, however, my point is that I m seeing more and more a nanny state in the UK and reading more and more stories from a wide range of people and sources regarding these issues...from both Europe, the US and the UK...

IS there a Scientific Reason for Justin Bieber was not on his blog, it was by another author...and its a comment on a claim by Emory Uni Prof that neuroimaging can be used to predict future trends...Did you read it Craig or just go by the title? The author refutes the idea, and is not the one posing the question..IS there a scientific reason for JB?

What has this got to do with the OP? Anyway, these guys were breaking the law on purpose. ..they were asking for it.

So Craig, surely this must be relevant to the OP? In fact I can't think of anything more relevant to a financial crisis than to watch publicly spirited people having to feed the hungry in the park?

You didn't see anything wrong with people being arrested in Washington DC simply for dancing so what about this then?

Are you beginning to see the trend?

Shocking....horrible people....I have noticed a trend in the UK also, just little stories here and there popping up more frequently....however, about people being shown a disproportionate reaction from state officials for the most petty things...In fact this one in the Uk was also charitable in nature

I read this one this week from the US...this one actually shocked me...

How I Learned The Truth About The State...in the end, ordinary citizens are going to flip in my humble opinion....you can see in that video in the park the anger is starting to boil..

You do not have a credit card or anything I take it?

This happened me before and was forced to use the credit card...I know it will not help you right now, but perhaps you should consider getting another bank account, and leaving the spare card in your condo/hotel.

You should be able to get money wired through Western Union...perhaps someone in your country, family, friend can send you some via WU or Moneygram and you can pick it up at Siam bank I think for Moneygram, even on a Sunday....and you can wire money from your bank account to their bank account through online banking...which I assume you would have?

RedFxTrade, on 2011-06-18 15:47:55, said:

What you said about a couple of small loans to a Greek shipping company is completely wrong...and inaccurate.

RedFxTrade, on 2011-06-18 17:23:30, said:

I m not talking in particular about Greek shipping companies.

this is getting ridiculous. you are not even man enought to admit having made a mistake which happens to all of us once in a while. instead your are going on with yada yada yakety yak.

question: does your Mama know you are using her computer?

Thats because I have not made a mistake...just to lay it out...China has made investments in Greek shipping but not in particular (exclusively) as they have invested in assets all over Europe and the UK. case..but your general assumptions that China is not supporting the Euro, and even calling it a fantasy is untrue, its simply a function of a trade imbalance between Europe and China. One of the largest supports in the GBP up until 2008 was merger and oversea takeovers...China has been investing in European assets and to say that is not supporting the Euro is well not true....the Euro would probably be much lower otherwise. Chinas single largest investment in Europe so far was in Greece. I knew I had seen this in the FT Chinese investment and trade interactive map, and some of the special reports they do...

your phantasy seems to be unlimited and sometimes even embarrassing Churchill. please elaborate why (many years down the road) CNY or INR in the SDR basket could have an impact on EUR or "the rescue of the EUR"

You have for the last 3 pages rebuked the idea first put to you in January by CH that China would support the Euro...so my reply is in relation to that assumption...I m talking that they are using their reserves in Euros to buy up Euro denominated assets...and that includes Greek assets, worth a lot more than this $275 million figure you talked about... couple of small loans to a Greek shipping company is completely wrong...and inaccurate,,,thats what I said and it is still wrong and inaccurate 3 hours later....perhaps your using Google 2007 version

Anyway, the Greek crisis got into swing February 2010,however,...in July 2010...The Piraeus port in Greece, the largest one was bought over by the Chinese for a small sum of $5 Billion USD...China Enters Greece

COSCO Pacific, a port operator subsidiary of China's state-owned shipping giant China Ocean Shipping Co. (COSCO), has signed a US$4.2 billion deal to take over management of Greece's container port Piraeus.

Cosco has signed a 35-year lease and will spend US$707 million to upgrade port facilities, build a new pier and almost triple the volume of cargo the port can handle, reported China Daily.

furthermore....

China also just announced in March...China to double investment fund for Greek shipping

ATHENS (Reuters) - China will double to about $10 billion the size of a fund offering cheap loans to Greek ship-owners, Greece's Maritime Affairs minister said on Saturday.

China agreed in October to set up a 5 billion dollar fund to help Greek ship-owners buy Chinese-made vessels..

Greeks control a big part of the world's commercial fleet and many of their vessels are built in shipyards in the Far East.

"It is extremely positive that we have doubled this amount to about 10 billion dollars," Diamantidis was quoted as saying in an interview to newspaper To Thema. Diamantidis visited China earlier this week.

"China has pledged that the financing terms for Greek companies will be better than those offered by any other bank in the world," Diamantidis said.

Chinese shipping conglomerate Cosco has pledged to charter Greek-owned ships built in China, he added

Moreover, it seems that 350 orders for ships have already been placed...China, Greece forge closer maritime ties

During his visit, Diamantidis and Weng Mengyong, deputy minister at the Ministry of Transport, reached an agreement on an action plan to further consolidate the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on maritime affairs signed by the two governments in June 2010.

The action plan refers to specific cooperation in 2011 and 2012, and encompasses both the state and non-state shipping and cargo handling companies of the two countries. Under the plan, both countries will undertake to promote their hub port cooperation and secure the funding for the construction of more Greek ships by Chinese shipyards.

The Chinese government has agreed to create a $5 billion (3.6 billion euros) development fund to help finance the building of Greek ships in Chinese yards.

"Although we have not decided with which shipyards the Greek ship owners will be working with, we have already placed orders for some 350 vessels so far," says Diamantidis.

Perhaps this Interactive Investment Map of Chinas Global reach will be useful...The largest single investment to date China have made in Europe has been Greece. Chinese investment in Greece so far trumps investment in France and Germany...The Chinese also own real estate in Greece, hotels, as many wealthy Chinese decide to have their weddings in Greece.

You can make a chart look like whatever you want it to if you scale it right.

Yes - Really one needs to compare to real interest rates , amount of money in circulation , debts , global wealth ? , gold supply , central bank holdings etc over similar periods -10 , 30 , 50 years to get a feel of today's price and where it might be going -

Absolutely...after all a £1 actually meant a pound weight in silver....there are 16 ounces in a pound weight...and one ounce now costs £22, the exponential increase is scary. Would love to see that charted....a chart of that would make that Gold chart posted by 12drinksmore of what appears to be a spike really be a flat line...

What you said about a couple of small loans to a Greek shipping company is completely wrong...and inaccurate. Those $3 trillion USD in reserves are worth that in USD amounts, but are 25%, yes 25% made of up of Euros...only 2 thirds of the reserves are actual USD...however, if you add up the denominations of all reserves it comes to 3 Trillion USD....

i fail to see

-why stating the fact that loans to three (not one) Greek shipping companies totalling $~275 million is "wrong",

-what these loans have to do with the reserves of China,

-and i have no idea why you are trying to tell me the obvious, i.e. not all Chinese reserves are denominated in US-Dollars which is nothing else than bla-bla and the same goes for the rest of your posting which are irrelevant to Churchill's and my posting.

there is nothing wrong if you want to lecture people with your (boring) essays. but don't embed other postings which are not connected to these essays, e.g. "Turkey = Europe = support for €UR" or claim that a stated fact is "wrong". i am sure a minute of googling will reveal that my information (loans to shipping companies) is correct.

I m more generally responding to the posts over the last few pages, and the quotes that Churchill posted from yourself previously....not that particular post...you have clearly stated that China would not come to the "help" of the Euro...I m not talking in particular about Greek shipping companies...but your general theme on the Euro...whereas I was highlighting the fact The Chinese Government Investment Fund is actively seeking to buy Euro denominated assets as a function of holding Euro reserves.

They might well be boring, in the end the subject is economics not Penguin Classic Japanese Erotic literature (for posh wanke_rs ), that book does exist BTW. However, I try to disseminate the information and write it from my own view and apply any knowledge I have learned...and learn from any info that others post also Perhaps I am long winded, but so be it. No ones obliged to read it. In the pub people are usually into the fourth pint by the time I finished telling a story... :)it transmits into writing also it seems. Have a good day..

as I hear the Chinese Premier is making a trip to Europe next week presumably to TRY !! to support the Euro ...

rescue = hear... presumably... support... ? TRY > EUR =

China Discloses "Vital Self Interests" In European Bailout

http://www.zerohedge...uropean-bailout

on EURope China has been talking but not acting. a loan to three private greek shipping companies with a specifically earmarked purpose was announced, the amount is negligible peanuts ($ 275mm) and until today not paid out.

as usual Dyler Turd lacks information (or pretends to) to spread sensational BS based on his assumptions.

p.s. to muddy the waters even more, former British Prime Minister Churchill wrongly assumes that Turkey is a state in Europe and that the code for its currency (TRY) can be used for the country. oh well...

Naam, and other people in the media who spout this need to understand something. When the media or an article, or China announce they have $3 trillion in reserves....it means they have total worth $3 Trillion in reserves. It does not mean the reserves are made up completely of $ 3 T. They announce 3 trillion USD worth as the USD is the reserve currency. Just like Gold, wheat, oil is priced in USD, thats what we hear...

What you said about a couple of small loans to a Greek shipping company is completely wrong...and inaccurate. Those $3 trillion USD in reserves are worth that in USD amounts, but are 25%, yes 25% made of up of Euros...only 2 thirds of the reserves are actual USD...however, if you add up the denominations of all reserves it comes to 3 Trillion USD....

So China does have a fair few Euros...its a mathematical function that those will end up back in Europe whether by buying assets in Europe, companies, bonds, investment in some form...So when we hear that China pledges support for European Bonds, its not out of the goodness of their heart....its because they hold Euros already. Standard Chartered have followed the money trail and tracked this....they say 25% of the reserves are Euro and SAFE have alluded to it..,,,slightly more than an amount to buy a couple of Greek shipping companies. Trade between China and Europe has been huge, so its only natural they will have a fair few Euros...Its not secret that China is trying to diversify those reserves, hence you will find more and more China will be buying European and US assets. As i said they were not buying Spanish bonds for the fun of it.

China of course does have a vital interest in Europe as they make a large portion of Chinas reserves. So if the Euro currency goes up in smoke,,,well its not great for China...I reckon the reason they are trying to buy "real" assets in Europe. Do not be mistaken they do have an interest in the Euro...

The Chinese Government Investment Fund (the governments sovereign wealth fund)...will be buying European assets

China Investment Corporation says considering investments in Europe

Reuters reports that, "China's sovereign wealth fund will actively consider investment opportunities in Europe and has identified many potential targets there, its chairman said on Saturday. Lou Jiwei, chairman of China Investment Corp (CIC), said the CIC had not invested at all in euro zone countries last year because of financial protectionism, but that now, with European countries easing scrutiny over investments by sovereign wealth funds, it was more of an option.

You constantly throw out contrary statements to every piece of information posted here, yet the irony is that you yourself throw out the some of the same gross assumptions and inaccurate information, or just outright refute anything based on what appears to be an overly dogmatic and non-liberal approach to information and education

Greek Bank Deposits versus EURCHF...

Yes ...

Why the big money isn't always the smart money

Commentary: Institutional investors miss gold, bonds

'According to Merrill Lynch, these professional money managers have been saying gold is overvalued for years — completely missing the massive bull market of the past decade.

Merrill's latest survey includes data for the past two years, as gold has nearly doubled. During that time these professional investment managers have called gold actually cheap just once, in January 2009. Every other month they've said: "Oh, it's overvalued."

It was "overvalued" in May 2008 at around $880 an ounce. It was "overvalued" in June 2009 at around $930. It was "overvalued" in early 2010, and it was still "overvalued" a year ago at around $1,200 an ounce. And it's still "overvalued" today.'

http://www.marketwat...oney-2011-06-15

Thats interesting...No doubt they will continue to say that. Remember Roubini saying gold was in a bubble. They obviously do not understand money and its functions and nature. I think that is why the Austrians have trumped the Keynesians everytime. Keynesians focus on prices. Austrians on money and credit.

This will probably be significant...The Spanish 10 yr has officially broke out to the upside of that long time range, up 18 Basis points on the day...has pulled back a bit...but at a high of 5.75%, an 11 year high...

EURO GOVT-Spanish yields soar after luke-warm auctions EURCHF plunged down to 1.1950...could see 1.1700 before long

NEWSFlash....Its 100% certain that QE 3 is coming...

Confirmation from BOA poll....of "professional investors" Always such an optimistic bunch...I hope they do the poll when the S+P is sub 1200...

Ah .. feeling a lot more relaxed !

At least one GOP Presidential candidate, Gold Standard bearer Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, supports both a U.S. gold standard and a domestic precious metals sector.

http://www.mineweb.c...tail&pid=102055

Here is Ron Pauls stockmarket portfolio....RP's Stocks Do you see any weighting towards a particular sector? He has held these for years apparently...I m surprised at RP, I thought it would be full of Linkin, JP Morgan, Citi and Netflix stocks...oh thats probably Barney Franks

Posted 2011-05-30 16:05:09

Quite ! Wait for front page news to confirm what seems pretty obvious and gold will probably be a lot higher - Up to you

gold may 30 = $ 1,540

gold as of now = $ 1,518

where did you get the "idea" that gold will be probably a lot higher?

that is not the point ! As I posted it over a month ago .....

I still think that Gold in the current climate will be a lot higher in the coming months ... trying to look forward of course ..

Or perhaps even in 60 mins up $26 USD, in Euros and GBP dear know how much....

Right I m off for a smoke and too many beers... I now have candlesticks and charts, and yields and %%%'s clouding my vision. :jap:

Is it me or does his head look really huge? Anyway I don't agree that China Japan etc will stop buying US debt; as long as they want to sell anything to them anyway...

That is the pivotal question...the stats show they have reduced purchases of US debt. They do not even need to sell them, but a reduction and if they stop buying them in my opinion is feasible...After all what cannot go on forever will not. To say they will not stop buying US debt proposes that they will buy it ad infinitum...thats not going to happen. The important point I guess is if they want to sell anything to them...the way I see it is this;

America has a population of 310 million...

If we take a very conservative 10% of developing countries citizens will move into a consuming middle to upper class income group, then those 300 million American consumers can be replaced...

China 10% would be over 100 million people

India 10% another 100 million people

Brazil 10% another 20 million people

Russia 10% another 15 million people

Add into that then another 100 million people between Australia, Canada, Europe, the Asean region and the US...and you have a consumer that can take up the slack of the American consumer...thats only from a 10% increase in middle classes in these countries.

I was listening to an interesting prgram on Radio 4 on Sunday which was talking about the trade relations between Brazil and China...its growing rapidly...Here is a special report PDF On China/Brazil trade relations. Electronic sales in Brazil are booming based on electronic imports from China, the same goes for clothing...there are many very important structural changes in trade between Brazil and China...China in return sees Brazil as a one stop shop for commodities in China, building huge ports and ships in Brazil...

China became Japans biggest trading partner in terms of exports and imports in 2009...These sort of structural changes do not occur overnight, and they do no reverse overnight also...

Forget all the scare stories of selling US T-Bonds a reduction in buying (already happening) will be enough to put upward pressure on yields and crimp the US consumer who have basically no savings...Americans will over time stop buying not through choice, but because they cannot afford to at least no where near the same manor they have done over the last two decades...This in itself will lead to a reduction in demand for Chinese exports from the US, and in that a reduction in Chinese demand for US T-Bonds

Perhaps the next biggest buyer of US T-Bonds as yields go up will be US citizens themselves as they begin to save.

'J&J reports special charge related to restructuring; to cut 900-1000 jobs, take USD 500-600mln charge. Bullish for unemployment'

...Not looking too healthy .....Recovery without employment ? I think Obama is going to be pushing for more stimulus ..

Without a doubt in the election year...bunch of selfish, conceited pricks taking other peoples money, childrens future money to pay to keep them in....

The Humble Greek Depositor and the ECB

On the subject you mentioned earlier CH regarding Greece and money moving out to real assets...this was just posted on Alphaville...This FT blog is far ahead of the curve of the rating agencies as they have been talking about this for months....this was one of the links within the article of Londons Rich sell as foreign money pours in Apparently the Greeks are one of the groups buying UK property, or London property...talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire I wonder what real assets the rich sellers will buy?

As the tear gas swirls in central Athens…

Euphemism du jour, from an S&P downgrade of Greek lenders:

We observe that domestic customers of Greek banks have demonstrated their sensitivity to signs of deterioration in the sovereign's creditworthiness…

In fact, the whole statement is quite extraordinary for its singular focus on deposits. Standard & Poor's analysts note that the flight of retail depositors "could conceivably continue to intensify". Well yes. Half as many euros fell out of deposits from January to April as during the whole of last year (€13bn and €28bn). Frankly, it looks like an intensification is already here.

It isn't just because of fear about the safety of the banks in a default (or indeed the value of euro deposits if Greece leaves the currency). Obviously, the entire Greek economy is burning through cash reserves as joblessness rises. So it's not clear how much of this Greek depositor cash is going abroad, either into other deposits or real assets.

But whatever has caused the depositor flight, it's odd that not many are making the connections to Greek bank funding at the European Central Bank. Having fewer deposits to draw on, the only other place Greek banks can go for replacement funding is from the ECB. That means pledging more, not less, Greek government-backed collateral.

So, what are we to make of the ECB's repeated threats to cut off the collateral's eligibility if the Bank is prevented from dictating terms on a bond rollover?

Of course it's entirely within the Bank's purview to do this. It's not a lender of last resort to insolvent banks. But equally it's not in a central bank's purview to stop a sovereign debt restructuring and certainly no official throughout the eurozone is realistically able to control the deterioration of Greek deposits and credit.

Wake up and smell that tear gas, nos amis.

Is that why Spanish yields on 2, 5 and 10 years are up sharply...this week and today?

referring to bond yields and mixing them up or comparing them with the results of a t-bill auction tells a whole story. any additional comment, except , is superfluous but i can't refrain.

most investors and eggsburts who are familiar with the debt market expected a real explosion of spanish t-bill yields because of Greece's downgrade to CCC day before yesterday. but to the dismay of some gloom&doomers we are looking at an increase of 0.149% (12m maturity) and 0.165% (18m maturity).

disclaimer: one swallow does not make a summer. and in my heart of hearts i am still hoping for a PIIGS crash (at least one) and the opportunities accompanying it.

Thats semantics, they are the same thing,,,T-Bill, note, bond...bills are have a less maturity, under 12-24 months...either way you dice it...yields are up from the shortest to the longest end.

12-month bill sold 3.96 billion 2.69 versus 2.54 (6% higher in a month) Bid-to-cover: 2.9 vs 2.5 (higher)

The 18-month bill sold 1.46 billion euros at 3.26% vs 3.09% (higher than previous month) Bid-to-cover 3.9 vs 4.1 (lower)

The red high lights show the parts of the auction that were worse, month on month, the blue better...over all it was not the roaring success...

As I have said its the banking system in Spain you need to be watching and the Cajas...5-10 yr yields are near break outs...and the up coming bond auctions, and the Spanish economic health in general.

"S&P says Greek bank outflows of domestic deposits could intensify'

i think S&P waits for front page headlines as well

:lol:yeah I think your right and print edition at that...As Rogers said this week The rating agencies are overrated.

Wasn't Ambac down to cents in the USD, down like 98% and S+P downgraded them..."ok this company might not be in good shape"

Good Luck with those negotiations Mr Paparendou It all seems like a lovely conducive environment for a parliamentary debate...rumours of large circles being formed to not allow politicians out the parliament. Gold catching a strong bid against Euro, GBP, CHF, NOK, SEK om safe haven demand

Update from Athens Sq

Just been told one policeman also injured in the trouble in Athens #greece

19 minutes ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Seen one person taken away on a stretcher #Greece

30 minutes ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Sorry for the typosþ - eyes watering fromthe tear gas

30 minutes ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Groups now fighting in the crowd - those trying to keep it peaceful and those causing trouble

41 minutes ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

More tear gas and thunder flashes fired by policer into the crowd #greece

44 minutes ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Latest demo pics from Athens #Greece http://twitpic.com/5bty7m

47 minutes ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Greek PM says he's trying to reach national consensus over budget - poss opening positions in cabinet to opposition? #Greece

54 minutes ago

»

YanniKouts Yannis Koutsomitis by AlanFisher

Uncorfirmed: Greek PM Papandreou to ask for the formation of a new bipartisan government. | #Greece /cc

@AlanFisher

1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Couple of petrol bombs have now been thrown

1 hour ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Latest pic from the protests in Athens http://twitpic.com/5btdxr

1 hour ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

From where I'm standing looks as if the crowd in Athens is around 8 - 10 thousand strong - probably bigger as i can't see the side streets

2 hours ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

Just been live from Athens with the latest on the #Greek protests. I'll

be back up live in an hour

2 hours ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

More protesters arrive in square in front of parliament in Athens #greece http://twitpic.com/5bsmuw

3 hours ago

AlanFisher Alan Fisher

A lot of hostility towards journalists in the square in front of the #Greek parliament. Told to go back to Scotland!

3 hours ago

Naam's reply ....

'translated from an unknown greek online news site. no greek newspaper, no international newspaper, no reports from any greek or european tv-station, no Reuters, no Bloomberg published related news.

what's wrong with that reply? does it imply any "ideas" or did it refer to facts (then)?

There were facts....the Greek banks own balance sheets, and the Bank of Greece figures...then as in 2 weeks ago, or 3 months ago...

Posted 2011-05-30 16:05:09

Quite ! Wait for front page news to confirm what seems pretty obvious and gold will probably be a lot higher - Up to you

gold may 30 = $ 1,540

gold as of now = $ 1,518

where did you get the "idea" that gold will be probably a lot higher?

that is not the point ! As I posted it over a month ago .....

I still think that Gold in the current climate will be a lot higher in the coming months ... trying to look forward of course ..

Naams looking at it in USD....the USD has been stronger, however, the price of gold in real terms, not in nominal terms against one currency is up...Sugar, oil, copper, rubber, GBP, Euro, AUD...gold is higher month on month in real terms...

International investors have demanded a higher return to lend to Spain due to a combination of concerns over the deflation of its decade-long property bubble, stagnant economic growth, and the possibility of contagion from a Greek default.

Wall Street Journal JUNE 14, 2011

Spain sold €5.42 billion in 12- and 18-month Treasury bills, near the maximum targeted €5.5 billion. The offer attracted a hefty total €17 billion in bids, implying a more than three-fold coverage ration, implying strong investor demand. The higher yields, however, are "a reflection of the current tensions in the peripheral universe," said UniCredit strategist Chiara Cremonesi.

Spain's 12-month average yield rose to 2.695% from 2.546% previously May 17. The 18-month average yield increased to 3.260% from 3.095%.

"The decoupling is still there for now with Spain and Italy doing well in their refinancing program so far with almost 50% of the expected needs already raised in the market," said Jean-Francois Robin, a strategist at Natixis.

Naam June 15, 2011 THE SKY IS FALLING!

Is that why Spanish yields on 2, 5 and 10 years are up sharply...this week and today? Must be the strong demand ...yield up means people are selling....that is distribution not demand...If this was such a healthy auction why are yields moving higher? Come back with an article with a high bid to cover and Spanish yields considerably lower not higher...that would be demand.

Its not so much Spanish yields you should worry about, initially, thought I suspect the banking sector problems will be transmuted into Spanish sovereign yields in the not too distant future....However, despite that yields are higher, and on longer maturity auctions much higher...however, its the Spanish banks that are the main problem in Spain...Failed bond auctions, and a 25% rise on Spanish banks dependency on ECB loans in the last month Steep Rise in ECB Loans To Spanish Banks However, I m sure the robust GDP growth and efficiency and shrinking tax receipts in the Spanish economy along with the all the hidden non market to market property valuations will keep Spanish yields low.

LONDON (SHARECAST) - Reports of a failed bond auction by the Spanish banking giant Santander has emphasised the weakness of Spanish local governments.

The Wall Street Journal claims Banco Santander failed to find buyers for 50% of a bond offering backed with loans made to Spain’s regional governments.

Even if the higher level officials across the EU come to an agreement with what to do with regards Greece, what are the chances that the Greek government will be able to pass the measures taken?

In my view it seems more unlikely by the hour and day....In fact it seems that The Greek Government PASOK do not even hold a majority anymore...so how can they pass these measures?

Greek Paralysed By Strikes

A couple of top rated journalists who have done great work on the ground in Middle East, Eypt, Libya, Alan Fisher travelled to Athens last night. He seems to be indicating on his twitter feed from Athens Sq that the mood has changed to extreme anger, petrol bombs being thrown....They should let it go now before they make it worse...giving more money to this will sink money down a rat hole...

I m not sure where Naam gets this idea or figures from from that there is no run on deposits on Greek banks...

and i'm not sure why you refer to a casual remark, made weeks ago and referring to a single day, using presence tense "gets this idea". you have to be a bit more sophisticated when presenting rubbish like this if you don't want to be ridiculed

next!

This is not something new...it has been going on for months...the run on deposits. This was pointed out 2 weeks ago, and you said you it was bull...yet two weeks ago, and 3 months ago it was known there was a run on the Greek bank deposits. The Bank Of Greece figures show this....the action in stock prices shows this....This run has not began in the last 2 days, but weeks ago. I m just pointing out at the time you said it was bull and scare mongering with no sources despite with evidence to the contrary...All I m saying is I m not sure where you got that idea two weeks ago, not today...Perhaps it was a casual remark, but you did post about 3 or 4 "casual" remarks in posts in retort saying it was bull when the it was obviously not back then.