TerraplaneGuy

Is there a recently updated list of required documents for retirement extension at Chaeng Wattana?  I've been doing it down in Koh Samui the last couple years where they have their own requirements, but might end up back in Bangkok this time.

5 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Samui immigration live their own life with their own rules, you probably don't gain anything from discussing the law with them. The pinned Samui-immigration thread in the local forum is the best way to get information.

Thing is I posted this question in that thread in August and not only has no one replied, there don't seem to be any posts in the thread by anybody since then.  Wonder why it's so quiet ...

1 hour ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Did they check any other details?  Last year in Samui I gave them a lease but they didn’t seem to read past the first few lines, to identify the names and property (not surprising since it was in English and legalese). 

It really is crazy if they require a one year lease. Effectively means retirees have to stay locked in place for a year.  Nothing in the law says that. 

32 minutes ago, PumpkinEater said:

I was required to have at least a one year lease contract for the extension Samui.

 

Cheers!

Did they check any other details?  Last year in Samui I gave them a lease but they didn’t seem to read past the first few lines, to identify the names and property (not surprising since it was in English and legalese). 

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am sure they will want to see a longer stay than one at a hotel. If you could get proof from the hotel stating you will be staying longer than few days they might accept it.

Immigration requires that to prevent people from going to a different office than where they are actually living to do the application.

Thanks.  If that's important, I wonder why Chaeng Wattana does not require a lease (at least they didn't in the many years I lived in Bangkok, i.e. up to 2020). 

I raised this question in the context of another thread but no-one addressed it so giving it it's own topic here.   Question:

Has anyone done the retirement extension at Samui while staying in a hotel/short-stay accommodation?  If so how did you handle the requirement for the "house rental contract and copy of your household book" which are on the Samui office document list?   Does Samui Immigration accept a hotel booking confirmation as a "house rental contract"?  (I guess the household book part shouldn't be that hard because every hotel should have one.)

I have an OA retirement extension.  Here in Koh Phangan we need a TM30 (and copy of house book and owner ID) to get extended (we have to use the Koh Samui Immigration office).  Also need TM30 to file 90-day report in person.    If I sublet a home from a foreigner, is it easy to have the Thai owner do a new TM30 registration that includes me as well as the main tenant?  Any issues?

12 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I didn't 'go'. I was just doing my normal annual extension.  One of the documents required in the past was a TM30. I run around to oblige their request only to be told 'not needed'. What are the chances next year they'll ask for it?  

Chances are excellent ???? However I think we're dealing with two separate issues here.  Yours is whether we'll need a TM30 when going for an extension, which seems to depend on the whim of each office.  The other issue is whether, on return from an absence, it's a requirement to register a fresh TM30.  It seems the answer to the latter is no, but I guess that too could vary among offices even though there seems now to be no such requirement in the law.

12 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I was told that at Buriram Immigration a month or so ago. Reported the fact on here.

Is there any indication whether it matters how long you were gone?  My understanding is that it shouldn't, but I wonder.

On 9/14/2022 at 1:57 PM, khunPer said:

The TM30 registration has been changed for expats, so if you live in the same place, you don't need to register anymore, even if you temporary stay in another province, or take a trip abroad and enter on re-entry permit. The TM6 arrival-address card has also been (temporary) cancelled. I'm glad to hear that it seems like Samui Immigration has decided to follow these changes in practice...????

I'm aware of that change but I'm not sure it solves the problems.  For example, if you live in Samui but go to stay in BKK for a month in a hotel or service apartment, the hotel will register a TM30 for you online on arrival.  When you go back to your home in Samui, if you don't register another TM30 with the Samui address, I wonder if that BKK registration will foul you up when you go back for your extension of stay (in my case a retirement extension) because your current address will show as BKK, the last place a TM30 was registered.  If so, I guess you'd have to register a fresh TM30 showing Samui as your address.  Or maybe the BKK TM30 won't change your "residence address" in the system, I've seen a post that indicated that but not sure.

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Negative. That visa, like all visas, allows you to apply for entry into Thailand. Immigration has the discretion to, in the OA case, stamp you in for one year. Or to not stamp you in and send you back whence you came. Or stamp you in equivalent to valid period of required health insurance. The visa is certainly NOT the permission for a length of stay.

Well if you want to think of it that way, fine.   You're using the word "apply" in a pretty informal way.  I look at it differently.  I believe when you "apply" for entry is when you apply for a visa.   Once you qualify, pay for it and get the document, you have a right of entry and right to stay for the term.  Otherwise what have you paid for?  You seem to think you've applied for (and paid for) nothing more than "the right to apply" to an airport officer.  That would suggest the officer is the one exercising executive decision-making and may well stamp you in for say 2 weeks despite your having a one-year visa, just cause he feels like it.  Not likely, if he wants to keep his job.  It's true that ultimately all Immigration departments retain discretion to turn you away regardless of your paper.  But if they want to keep the system going (and not lose all their visitors and expats) they will not arbitrarily exercise it and they don't.

But look, I've said my piece and if you still prefer your analysis that's fine.  In fact I don't think we disagree on how things work at all, this is semantics.

On 9/13/2022 at 8:17 AM, JimGant said:

The quote about a visa being a permission of stay is from TerraplaneGuy

Correct.  I don't think it's productive to get too deep into these semantic distinctions but I stand by what I said.  When you first enter Thailand with a visa (for example, a non-Immigrant OA retirement visa) that visa entitles you to enter and stay in the country for a certain period (in that example, one year).  There is no separate or additional "permission of stay".  The visa is the permission.  This is the case in all countries I know of; after all, if a visa were purely an entry document you would have to leave the minute you entered unless you had a separate "stay" document, which I can't say I've ever seen in any country.  Every visa has a term of stay specified for it.  It is only when the visa expires that, in Thailand, you need to get a separate permission of stay, which the Thai regulations (Police Order 327/2557) call an "extension of stay".  In many other countries they would characterize it as an extension (or renewal) of the visa itself, but that is not how the Thai regulations put it. 

Maybe they'll introduce new terminology for the LTR but that's my understanding of the existing visas.   Hope this helps clarify my post.  ????

13 hours ago, JimGant said:

There's another BoI site that addresses LTR application. Click on this:

https://visa.boi.go.th/

 

Click on "Documents Required for Wealthy Pensioners" then note item 10 under "Evidence of Income:"

Hmmm. Doesn't exactly match the income evidence found at this site:

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

 

Anyway, believe the latter site is the main man. The site with income tax evidence appears to be a lash up of LTR added to an older SMART visa site...

 

... but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence that everyone's on the same page at BoI

(also note the requirement for a photo -- didn't someone on this thread get asked to provide a photo (?) -- so maybe it is a requirement...

Thanks, this is really inconsistent of them.  The first site requires a tax return (or "tax payment" which makes no sense as it wouldn't in itself demonstrate level of income), the second site only requires "Evidence showing the incomes in current year e.g. pension".  The inconsistency is that a tax return shows income in the previous, not "current" year.  How you could demonstrate "annual" income in the current year remains a bit of a mystery.  I'm guessing they will insist on a tax return or other proof of income for the full preceding year, but then they may also ask for proof of continuing income in the current year.  For example, if you apply now, they may want to see you earned the required amount last year (tax return) but also evidence of continuing income since January of this year at the required level (pro-rated).  The latter could be hard to prove if you rely on year-end statements.

6 hours ago, gearbox said:

Last time I did my extension I didn't supply any proof of TM30. My gf registered me online via the mobile app and I had a screenshot, but I didn't print it or showed it to anyone.... nobody asked for it.

Good to hear.  Yet the TM30 is on the document list of Samui Immigration for extensions (they don't actually call it that, they call it "Document for the Notification of the Residence of Foreigners").  You must have got lucky.  Did you submit the household book and lease ("house rental contract") which are also on the list?

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I supplied a Verification of income letter from my Pensions retirement system.  The verification of income shows my monthly benefit and when it started as well as stating it is a defined benefit pension which is a Lifetime Defined Benefit which will only increase as COLA's are added and will never decrease.  I know that this a rare type of pension in todays world.  I also submitted my past years US Income tax return with certain items redacted.

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I supplied a Verification of income letter from my Pensions retirement system.  The verification of income shows my monthly benefit and when it started as well as stating it is a defined benefit pension which is a Lifetime Defined Benefit which will only increase as COLA's are added and will never decrease.  I know that this a rare type of pension in todays world.  I also submitted my past years US Income tax return with certain items redacted.

Sounds like you’ve got it covered, as you’ve evidenced both past and forward-looking income.  Just a bit frustrating that they haven’t explained what they’re looking for.  

For the Wealthy Pensioner category they require annual income "at the time of application" of $80K (or $40K if also investing in Thai property etc.).  This is different from the Wealthy Citizen category where the $80K income has to be "in the past two years".

Has anyone confirmed how they determine the Pensioner's annual income "at the time of application"?   Presumably they would want to look back at least 12 months, although in theory they could look at a new pension document that shows you are now receiving at least say $9k/month and will continue to do so for the next year.  Or they could insist not only on going back 12 months but on seeing a full calendar year's income, so that for example if you applied in June they would want to see you earning at the rate of $80k/year for 18 months (the year ended in December plus the recent 6 months).  Any info?

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes the annual visit is the equal of doing a 90 day report and that is it, it is not for getting a permission to stay stamp, it is a 1 year report equal to the 90 day. You can leave the country many times and re-enter as you wish with not having to do a re-entry permit, and each time you return you are stamped in for a year based upon having the 5 year visa sticker in your passport.  Many folks are trying to equate it to the Elite Visa which it is not.

Thanks - where is it written about the report being equivalent to the 90 day? Also has it been said whether you’d have to submit a Form TM30 along with it (as some offices require with a 90-day report if doing it in person)?  

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. And it sounds like all must go to Bangkok (One Stop Service?) to get your LTR sticker visa. Then, you need your "permission of stay" stamp, which only comes from Immigration. And, "permission of stay" stamps only come in one flavor -- for ONE year (not five, meaning, a visit to Imm every year to get your new ONE year permission of stay stamp). What facility, then, would a LTR visa afford me, over my current "must visit Imm every year" for a one year stamp?

 

...

Do they really call it a "permission to stay" for the LTR?  Where is that written?  It makes no sense because a visa IS a permission to stay.  So how could you need an annual "permission to stay" when you already have a 5-year visa?  I saw someone post that the annual report will be like a 90-day report.  If that's so, it makes more sense and would also be a lot simpler than the piles of documents you need for the annual extension of a retirement visa.  So that would be one advantage of the LTR.

Has anyone confirmed whether, for the wealthy investor and wealthy pensioner categories, where they require investment in Thailand of $500,000/$250,000 in Thai government bonds, foreign direct investment or Thai property, you can invest in a mix of two or three of those categories (e.g. a split of bonds and property) to reach the 500K/250K threshhold?

12 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

That is the way I see it.  I know of plenty of folks who have a work permit issued through the BOI and they do their 90 day reports at the BOI instead of CW, and the B-Visa is issued through the BOI as well if they are working for a company aligned with the BOI.  As soon as I know more I will post again.

Thanks, good luck with yours and yes please update.  I would love to see more detailed information on the requirements.  As for Immigration, maybe they've been pushed aside but bear in mind, a work permit is somewhat different from a visa.  It's the visa that gives you the right to be in the country and that's surely in Immigration's ultimate authority.  They're the ones who can turn you away on entry (or deport you if you're already here) if they decide your visa is invalid (even if for the LTR visa that involves them consulting with the BOI).  I'd expect them to issue regulations or one of those Police Orders that brings this visa within their overall scheme of who is allowed to be in the country, since they list all of the existing visa types.  But who knows ... This is Thailand ????

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Immigration has nothing to do with the Cabinet approved LTR Visa, it is the BOI from start to finish.  After approval you will be given an approval letter: Per the BOI PDF:

 

"Qualified applicants may proceed with applying for LTR Visa issuance at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or Immigration offices in Thailand within 60 days from the issuance date of the endorsement letter. The processing fee for the 10-year visa with multiple entry is 50,000 Baht per person"

 

The only thing immigration will do is affix the visa since it will be given initially as a 5 year visa in your passport after being authorized by the BOI.  Still not sure where the 50K is to be paid.  I am waiting on the final approval for my LTRWP endorsement since I applied on September 2nd, and have received an e-mail indicating it is under final consideration.

 

https://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/LTR.pdf

Thanks.  I've seen that pdf.  Well it sure seems strange if Immigration isn't even involved.  I can understand if there was a political push to get this done and since the objective was economic, the Board of Investment took the lead. But from an administrative perspective I wonder how it will work out.  Immigration will surely still have to be involved - for example in receiving and approving the annual reports, whatever they turn out to be, and in enforcement (e.g. imposing fines or cancellation if a LTR visa-holder breaches a requirement).  So they'll have to be liaising with the BOI on an ongoing basis, I guess.

Has there been any publication by the Immigration Bureau on this new Long-Term Resident Visa?  I know the Board of Investment has published some rules (not very detailed) and is accepting applications but it seems the BOI is an entirely separate body from Immigration and I don't see how they can issue visas, which one would think is a function exclusive to Immigration.  I've seen nothing from Immigration on this topic.  

2 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

You only need to upload the owners ID and house book during the one-time registration process to obtain your userid and password. I also uploaded the ID page of my passport when I registered as the housemaster of my wife's house.

But since, as I understand, you only need to file a TM30 when you change address, won't you have to upload those documents every time, since it will be a new owner each time?  Or do they forget about that and just accept new filings for new addresses despite your obsolete initial registration?

On 8/24/2022 at 10:57 PM, problemfarang said:

Their website freeze sometimes. 

Use the mobile app. I did it. Its so easy and tkes like 5 min to do and less document then website.

 

Search for ^section 38^ its a blue app

 

Good luck

Using the app, do you need to upload copies of the owner’s ID and house-book?  Some Immigration offices require those if you file a TM30 in person.