hookedondhamma

One last question. Monks seem to wear different colors of robes. From orange through to brown. Do the colors worn have any significance (other than the saffron/ ochre relationship) in terms of stage of learning etc?

Nope. It appears certain temple monks all wear the robes of the same colour. Generally the more bright orange the more city the monk is. So called forest monks (who generally are not forest monks!) like to wear brownish robes and wouldn't be caught dead in a bright orange outfit - fashion basically.

Nothing like living in an area with many wild animals of different types only to potentially find yourself in a dangerous situation due to your flourescent orange robes that scream 'look at me, look at me!'

I wish a certain monk hadn't been wearing his bright orange robes a couple years' back when an elephant easily saw him, became frightened by him and trampled him to death.

when the Somdet of tue dhammyut order recently proclaimed for monks of it to switch to the orange color, no one in the forest temples took word of it. Go figure.

There were some great posts by Thais on other internet forums that brought up info from luang dta maha bua as well as ajahn mun. If one does the searching they'll come across them, though one must be able to read thai.

no problem going to the city and switching colors to conform to the standards of that temple.

On a side note, sometimes robes come out the opposite of what one intends them to be I.e old dye which is labeled as this color but packaged as another.

The colors that are used in the present probably represent tue colors which monks were able to extract from the available materials around them.

chem. Colors were later introduced by the powers that be as they were more consistent and rich in color (thailand). There's an article on this as well (google).

But colors which they wear I wouldn't call fashion. There is depth to it.

Let's be clear about one thing, there are rules for monks (primarily the 227 precepts), and immediate consequences if they break them (disrobing etc). For lay Buddhists there are guidelines (the 5 precepts), which people keep if they want to attain nibbana, but there are no rules as such. So a lay person can't be called a hypocrite for failing to follow the precepts unless he is claiming everyone should follow them.

To answer the OP, which mostly referred to monk's behaviour, one only has to look - in the Pali Canon - at how monks were expected to behave in the Buddha's time. Basically, they were in the monkhood to attain nibbana, by meditating, listening to sermons, and following rules of behavior. Their relationship with the laity was that the laity provided their essential needs and in return they taught the Dhamma. Anything other than that, the Buddha probably wouldn't have allowed.

Most of the problems mentioned in the OP have come about because these days most monks aren't in it for nibbana, and because the laity expect various services from them other than teaching.

There is also a group on thai visa that loves to preach their knowledge on what is to be buddhist or a monk, when in reality it's pretty apparent they have no idea. It extends off the internet and is one reason many english speaking thai monks don't really enjoy interaction with foreigners in general (obviously excluding monk chat at the lanna campus in chiang mai) - too much 'I know already.'

There's a great website called access to insight. Org and it is pretty valuable from r those with genuine curiosity about Therevad a Buddhism.

well, answer me this............are the above mentioned a [Thai] cultural wrong doing or is a Buddhist wrong doing.

I'm not trying to bash Buddhism or Thai culture, just trying to understand.

I would say culture. I came to the conclusion that a lot of culture crosses into what is Buddhism, things get more relaxed etc. ... but then people start to complain (especially if it gets onto the International stage) and 'action' is taken to prevent it.

The problem is by then it's too late - action wasn't taken before so why now?

Truth be told it's not even worth questioning - just keep working on progressing your practice.

TP is so gross - I won't go places anymore that don't give you a decent bum gun.

Agree, but how are you drying?

I prefer of course to have the attendant do it, but otherwise I take the opportunity to practise my yoga under the hand dryer:

It's a headache.

At one time things were probably in order to an extent for the sangha council, but as time went on they were to afraid to correct their friends when they were obviously in the wrong.

Now it's somewhat late to try and stop things ... that is if they wanted to try.

I highly doubt things will change; the world sees more and more of this but they don't really care about how they are percieved from the outside.

Can't even count how much nationalistic drivel I have heard in the form of 'Dhamma' talks but it is often what puts a smile on faces here.

What is even more odd are the people that support him (or any other monk involved with acts that deviate from what they supposedly tested on in the Dhamma exams). Many say corrupt monk this and corrupt monk that, but both these laypeople and monks both are apples from the same tree.

the good thing is not all of them are like that, though, but no attention is given to those who are a little more stern in practice.

I thought his name meant 'freedom' but I haven't seen his name in thai yet.

It's common for monks to take on some pretty high names.

I know a phra vinaya, a phra moggala and a phra tep.

It doesn't necessarily reflect their habits and or personality though.

It's kind of similar to parents that name their sons after the holy angels, and they turn out to be the little hell-on-wheels.

That is so thai!

I've lived here 37 years and have seen monks all over Thailand, including southern provinces, accepting alms money. It is supposed to be passed on to the funds manager/trustee at the home temple at the end of pindabat.

And it does for the most part. Thais are aware of the vinaya to an extent, and many will ask beforeplacing it in the bowl - many of those that do then place it in a plastic sleeve or envelope, to which the laymen will take out and put it in the donatio box for projects, electricity (of course there are exceptions but doesn't mean all do as such - it sure does give the busybodies some stuff to gossip about for a while though)

It's fascinating that some get so fed up with it - accepting things as how they are is better than going out of ones way to be angry. Thailand isn't perfect by any means nor is anywhere else.

One of the monks I lived with used to be in the Dhammakaya sect. Wouldn't say why he switched to the dhammayut order but I have a feeling the Dhammakaya was a bit too demanding for him.

Their Pali language primer is excellent, and always flys off the shelves as soon as it hits the bookstore across from thammasat uni.

I think they center around education, money, and the elite.

Ten years in Thailand have never seen racism against anyone, except from Thais to anyone that isnt Thai. 2nd post in a month for the OP stating he feels racism exists, firstly from potential employees and now expats. Sometimes it isnt down to ones colour or culture that they are rejected or not particulary liked but down to the way the individual comes accross.......and sometimes it is imaginary. Would be nice OP if you post the 'highest forms of racism' you have experienced so wehave more of an idea what you are going through.

like no thai have ever called me a NIGGA, i dress well like a teacher that i'm. i have sat down with expats and they say,hey man what are u doing here (in Thailand) i reply i'm a teacher' i see they all looked each other..and one stupid one asked..'are u kidding me? what school? and i don't have a job?....i cant really count these meetings..i applied through and agency to get a teaching job, they bluntly told me that the agency will never put a black man on their radar..i told him i was in a school that don't really care about color but want to only take me if i had an agency buy they still refused

Why is it that a black person can call another one nigga but if someone else does it, it's racist

now please, don't try and derail the topic more.

I am glad you are safe!

Forget about angry birds, it's all about angry farmers! !

I feel sorry for you, boomerangutang, really. - I have a 'similar' problem with crowing faucets/loud roosters. Makes me crazy. Sometimes. Each night. -

Don't know if offering money to the abbot would solve the problem. You should try it nevertheless. -

Better might be to move, at least sometimes. If possible. - Take a trip to the sea or visit friends. Or sleep in a house in the garden, far away from the village...

If you would like to visit our place just send me an PM. Don't be afraid, I / We later would love to hear your wat's music/prayers personally...

Thanks for the compassion; something which is sorely lacking among Buddhist head monks in Thailand.

BTW, the glitzy wat near me is still playing that same song on a tape loop. morning and evening. at least 15 minutes before the national anthem. I now love to hear the nat'l anthem, because it indicates the end of the tape loop.

I won't offer to pay money, in the hopes the head monk will be decent. Two reasons: I don't have extra money, and I don't like the idea of bribing someone to not annoy me (and the community). This is what I'll do: I'll write a note using Google Translate - and try to get it to His Holiness. It may be blocked by the monks who protect him (sounds like mafia, doesn't it?). I could also write something in Thai and post it at a few places in the village. I can't organize resistance for several reasons:

>>> I'm not fluent in Thai, and don't have a Thai g.f./wife to do that sort of thing.

>>> I'm a farang, and therefore have little rights in Thailand, even if I lived here 65 years.

>>> In Thailand, The Sangha can do no wrong. It's sacrosanct, untouchable.

compassion is comprehended a bit differently with thai monks (thai compassion). As is common sense (not from a western view but a thai one) - (chatting as loud as one can when it's 2 in the morning, touching and/or then taking items which don't belong to them only to recieve it later broken 8 times out of 10, complaining how cold it is outside then opening a window, asking another thai monk how to say this or that in english knowing good and well he can't speak it ... the list goes on and on).

Doesn't apply to all of them but many won't say a thing out of fear of being labeled as 'jai dum'.

if the noise stops congratulations; but unless someone personally destroys the system I would expect hell to freeze over first.

your written letter will just be thrown in the trash after he comments something like 'falang bla bla bla.'

The only ones who can manage to get him to listen will be thai. Even if you could speak and write fluently in thai his falang blinders are cemented on.

When my wife first came to the USA she couldn't boil water to cook and egg . Nor could she cook Thai food .. After a year or so of looking on you tube and making some things I can say she is not a good cook she is an excellent cook . Now here in Thailand she bakes anything I want , if she can find it with google she can cook it and its always good . Pizza is the best !

My daughter is LK and 22 years old. She will finish her art "studies" (i use the term very loosely after seeing her facebook pages) in London in the summer and wants to come to Thailand to be a teacher. She has dual nationality, speaks Thai but cannot write, but do you think that she will face discrimination, or difficulties ?

A friend's daughter just returned to Thailand after 10 years away.

Educated in an Int. School in BKK to the age of 12. Then in Australia for secondary and tertiary. She just got a job teaching and the agency told the school she was half-Chinese and told her to go along with it. The school has had a lot of resentment issues from the Thai teachers against the foreign English teachers there (shoes thrown in toilets etc.) and they think it would be too risky to have a known half-Thai but Westernized English teacher there as the Thai teachers might explode and kill her for daring to be so.

shoes in toilets? ! Sounds like children throwing temper tantrums.

And this guys supposedly a monk?!

....Shouldn't he padding round the streets barefoot begging for food or tucked inside a temple chanting ?

ooh a last thought (off topic) what's happened to Mr. private plane and i have stolen lots of money monk?

no, he's obviously not a monk. I thought western logic would've figured that out already.

oh well, it gets big hits in cyberspace.

Which earplugs are good quality? The ones I get on planes seem to fall out.

the green ones by 3M are great - they block out alot but you can't hear if someone comes uo to you and asks a question.

The pair I have now was given to me by the nurses in a hospital in Buengkan province. They're similar to the 3M but you can hear when people talk - they take the edge off the loud voices though and tones down racket from the speakers in the mu bahn.

Moving may not help, every chance they'll start to do it in the new place. "Noise pollution" from a variety of sources (Wats, parties etc; in my village the village chief has taken to blaring sounds and announcements at an ungodly hour) is a fact of life in Thailand.

I keep earplugs by my bed.

I agree about the earplugs. I have always had a pair with me since after about two months living here.

'caud we negatib and hate Obama.

lol, good one - you have the hoodrat speak down pat lol

Who cares? Can you not get any sleep at night due to an anonymous person's posting (s) on this forum?

There are people who don't like their living conditions everywhere in the world.

Not every pisses vodka and s#!Ts marshmallows.

Lol, I'm kidding with you op. But expect worst responses; this topic is very original.

Sounds as though he is trying to gain some fame.

It doesn't take anyone long to realize this whole ordeal will end anytime soon.

he will either cave in and eat or die.

How I wish France would have dominated over England in pre-revolutionary days. It would be great if Americans spoke french instead of that weird assed language you call english.

Always something to moan about, no?

Things just aren't as stringent these days. He won't disrobe unless something grave happens or he has had enough public pressure.

Wow ....

Thainess is probably a fierce love of their country, and everything in it.

I don't think it's good or bad, it just is.

The weather is pleasant.