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Mark1971
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Posts posted by Mark1971
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Hi,
My wife is originally from Chiang Rai & we would like to move back there.
The main thing which is stopping us is our childrens' education.
From our research, CRIS seems like the best option for a western education in Chiang Rai.
Would be interesting to hear which school the OP's son is attending.
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I would try something like:
2 Rai of mushroom houses.
8 Rai of fish.
10 Rai of hydroponic organic vegetables, to sell to restaurants / hotels etc.
Hi Mark,
I like your way of thinking.
Do you find it easy to find buyers for your produces?
When it comes to farming in Thailand, I am just an internet warrior.
We live in the UK but my work takes me all over the world, so I have a lot of time for research.
However I have dreamed of jacking in the day job for the last 8 - 10 years & moving to Thailand.
If you want to go, either:
1. Do it now while you are still young & gently dip your toe in the water.
or
2. Work your ass off until you have a UK based passive income that will cover your needs, move to Thailand & do the farming as a hobby.
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If it was just me & the wife, I wouldn't wait the 7 - 10 years.
I would start ASAP.
My income target would be 100k Baht a month.
My target living costs would be 40k Baht a month.
Step 1.
Dip your toe in the water.
Rent out your house in the UK.
Move to Thailand for 1 year, rent some land, rent a house, buy a pick up truck & start farming to see if you think it will work for you.
If you decide it's not for you, sell the truck & move back to your house in the UK.
You will still be young, have had an interesting year out of the rat race & haven't lost anything significant.
If it works out move to step 2.
Step 2.
Buy a house & land.
20 Rai of farmland with access to water.
1.5 M Baht to build a house.
Use your experience from step 1 & don't put all your eggs in one basket.
I would try something like:
2 Rai of mushroom houses.
8 Rai of fish.
10 Rai of hydroponic organic vegetables, to sell to restaurants / hotels etc.
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You won't need 200k/month. We live on about 45-50k/month quite comfortably but no schooling involved.
If you can earn 100k (a sensible goal) then you can save and have a nice stash for the unexpected stuff that will of course happen.
You will struggle to earn more than 6k/rai/year from agriculture (10k if you invest in irrigation) and land is generally too expensive now to make it worthwhile.
Probably best to think of animal or fish farming but they need a lot more of your time so you need to be living here first.
Once the kids have finished school, 40 - 50k a month in Thailand will do us fine.
Especially as we will have, no mortgage & no debts.
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OP
I was in a similar position to yourself 7 - 10 years ago.
The wife now owns 200 Rai in Chiang Rai, plan is to do rubber & fish in the future.
(We are still in the UK & have decided to defer any further Thailand investments until we are living there full time).
My focus right now is on my children's education & building up my UK assets / pension / passive income.
There are many things you need to think about carefully.
1. If you have, or plan to have children, do you want them educated to International standards?
This is very very expensive in Thailand.
Medical insurance is another big cost in Thailand.
100k a month is ok for a Thai family, or a couple, but it isn't enough for a western family with 2 kids.
If you want a basic Western standard of living, 1 x car, medical insurance, 3 bed house rental fee & international school fees.
Plan on 200k B a month.
Remember the kids won't be able to travel from the village to the International school every day, so you will need a house near the school.
2. Farmland in Thailand is very expensive compared to 5 or 10 years ago, very difficult to get a decent ROI from farming if the land costs
150 K Baht per Rai.
3. All of the assets you build up in Thailand will belong to your wife. If your marriage breaks down, worst case you will be returning to the
UK in your mid 40's to start again penniless.
If you have read 1 - 3 and still want to make it happen by farming in Thailand, try not to fixate on the size of the land.
Find a couple of more specialist or technical ideas that will work on a smaller piece of land, 5 to 20 Rai should be enough.
i cant get my head around 200k a month,
i agree with everything else
Will try not to turn this into an argument, like the one about the price of pineapples. LOL
200K a month is what we will need if we relocate to Thailand, while the kids are still at school.
The kids are half Thai, but due to living in the UK they think of themselves as 100% British.
Therefore to be fair to my kids, providing an International standard Western Education is a must if we move to Thailand.
International school fees for 2 kids in Thailand = > 100k Baht a month, including the extras (Transport fees, uniform fees, extra sports fees, book fees etc)
There aren't any good International schools located near our land, so we would have to rent an apartment or house near the school. = >15k Baht a month.
Medical insurance for 4 people 10k a month.
That's 125k a month on things that would cost zero in the UK.
Of course others do things differently & avoid these costs, but these are the costs I would incur.
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OP
I was in a similar position to yourself 7 - 10 years ago.
The wife now owns 200 Rai in Chiang Rai, plan is to do rubber & fish in the future.
(We are still in the UK & have decided to defer any further Thailand investments until we are living there full time).
My focus right now is on my children's education & building up my UK assets / pension / passive income.
There are many things you need to think about carefully.
1. If you have, or plan to have children, do you want them educated to International standards?
This is very very expensive in Thailand.
Medical insurance is another big cost in Thailand.
100k a month is ok for a Thai family, or a couple, but it isn't enough for a western family with 2 kids.
If you want a basic Western standard of living, 1 x car, medical insurance, 3 bed house rental fee & international school fees.
Plan on 200k B a month.
Remember the kids won't be able to travel from the village to the International school every day, so you will need a house near the school.
2. Farmland in Thailand is very expensive compared to 5 or 10 years ago, very difficult to get a decent ROI from farming if the land costs
150 K Baht per Rai.
3. All of the assets you build up in Thailand will belong to your wife. If your marriage breaks down, worst case you will be returning to the
UK in your mid 40's to start again penniless.
If you have read 1 - 3 and still want to make it happen by farming in Thailand, try not to fixate on the size of the land.
Find a couple of more specialist or technical ideas that will work on a smaller piece of land, 5 to 20 Rai should be enough.
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Canada,
Thanks for an honest, interesting & informative post.
Based upon your numbers, it looks like sugarcane doesn't provide great returns currently.
100 Rai is a big piece of land, which would cost a lot of Baht if bought now.
There is a lot of capital invested in the equipment & significant number of hours of hard work you have to put in yourself.
To me this makes sense if you enjoy the hands on work, freedom & the lifestyle.
Otherwise I would be looking into other opportunities, when it comes to replant.
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Has anyone tried that Hevea-3 hormone system? It uses their H-H 288 hormones. Supposedly it's different than the other ones that are used.
Don't know anything about it. Just had someone taking about it today.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
The Rubber price has dropped & will continue to stay low due to increasing supply.
To make rubber farming in Thailand a worthwhile venture for both the tapper & plantation owner, a move away from the current ways may be required.
For me the metric to focus on is grams / tree / tap.
From this Company's website.
This system must only be used on trees over 13 years old.
For me there seems to be a lack of real facts / data on the system.
It looks to be no more than a modification of other LITS systems which are already available, as opposed to something new.
Personally I would prefer to use the G-Flex technology which has been professionally developed by RRIM & has real facts / data to justify it's use.
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Looking at some of the "likes" that you people give out is funny.
I have noticed that people generally worship the person who has money, can make money, and openly flaunts that. I see it all over the place. I've seen people who I thought were reasonably intelligent people fall over themselves trying to kiss the ass of someone who has money. Having money seems to excuse the most bizarre behaviour and people generally applaud whatever the person who appears to have money does. The more bizarre, the more applause. Just plain weird if you ask me.
In another thread, RBH was out and out rude and condescending to me. I've done nothing to provoke that. He then goes on to insult me and then starts this thread with a sarcastic reference to me (taken in context of having just had a go at each other in the other thread.) And some of you guys applaud this behaviour?? He then makes an insincere apology, and again blames his behaviour on Lao Khao, in the other thread which gets yet more likes....
Yup. You gotta wonder what is up with the farming forum
Try to remember that this is an open forum, we are not a group of friends, with similar personalities / attitudes etc.
People on the forum have different styles, both good & bad.
For me RBH posts some interesting information, it is my job to check if his facts are correct & it is easy to ignore the stuff he posts that doesn't interest me.
There are far worse IMO, including a poster on another TV forum I read, who has 25,917 posts.
Not one with any interesting facts or data, 25,917 posts of annoying, condescending crap.
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Normal advice would be to 100% control your personal financial assets, by keeping them in the UK.
As you are 71 & have a younger wife & a very young daughter you may want to bring more of your assets into Thailand than would normally be wise.
How you finally choose to split your assets between the UK and Thailand depends on purely personal factors, such as your current state of health & how much you trust your wife to control your assets.
If you keep your assets in the UK, here are some ideas.
LSE: PHP Primary health properties.
Builds & owns commercial properties, which it leases to the NHS, Doctors surgeries, pharmacies etc)
Yields about 5.5%
CF Ruffer Total Return fund.
High Yielding FTSE 100 shares.
BP, National Grid, AstraZeneca, British Land, Glaxo etc.
Good luck whatever you decide.
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Sorry i don't believe those profit margins with so little land and so little work. If the financial rewards the OP claims were possible every Thai would be doing it. Remember if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.
I second that, there aren't copy cats like a Thai farmers whom will switch to a better crop in a blink
of an eye if those figures wore true and the country will be flooded with over supply of pineapples...
+1
and dozen of TV member would have been in the golden than gold pineapple business
PffffI have no reason disbelieve the figures RBH has quoted.
It seems that Chiang Rai has a certain type of soil, climate & topography that is required for several specific species of pineapples.
There has been an explosion in the planting of rubber / cassava on the sloping hill land in this region over the last 5 years.
Thai farmers were thinking that there was better money in rubber / cassava.
Problem is that they all do the same thing & the price of rubber / cassava collapses.
Ultimately it is all down to supply & demand.
The markets demand for pineapples is increasing at a steady & predictable rate.
Reallocation of suitable land for other uses may be restricting supply & increasing price.
(Until they chop down their rubber trees & all plant pineapples again).
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I too advocate a positive approach and have had a few exchanges with negs here.
However, any new biz idea I see I do my homework as everyone should do so.
The below is based on 30 mins research so is not final but does raise some serious questions.
The OP says the average profit is about 100,000 Baht/rai/year.
To gross that 1 rai would need to produce about 5 tons/year if the price was 20 Baht/kilo.
To make that profit you would need a much higher production of say 8 tons to cover costs.
There are 2 problems with this.
2 years ago the price was just 3 Baht wholesale. Is it really 20 now?
Even allowing that it may be Thailands average production is less than 1 ton/rai so although I know it is not difficult to improve on national averages 10 times is a bit much.
Interestingly the national averages seem to imply that farming pineapples produce around about the same returns as does cassava and a bit more than rice which kinda figures.
It seems to me there has to be something very special about a few aspects of the OP,s friends biz that may well not be easily reproduced.
More research is definetly called for.
The Dole .pdf an earlier poster attached, reports 49.95 tons / ha.
At 6.25 Rai per hectare, this works out at 8 tons / Rai.
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The website below has some very detailed, step by step farming E Learning guides on the 6 crops listed below.
Copy this into your browser.
" www.damrdp.net/eLearning "
Click on:
Package of technologies.
Then you can select an E Guide on one of the following crops:
Cacao
Cassava
Coconut
Coffee
Oil Palm
Rubber
Enjoy
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Just found a pretty awesome E Learning module on Rubber cultivation.
It is very detailed & explains every detail of a Rubber plantation, step by step.
" www.damrdp.net/eLearning/Rubber "
Unfortunately it doesn't cover my biggest obstacle, how to find honest, reliable & motivated people to work with.
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Well that's a matter of opinion. Most people my age have kids. Maybe they are widowed or divorced and they may have the ex-from-hell but they have family. My parents have passed on so I am alone. It really hits home when my bank asks for a contact or beneficiary and I have to pick a friend I met less than a year ago! Don't get me wrong I had a great time partying but I have nothing left but the memories (and a really small amount of cash considering how much I earned over almost 3 decades).
Ron,
I worry that you are going to end up in a very vulnerable position, if the business you buy fails.
You don't even have a family to fall back on, if things go wrong.
From your posts I estimate that you have about 5 Million Baht.
Your chances of making this last 30+ years in Thailand are very low.
All it would take is a period of illness / poor health, to ruin your plans.
Do you have any other income or future pension?
Will you have 1st class medical insurance?
Thailand is a really good place to live if you are single, rich & in good health.
Thailand is a terrible place if you are old, single, with little income or assets & your health deteriorates.
The best way to make money is doing what you have been trained & are experienced in doing.
You have a limited number of years left in which you can work.
My advice is to get your head down for 3-5 years at your normal job, live frugally & try to save >60% of your salary.
If you can double or triple your existing savings, you will have a much higher chance of success.
Good luck.
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On the off chance that "Reckless Ron" is a serious poster, and not a troll.
1. Minimize the risk to your capital.
If you loose your capital, it's time to go back to farang land with your tail between your legs.
2. Your posts match your name "Reckless", be very sceptical of any PM's or offers of help in reply to this post.
There are a lot of people who would love to separate you from your nest egg.
3. Do you have an honest, hard working Thai wife / partner that you trust?
Much easier to make a business work with a good local partner.
4. Making 30k a month should be easy, I can think of 10+ ideas that have a high probability of working.
None require > 1 Million Baht capital investment.
All require a bit of hard work by your Thai partner & your support.
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"Added: BTW: I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!"
If you are putting capital at risk, ROI is very important.
15 to 20 years is a long time, what if the business does ok then suddenly stops working after 8 years?
You have lost both your capital & income, in that situation Thailand is not a good place to be.
If you had recovered your initial investment after 2 or 3 years, things would be ok as you still have your capital.
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[…] I said rather then prostitute herself for over a decade which she did according to his story.
She could have used the money to educate herself and get out sooner, if that's a harsh comment then so be it, I don't see how.
It’s pretty hard to “educate yourself” when you have close to no base education and no-one to guide you. The OP did say she was intelligent, but he did not mention her academic skills, I wouldn’t be surprised if her reading/writing abilities were limited (given her background and premature exit of primary school).
Also remember that this is rural Thailand, it’s not like you can just attend community collage, or go to the library and borrow books about the subject you wish to study.
Furthermore, let us imagine she did somehow manage to find a way to finish her primary school, how long would you estimate that to take? And what new exciting job options would it unlock?
I dare say if it was achieved any job options would be better, unless you don't of coarse mind bar work, If education was un obtainable then that's different, however with the kind of cash that could set up a family, is it truly un obtainable.
I'm still confused, some relatives still live in the tin shed, I thought the family was now set through her work, I still don't understand where the family was when she was taken in by the new family whose boy got her pregnant, and why she helped a family who are such poor role models.
There are holes in the story, if the family was so bad, why is she, and worse still he giving a dam_n about them.
Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
Kawangwallafox,
I am confused why a man in your position, who has no interest in BG's is getting so agressive & heated about what other people choose to do for a living.
The vast majority of BG's were born into a life that presented them with very little opportunity.
They have the option of working hard in a kitchen, in a factory or in a field for very little money & have no safety net.
All of these options are dead end jobs & provide no opportunity to develop or progress.
Out of the limited set of options they have, being a BG has the highest chance to earn good money, build a safety net & to break the dead end cycle by marrying into a life of opportunity for her & her children.
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OP
I am in a very similar position.
Living in the UK, kids aged 6 & 8 attend a great school.
Me and the wife are thinking of semi retiring to Northern Thailand, preferably Chiang Rai.
To provide the same level of healthcare & education we get for free in the UK, costs a lot of Baht.
(Lower fees).
CRIS in Chiang Rai = 250k Baht / child / year
(Higher fees)
PTIS in Chiang Mai = 500k Baht / child / year
These are the basic costs, there are a lot of extras: entrance fee / transport fee / activity fees / book fees / lunch fees / uniforms fees etc.
To provide a reasonable middle class standard of living in Thailand, I estimate we require an income of between 120k Baht (CRIS) & 180k Baht (PTIS) a month.
Thailand isn't a cheap option, if you have kids & want them educated to an International standard.
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OP
I think you need to ask yourself many questions & add more details before anyone here can help you.
How much of your 2.5M Baht are you prepared to risk loosing?
What would you do if the business failed & you lost your entire investment?
How much income do you need to generate?
Have you any experience setting up & running a business?
How long do you plan to stay in Chiang Mai for?
Do you have a Thai partner you trust?
Do you have kids, or do you plan to have kids in the future?
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Thanks Bosse...but I've been here to long for that. I already think it's over priced. Even at 3 million, the ROI of 6.3% doesn't make sense.
Why would ANYBODY consider paying that much for this plot of land considering the poor prospect of future return?
My question is "Am I missing something?"
3 Million Baht for 30 Rai of good Rubber trees, on Chanote land title is a resonable investment for a local Thai family who want to tap the trees themselves.
Excluding speculation on future land value, which is very specific to the local area.
As a plantation owner it is a marginal investment at best.
As a farang who can't even own land in Thailand, it isn't even worth considering.
5.5M Baht for 30 Rai = 183k Baht / Rai
10 Years ago the same land was selling for 18k Baht / Rai
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Great thread.
To me the widespread commercial farming of crayfish in Thailand seems a matter of when not if.
I have no doubt that the Thai market will accept crayfish as a product. (They eat everything else, after all)
It will be interesting to see the market price which can be obtained & how large the market for the product is.
A few things to consider as this moves from a hobby to a business.
Is there an efficient & reliable way to create a male only Monosex stock?
(Sex selection by hand? Neo female creation by AG gland ablation? Hormone treatment?)
How to achieve the best FCR?
What is the most cost effective feeding & grow out regime?
(Commercial feed? Supplemental vegetable feed? Greenwater system?
Monoculture or polyculture.
eg Crayfish with Tillapia.
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£10,000 or 500k Baht wouldn't be enough to last me to lunch time on my 1st day in Thailand.
International school fees for 2 kids.= 500k / Year + 200k Joining fees
Car = 500k
Deposit on house & monthly rent = 70k + 30k
That will cost me £26,000 or 1.3M Baht on my 1st day.
Once you are married & have kids, an average western living standard doesn't come cheap in Thailand.
Some Farang can do it Thai style & avoid these costs.
Local Thai school + some home schooling.
Motorbike.
Rent an apartment, or live in the village.
Good luck to them, but for me 1.3 M Baht would be my minimum on my 1st day.
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You are right to be concerned about the ability of a new investment in a Thai Rubber plantation delivering a good level of income in the future.There was talk on thai news last night rubber bieng 60 per kilo but oil is due to rise so should increase prices.Hmmm dont hold your breath.Not surprised if next year it drops further.60 per kilo will make it difficult for some farms with less output to keep a worker.40% will just not enough for them to survive on.
Time will tell.Brest of luck to all in this difficult time.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app
Did it mention what type of rubber? RSS, USS, Fresh? Maybe Kee Yang! Just about to buy another 60 rai but not feeling very confident about the income.
Greg
Rubber prices will be depressed for many years to come.
Modern clones with double the latex yield & the massive expansion of planting in non traditional rubber areas of SE Asia are game changers.
People may say that the rubber price moves with the price of oil.
However the price of rubber could easily decouple from the price of oil, due to the game changers mentioned above.
This decoupling has already happened to Natural gas in the US, due to the invention of shale gas hydraulic fracking, which changed the game.
If you add in the recent inflation in land and labour costs in Thailand, you would be wise to rethink your idea.
+1 i'm afraid. Possibly time to sell a plantation or two, before the locals (who are still planting) wise up. I'm serious.
Mike.
When there is oversupply of a product, the price will be forced down until the supply is reduced to balance demand.
The supply of rubber will only be reduced when economics force plantation owners to stop production, go out of business, or change to other crops.
This has already happened in Malaysia, as their rubber plantations struggled to compete with the lower wages in Thailand.
It is important to look at the economics of your plantation, compared to others.
A local family who own 20 Rai, are debt free & tap their own rubber trees will still do OK, long after a farang plantation owner who employs tappers has gone out of business.
Teach me the secrets
in Real Estate, Housing, House and Land Ownership
Posted
Many people are looking for a reasonable yield on their investment, with reliable income payments and little risk to capital.
I fail to see how condos in Pattaya meet this investment criteria.
Rental voids.
Maintenance charges.
Problem tenants.
Periodic refurbishment costs.
Depreciating quality of the building & value of the condo.
This sounds like you will be buying a liability, instead of an asset.
There are many better options, eg.
P2P lending via a company like Ratesetter offers 6.2% without any hassle, and very little risk.
Royal Dutch Shell shares offer 8.8% dividend payments, if you want a little more risk / reward. (The last time dividend was cut was 71 years ago).