55Jay

Sour grapes. Yellow underestimated the situation, got outclassed and beaten fair and square. Happy to see EC cast aside Noodle-Gate and the blue plate special thing. Good for them. Call a spade a spade.

Any overturn would demonstrate Thailand as a 3rd world banana republic where democratic process is "ok", as long as it produces the results desired by the ruling elite.

On the same note, meddling by * Mr. Thaksin during the campaign might equate to the same perception, but somehow, it's just doesn't seem that bad to me. If I were Yingluck, I probably would of asked his advice and opinion during my campaign as well.

What's irritating is her continual denial of this. Just keeps insulting the average person's intelligence and makes her look dishonest already - and she's not even the PM yet! Pretty sure the majority voted for her because of the family name recognition, and moreover, because he's involved, or they hoped he would be. Best they could get was his sister, close enough, after all, even he says she's his clone. Duh!

So, OK, now she's won, parades and mind-numbing campaign half-truths and exaggerations are over with.....now you must perform AS YINGLUCK , and I hope for Thailand's sake, she's got what it takes to do the job.

If she gets caught out with overt meddling and shot calling by her brother once she has the government reigns, then she should be tossed out on her backside. Clones/Figureheads aside, he didn't get elected, she did. Time to step up to the plate.

Then again, even Obama calls in questionable figures from the past, to advise on all sorts of policy issues, including Bill Clinton even! I mean, jeez, he was <deleted>' politically impeached and lied his tail off to the country about minor issues such as receiving oral pleasure. Wasn't that long ago we all called him "Slick Willy" but now, he's played up as the wise, elder statesman! People. We sure are a funny bunch of mammals. It won't be long before Thaksin's sins are forgotten, he'll be embraced by the majority of the country, but he'll always have to watch his back..... I mean really! He's a corrupt politician? Never seen one of those before.

CapOne has a checking account/debit card that pays a little over 1% but numerous posts indicate about every 3 or 4 months their debit card stops working when using it overseas and you have to call CapOne and tell them it truly is you using the card and you are just traveling overseas....then you are good for another 3 or 4 months.

Pib, as I know I've indicated before, I've certainly had that experience with Cap One's credit card... I've never had that experience, or made any notifications or had any blocks imposed, on what now is their straight ATM card.

Roger all, thanks. Yeah, I didn't open the disclosure link for the fine print. Knew I should have.

Seems my one person initiative may be having an impact on my CU. After a number of messages to them, last indicating my requests and information had been elevated to senior mgmt. OK... Spoke with the branch manager this afternoon who said she participated in a HQ conf call end of June and one of the primary topics was the 1% and foreign atm charges. She seemed interested enough and took notes as I described the essentials of the 3 main players here, Schwab, Cap1 and SF. We'll see, but will keep truckin' with these concurrent plans. TX again, Jay.

Baht to USD sliding on back to 30.something..... Best I saw during the past week pre-election/Euro troubles (whatever) was 30.9.

You guys are ahead of me 4 hours, so no news to you. But... my first cup of coffee this morning, desktop gadget was 30.6. 2nd cup 30.4 and holding, but TVisa ticker on the top of this screen says 30.32 at the moment.

I'm just whining.

J

Pib/JFC, et al., looking at State Farm Bank website, checking account and card services. Acknowledge and agree you said terms/conditions on the Visa 1% foreign transaction fee, above and beyond ATM fees, is not always spelled out being it's an external fee. Just wanted to confirm actual practice, if you have direct experience with State Farm account and their Visa logo debit card, that:

(1) Were I to open a SF checking account, move my DDS pension to it, and use the State Farm provided Visa debit card on that account for either ATM withdraws (put AEON aside for a moment, I'm clear on that) and/or POS debit in stores, such transactions would not get the Visa 1% foreign transaction fee; or if so, be rebated later.

(2) that foreign ATM fees, such as the 150 Baht if not using AEON, are rebated automatically rather than having to call the # given in their terms/conditions each time.

Jay, I can confirm the answer to your two questions above is YES regarding the Schwab checking account and associated debit card... Schwab doesn't charge any FCF or card network fee...and the only thing they have to rebate potentially are ATM fees charged by ATM operators/banks. Others will need to comment on the SF account.

BTW, here's a photo of the new style AEON ATMs that are being rolled out, which look pretty different from the traditional ones... this one is at the newly reopened (post fire/riots) Big C store opposite CentralWorld. AEON used to have a single ATM there in a parking structure lobby almost outside the store. They now have an actual branch and two ATMs in the main part of the store on the 3rd floor right in the middle of the Big C store there.

The green tinge is a function of their florescent lighting there.... If you look at the top you'll see the list of the various card networks that their ATMs will accept. The only biggie missing from the list are Non VISA or MC logo Cirrus network cards, i.e., straight bank ATM-only cards on the Cirrus network. VISA and MC logo cards with the Cirrus logo on the back work fine.

In case anyone's wondering, these ATMs also dispense hamburgers and french fries...

Thank ya' thank ya', JFC.

Was also just reading Cap1's banking section, which I hadn't looked at before, going straight to the credit card links. Seems to offer the same perks.

I'm beating up my CU right now about all this stuff, they are not yielding so far, too bad. So I'll have to adjust accordingly, but sure be nice to have bank, debit and credit card and accounts all in one place like I do now.

Burgers and fries ok. Curry would be messy, sticky key pad. :jerk:

Pib/JFC, et al., looking at State Farm Bank website, checking account and card services. Acknowledge and agree you said terms/conditions on the Visa 1% foreign transaction fee, above and beyond ATM fees, is not always spelled out being it's an external fee. Just wanted to confirm actual practice, if you have direct experience with State Farm account and their Visa logo debit card, that:

(1) Were I to open a SF checking account, move my DDS pension to it, and use the State Farm provided Visa debit card on that account for either ATM withdraws (put AEON aside for a moment, I'm clear on that) and/or POS debit in stores, such transactions would not get the Visa 1% foreign transaction fee; or if so, be rebated later.

(2) that foreign ATM fees, such as the 150 Baht if not using AEON, are rebated automatically rather than having to call the # given in their terms/conditions each time.

-----------

State Farm Bank® will not charge You for the use of ATMs not owned by the Bank (considered foreign ATMs). Further, the Bank will rebate a foreign ATM surcharge imposed by the ATM owner in any amount assessed against a State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Account provided that there is a direct deposit via an Automated Clearing House (ACH) credit into that account during the statement cycle of the foreign ATM transaction. If there has been no direct deposit via an ACH credit into the State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Account during the statement cycle, the Bank will rebate up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle. State Farm Bank Savings Accounts will be rebated up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle.

For International ATM Fees incurred travelling outside of the U.S., please call Us at 1-877-734-2265 to have your rebate applied to your account. For those customers who receive up to $10 per statement cycle, the amount of the International ATM Fee Rebate will be deducted from your $10 benefit.

When You use an ATM not owned by Us, You may be charged a fee by the ATM operator and You may be charged a fee for a balance inquiry even if You do not complete a fund transfer.

The Bank will impose a fee to non-State Farm Bank issued cards for withdrawing cash from a State Farm Bank ATM."

---------

Last, do you make any distinction between Schwab and State Farm products and level of service? One better, more responsive than the other, etc.

Still waiting on word back from CAP1 on my credit card application.

Thanks again,

Jay

Have done it myself. Thai passport holder with a very Irish surname.

No worries.

Get a company to do it door to door. Just saves a lot of frustration especially when you are moving country. Best bit is they unpack everything for you!

Thank you, Sarman.

Jay

These days, it's certainly the exception of a U.S. institution that doesn't charge the 1% card network fee and, even worse, their own add-on foreign currency conversion fee.

And it's my impression that a lot of times, when the institution is only charging the 1% card network fee but not their own add-on, that it can be difficult To find mention of it in their account disclosures, perhaps because they view the fee as being charged by a different entity (the card networks).

Schwab, Capital One and State Farm Bank debit cards are among some of the larger institutions that are fully fee-free in terms of making ATM withdrawals and POS purchases abroad.

Some credit unions and a few banks offer a variety of special accounts whereby -- by having direct deposits, minimum balance and/or various other criteria -- they may charge the 1% fee initially, but then refund it at month's end along with any ATM fees incurred, either fully or up to some monthly amount, if the user's account has met all the required criteria.

Thanks again, JFC. It was a number of years ago and being I have a CU branch here, I've pretty well arranged myself to use that, and manually deposit local currency in my local currency bank account as needed.

I'm following up with the CU now and will do a test ATM run to make sure. All things even, really leaning toward one of the options, Scwhab, etc., route for Thailand.

Regards,

Jay

About three years ago the Thai wife and I shipped over around 1600 pounds in household goods from the States (included electronics/a little bit of everything)...should have shipped a lot less but just couldn't get the wife to part with certain things. Wife had been out of Thailand for 25 years....way over the 1 year requirement. Anyway, we shipped under her name using her Thai passport, although she is a dual citizen with Thai and American passports. Anyway, the shipment was customs free but customs did verify she had been out of the country for at least one year by checking her Thai passport to confirm her exit/entry stamps showed she was definitely living outside of Thailand because the passport stamps only showed her visiting Thailand approx every year for a few weeks. Definitely do all shipping/customs paperwork under the Thai wife's name/Thai passport/etc.

Arigato Mr. Pib. Feeling better about this one with 2 favorable responses. If you don't mind, I will send a msg to you (if I can figure out how to do it) and ask an off topic Q.

Regards,

Jay

She can ship the goods in her name. For second hand/used goods no duty (used means older than 6 months). All items can be shipped in a reasonable quantity, so 2 computers might be OK but 10 will be a problem.

Not many people do it themselves, but the few stories I have seen so far where possitive.

That's good to hear. Thanks, Mario.

J

Man, had this all typed out, accidently hit the backspace key and lost everything.

Continue planning for move to LOS, want to ship all our household goods over (no vehicles).

Thai wife has been with me abroad, on a duly stamped foreign visa/residence permit in her Thai passport demonstrating she's been living outside LOS for 2+ years..

Read on Thai Customs website and here on TV in somewhat related 2010 posts, that returning Thai citizens are eligible for a one-off tax exempt personal shipment if returning from 1 year stay abroad, which the wife unit easily falls into the category.

Am particularily interested in electronic/electrical items, being well and good used, would still attract the attention of Thai customs. In particular, we've got 2 desktop CPUs and all the common peripherals (printer, speakers, routers, etc) couple laptops, 32" Samsung flat screen TV, one of those mid-apartment sized refrigerators, and an assortment of kitchen equipment such as microwave, coffee maker, toaster - blah blah blah, all the usual things you might imagine. Large or maybe a bit unusual would be a treadmill exercise machine, a ping pong table, and quite a good cache of fishing poles and tackle.

- Sold the kayak as it is too ungainly to ship, reckon I'll get one there unless anyone on TV in the Pattaya area, has a proper fishing boat and needs a fishing partner who'll share in some cleaning&upkeep, and gas, oil and beer.... but I digress.

The shipment would be in wife's name only, I don't plan to associate hoping to let the Thais sort out Thai business in their own language, ways and means, without a farang lurking in the background - although she's got a farang last name in her passport. ?

Being the shipment will be large, it would go by ship/sea route. The shipment would end up going overland to Korat area, so a port of entry at Bangkok would shave some distance off the road trip vs. Lam Chabang, or if there's even a choice to be made by the customer in this regard?

We only have experience sending a medium sized carton via air about 4 or 5 years ago when wife was still GF. We flew to Soyouwannaboomboom airport and spent a few hours running around getting the sundry stamps and signatures, got the box opened at the Thai Customs warehouse, no extra fees, and were on our way.

Mentally prepared for a much longer, painful process for a large consignment, but first, hoping for personal accounts from TV members in this specific Thai wife/citizen returning shipment scenario. Any "been there done that" accounts would be most helpful, lessons learned, pitfalls to avoid, etc.

Honestly, not trying to play up or game the system, rather just want to keep and use our own stuff accrued over the years, rather than having the full financial outlay to set up all over again in LOS. I like my current rocking/recliner chair. Shaped to my arse and I don't want a new one!

Thanks and regards,

Jay

My CU ATM only card of the PLUS variety, does not get the 1% foreign transaction as its not a Visa/MC product

But it rides Visa's PLUS network, which is where the 1% foreign transaction fee originates. It's up to the issuing financial institution whether or not to "eat" this 1% fee. Odds are your CU doesn't -- but it's not completely unheard of.

Well s****! Another pearl. I never knew PLUS was a Visa system until you said that. Looked it up too....

My CU told me no 1% but that was a very long time ago and while I confidently said "tried and true" earlier, in practice, I haven't tested in for a long time. Wishful thinking, head in sand, more likely head in dark, moist orifice.

Thanks, I'll follow up on that and if there's been some change, I'll adjust accordingly as to plan.

:jap:

Jay

Why use the CU ATM card at any location outside the U.S. which would result in a 1% foreign transaction fee if you end up opening a Schwab account which provides a debit card with zero foreign transaction fee? Also don't forget to check out State Farm Banking. I have Schwab and State Farm accounts with their zero foreign transaction fee debit cards and prefer to use the State Farm account since it's generally easier and faster to setup funds transfer links (i.e., move money from bank to bank) than Schwab...Schwab still requires the mail-in of forms to setup transfer links with its checking & savings accounts, but you can do a online trial deposit setup using their brokerage account and then transfer money to the Schwab checking/savings account...ends up being a lot of extra transferring around. Plus, State Farm provides a higher interest rate. No need to give up your CU, but CU's many times don't provide the best or cheapest online banking service like free ACH transfers, etc....I base this statement on my lifetime of having some CU accounts, even those CU's that are military focused. While CU's are generally great for loans and face-to-face counter service, they may not provide all the capabilities/services/lower fees that larger national banks can offer, especially for living outside the U.S.

In preparing for your move (BEFORE YOU MOVE TO THAILAND), be sure to get a banking/credit card account(s) which provide: (1) free & online ACH funds transfer, (2) zero foreign transaction fee debt card, (3) and a zero foreign transaction fee credit card preferably with cash back like the Cap One card you are thinking about (P.S. the CapOne No Hassle $2%/1% Cash Back, No foreign fee Mastercard works great here in Thailand...I use it for the great majority of my day-to-day living expenses here in Bangkok).

If you don't have all three setup, you are not setup like you should be for a move to Thailand; instead, you are setup for banking fees, headaches, and frustrations which no one likes. Having all three above setup will eliminate many banking/financial headaches of moving to Thailand, will provide you U.S. consumer/FDIC protection, and make you feel like you are still banking in the U.S.. I now have myself lined up with these capabilities but did it after I moved/retired to Thailand. Before moving to Thailand I was just setup with a CU account with debit card which had a foreign transaction fee and no free online ACH transfer, a BofA account which gave $3 ACH transfers and a foreign transaction fee debit card, and several credit cards which all had foreign transaction fees.

Even through I have a Bangkok Bank account with their debit card I still have to occassionally recharge that account with deposits/transfers and, remember, there is little-to-no consumer protection for use of Thai debit and credit cards. Each Thai bank has pretty much its own card policies which is usually the bank is always right & the customer shouldn't have lost/had copied their Thai debit/credit card. I still have my Bangkok Bank account and debit card, and use the debit card periodically when I can't find a AEON ATM to use my U.S. debit cards or don't want want my U.S. banks to spend money to reimburse me for a Thai bank ATM 150 baht foreign card usage charge. I basically use my Bangkok Bank (good bank) account for its internet banking capability to pay monthly utility type bills. And to recharge my Bangkok Bank account I use an AEON ATM in my nearby Lotus or Big C, can use both my Schwab and State Farm Visa debit cards to pull out up to $1000 per day using each card (totals a little over 60,000 baht at the current exchange rate), walk around the corner to the Bangkok Bank cash deposit machine, and then deposit the money. In less than 10 minutes, sometimes less than 5 minutes, I have just got money from the States and deposited in my Thai bank account with absolutely no transfer fees and no X-business days of waiting for the money to show up via ACH/SWIFT transfer. ACH transfers from the U.S. to Thailand have pretty much become a thing of the past for me; ACH transfer now only serve as a backup to get money or if I need to transfer a BIG chunk of change within 3 business days for a near term, unexpected expense..

It's a lot easier and faster to get the bank/credit card accounts while still living in the U.S. compared to after moving out of the U.S. Be truly prepared banking/debit/credit card wise before you move. Good luck in the move.

I have been reading all the banking related posts in the past couple weeks, including best practices on moving larger sums into Thailand, credit cards and debit cards, etc.

My CU ATM only card of the PLUS variety, does not get the 1% foreign transaction as its not a Visa/MC product. Tried and true on that note being overseas the past 13 years.

Being my question/topic was about my ATM only card at AEON and the 150 chg, and being a newbie again on the forum, was trying to keep myself on topic. However, your latest responses (You and JFC) gets another nod and highlights the natural fact that a comprehensive financial life strategy overseas, Thailand or otherwise, is never cut and dry, and always involves peripheral issues which need to be considered as part of the overall plan. Even if it strays from the "keep it on topic" guideline. It's all connected.

Rest assured, my eyes are open and in fact, may impose on you guys a few times in the future as I work down my detailed LOSTD in and among the pesky job responsibilities.

End of the day, I plan to be set up more or less on the same pattern you've established - thanks for State Farm note, I'll check it out also. Thing I need to work on is the Chang Beer. Tried one a few years ago up at the Ranch, got a pounding headache after the first few swallows, and poured the rest under our chok dee wedding sugar cane thing. What happened next made me very glad I didn't pour it into the fish pond!

Thanks again, in particular to you and JFC. Regards, J.

Having a no-fee Schwab bank card and using AEON ATMs are two opposite and complimentary ends of the same spectrum....

The Schwab bank card has no VISA/MC 1% card network fee and no foreign currency surcharge on foreign transactions, as well as reimbursing other banks' regular ATM charges, including the Thai banks' 150 baht foreign card withdrawal fee, if someone really must use a Thai bank ATM.

The AEON ATMs are the best, most widely available ATM option in Thailand that doesn't charge the 150 baht withdrawal fee on non Thai bank cards, a fee that is basically is charged by all the Thai bank ATMs.

By using the Schwab bank card at an AEON ATM instead of a Thai bank ATM, you're avoiding Schwab having to pay the 150 baht fee charged by the Thai banks, and hopefully helping keep the Schwab bank card and its good features viable for the long term, and well as not submitting to the Thai banks' ripoff ATM fee.

Thanks again, think I'm on the right track.

In short, my plan is 3 fold.

1. Maintain my US CU account and use the PLUS ATM only card at AEON for routine withdraws. I've got the DDS and paying investments there so really didn't want to change all that up if I didn't have do. We'll be in the Pattaya area so hitting the AEON would be no prob. In fact, entering a semi-retirement lifestyle, sense I'll be happy to have something on my calendar - Monday: ATM Run, 0900-1000. It's the other 23 hours and 6 days I need to figure out what to do with myself. Wife unit has SCB and BKK bank accounts, so may as well deposit some of my ATM bootie in there. Keeps her happy and is another aw shitte tool in the box.

2. Likely open a Schwab account, link to my CU account and keep some loot there. If something happens with the CU ATM only card, or if on the road and need an ATM, and no AEON is available, it'll be a nice back up to have in the wallet. Agreed on not abusing the Schwab card fee rebates. I'm not going to be "the guy" who helps kick that golden egg goose in the beak.

3. As my CU cashback Visa credit card takes the 1% foreign transaction fee, have applied for a Cap 1 MC 2%/1% cashback and would use that routinely to accrue the cashback. I am working the <deleted>' strip off my current CU cashback, which is 1% up to $10,000 and 1.5% over $10,000 in the year and have done very well so far. However, Cap 1 has the edge and the great deal on 1% avoidance. Understand the MC might get a smidge less FOREX than Visa but not going to wring my hands over it. Gotta give a little bit somewhere to keep the man happy. Regards, J

Pib's correct above...

AEON machines will accept all U.S. issued VISA and MC logo debit cards...

And for non VISA or MC logo cards, such as straight ATM cards, AEON ATMs will accept those with the PLUS logo on the reverse. But AEON does not accept non VISA/MC logo cards with only CIRRUS on the reverse.

For any bank card that AEON ATMs accept, there will be NO 150 baht withdrawal fee ... unlike the Thai banks. And the exchange rate will be as good or better than what you get from any Thai bank transaction...even apart from the Thai banks' 150 baht withdrawal fee on non-Thai cards.

Thank you Pib and JFC, that's exactly what I asked, needed, and hoped. Still may open a Schwab before I move my tent over to Pattaya as a ready back up + the Capitol 1 MC credit card for purchases.

Thanks also to Weatherman if he responds after visiting the ATM on 6/29.

Regards,

Jay

wishIwas49 acct from 2007 now closed, 55Jay going forward. Cheers, J.

Interesting question. I am guessing that the ATM's you use now, in whatever country that is, is part of the COOP network and thus your CU will reimburse you the $1 fee because they are on the "friendly" list. (I'm trying to think back to my time a few years back working/toiling at a CU in the states as an ATM guy. Don't remember us having "friendly" overseas ATM's.

But things could be different now. For the military for example.) The AEON ATM's still do not charge the 150 baht fee. It is the only ATM I use. But whether they will accept just a regular ATM card, umm. My guess is no. I don't have just a ATM only card from my CU in the states but if I did it would not work over here. I don't even get my $1.50 international ATM fee reimbursed using my Visa debit/credit card which is ok as it's not that much. I, or if someone else can look at a AEON ATM at the Logos on the ATM and see which ones are on it, can tell you. I won't be venturing out today but Wednesday I can look and see and report back. It maybe just as easy to call your CU and ask. If it weren't for AEON not charging the 150 baht ATM fee there would be no "friendly" ATM's over here at all.

Thanks AG - Weatherman, look forward to your Wednesday eyeballs on the AEON machine.

Yes, it's one of those military type credit unions, so pretty good list of foreign bank ATMs which they will rebate their own $1.00 charge, but not any local ATM charges, such as the 150 Baht in Thailand.

When I first got my Visa debit card with them a number of years back, end of month stmt with all the 1% int'l charges for foreign currency purchases and ATMs! I hit the roof.

Soon enough though, as per the master, global financial plan for serfs, I took the blue pill and washed it down with the kool aide and became a good little drone with the 1,000 yard stare, walking around swiping my 1% Visa charge and Debit card, repeating in a monotone voice, "It's not that much, other banks charge more, my financial institution is doing me a favor by charging me less. Visa is wonderful. Charge it please" -- message repeats" AEON keeps making me see Keanu Reeves waking up in his soup pod, ripping the tubes and cables out, only to be flushed down the sewer. Reject Drone, failure to comply!

Does anyone know for sure if normal ATM cards (without MC/Visa logos) are taken at AEON?

Mine is a Credit Union ATM card (from the US) with PLUS, COOP and INTERLINK logos on the back. There is no CIRRUS logo on the back, and JF Chandler indicated CIRRUS was no go but PLUS might be ok.

Geting things organized for a move to LOS and have been reading these banking forums but wanted to clarify the ATM card.

Just applied for a Capitol 1 MC to avoid the 1% foreign currency charge on purchases, plus the other bennies.

Considering a Schwab account(s) for the 150 baht ATM rebates if using a non-AEON atm, but if my current credit union ATM will work and I can access my funds w/o the 150 Baht charge and no Visa/MC 1% tacked on, then no need at this time.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Ha Ha J

I would guess that Foreigners on extension of stay based upon Foreign income earned would be an easy place to start... as they have already sworn that they have earned income from overseas.

Foreign earned income and pensions are not the same thing. Thai income tax on pensions is excluded by taxation treaties, at least in the US treaty.

Agreed on diff between "income" and "pension". For American citizens reading thread, government civilian and military pensions, and social security payments, seem to be safe.

Anyone interested can review the treaty at IRS dot gov site, pubs, treaties, then click on Thailand down in the country list. Pretty much diplo-legal ease but you can get the gist of it.

Being retarded Navy, felt my answer was found in Article 21 and Article 20 for those with social security. Need to eye screw the parts more on interest and dividends.

Regards,

HaHa J