bangkaew

German Shepherds kept as pets tend to be great softies, but they're good at bluffing. I remember an incident where a much smaller dog insisted on a fight with my male GS, and the GS just thwacked it under the belly with his right front paw. But Bangkaews are natural fighters, and really seem to enjoy a scrap.

A friend has a female GSD and I call it the best dog in the world, amazing temperament. She does not stand for any nonsense from my BK either though. When he would go there she would keep him out of the house like he was one of her flock. No good for me though as she is pretty afraid of the local dogs and will not go out. Below is the 2 of them when my BK was about 11 months. As for bangkaews enjoying a scrap, I would say my mix does not. They are natural fighters because they have so much adrenalin that they fight like their lives depend on it. The intensity and ferocity is a bit of a shock for the other dogs. Very fear aggressive because of the jackal in them.

Do agree with you, though. Why would anyone put their dog in situations where there is the possibility the dog will be involved of a (near) fight? I doubt the dog enjoys it. And it's definitely not fair on the dog.

I'm proud of my male German Shepherd as he rather avoids fights. While he does not show submission, he let the other dog know, by lots of body language and signals, that he is friendly and not in it for a fight. In case the other dog shows he is in it for a fight, I will step in between and take my dog(s) away from that situation. Why should I risk my dog(s) gets hurt?

After all, it's my duty to prevent my pack from getting hurt, either physically or mentally.

All my BK wants is to avoid conflict and as I say, his body language is enough to keep dogs at a distance. If he doesn't want to meet dogs then he stops and he jumps up in to the back of the pick-up but normally he wants to continue enjoying running about. If you were determined never to meet other dogs then you would do what indeed most Farrang's dogs do, stay home. My dogs meet so many dogs that they know how to diffuse the situation. My BK has never been hurt in a skirmish, he is just too dam_n quick and because the brown dog is so balanced he has never been in a fight.

Your assumption is incorrect - I was not referring to the dog.

I suppose I should carry my dog around in a handbag like you!

No, simply avoid areas where you know there is a high possibility of your dog getting involved in a fight.

I quite agree and my BK will not go to certain areas where he had bad experiences as a pup. The brown dog can go anywhere. Actually I have rarely seen local dogs attack, all they want is respect. I take them for a run to various different routes and the only thing that sometimes happens is we get barked at. However this being Thailand there is always the possibility of meeting dogs that are aggressive. Last time it was a Farrang's 3 dogs that attacked the bangkaew.

When I only had boxers I drove them to the beach twice a day as there was nowhere suitable for walking them around me and I did not have enough land to exercise them on. I always took them to an area where there were usually no other dogs and few people. It was not a question of whether they could "handle themselves" or not - on the one and only occasion when a pack of half a dozen stray dogs came to the beach and decided to attack the elder dog, they soon realised that they had made a mistake and never re-appeared. I simply see no reason to put myself in a position where I am likely to be involved in a fight so I see no reason why I should put my dogs in that position - although it is a long time since I had to I can probably still "handle myself"comparatively well (I was a qualified military Aikido Instructor) but I have no interest in putting myself or my dogs to the test if it can be avoided.

Now, fortunately, I no longer need to exercise my dogs outside as I have enough land (and too many dogs).

We come across a house that has a big boxer and a pitbull, luckily they are behind a gate. I think I am right in saying that a boxer is also a bully breed and therefore the exact opposite of my/a BK. My BK only wants to ignore other dogs and all he wants to do is be with and guard us. What I have seen of the bully breeds is that they go right up to the groin of another dog for a good old sniff, not much respect or circling involved. As my BK is not in to that one bit, there would be a fight, or rather he would bite (not usually a fight as he bites and then moves on or if there are a lot, they move away) . The one time we met a pitbull he was right up in the back of the pick-up pronto!

Your assumption is incorrect - I was not referring to the dog.

I suppose I should carry my dog around in a handbag like you!

If things continue as they are, trained or not, they can only get worse: he is allowed to run loose on land which is "not fenced", with the only thing keeping him there being his meals. Sooner or later he will decides to test his freedom and he may take a dislike to a neigbour's pets, livestock or young children - for which you will be directly responsible. There is no excuse for letting a dog run wild.

You obviously are not aware that 99% of dogs in Thailand are free to 'run wild'.

Even if the gardener is willing "to see the BK as his" that doesn't solve your problem: either the dog is his or its yours. It can't be both and a bangkaew is very unlikely to show loyalty to both of you - if the gardener can train the dog successfully (and judging by present performance he can't) the dog will be loyal to him, and you and your family will be the intruders.

What nonsense, a dog, even a bangkaew, can have a large family who come and go who they are loyal to. A dog can remember the scent of 100s of people and even if the family in question went away for 5 years, the dog would remember them. It might take a day or two to get the relationship right back to where it was, but after that there should be no problem. That is assuming the dog is currently affectionate and loyal to the family!

Yes, on the lead anywhere near other dogs or joggers.

I did once let mine off the lead when he was attacked by a soi dog much bigger than himself; he routed the soi dog in 30 seconds flat, and came back so pleased with himself. He wasn't too keen to go back on the lead again, though.

I think it depends on the dogs. Mine completely ignores everyone including joggers, children, livestock and other dogs but then he was socialized properly off the lead since he was 2 months old. Obviously it would be different in the city but I live next to the beach . If I had kept him on the lead at all times then I am sure I could not trust what he might do if he now escaped.

Because he has met so many soi and beach dogs off the lead, even though, or perhaps because of the fact, he is not that comfortable with new dogs, and because he has had a few skirmishes with them, he has a healthy respect for them and will always ignore them. Most have a healthy respect for him too. IMO the vast majority of soi and beach dogs are balanced and if your dog pays them the appropriate respect they will be fine. Having your dog on a lead and shooing away a beach dog so that it can not meet & greet your dog is disrespectful in the dog world. It will also make your dog more likely to fight dogs.

If however 4 dogs are too forward and impolite when they meet my BK, because he is not the most relaxed dog in the world, he will let them know that their behaviour is impolite. Exactly like a girl slapping someone for pinching her bum. I have no problem with this, my dog is not doing anything wrong and he can handle himself.

i owned a bangkeaw thai dog for 1 year

after 1 year i moved to another city and could not take him with me

i learned the following:

very territorial

liked to chase anything or anyone moving....especially young children running

not friendly to other ppl

very loving and attentive to family and those he knows

when at home barked a lot when ppl walk by that he does not know

very intelligent dog

loves to play with family

i love this dog

i hope this info his helpful

good luck!!

I would agree, accept with this bit;

liked to chase anything or anyone moving....especially young children running

not friendly to other ppl

Mine knows to ignore children. He is very friendly to people visiting and even when he sees Farrangs he does not know outside, he often thinks he knows them and submissively welcomes them. He completely ignores everyone else when out.

Cesar Millan would even be impressed.

Sorry to spoil the party, but somehow I doubt that Cesar Milan would be at all impressed by anyone walking dogs off the lead that are known to fight, particularly when they know that their route takes them past other dogs that are also known/encouraged to fight.

I am assuming that English is not your first language and that is why you got the wrong end of the stick. Let me start from the beginning. I noticed that the most aggressive/unstable dogs were white, then black and the most stable and least aggressive were brown. So when I got my second dog from the soi dog foundation, I chose a very calm, 5 months, brown pup. I wanted one about that age as it would be very accustomed to dogs - it was living in a pen of about 40 dogs under the age of 1. This dog is extremely balanced. 10 big dogs can come out of nowhere and crowd him, all smelling him at the same time. He just calmly stands there until they are finished and then they let him do whatever he wants. The Vast majority of dogs will only attack unbalanced dogs and my brown dog has never been attacked. Cesar Millan is impressed by balanced dogs and I am telling you mate, there are not many more balanced than him :jap:

My wife likes to make comics and here he is in action

Jealous, territorial, aggressive, attacking other dogs and nipping at people.

that sounds like how my bangkaew mix used to be like. From 11 months. Very fear aggressive. We then started exercising him so that he was like the most docile dog after. As well as that, implemented strict rules boundaries and limitations. Must wait to be invited out of the door/on to the furniture etc. No jumping up, eat only after every one else has, basically insist he shows ALL humans the upmost respect. Try introducing him to a friends dog, hold his rear to the dog and then let your dog smell the dogs rear. Obviously you and the friend must be in full control of the dogs. That way he can actually get to know and trust a dog because right now he is never getting to know any dogs.

Hope this helps!

• Give your dog a job! Having a task to focus on can help tremendously. Hyperactivity can come from psychological needs as easily as it can from physical needs. By giving your dog a job to do, you are removing him from his state of hyperactivity and redirecting his energy elsewhere. The task should have a clear beginning and end, and should never be considered a replacement for physical exercise. Which brings us to…

The gardener, if you are not there, has to be willing, I am sure if you paid him, to see the BK as his. He has got to take him somewhere where the BK can run along with him on a motorbike. That is a Job for the dog. Having a 500 rai yard is no good. He has to be exercised!

There is always the Phuket soi dog foundation ....

Well after meeting the dog, I have decided to keep him as he likes my fiance too, so she will be able to look after him when I'm not here.

2 days with him convinced me that I can't give him away, he is just to special... Never met a dog that became so friendly and protective so quick !!!

He did bite one women (an aunty but was warning her for a while 1st )...

As for them not swimming, he has never been to a river or the beach but 1st time down the beach and he wanted to swim to Samui

Photo attached.... Think he is genuine BK but no tattoo in his ear ??

Happy days...

that is great news carlos! You can not live in thailand and not have a banggeeeew! He certainly looks to be a bangkaew mix ....

That guy is not answering his phone. Is there anyone near who wants a guard dog for a commercial lot or something? Have you a photograph? That might help.

Quick update....

It's a boy

Thanks

worst comes to worst the Phuket Soi dog foundation will take him but I am hoping a friend of a friend will adopt him to their farm. :jap:

And frankly, most the Thais I know do want their dogs sterilized they just can't afford it. When a climic offering free and low cost sterilizations opened up here they couldnt cope with the demand from locals.

Well it is 600b here in Phuket or free if you go to the Soi Dog Foundation and yet I have never heard of or seen a neutred dog here that belonged to a Thai. I do know Thais that spend way over 600b over the lifetime of a dogs life giving pills and shots to keep them sterile but they will not spay.

This is a forum about soi dogs so I am entitled to give my opinion on the subject and that is; 1. In my opinion, and I may well be wrong, the locals want to not interfere in the life of another living thing. Therefore they do not want to kill or neuter. 2. The only real options are kill the dogs or leave them because so few will be adopted.

Of course feeding the dogs meat with medicine is a great thing and yes if you can spay them that is great too.

the romanticism of wild animals or being 'simple and poor'....

I am quite aware that the majority of wild animals live in a near constant state of fear and hunger. I was merely saying that the dogs in Phuket, although sometimes hungry, look to live better lives than many in the West.

anyhow, back to the subject at hand. i admire anyone who takes on strays. sevarl times ive done placements here, we have way to manystrays here and as the economic and lack of affordable housing situation gets worse more dogs are tossed. also, anyone helping a stray here is stuck with it, including vet bills which are way way way over a good many peoles' salaries.

That is the good thing about Thailand, the vet bills are about a tenth of the UK. I got 2 puppies who were rescues but I would agree that taking on a fully grown stray is something that should be given a lot of thought. And what makes dealing with the problem in BBK a difficult decision.

im not against cesar, its jus tthat its very hard for me to trust a dog with a violent and aggressive behavioral problem sinc e for the most part, the human owners are not able to keep up the behavioral actions to maintain the dog in its new good behaviors.

That is perhaps what a lot of trainers think. Maybe they think that the only cases where his methods are the only methods that work, are cases that are not worth it anyway. But to be fair to Ceasar, he started out rescuing abused rotts that were going to be killed. He did it for the dogs purely and then people who were willing to put in the work then adopted them. Remember that Michael Vick's pitbulls are now therapy dogs in a cancer hospice. Cesar's belief is that dogs can move on and become balanced again with exercise, discipline and affection in that order. He then was called in by desperate people who were told to have their dogs put down. He was not telling anyone what to do, he was only helping to save the animal at the owners request.

(foofoo my nasty lhasa is a prime example of if he had been in an other family he would have been put in doggy prison and probably put down for aggressive behavior and non provoked biting and erratic reactions. because we mainatain the same rules and regulations in our house for him and when we have strangers over, he is able to stay alive. but not everyone is willing to remember constantly to use the same commands all the time, never give in, always make sure the gates are shut, always make sure the dog is not approached while in his bed, always make sure that small chidlren are introduced to the dog and that there is adult supervision or dog is in enclosed area, always use verbal reprimands only since dog freaks if physically rough handled even by accident, the list goes on... he is my second 'problem dog' out of the four i have had/have, and most people are not made to live their lives around rules/regs for dealing with psychiatric canine cases.)

I only turned to Cesar when we got our bangkaew mix. As I am sure you know they are half jackal and ours anyway was quick to bite. But with daily runs and making sure he knows he is not the pack leader, he really is now a wonderful dog. When people say you should not dominate your dogs, I hope they one day have a naturally dominant dog. And we do not really dominate. Is having rules, boundaries and limitations dominating? Cesar also says that you do not get the dog you want but the dog that you need and it is so true!

But I would rather be a dog who is free to roam about with my friends but was sometimes hungry, than have everything a human thinks I need but only get out 10 minutes a day on a leash.

You seem to have a romanticized idea of and very little knowledge about how soi dogs actually live in Bangkok and other big cities in Thailand. Because there are so many dogs living in the sois, they are not "free to roam about with their friends", but have to stick to their own very small area of the soi - often no more than 50 meters. If they try to move beyond their own small territory they are attacked by other dogs or chased away by people.

And hunger is not the biggest problem for the dogs, between what they can scrounge from the garbage and people feeding the, most of the dogs get enough to eat not to go hungry. Most of the suffering comes from parasite infestations and horrific injuries from car accidents. Many soi dogs are scratching themselves bloody trying (without success) to relieve the itching caused by mange or hobble around with untreated broken bones and big infected wounds.

Do these look like happy dogs to you?

Sophon

I did say FREE to rome about right? The dogs you are talking about are not free to rome about therefore are not the dogs i am talking about. Of course I do not think those dogs have a good life but what do you suggest happens to them? Treated and put back on the street or treated and put in a pen for a year and then killed? Because for every dog like that who is adopted there are 99 who will not be. So it basically comes down to a choice of, leave them on the street, or kill them.

The big cities are not what I am talking about. I am talking about the majority of the country where the dogs are free to do what they please but do go hungry some of the time. My point is that although the people doing this are full of love and compassion, they are basically cleaning up their neighbourhood to make it nicer for them to live in. The same way that you do not get homeless people in expensive areas because they are moved on to a poor area because no one wants a homeless man sleeping outside their front gate. The people here might argue that if every soi did what they are doing - and they are doing it for the right reasons, then the problem would be solved, but there will still be hundreds of unwanted dogs and owners who will not fence or neuter their pets.

This is hilarious;

Curious bangkaew? You live in the same neighborhood as the OP so are confident all the soi dogs he is treating are owned? I don't know about where you live but where I live unwanted dogs and puppies are dumped at the temples and end up 1. not owned by the temple and 2. over run the temple as they breed and breed.

Sorry, but who is 'the OP'? I totally agree with you regarding the temple dogs, but how do you know if the dog is owned? Apparently a few years ago they told everyone that on a certain day they were going to shoot all the feral dogs on the beach so if you have a dog, keep it at home that day. Problem is that the dogs that do have homes still mate at will. Again, it is education of the benefits of neutering that is needed but even then I do not know if they would go for it.

im sure thailand will catch up to the states as far as animal care is concerned in the next ten years if the economic differences/situation changes...

in the mean time, any program involving spaying/neutering/vaccinations/feeding probably helps if only to control and limit the problem ...

bina

israel

50 years, maybe!

the amount of care that pets get is a direct relationship to the amount of money people have to spend... the less money, the less actual care as far as food/vet stuff simply cause its too expensive as we have the same problem here... the opposite direction is the pets in place of children syndrome but thats an other story...

I would say in the developing world this is certainly true and often in the west too. But I would rather be a dog who is free to roam about with my friends but was sometimes hungry, than have everything a human thinks I need but only get out 10 minutes a day on a leash.

yeah i know the show....

Yeah it seems to be that dog trainers do not like him - probably jealous, but people to whom dog trainers have said 'put your dog down and get a new one because there is nothing that anyone can do for your dog', he is a godsend. I mean how do you use positive reinforcement techniques to stop a dog wanting to bite people?

Bina, I am all in favour of what is your policy there regarding dogs and if packs of wild dogs are attacking people then it is perfectly justified to shoot the whole pack as that is obviously the pack mentality. I was not advocating stray dogs for one minute, I know I fear one will bite my wife every time she has an early morning beach run - but again most of them have homes. I was merely pointing out that the dogs are not unhappy being wild and still think are more happy than dogs who 'have a big yard to play in'. The dogs that attacked the jogger were probably having a great time. But from a human perspective, we do not like to see stray dogs that have fleas, missing fur, are emaciated etc not to mention possibly have diseases and are aggressive - but again the animal might well be happy enough. So if city strays are not dangerous, wanting to castrate them and put them in a shelter and then more than likely killed, is for us humans' sensibilities, not for the dogs benefit. I entirely accept that and go along with it as part of a civilized society.

I think you would like the 'Dog Whisperer' show on the National Geographic channel. It is a Mexican guy who grew up on a farm similar it sounds to in Isreal. He specializes in rehabilitating red zone dogs who everyone says must be killed. He has a pack of 40 dogs, mostly pitbulls, rotts, akitas etc who were originally in the red zone. In the pack all are now calm submissive with no fights. Of course he is not in favour of stays, his point is that all dogs need to walk every day and if they do not then problems can occur.

Bina, I am all in favour of what is your policy there regarding dogs and if packs of wild dogs are attacking people then it is perfectly justified to shoot the whole pack as that is obviously the pack mentality. I was not advocating stray dogs for one minute, I know I fear one will bite my wife every time she has an early morning beach run - but again most of them have homes. I was merely pointing out that the dogs are not unhappy being wild and still think are more happy than dogs who 'have a big yard to play in'. The dogs that attacked the jogger were probably having a great time. But from a human perspective, we do not like to see stray dogs that have fleas, missing fur, are emaciated etc not to mention possibly have diseases and are aggressive - but again the animal might well be happy enough. So if city strays are not dangerous, wanting to castrate them and put them in a shelter and then more than likely killed, is for us humans' sensibilities, not for the dogs benefit. I entirely accept that and go along with it as part of a civilized society.

I think you would like the 'Dog Whisperer' show on the National Geographic channel. It is a Mexican guy who grew up on a farm similar it sounds to in Isreal. He specializes in rehabilitating red zone dogs who everyone says must be killed. He has a pack of 40 dogs, mostly pitbulls, rotts, akitas etc who were originally in the red zone. In the pack all are now calm submissive with no fights. Of course he is not in favour of stays, his point is that all dogs need to walk every day and if they do not then problems can occur.

The working side of the Bangkaew breed.

Below are 2 of 4 Bangkaew mixes that are being raised to guard a building site.

The 'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan says that dogs would actually be happier if humans did not exist. He says a dog is happy when it is balanced and that unlike dogs who are pets, dogs in the wild are nearly always balanced. He says the best examples of balanced dogs are often those with homeless people. He says a street dog is happier than a dog who has a 10 minute daily walk and spends the rest of the time alone and/or couped up.

Easy to say, difficult to prove.

But dogs are certainly pack animals, and therefore prefer not to be alone.

He says that as pets are confined to house or garden they are often unbalanced - excessive barking, destroying things, aggression, anxiety etc, which wild dogs on the whole do not do. Even if a dog has a big garden, it is still fenced and therefore the dog just sees it as a big kennel. Naturally in the wild, dogs travel as a pack to find food and that is the point of a walk first and foremost. Obviously a dog needs exercise but it should also get to travel in order to fulfil their hard wired instinct. Ideally the walk should be like work for them involving body and mind. In the wild when they are looking for food they are at work and are not scenting every tree and sniffing the ground, if they did they would never get anywhere. Once they have finished work they play as much as they like. Dogs live in the moment so they do not rationalize that they have a hard life. A street dog roaming for food is completely natural and if part of a pack all the better. I would bet that if dogs could rationalize, they would prefer that life to being stuck in a garden by themselves all day every day. Even if they get steak every day.

The 'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan says that dogs would actually be happier if humans did not exist. He says a dog is happy when it is balanced and that unlike dogs who are pets, dogs in the wild are nearly always balanced. He says the best examples of balanced dogs are often those with homeless people. He says a street dog is happier than a dog who has a 10 minute daily walk and spends the rest of the time alone and/or couped up.

Great video. Originally the pitbull was called the 'Nanny breed' and the Staffordshire Bull terrier is still the only breed that the UK recommends for the family. They are so confident so are very relaxed with babies etc.

Gary, great looking dog. Have you any more pics?

If you are the pack leader that should mean that you can bring anything in to your home and your dog will respect your decision. Can not say I have that control but that is the theory! Also it normally only works if the dog submits to the cat which it sounds like yours has? It is all about who has got the more dominant energy. I have seen a cockatoo dominate and be the pack leader over 2 dogs. Wolf studies have shown that a 10 months cub can be the alpha wolf and pack leader over fully grown wolves. It is the way each is born.