Skorz

House can be treated separately from land in Thailand. I don't know of any other country that does this so foreigners sometimes find it baffling. Bottom line is house and land can have separate ownership.

Anyway, I've owned for 6 years now and I'm worried a lot less about it than some people who don't own.

The house sits on the land, to get to the house you have to cross the land. To cross the land you need legal access. The only way to certainly show legal access, or some convoluted foreign controlled house situated on the land is by changing the title deed.

As such the Thai(s) names on the title deed controls the title deed, the land and thus ultimately any structures within the land.

Before anybody pipes up, the yellow (or blue if you're naturalised) Taabian Baan does not constitute legal ownership of a house.

A contract drawn up by a lawyer may provide some sort of psudo secutiry but at the end of the day, contracts can be broken and as we all know, when it comes to real estate in Thailand and foreign ownership, they frequently are.

As I said house and land ownership can be separate in Thailand. There are no restrctions on falangs owning houses in their own name.

Is anyone, aside from a rural Thai squatter, dumb enough to pay for a house to be built on land with no legal access? If so then they can't complain if it goes sideways. You can build yourself a house on LEASED land, i.e. separately owned land. Put it in the lease but at the end of the lease the landlord can tell you to remove your house or sell it to the landowner (don't be surprised at a low offer). He is under no obligation to renew the lease, nor are his heirs or successors though they are legally required to honor the lease to term.

Tell me how I can legally own a house in Thailand (aside from a Condo or something under a 30 year lease) and how i can secure and control that house legally and for ever on Thai soil, pass it on legally and without grounds for a genuine and truthful dispute, as a component of my estate without circumventing the law. Finally tell me the name of the official government document that recognises house ownership (as a separate and legally recognised entity to land).

If you tell me all of this I will make you extremely rich and together we will go around buying houses and sticking our nations (or even our own) flags in the front garden demanding recognition as a sovereign states and diplomatic immunity.

With the greatest of respect, you've missed the point. A house must sit on land unless it's a boat or an airoplane house/flying saucer. We can't own or control land no matter how creative we or our lawyers get with leases, nominees etc. Access agreements are like any other contract - unless your name is on the back of a title dead. As a foreigner, you can't have your name on a title deed unless as a part of a company (which you can't control more than 49% of) or as a lease (which only legally lasts 30 years. Or as mentioned earlier, an ursfect.

Good luck in telling the Thai who buys the land plot on which you house sits that you intend to keep it once he's got his name on the title. of course, if you're selling to a perfectly reasonable farang andhis thai wife (which is of course illegal) then you might stand a better chance,. Until of course Mrs Thai wife decides on a whim to evict you and move her family in, open a <deleted>*king phone shop or some other random low-brow BS.

House can be treated separately from land in Thailand. I don't know of any other country that does this so foreigners sometimes find it baffling. Bottom line is house and land can have separate ownership.

Anyway, I've owned for 6 years now and I'm worried a lot less about it than some people who don't own.

The house sits on the land, to get to the house you have to cross the land. To cross the land you need legal access. The only way to certainly show legal access, or some convoluted foreign controlled house situated on the land is by changing the title deed.

As such the Thai(s) names on the title deed controls the title deed, the land and thus ultimately any structures within the land.

Before anybody pipes up, the yellow (or blue if you're naturalised) Taabian Baan does not constitute legal ownership of a house.

A contract drawn up by a lawyer may provide some sort of psudo secutiry but at the end of the day, contracts can be broken and as we all know, when it comes to real estate in Thailand and foreign ownership, they frequently are.

What is "effective minority management control"?

Only way to do this is the use of nominee(s) to dilute the voting power of the majority, which is just another way to hold majority control...

It's illegal for a foreigner to own or 'control' land though company ownership. Effective Minority Management Control through the issuance of Preferential Shares is a waste of time of the share are being issued to foreigners for the purpose of land ownership. This is a product created by the dodgy legal services industry that has sprung up around foreign land ownership in Thailand (the law clearly states a foreigner must not CONTROL more than 49%, not own (obviously ownership also means control), thus rendering preferential shares useless as a legal mechanism for the purpose of land ownership (and control).

The only option for foreign 'ownership' is a 30 year lease. It is impossible for a farang to genuinely and legally secure a lease for longer than 30 years, although most real estators will crap on about 30-30-30 ad-infinitum extensions.

if you're planning on living on your Thai land plot longer than 30 years or are considering passing your land and house onto your children after your passing, it would be wise to prepare for a counter claim on the property by the younger relatives (i.e. children, nephews, nieces etc.) of the original owners. I predict this will become extremely common in the next 10 to 20 years when a lot of the original leases (drawn up with the 30-30-30 year horse crap contract) and taken out by foreigners 10 to 20 years ago start winding up.

Most 30 year thai-farang leases have not started expiring yet as most foreigners in Thailand bought/leased less than 30 years ago.

I would not be surprised also if this has a knock on effect against all the dodgy Sales Purchase Agreements taken out over the past decade where land has been transferred to Foreign Controlled Companies through the use of nominees (and this does include the use of a Thai spouse to take ownership of land on behalf of her foreign husband!!!). This could potentially blows upon a whole 'my daddy's land was sold illegally and we want it back now' culture amongst the new adult generate of Thais.

How the local Judge views Foreign vs Thai cases, especially when it comes to land cases should be taken into consideration when planning your defence.

Two classes of shares are perfectly legal in Thailand, as in westen countries.

BTW, Preferential Shares are the opposite in meaning to their western counterpart. Preferentials in Thailand are the same as common shares in the west.

Ordinary shares are the "preferred shares" and each one has 10 votes while Preferentials have 1 vote.

Thais can hold the majority of total shares, no problem. Thais hold 61% of the shares in my company and have 610 votes. I hold 39% and have 3900 votes which allows me to keep control, ie not be screwed.

Doesn't matter how creative you are with your share holdings with regards to real estate. As a foreigner you can't control/own more than 49% of the land. efore andunody mentions houses, a house is considered part of the land if it is deemed a permanent structure. Preferential shares are meant for Thais, not for Foreigners to use as a method for their own means, regardless of what your Thai lawer tells you.

Anyway, everything is at the discretion of the officer who deals with your case on the day. Someday different rules, depending upon how much you are prepared to pay the <deleted>*ker.

Personally I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to comment on this topic as I would never put money into property in a country as xenophobic and corrupt as Thailand ever again.

Don't forget about a usufruct! Costs are 180 baht, no taxes need to be paid and can include your children too, effectively having control over the land for the duration of your live and of that of your children if you have them.

True, I forgot about that. Reason being that on both occasions when I've tried to get one done, the land officer point blank refused saying it was basically unfair on my wife.

What is "effective minority management control"?

Only way to do this is the use of nominee(s) to dilute the voting power of the majority, which is just another way to hold majority control...

It's illegal for a foreigner to own or 'control' land though company ownership. Effective Minority Management Control through the issuance of Preferential Shares is a waste of time of the share are being issued to foreigners for the purpose of land ownership. This is a product created by the dodgy legal services industry that has sprung up around foreign land ownership in Thailand (the law clearly states a foreigner must not CONTROL more than 49%, not own (obviously ownership also means control), thus rendering preferential shares useless as a legal mechanism for the purpose of land ownership (and control).

The only option for foreign 'ownership' is a 30 year lease. It is impossible for a farang to genuinely and legally secure a lease for longer than 30 years, although most real estators will crap on about 30-30-30 ad-infinitum extensions.

if you're planning on living on your Thai land plot longer than 30 years or are considering passing your land and house onto your children after your passing, it would be wise to prepare for a counter claim on the property by the younger relatives (i.e. children, nephews, nieces etc.) of the original owners. I predict this will become extremely common in the next 10 to 20 years when a lot of the original leases (drawn up with the 30-30-30 year horse crap contract) and taken out by foreigners 10 to 20 years ago start winding up.

Most 30 year thai-farang leases have not started expiring yet as most foreigners in Thailand bought/leased less than 30 years ago.

I would not be surprised also if this has a knock on effect against all the dodgy Sales Purchase Agreements taken out over the past decade where land has been transferred to Foreign Controlled Companies through the use of nominees (and this does include the use of a Thai spouse to take ownership of land on behalf of her foreign husband!!!). This could potentially blows upon a whole 'my daddy's land was sold illegally and we want it back now' culture amongst the new adult generate of Thais.

How the local Judge views Foreign vs Thai cases, especially when it comes to land cases should be taken into consideration when planning your defence.

“Crime is on the rise everywhere these days, especially in tourist areas, where foreigners are targeted. This directly affects the reputation of those areas among tourists,” Lt Gen Chalermkiat said.

He added that with the Asean Economic Community (AEC) coming into effect in 2015, the Thai government had set a national target of earning 2 trillion baht through tourism.

“Ensuring the safety of tourists and tackling the problem of crime is necessary and requires every part of society to cooperate. There is a limited number of police officers, so we need cooperation from the public to keep an eye out for crime, especially in communities such as Patong where there are many tourists,” he said.

Patong Police Superintendent Chiraphat Pochanaphan explained that Patong has about 150 police officers, not enough to effectively enforce the law throughout the whole town.

“We need 90 more officers. We have already requested these extra officers, but have been told to wait until next year,” he told the Gazette.

“There are simply not enough new recruits. Every police station has the same problem,” he said.

Col Chiraphat said that his officers were now working with volunteers to assist police in improving public safety.

Absolutely incorrect. We simply need well trained police who are motivated by things other than cash. We need men with moral fiber, who are willing to stand up to the goombahs, and enforce the law. We need a well trained police force, that has decent equipment, forensic equipment and supplies, and the backing of the government. We need men who are not willing to sell their souls for a few baht. We need spine, will, and volition. We do not need corrupt "toy police" who are unwilling to track down the perpetrators of a crime, because their superiors are being paid off, by the jet ski sh**heads, the taxi sh**heads, the tuk tuk sh**heads, the club owners, etc., etc, etc. When will these guys wake up, and smell the coffee? Does anyone believe a single work a guy like Lt Gen Chalermkiat says, when he utters such nonsense, as the public has to get involved? Sure it would be nice if the public would do the work the police are unwilling to do. Where is the Anna Hazari of Thailand? Who will stand up to the goombahs and risk their lives, and the well being of their families, if the police are unwilling to do the work of men, and instead behave like little boys all hypnotized by the glitter, and gold?

Thai men are treated like children by their women because they generally behave like naughty little boys when given an inch of slack. Cops are no exception. Put a woman in charge of reform. She will not have the same personal egocentric, face saving, dick swinging agenda as a man and will be in a much stronger position of psychological advantage over the macho pond life that currently runs amok.

Is it just me or does Anusorn Saree look every inch the text book psycho Southern Thai Taxi/TukTuk/SawngTao driver you've every had a nightmare/near death and ultimately very expensive experience with? Ever? I'm sure his even eviller twin brother/uncle/cousin runs the monthly death ride between Thong Sala and Hadd Rin

People like this care the f*ck out of me, stabby little chaps that they are...

Ahh Jim007, I thought we'd made friends! Who ever said anything about wanting to change things? Can't exactly crack open a beer outside the 7'11 at 10am where I very historically came from. For the second time, I don't live in Phuket. Don't make assumptions about me, my points within this topic are true to the point and well founded on time served experience.Those who live on the very surface of the façade have stars in their eyes and can be seen waiing waiters. If you fail to grasp the basics of what we're discussing then I wouldn't bother extending your tourist visa.

Well we kind of were friends until your Germany remark and your last crack about a tourist visa. I've been on this island for over seven years and have seen what has happened to it. Rather sad but somewhat expected... I don't have to deal with tuk tuks, jet skis and only when I go to the airport do I call and get a metered cab. So none of these things bother me. But back to the OP topic, Black plate taxis. Anyone who owns a car around here who is Thai, thinks they can put a piece of cardboard on their windshield saying taxi. Then try to charge almost double the rate of a meter taxi to the airport, beat up legit taxi drivers from other towns and nothing is done... This topic to me is like beating a dead horse. All talk and never any action from the local government. I have a slight bit of hope now the national government wants some action due to the bad publicity. But of course Phuket is an old democratic party stronghold, so I rather doubt they are going to go along with anything the Yingluck government has to say.

No offence meant Jim, I have enjoyed and learnt some stuff from this discussion. The German comment was a bit below the belt. Denmark? (sorry, joke)

Has a single complaint been made that a taxi was illegal or that a jet ski wasn't registered ?

Why do they keep deflecting away from the real issue ? (Rhetorical)

The reason they keep deflecting (and quite skilfully too) from the real issue is because the powers who really deal with these issues on a local level receive income from the jet-ski/taxi Mafia. In return for this income, the jet-ski.taxi Mafia are allowed to continue to operate. In return, the local bosses pay the regional bosses and the regional bosses pay the national bosses. This is the standard economic and political model for Thailand and most other 2nd world countries. We call it corruption (which of course it is), they call it economics. Either way, it ain't going to change any time soon.

As an earlier poster quite rightly pointed out, the only way (and I mean this quite literally) for Johny Farang to have any impact on this system without resorting to a campaign of jet-ski/taxi Mafia assignations, is to boycott the use of these 'services' without any exception.

Not quite right - it is not economics, it is called the God Father system. The God Father takes care of you and provides you with assistance which you cannot otherwise provide yourself. In return, you "give presents" to your God Father in recognition of him taking care of you. This has been going on since time memorial and as you rightly say, "it ain't going to change any time soon". It is firmly embedded in Thai Culture and to me is more akin to networking, but I must confess I am somewhat pro-Thai

Unfortunately in these system those at the bottom of the food chain face a disproportional level of suffering. In this case the tourists. If you happen to dislike tourists then I guess this system would bring you some degree of satisfaction, however this would be a rather short sighted stance to take, and a hand that shouldn't be bitten. Thailand - living in the moment !

It was only a matter of time before it was suggested that if we don't like it then we should go home. Surprised it took so long.

Feel free to give us all a logical explanation as to why living somewhere that you don't like the way things are done is an intelligent thing to do.

As basic and simple and well used as "Don't let the door...." is, it's also undeniably as logical as can be. Call it corruption if it makes you feel better, things are the way they are, you won't change them you just whine about them, explain to a simpleton like me why that's intelligent?

You'll probably find that i wasn't actually complaining., All my comments were observational (or at least intended to be). And trust me;if I didn't like it here I'd leave on the next flight. Anybody who's bought land here or who owns a company has almost certainly broken the law in some way. Thanks corrupt land official, thanks corrupt Lawyer

Another fake crackdown to trick stupid foreigners into thinking that something meaningful has been done while winking at the mafia hoods to tell them to keep on paying their tea money and it's business as usual.

couldn't have said it better myself.

Ahh Jim007, I thought we'd made friends! Who ever said anything about wanting to change things? Can't exactly crack open a beer outside the 7'11 at 10am where I very historically came from. For the second time, I don't live in Phuket. Don't make assumptions about me, my points within this topic are true to the point and well founded on time served experience.Those who live on the very surface of the façade have stars in their eyes and can be seen waiing waiters. If you fail to grasp the basics of what we're discussing then I wouldn't bother extending your tourist visa.

@nernernenerenr....pretty sure local governance accepting backhanders to turn a blind eye to daylight robbery falls outside of the law even in Thailand. Most certainly is corruption.

I agree with NerNer.... If something falls outside of a law that the government have chosen not to enforce, then it can hardly be considered breaking the law. If you are doing something that the government is allowing you to do then the fact that it may be written somewhere official that it's illegal is irrelevant. If the giving of back handers is something the government not only show no interest in policing but partake in regularly themselves then it is not corruption, it's simply the law of the land.

In March 2004 former Governor Pongpayome vasuti ordered a ban on all new registrations of Jetski`s and the plan was that by March 2011 all Jetski`s would be completely removed from Phuket Beaches.

Skorz is of course right in his first post and this is more or less how all business is run on Phuket. There are Thais and Foreigners on a daily basis speaking out or writing about problems in Phuket included here on Tv, meetings with honorary consuls and embassies,"show meetings" with the local Government and tukituk - taxi drivers, big planes about CTV cameras all over the place... honestly folks If Thailand wanted to fix jetskiproblems,taxi problems and reduce the crime rate it had been done years ago...no its a way of life here and unfortunately now and then some foreigners stand in their path of life.

Good post. If they wanted to run the country differently they would have done so long ago. Only when the people of Thailand on mass, insist that things should be done differently, will they show any signs of changing.

Which leads me to the question of why people move to Thailand and then want it to be different than it is? If you want to live in a country like England, move to England. If you want to live somewhere like Japan, move to Japan. If you don't like the way Thailand is <deleted> are you doing there?

It was only a matter of time before it was suggested that if we don't like it then we should go home. Surprised it took so long. For the record, it most certainly is corruption we're talking about, if it weren't, then they'd change the law of the Kingdom to make such 'transactions' legal and stop jailing bent coppers and politicians. Anybody who fails to understand this is either drunk, dead or dumb.

I think it's you who cannot read. I asked you very clearly to explain exactly why you don't think I have a clue as to what I'm talking about. READ MY REPLY AND FIND ONE STATEMENT YOU DON'T BELIEVE TO BE TRUE.

I'm also confused. Jimi007 disagreed with your post but then went on to talk about something completely different and hasn't clarified his comments since. He seems to be on a complete tangent!

I disagree with your use of the word corruption. For corruption to be corruption payments need to be made outside of the law. If the payments made fall inside the boundaries of the laws of the country in question, then it can't possibly be corruption. When "we call it corruption" as you said we did, we are wrong. It is only corruption if applied to the systems we are used to in the West, but that doesn't make it corruption in the country of implementation.

@nernernenerenr....pretty sure local governance accepting backhanders to turn a blind eye to daylight robbery falls outside of the law even in Thailand. Most certainly is corruption.

Sorry I was a bit curt last night... You don't quite understand the situation here. It's a long story. But part of it had to do with the local village heads or Phu Yai Ban. For instance read http://www.phuketgaz...ticle16490.html The head of the Patong Tuk Tuk association is the mayor's son. And then this site details some of what has been going on here for years. http://phukettuktuks.com Hopefully the central Thai Government in Bangkok will actually do something about the locals that no governor of Phuket has been able to do so far. But somehow I doubt it. The old system is too well entrenched now it seems.

Jim007, that's exactly what I said. The local enforcers of government policy are the phu yai bans and orbadors. they are all local boys, born and bred. All the relatives work the tourists, the cash is shared around and filters up the chain. The cops are frequently posted to places like phuket and Samui as hardship postings and will basically do what they are told by the locals because they're far away from home and terrified of stirring up local amnosity. I know this from experience I shall not discuss on these forums.

Can you read? Apparently not? I'm not going to repeat myself.

Really Jim007? That's a rather arrogant reply. On so many levels. But anyway, I'm with Skorz on this one. Living in Phuket doesn't deem you the authority on these countrywide transportation issues. I live in Chiang Mai, have visited Phuket, and see the same type of thing here. Only Phuket is famous because the amounts are so large for such short trips. 10 baht in Pattaya on the monkeybus will cost you some ridiculous amount in Phuket on a TukTuk for the same distance. I can get to places in town from the airport in BKK for around 200-300 baht, but that same trip in Phuket is well over 600 baht, correct? How about taxi meters from the airport and simple priced red cars in the tourist areas? To me, what's going on in Phuket is like stores selling marked up batteries and water after a hurricane. Shameful scamming. Or hell, how about a national rate for the various modes of travel?

Jim007 probably lives in Germany. Apathy and denial from within keeps the core rotten.

I think it's you who cannot read. I asked you very clearly to explain exactly why you don't think I have a clue as to what I'm talking about. READ MY REPLY AND FIND ONE STATEMENT YOU DON'T BELIEVE TO BE TRUE.

I'm also confused. Jimi007 disagreed with your post but then went on to talk about something completely different and hasn't clarified his comments since. He seems to be on a complete tangent!

I disagree with your use of the word corruption. For corruption to be corruption payments need to be made outside of the law. If the payments made fall inside the boundaries of the laws of the country in question, then it can't possibly be corruption. When "we call it corruption" as you said we did, we are wrong. It is only corruption if applied to the systems we are used to in the West, but that doesn't make it corruption in the country of implementation.

@nernernenerenr....pretty sure local governance accepting backhanders to turn a blind eye to daylight robbery falls outside of the law even in Thailand. Most certainly is corruption.

<snip>does this stop the rental businesses from withholding passports (which is illegal, as the foreigner in Thailand is supposed to carry their passport on them at all times <snip>)

Not true, the passport has to be produced in a reasonable time. That means e.g. for tourists that keeping the passport in the hotel locker is perfectly acceptable.

<snip> demanding huge repair fees for minor scratches and dented baskets? <snip>

Sure this happens, but hardly ever, at least not on Phuket. The islands in the Gulf of Thailand are much more a riskfactor for this.

fair enough, I stand corrected. Samui does as you say have a dreadful reputation for scooter scams, as does it's shady sister KPG.

Jet skis were declared illegal many years ago,

Are you sure about that?? The issuing of new licenses was suspended several years ago but I believe the jetskis that already had a license remained legal and still are to this day. Are you saying that all jetskis operating in Phuket are illegal??

I remember when they were declared illegal here. It was not enforced by the Marine Division. Instead they came up with the "insurance scheme" which according to the article:

“We now have 286 rental jet-skis registered in Phuket. All of them now have first-class insurance and each jet-ski has a sticker showing a number that identifies who owns the jet-ski,” Mr Phuripat said.

Mr Phuripat explained that the “perfect result” was accomplished by working with local organizations and relevant offices. “And by holding ongoing discussions with people about how to solve the problems,” he said.

Which is pretty much BS... The same problems still exists... But feel free to research it if you wish.

The point is that making the jet-ski owners register them is totally irrelevant when it comes to quashing the roaring trade in fake jet-ski repairs funded by scammed tourists. Pretty much all motorbikes for rent are registered, does this stop the rental businesses from withholding passports (which is illegal, as the foreigner in Thailand is supposed to carry their passport on them at all times - impossible if the passport is being held to random by a third party) and demanding huge repair fees for minor scratches and dented baskets? Pretty much exactly the same business.

All these measures of taxi/jet-ski registration are just token gesture and deflect from the root of the problem, which is extortion. theft and scamming over bogus damage claims to the rented item, the business of which is protected by police and local 'people of influence'.

I think it's you who cannot read. I asked you very clearly to explain exactly why you don't think I have a clue as to what I'm talking about. READ MY REPLY AND FIND ONE STATEMENT YOU DON'T BELIEVE TO BE TRUE.

Thailand and crime against toursits. Key Facts Illustration.

1. The safer the tourists (i.e. the more protection and anti-crime measures the government prodives), the less likely is it that they will be scammed and the less money that can be extracted from them and into the hands of the criminal fraternity.
   
2. Most successful and smartest criminals that are nested within the tourist industry pay a premium to local bosses, who in turn pay a premium to regional bosses.
   
3. In return for the premium, the criminal pyramid is given permission to trade, usually slightly over into the dark side of the law to give them competitive advantage within the local/regional economy.
   
4. Protect tourists, turn off a lucrative revenue stream to local and regional bosses.
   

QED. Those in positions of power who are entrusted to actualy implement any new rules will not do so because it will cost them financially thus conflicting with their own personal interests.

An example of this is jet ski operators in Phuket. They don't actually murder and rape, but they do steal - and very openly. Some Thais might even consider this justifiable as in a necessary and fair way to extract a proportional amount of return from a disproportionately wealthy foreigner. They are allowed to continue to operate despite very international outrage simply because they pay the local cops an operators charge. The cops in Phuket almost certainly pay somebody to be allowed to allow jet ski scam to continue, and so on. Why do they do this? Do they think it's ok to rip off tourists? Yes they do. They see us every day in the bars, fighting in the streets, taking girls (and boys), hedonistic debauchery some may say. If you genuinely beleive that the locals and Thai cops in Phuket, Koh Samui, Pattaya or any other bar/beach/girly hot spot have any respect whatsoever for the two week tourist then you are sadly deluded.

Until the mentality of the majority of Thais is significantly altered with regards to their view of tourist personal wealth value and the great 'unfairness' of life the univserse and everything, AND, the bosses who are paid to allow reasonably petty criminal activity (stabbings and wanton violence are frowned upon, most crimes are theft and extortion/fear based) to continue (in reflection of the the redistribution of wealth because of the great 'unfairness' (and envy) of foreign wealth) crime will continue.

The sound-bite for this discussion is simple.

Corruption and kick backs within the circles of power (not even a need to say who) will continue to permit crime against tourists. All responses to pressure from consulates and other groups will be met with token gesture attempts at appeasement, where the Thais will still maintain CONTROL over who get's the whack.

CCTV? Sorry, can't find the tape mate...

+1 and this is not sarcasm (did I spell that right?).

I would never rent a jet ski in Phuket...Boycott works and only thing that will. I agree with what you say...will not change by Thais.

you hit the nail on the head. As a lot of foreigners seem to show very little in the way of common sense the moment they set foot in Thailand, perhaps a a more robust and idiot proof formula is required. Perhaps an enforced boycot, An example of which would be the government of Australia making it a criminal offence for it's citizens to hire jet skies whilst visiting Thailand. Another example could be the United Kingdom making it a criminal offence for it's citizens to invest any money earned in revenue or returned from a UK Pension Fund or other onshore investment (ISA, Endownment etc) in property or a businesses within Thailand that can not be owned legally, and in the majority, by the investor (in other words, you can't).

Just a thought.

Hi there,

Totally confused with wife's UK settlement visa application.

We live in the UK. Wife has had indefinite leave to remain since August 2011. prior to this she had a spouse visa from October 2009 (she had to return to BKK to get this), prior to this she had 3 month tourist visa (when we first arrived back in the UK).

I've tried phoning immigration countless times - it seems now that they are no longer taking calls and refer you instead to their website, which typically for a governmental information source is vague and extremely open to interpretation.

my question is simply when can she apply for her settlement visa, safe in the knowledge that she has met the requirements of the so called (and very poorly defined) 'qualifying period'?. Not that it makes much difference, but we have also had three kids together who all have British passports and have been married 7 (long) years.

Thanks

Google maps for smartphone (I use HTC Desire). Works well in Bangkok BUT you need mobile phone signal.