BigMountain

He's always been saying he'll appoint the interim govt and People's Council. So what if he appoints himself or one of his cronies? They have Skype in samui too.

Waiting for more pics... But seems like a pretty low turnout for the UDD

Unfortunately, as we all know, it doesn't take many to cause trouble

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Suthep has the power of old cultural forces (and money) behind him. He can dress his words up in prettier language like "reform" ..hes part of the problem tho because his power relies on the very systems that created the status quo. The red shirts do not have the generational power and must resort to their numbers and a constant underlying, threatening layer of violence, actualized by events in 2010.

The reds really do seem to have the numbers, however, which is an empowerment in democratic nations. It determines who governs.

I agree, the threat of violence coming from the reds is damaging thailand, but bangkokians and the old lords need to understand: if u want democracy, respect the vote

Your argument is flawed from end to the other and suggests to me that you are hoping for violence and are already throwing in your justifications for it.

1. Suthep you claim is dressing up an agenda in words like 'reforms'? These are not just words, did you already forget the 2 week forum on the reform blueprint?

2. The red shirts are relying on numbers and a threat of violence because of the events of 2010? The red shirts got themselves killed in 2010, they deserved it for the main part for attacking an armed force with guns, etc. If they are what you say they are, why did they not hang around in 2010 to 'finish the job' instead of running away once their stupid leaders turned themselves over to the army because they were crapping their pants??

3. Red shirts have the numbers do they? Let me tell you that I live in what was once a 95% dominated red shirt town, it is now a Dem dominant town, full reversal in just 3 years. Red shirts are actually a collection of tine minorities and need to scrape the entire country to get a few thousand at their rallies and then they have to pay (video proof). Of the amount of fake supporters, only a tiny fraction are actually activists such as 16 year old kids and drunken thirty somethings.

4. You use of democracy and vote in the same sentence is particularly hilarious. Since when did Thailand ever have a true democratic election and this government has also broken just about every democratic principle there is.

The only thing I agree with you on is that the reds threat of violence is damaging Thailand, but not as much as the actual acts which have been almost daily. Jatuporn brings his red buffs to BKK and it goes pear shaped, you can forget the damage to Thailand so far.... It will be nothing compared to what will happen to the nation if Thaksin, Thida and YL get their civil war they are so hungry fore, so they at least have one last throw of the dice at separation and Thaksin's return to rule as the king of lanna.

1. pls tell me the results of these forums. Suthep has been unwilling to compromise or even speak to the PTP (aside from the strange challenge to debate yingluck live on tv

2. You misunderstand me. Reds were violent in 2010. They use this to their advantage to paralyze the army to stage a coup with threats, and they hold it over the country to intimidate voters. I dont agree with it and certainly dont advocate violence.

3. You could b right that your experience in your area is representative of thailand but it is impossible to tell as elections were blocked. I have stated many times that i believe the dems have an opening here to build their voting block.

4. We all agree thailand is an emerging democracy. Nevertheless, an election is the way to decide who governs the nation. I fully support new elections monitored by asean and the UN.

Sorry i got you all worked up..maybe sleep it off

Many eligible voters from the South are taking part in anti-government protests in Bangkok and are not expected to return home in time for voting.

They are voting with their feet.

They do not need to worry about the Senate elections, they have been told by their messiah that when they overthrow the Government, part of the reform will mean that the senate will be 100% appointed by Suthep, so will only include 'good people'.

Is this the government that is 100 % appointed by their messiah in Dubai?

pretty much yes, so at least we are in agreement that this is exactly what is happening and all this reform stuff is complete nonsense. Least we can call a spade a spade now, and see this is not about reform, just a power grab.

I also grow tired of all this false talk of reform. There is a core part of Sutheps support that does want reform. That base has been corroding away as more and more people realize this is a power grab, as you call it, and not a machine for real political reform. This is about taking power back from thaksin. There have been debates about whether this is good or bad for years and I don't care to step into it. However, call a spade a spade. Reform has a nice ring to it, but this is about power, and the country is divided between the two sides vying for it. I still maintain elections mediated by ASEAN is the way forward out of this deep hole thailand continues to dig for itself. Wishful thinking, I know.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Elections are the only way to solve this. Yingluck called one after the protests put pressure on her....and suthep with the courts nullified it. I think there is definitely evidence that the PTP's support was wavering at the the time. The dems may not have taken all their votes but the farming folk may have voted for other parties. Dems could have had a shot. The longer this drags out the more the red shirts will solidify and back Yingluck and Thaksin, and they have the numbers despite the big marches that occasionally happen in BKK. The "bkk shutdown" along with physically blocking people from voting were colossal blunders by the dems and suthep.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

But...but...red shirts are a peaceful organisation! This can't be right! Must be airsoft weapons!

And some 'intellectual heavyweights' continually criticize Thai army for being heavy handed. Get some perspective. Try demolishing U.S or British Army security checkpoint mate and see what happens. It seems to me that Jatuporn and his followers want blood to be spilled once again.

U could say the same about police hq or checkpoints, but whatever. Still wrong and should b condemned by all leaders.

My personal feeling is that prayuth doesnt have a unified army killing machine as many claim. We see navy and possibly othets freelancing with the PDRC. Its not hard to imagine army defectors taking their weapons with them. Guerilla warfare doesnt need numbers, just people willing to do violence and die for their cause. The reds have quite successfully made this out to be a battle for democracy.

Hopefully these ppl are arrested.

I think red shirt support can be legitamately questioned at this point. I dont believe statistics from the recent nullified election is a valid measurement of support, however. That was set out to fail and everyone knew it. A better measurement will be the numbers redshirt rallies draw. (Same goes for suthep who has seen his support drop). I have a feeling the courts ruling on the election may have the result of electrifying the redshirt base

Secretary-General of the People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) Suthep Thaugsuban has declared that the group will continue to prevent the general election from happening, reiterating that reform must come first.

He's right. Reform must come before an election. The Dems need to reform into an electable moderate party that represents all working Thais. But since they can't be bothered doing that, the elections should go ahead anyway and it is their own tough luck that they refused to rebrand their policies to appeal to more people.

Elections should keep rolling on unopposed until somebody has that lightbulb-moment where they decide to actually offer a political party with a menu that people actually find appealing. Elections are not the problem - and that is why blocking them is totally wrong. The problem is that the main parties are not offering any clear incentives for the common working person to vote for them with any sense of purpose.

And here is the correct answer! Unfortunately though the dems won't do this. They will wait until they are shoe horned into power and then this whole mess can start over AGAIN!

Both sides have the chance to step back, reform themselves, come to the table with working and transparent policies and go on to win a fair election. Their masters don't want that though. Absolute power, by any means or cost necessary.

One cannot cease to be amazed at the comments of the Shinwatra clan and Red Shirt supporters. We can all clearly see that the political dogma of both the Shinwatra clan and the Red Shirt leaders is founded upon the total stifling and oppression of free speech and that which currently passes for democracy here in Thailand.

Rabid screaming and rants concerning the actions of the P.R.D.C. which have and are even now far more peaceful, less destructive and far less disruptive than the action we witnessed and indeed suffered from during the 2010 Red Shirts Shinwatra sponsored attempt to overthrow a government and replace it with a known criminal administered administration which of course we later saw assume power to the detriment of Thailand and its peoples.

Can any of these supporters really in what may pass for their minds actually believe that Thaksin, Jutuporn, Thida, Ko-Tee etc are benevolent political leaders with only the best interest of Thailand and its people at heart?

Going by the yardstick the supporters of the aforementioned group employ we can but only assume that Joe Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Ghengis Khan to name but a few were indeed very misunderstood and historically maligned concerning their merciful acts and deeds.

It would certainly seem as if those current supporters and proponents of their proposed actions of the Shinwatra clan and the Red Shirts have learnt nothing from history.

1. Thailands Press Freedom Rankings

Green = Thaksin backed Administration

Red = Non Thaksin Administration

2002 - 65 (Thaksin)

2003 - 82 (Thaksin)

2004 - 59 (Thaksin)

2005 - 107 (The yellow nonsense kicked off about here)

2006 - 122 (coup admin)

2007 - 135 (coup admin)

2008 - 124 (Samak and Somchai and a lot of yellow nonsense)

2009 - 130 (Abhisit)

2010 - 153 (Abhisit)

2011 - 137 (Abhisit)

2012 - 135 (Yingluck)

Pretty clear that non-Thaksin backed administrations reduce freedom of speech to a greater extent than Thaksin backed governments.

Unelected authoritarian regimes don't like their crimes to be talked about.

(my guess is if you muzzle the media corruption is a hell of a lot more lucrative to)

It's a pity you can't live up to your name - the honest bit that is.

Press freedom & freedom of speech got steadily worse under Thaksin - so bad that he was admonished by a higher person to stop using the courts to shut people up. Did you make those figures up? No source and additional stupid comments don't actually help.

You should try the transparency figures which has Thailand continuing to drop:

Odd that it was highest in 2006.

It's a pity that the UDD has apparently appointed (why no election?) a mercenary with a very poor violent and dishonest reputation. At least Thida has an ideology albeit a bit extreme. Jatuporn will no doubt welcome the input of Ko Tee into the red shirt version of democracy given his murderous credentials. Kwanchai in Udon will fit in too when he fully recovers and can terrorise any foolish locals who might protest for the other side.

If they attempt another invasion of Bangkok the army may well be forced to take action - possibly of the Seh Daeng sort.

Where's the huge spike in your graph?

I thought Thailand always had a moderate amount of corruption until Thaksin came along took corruption to a level unimagined by even the most crooked of the old generals and appointed premiers?

Shins this, Shins that.

Why are the years of 2001 - 2005 not fantastically different from the non Thaksin years?

Could it be that the demonisation of Thaksin as some sort of mega corrupt super villain is based upon fallacies and exaggerations from disreputable sources?

Your graph certainly shows this to be the case.

As for the comments on Thaksin being admonished you seem to think support your argument, well, you've strayed into a no go area that cannot be freely debated by those that respect the laws of the land - so I won't touch it.

"Could it be that the demonisation of Thaksin as some sort of mega corrupt super villain is based upon fallacies and exaggerations from disreputable sources?"

No comment needed.

I am also failing to see the drastic spike in 2006. It all looks equally bad. So yeah, a comment is needed. I don't see how this graph supports anyone's claims that thaksin is any more corrupt than the others

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Maybe he got the dates mixed up?

These " confessions " that are magically extracted behind closed doors, without legal representation, and then paraded in front of the cameras for " reenactments " is a familiar sight. Whether this man is justly accused or not, this whole spectacle leaves a cautionary impression.

Nothing magical about it. He also confessed at a press conference: not exactly behind closed doors

I see the denial brigade is out in full force today.

Is this the UDD support litmus test? How many are willing to support these people?

While it's true we really don't know the full story about this guy, what I find amusing is how the Suthep-ocrats are so quick to defend their precious, peaceful demonstrators, their polite and non violent guards, and of course the Dear Leader himself.

This guy is the "victim" of a money or drug deal gone bad....

It's a UDD/Red Shirt set up....

He was paid to do this....

Someone else did it.....

ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you can come up with due to your refusal and denial to believe he just MIGHT be telling the truth.

And you call the Reds "stupid buffalo" who believe everything their leaders tell them.

It really is quite entertaining!

There is clearly an all out judicial battle happening. Still more of the same tit for tat just an expanded field

Deary me.

Yingluck and Red Shirts are not on the same hymn sheet.

Has Kikoman seen this?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree, they are not on the same hymn sheet. Which is why I've always thought this obsession with Thaksin people have is ridiculous. The red shirts clearly are different groups with their own agendas.

Surapong, let the ambassadors speak for their own countries. Just because you wrote a letter to the UN doesn't make you the voice of the international community

Here's a recent story from a farang on Facebook who surely has no reason to make things up (click here for link with picture):

'An upsetting run in Lumpini as Bangkok public space is slowly allowing itself to be taken over by lawless thugs.

I run in Lumpini park everyday. Today I entered the park at 1pm and on my right was a group of mob guards surrounding one Thai guy. They were intimidating him and put his head between his legs and were hitting him on the head. Maybe the guy did something wrong maybe not, but physical abuse is not okay.

I saw this and asked them what they were doing and took a picture. The picture upset them and then I told them they were not police, which upset them a bit more... the one guy got quite aggressive in his speech and approached me and said he was a police officer, I once again, told him he wasn't.'

And here's another incident witnessed by a farang:

Cyrille Andres ‏@cyrilleandres 4 hrs

@RichardBarrow I saw an old guy get beaten by PDRC guards there too. And they ran after me when they saw I took pictures.

Given this, and the stories I mentioned earlier, I have no problem believing that the PDRC guards beat the guy up. I'm not sure I believe that he was just 'relaxing' in the park though.

I doubt we will ever get the whole story.

I found it interesting that the runner in the park would tell the guards they are not police. Is he saying it would be OK

for the police to have been beating the guy. Also how did he know they were guards?

Notice his opening startement.

"'An upsetting run in Lumpini as Bangkok public space is slowly allowing itself to be taken over by lawless thugs."

Right of the bat he is telling us he is prejudiced.

I wonder if he had not told them they were not police if any one would have pretended to be one.

Violence is not the answer. The red shirts thought it was and it worked for them. It got the PTP elected. Now they are seeing that it did not end when Her majesty took over the PM office.

Suthep is urging non violence. But that doesn't mean just let people do any thing they want to do to disrupt the rally or harm some one.

Remember the red shirts have a history of trying to disrupt opposition rallies.

Keep telling yourself that! Meanwhile, get some cheese and wine together and go down to Lumphini Park for a nice relaxing picnic!

This SOE is silly. The only effect it has had is to keep tourists away.