jamesbrock

It's a pity neither you nor your friend took note of my review on the previous page, and steered well clear of the parma and other substandard food there, and ordered the ribs instead. Obviously wouldn't have changed the service, or your overall experience though...

yes sounds bad, one good thing about it all is that you werent killed, especially considering both of you werent wearing your lids,

Most definitely! I stupidly clicked on a video in another thread of this guy on a big bike losing traction and doing a highside - literally sent chills down my spine! Especially in slow-mo when he smacks his (helmeted) head on the ground - f me we were lucky!

What Phangan & Tao don't warrant a mention? That in itself was nearly enough for me to completely disregard this 'report', but the author's continual use of the phrase "only island a tsunami can't reach" makes it sound like it was written buy the Samui tourism authority! Had the piece been qualified with the origin of the Tsunami that cannot reach us (e.g. Indian Ocean tsunami), it may not have been so misleading.

Have a look at where we are in the Gulf of Thailand, paying particular attention to the undersea tectonics around the Philippines, particularly that ridge to the west of Manilla; then have a look at the plate tectonics around that area, with the Australian plate pushing north-east, the Eurasian plate pushing southwest, and the Filipino plate pushing back against the both of them. This tectonic movement caused a 7.1 magnitude submarine earthquake off the southwest coast of Taiwan, in the Luzon Strait (which connects the South China Sea with the Philippine Sea) on December 26, 2006. Any further south, and it's entirely feasible the a tsunami could sweep around the southern tip of Vietnam and straight up the gulf to Samui, particularly Chaweng and Lamai.

I don't mean to be alarmist, but to say it can never happen here is quite naive.

A gash on my left shin bruised badly, and became really swollen and painful; turns out I had developed a subacute compartment syndrome. (Wiki it, it's gross.)

Wish I hadn't just googled scs... Nasty.

Yup, sorry bout that!

Great post. Jamesbrock

Yes if you find yourself incapacitated people here are far more helpful. For the life of me I can not figure out why Beetlejuice with his attitude stays here. I am 70 years old and if I felt that way I would be out of here like a shot.

The one word of caution I would give you is you might find yourself short of money as has been mentioned and explained here before. But as elektrified said it might be just a stepping stone. But as you know from previous experience it can be a very enjoyable one. You don't have to stay here until it looks like Beetlejuice see's it.

Nelson and Kaslo are both very beautiful city's but they defiantly do not get enough sun for my liking and the rain is not as mild as we get it here.

Thanks hellodolly; yes, it does sort of fit my theory: stay somewhere until you no longer like it, and then find somewhere else...

Regarding working an on-line business with a Non-Thai Client base - here is another slant on it:

http://www.thaivisa....line%20business

I was at the meeting and admittedly the rationale came from an officer of the Labour Department and many folk came away still thinking that it was a grey area. However I have seen another topic on TV (sorry I have searched high and low and cannot not find it) regarding doing legal work on line for a non-Thai client base and that seemed to support the case made by the Labour Department.

Very interesting link. Like almost any law, rule, or regulation in Thailand - it is such a grey area, and the answer to your particular situation depends entirely on who you speak to, their particular level of intelligence, training and job satisfaction, and their particular mood on the particular day you speak to them. As such, if I were operating an online business of any type, I would use the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. (Don't mistake my opinion with a recommendation, as I would never recommend anyone break a law.)

If you are a young guy and think Canada’s boring, just wait until you’ve had a taste of Chiang Mai, then you’re know what the word boring really means.

Chiang Mai is all right, there is a lot to be said for it, but it seems to be prefered by the elderly, who prefer quite and isolation. It is full of grumpy old farangs that may give you an acknowledging grunt if passing in the street and as for the social scene, well, the less said about that the better. There are a few young dudes here, but most of them are working and don`t socialise much or pre-occupied with themselves.

For someone of your age who has no family or close friends already here, I don’t recommend Chiang Mai as the place to take your hat off and settle down, otherwise you could find yourself alone and friendless because many of the ex-pats here are knocking on in years, not very socialable and prefer to stay in their own little clique.

Wow, that's some scornful cynicism right there. I wonder if that's the result of experiencing the pitfalls above, or the over way around?

Please don`t take my word for it, I suggest that you do some online research on the Chiang Mai scene and then decide for yourself. But I seriously advise that you think carefully before making the big move here. Being on holiday is one thing, but actually living here is another matter.

Isn't this online research? Where better to research moving to a place than in a forum occupied by people already living in said place? Some static website with one person's views? God forbid, he may end up on a site written by a jaded expat who hates the place!

At least I agree with your last sentence (although not the sentiment): actually living here is another matter - it's MUCH better than being on holiday!

A little while ago, farangs of no wealth that hoped to live in Thailand for the long term would seek some sorts of teaching jobs in order to financially sustain their cost of living in Thailand. Now it appears that the new trend is working online and many believe that they have found a loophole within the laws of Thailand to get around paying taxes or having to endure going via the Thai employment and running a business acts for foreigners working here, maybe because they could not qualify for the terms and conditions imposed by Thai Immigration.

All of whom are positively contributing to Thailand's economy. Or does that not matter, because they may be somehow bending the rules in a country where corruption by, and briery of public officials has become the accepted norm? It's ok to pay tea money to a police officer to avoid a harsher penalty for an offence, but it's not ok to use a loophole to live comfortably in Thailand?

As for living in Chiang Mai or any other part of Thailand on a more permanent basis, than you must decide this at your own discretion, keeping in mind that in Thailand, if you fall into the deep do dars, no one is going to pull you out. So my advice is, to ensure that you plan well and fully understand what you are undertaking.

That may be your experience, but most likely not because people don't care about others...

I have been in Thailand seven months; nearly three weeks ago I had an horrific motorcycle accident, and have been confined to a wheelchair since. The outpouring of support that I have received, on the day of the accident, and every day since, has been amazing. And this is from both farangs and Thais. People that I thought were mere acquaintances have repeatedly gone out of their way to offer any type of support or assistance I may need, and I've needed a lot! Sure, I have suffered the usual criminal incompetence of the public hospital, the expected extortion during the 'assisted negotiation' at the police station, and the indifference of a few taxi drivers, but on the whole, it has been a real eye opening, and deeply humbling experience.

Instead of blaming the expats in Chiang Mai for not accepting you or engaging with you, and blaming everyone for their neglect and indifference when you are in "the deep do dars", you should probably take a look at yourself. I know I wouldn't want to hang out with you.

So, driedmango, you've had the full spectrum of advice here. Again, I say come, come now. Like many others, I wish I'd come a decade earlier (I'm 41), so come, travel around and check out the country, stay until you no longer enjoy it, then move on. There are some other recent threads in the CM forum about people moving to CM, and a few of them have spoken about catching up for a beer or such; check them out, it would be good.

I,m very happy you were both ok,can i ask what age are you, just to find out roughly how long for recovery. i mean if u r 20 ish, maybe sooner, or if you r late 50s or 60s maybe longer, no offence intended

I'm 41, healthy and fit (even if I have developed quite a cider-belly in the past six months ). I had been regularly cycling the 70-odd-k's around Samui (going the long way) up to a few days before the accident - THAT, I miss! Going a bit crazy in this chair actually!

The fibula in my right leg was snapped clean, a complete traverse fracture, but isn't displaced so it hasn't been braced or splinted; I'm supposed to be keeping off it. The left big toe was shattered, the foot badly bruised, and the ankle badly sprained; the toe is splinted to the second one, the foot's still very tender, and the ankle - after blowing up like a balloon - is near its normal size; I'm supposed to be keeping off that too. The right ankle was sprained too, but that's pretty much ok now. The left elbow was fractured, but it seems to have healed nicely, I just can't rotate my hand fully yet. Both wrists were sprained, and I can't really do too much that requires hand-strength (it was two weeks till I could open a can of coke).

A gash on my left shin bruised badly, and became really swollen and painful; turns out I had developed a subacute compartment syndrome. (Wiki it, it's gross.) This has required daily visits to the hospital since Sunday, but, hopefully, the incision will be closed up tomorrow. The doctor believes we caught it before any damage was done.

If I can stay off it more in these early stages, the fibula will take between 8-12 weeks for fully heal; but I could be back on the bike in another four or five. The ankle should have healed by then too.

I just need to be patient...

As an aside: the motorbike is now finished, and a friend will pick it up for us on Monday.

The Phuket seller who was quoting 38k for the 64gig 4g now has it at 28k. Dropped in one week!

Bet you there are a few early buyers kicking themselves now!

My gf came home just now soaked through with icy cold water; we're in Lamai, so it's started already here too.

it always starts 1 day earlier in lamai, and finishes 1 day later

Excellent. Glad I'm housebound!

safety gear (excluding helmet) will only save you from road rash not broken bones - just saying

as I said on the other thread Glad you both made it

Proper shoes would've prevented the badly broken toe, and the sprained ankles; but, you're right, the leg and arm wouldn't have been saved by any of the gear I linked to above. Road rash was the least of my concerns, and is mostly gone now anyways.

Thanks again; we were both very lucky.

My gf came home just now soaked through with icy cold water; we're in Lamai, so it's started already here too.

Thanks a lot, I'm pretty dam_n glad I'm here too. Recovery won't be so swift, but at least I get chance to recover - too many of us don't, at least here on Samui. As for needing anything, I'm good - my gf wasn't too injured thankfully, and she's taking good care of me. One thing's for sure, it's shown me how many good friends I have here in Samui!

Sitting here in my wheelchair for the 18th day, that first vid sent shivers down my spine!

To be honest, I don't recall what I did when my rear tyre slid out on a wet patch - but it was obviously the wrong thing to do, whatever is was!

I avoid riding in the rain too, but lost traction on a wet patch on the road a few weeks ago and came off quite badly; so compensating for my apparent lack of skills buy putting more, stickier, rubber under my bike.

1.4 does seem a bit narrow, but that's straight from the parts catalogue; am interested to see if the Nouvo is 1.6. (If so, I'll have rim-envy!)

$500 (assuming Canadian Dollars) or about 15,344 Baht is really not a whole lot to live on now. It's certainly doable, but only if you want to really live a Thai lifestyle and forgo a lot of stuff you are probably used to back home. To live more comfortably, I would think you would need about double that. You mentioned your need for friends, but when you go out with friends, it's usually to restaurants (eating & drinking), movies, fitness centers, etc. Girlfriend? A lot more;-) Visa Runs on a tourist visa (Chiang Mai to Mae Sae Bus?). So that will eat into your budget. Transportation Motorbike/Car will probably be needed and can be a big expense.

When I first came here, I was able to make about $1,200-$1,500 (US Dollars) per month. I was very comforatably, but at the time I was getting 41-42 Baht per Dollar and inflation hadn't really hit Chiang Mai. I've been back from a 2-1/2 stay in the US and I'm amazed at the rise in cost of Food, Gas, Lodging, etc.. In just that time, it seems everything went up 20-30%. Doesn't help when you're only getting 30 Baht to the dollar. Anyway, when I first came to live in Chiang Mai, while I had the monthly income to live on, I also had about $8,000 as an emergency back up. Like you mentioned, you may want to fly home, and that can't be done quickly on only $500 a month income. To fly to San Francisco, it costs about $1,000, so I'm assuming Canada is similar. You also seem worried about your health (good thing), so it's always nice to have some savings or means to pay (Credit Card) for any medical problems you may encounter. While medical care is cheaper here, it's certainly won't seem cheap on a $500 a month budget or someone from a country that has universal health coverage (I believe you have that in Canada).

Here's the positive: Moving here was one of the best decisions I ever made. I met my beautiful wife while she was attending Rajapat University in Chiang Mai and we have a wonderful 3 year old son now. Thailand (Chiang Mai in Particular) will always be like a 2nd home for us (Berkeley being our primary because of the schools for our son). I don't want to disuade you from coming here, but I think it would be safe to have some sort of savings before you come... Even if it's just enough for a Plane Ticket home.

I think another poster mentioned you should rent a furnished apartment until you are settled in, which is a great idea. That will save you from having to buy stuff like TV's, Refridgerators, Bedding, etc. We are back for only 3 months, and are staying in a furnished apartment for only 5,000 Baht a month and they have a TV (don't watch it though) and internet, next to a famous market, and close to most things in Chiang Mai.

http://www.wipananmansion.com/

Chiang Mai is a wonderful place to live and I'm sure you will find a way to meet friends and get by on your budget. As was mentioned before, just do things you enjoy doing and be social. You will be bound to meet people who enjoy what you enjoy. At nights, I used to play Basketball at Chiang Mai University and met a lot of people there (expats & Thais). Another thing, I would suggest making a concerted effort in learning the language (most farangs don't). You'll find you will get better prices when shopping and also meet some wonderful Thai friends.

+1. A great consolidation of all the advice given thus far.

I think I could do alright in Thailand, I have a little online retail biz that generates about roughly $500 a month on average, although I might be

able to increase that if I really needed to. But that could wash up one day too, who knows.

I can also build websites and make graphics.. not sure how that might fly in Thailand.

As long as your biz is fully automated and you don't need to 'work' on it while here. You'll find there are a lot of entrepreneurs in Chiang Mai doing quite alright for themselves with online businesses, and who knows, you could even grow your income (without 'working' of course).

Technically, working on your own online business is defined as 'work' and, as such, you can not do it legally in Thailand without a work permit, which you can not get (without jumping through a million hoops, and signing more than half of it away to a Thai national). If you work on it while overseas, and it generates income while you are here, that's fine.

What tyres did you use? I'd prefer to get something that's good in the wet.

Rear rim on the Hayate is 1.4 x 16. What's on the Mio?

The guy in the shop says the 100's will fit (but we all know what the 'guy in the shop' says and reality rarely align); I've read on here on members putting 100's on the rear of their Nouvos; I can't imagine the rims being that different.

lol, so you're saying I'll probably move to Chiang Mai until, say, late February?

My only advice is: don't ever feel like you're tied to one place. As electrified says, don't plan to 'move to Chiang Mai forever, and worry about what might happen when you're old'. When I moved to Samui seven months ago, my plan was to 'move to Samui until I no longer enjoyed it', well that time has passed and I was supposed to move to Chiang Mai last week, but circumstances have forced me to postpone for six weeks or so, when I plan to move to Chiang Mai until I no longer enjoy it. When that will be, and where my next destination is is anyone's guess, but it sure feels fantastic to be this free!

Got the dates i wanted by calling them,couldnt get them on the website.9,800Bt return for two on an airbus.Nice one !

Only a nice one IF you were already planning a trip to BKK; if not, nice one PG!

Ok ok, underbone or "underbone style" vs. Scooter with an open platform.

I rode them all, except the PCX.

And I (188cm) feel very uncomfortable on all of them. They are just all too small (for my size).

So I chose the "least evil" with the Mio 125, as I can't see any advantages in these "underbone styled" bikes.

50% of (my) shopping tours, would be just impossible with a Nouvo/Airblade styled bike.

I remember my good old Step, when I needed a new Truck battery (120 Ah). I just put it on the footplate and drove back home.

Try to "balance" such a battery or similar large items, on an underbone...

And what frame is/should be stiffer, is not really an argument for me. I don't use them on a race track...

As mentioned above, the rim and tire-size is very important.

It was a great improvement in stability, when I switched from the original spoked rims (1.6" wide rear rim size) to mag wheels (1.85" wide rear rim size) and wider tires.

EDIT: 1.85" seems to be standard size now on the Mio 2011/12.

Yep, I can imagine you'd feel crunched on all of them! As I said, there are too many variables to consider when choosing a bike for YOU. We can argue till we're blue in the face about frame style or size, seat height, and wheel/tyre size/width, but we're all so different that two 180cm people might not feel the same about the Hayate. While the footboard on the Click or Scoopy were handy at times, I can't really say that I missed it too much after switching to the Hayate - it has such large underseat capacity that we end up using that a lot more.

One thing I am looking forward to when I get my Hayate back, is the change from 70/90-16 F & 80/90-16 R to 80/90-16 F & 100/90-16 R.

Thanks for the explainations, though i am still a little confused. But that is more my problem than yours! While i was aware of there seems to be a difference with the explanation between an underbone and scooter, i was never really sure what they were. I was actually looking at the Yamaha Phillipines website when i stated underbone for both bikes, as that is what the website describes them as.

http://www.yamaha-mo.../tech-info.html

http://www.yamaha-mo.../tech-info.html

The Honda Malaysia distributor describes the frames of the Icon and Wave as 'back bone', which i think is incorrect as a backbone is just one tube rather than a ladder type chassis/frame

http://www.boonsiewh...ns-wave110.html

http://www.boonsiewh...con-new-02.html

The problem probably lies more with the translator adhering to technically specific nomenclature! I'll repeat, Underbones are often mistaken for scooters and are sometimes marketed as such. However, an underbone does not have a footboard, and is therefore not a scooter.

The description you gave for underbone "motorcycle uses structural tube framing with an overlay of plastic or non-structural body panel" can also be applied to describing what you'd call a scooter or step-through. Checking on wiki, the line is blurred on descriptions of scooters/step-throughs and underbones.

"Underbone may also refer to a class of small light motorcycles that use the construction type, known variously as step-throughs or scooters."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underbone

Ok, how about we use (from the same link): "An underbone cycle may share its fuel tank position and tube framing, along with fitted bodywork and splash guards with a scooter while the wheel size, engine position, and power transmission recall a larger motorcycles."

It does seem that 'underbone' only means chassis but in time has come to mean a certain type of chassis/frame for bikes. I suppose in my mind a scooter is any type of small bike without a full frame and is divided into 2 classes; 'Step-through' has the complete flat floor, and the second type 'underbone' is sort of a half step-through (with or without floor boards) with a raised hump in the middle for the frame cross member. So a Mio, TTX, Click, Spacey, Scoopy, Fiore etc is a step-through, while an underbone is a PCX, Airblade, Nouvo, SX, Hayate, Wave etc. Maybe there is or should be better terminology, as i think the use of underbone here is not good. Maybe 'flat floor frame' and 'cross member frame' or more to the point 'case of beer stable frame' and 'case of beer tipsy frame'.

Yeah, I agree that underbone is a silly term, and still refer to them as scooters, but my point was more technical than a hard rule that we should all follow. Heck, neither of them fit the technical definition of a full-frame motorbike, but we still generally call them all motorbikes at times.

Obviously tyre size and wheelbase comes into play, but out of the 2 chassis designs wouldn't the underbone style be stiffer with the frame member going upward through the middle?

Yes, but it's generally accepted that you cannot have a chassis that is "too stiff".

Generally, most manufacturers have an entry in each market segment, eg. Scoopy/Fino/Gelato; Click/Mio/Step; PCX/Nouvo/Hayate (it could be argued that the Airblade is actually the direct competitor of the Nouvo & Hayate; however, it is never mentioned in the same sentence so the general perception is that the PCX is it).

Up until now, I have always considered these segments to be pretty much equal, with the most differences in the top one: the PCX being the chubby older brother, the Nouvo being the stronger second son, and the Hayate the plain Jane sister.

Now, the game has changed; the family has been rocked. The PCX has hit the 'roids, and the Nouvo dropped to a different weight class; poor plain Jane is still plain, even though I like her a lot... This does not make the PCX the better bike, as there are too many variables to consider when choosing a bike for YOU, but it certainly looks the strongest out there now.

I'm very keen to get my bum on a new Nouvo, just to see how it rides, but I don't think I'll be trading in the Hayate just yet.

And, how many cm ist the Elegance wheel base longer, compared to the 125cc Mio? Two or three?

Four, with a 3.5cm higher seating position.

I don't talk about Clicks/Finos...

You did:

like the "old" (2011-2012) Mio, Click, et.pp.?

the elegance is longer and has bigger wheels

this alone helps with better ride and stability

True.

a mio or a click or scoopy just dont feel so strong

Agreed.

what I don't understand, why do people prefer bikes, like Nouvo, Airblade, Wave, Hayate with their closed "footplate" over the much more viable bikes with their "open footplate" (not sure about the correct term in english), like the "old" (2011-2012) Mio, Click, et.pp.?

For a start, and I respectfully will refute you taichiplanet, but they are technically different vehicles. One type are 'scooters' (Mio, Click, etc.) and the other type are 'underbones' - more common referred to as 'stepthroughs'.

• A 'scooter' is defined as a "motorcycle with step-through frame and a platform for the operator's feet";
  
• An underbone is defined as a "motorcycle uses structural tube framing with an overlay of plastic or non-structural body panels and contrasts with monocoque or unibody designs where pressed steel serves both as the vehicle's structure and bodywork".
  

Underbones are often mistaken for scooters and are sometimes marketed as such. However, an underbone does not have a footboard, and is therefore not a scooter.

I can't be simply the fact, that they have two shocks.

It's not. The engine of an underbone is usually fixed to the chassis under the downtube, while a scooter usually has its engine mounted on its swingarm. As a result, underbone engines are usually further forwards than those of scooters. A typical underbone therefore has a more central centre of gravity than a typical scooter. Furthermore, having an engine mounted on the swingarm gives a typical scooter more unsprung mass than a typical underbone. These factors give a typical underbone better handling than a typical scooter.

The engine of an underbone typically drives the rear wheel by a chain of the kind used on a conventional motorcycle. This final drive is often concealed by a chain enclosure to keep the chain clean and reduce wear. The final drive of a scooter with a swingarm-mounted engine runs in a sealed oil bath and is shorter.

And they are NOT noticeably larger.

Not to you perhaps, but you might not have ever actually looked at the side-by-side.

Here's a quick unformatted table:

Dimensions Mio Click 125 Nouvo Hayate PCX 150

Overall length 1850 1894 1935 1935 1917

Overall width 685 680 678 670 738

Overall height 1050 1052 1057 1070 1094

Wheelbase 1240 1273 1280 1285 1315

Ground clearance 125 125 130 140 135

Seat height 745 750 770 770 760

Dry weight 91kg 105kg 105kg 108kg 140kg

Messy, but the info's all there. To me, an 8.5cm difference in size is certainly noticeable just by watching them drive past, but the real difference for me is the position of the seat. I'm 180cm tall, so an average height, and I find the seating position on my Hayate immeasurably more comfortable than that on my previous bikes (Scoopy & Click). The 2.5 cm difference in seat height might not seem like big deal, but I definitely don't feel as hunched over on the bigger Hayate.

Both are classed as underbone chassis but maybe (hopefully someone with more tech knowledge will agree or refute) due to the structure of the Elegance frame, it is more rigid and therefore gives better handling and a better ride.

Refuted.