rinteln

Canterbury Tales will see you good!

http://www.canterburytalescafe.com/

Fantastic, thank you !

Does anyone know of a good second hand book store in Pattaya ? Or even a new one at that but one that sells western novels etc ?

I am looking for George Orwell's 1984. I could order it online and it may come in 10 years or just wondered if anyone knows a good bookshop here ?

Thanks

Sorry but I just don't believe the numbers quoted:

- Thai students - 450 - believable.

- Singapore students - 550 - not believable because teachers actually teach 99%

of all classes in English in singapore, students totally immersed in English from

day 1 at Kindergarten. The averageTOEFL score for Singapore students must be

a lot higher than 550 / the gap cannot be just 100, impossible.

Well I think it is the other way round. Singaporeans might have averaged 550 - but Thais averaging 450 ? Well unbelievable. There cannot be just a 100 points gap. I think the Average Thai score might be around 250-300.

Yeah the numbers dont add up. Ive been to Singapore a few times and I think they may even regard it as an insult to suggest there is such a small difference. When i go to Singapore i barely change the way I speak and the speed because they are that good. There is a massive difference between Singapore and here with English.

I agree with some of the comments made in regards to the quality of teachers. I know of so many non native speakers that are teaching English its worrying.

I think the core of all this and it also relates to other parts of their culture is like many things they don't take the issue seriously and don't want to invest in the future of English proficiency. Hence you end up with a system where you either have Thai teachers trying to teach English or non native people accepting lower wages to do it instead of setting up a system of high quality qualified native speakers.

Yep I also went to the same branch. First desk on the left and they know what they are doing, which is important because I remember the HK embassy being a bit fussy about how the draft is done and worded.

The heading is wrong. It should read "alcohol banned tonight for any bar/shop/club who has not paid off the police"

Answer is simple. If they give you the refund and then they cant fill the room for the remaining duration then they have lost money. This ofcourse works within reason, if we were talking about a long period remaining then its different as they should have the ability to fill the room for some of the time but with only 1 week remaining its no guarantee for them to get it filled. Hotels have to have policies to protect their business.

If you were hospitalized then your insurance should pay.

[

Well I think it depends what your definition of sex slave is. I think we can agree that's up for opinion. Bottom line is their work is sex. That is what I mean. You see this is part of the problem and your showing it and I have seen this so many times. you are not regarding them as prostitutes, you are giving them a softly softly names and not accepting they are prostitutes.

In regards to your last comment, what is your point then ? Ofcourse she will say she wants to be in a bar. I would like to be gambling and drinking whiskey all day for a living if i could but i know its not constructive. Are you suggesting that my whole argument is void because a bar girl would prefer to be in a bar !!!

Anyway you have only really stated what I have said, whats your opinion and take on it ?

A "slave" has no option but to do what they are made to do by other people. My point is that the bar girls that attend farangs are not slaves, but free agents that can and do change occupation at will. They choose to work in the bar and they can choose to leave. A "slave" can't do that.

I will call them prostitutes if you call western women that get married or live with someone in exchange for wealth prostitutes.

I prefer to equate bar girls with women in the west that work as perfectly legal escorts.

Modified to allow posting.

Ok point taken regarding sex slave.

Blimey the denial in this forum is worrying, in general not just you.

Look..................... to not accept the word prostitution being used is to simply disagree with the English language. A prostitute is someone who solicits and accepts payment for sex. To deny this is what a bar girl is, is either to suggest that she would have sex with you for any other reason or to argue with the definition as per the English dictionary. Both or either would be funny to attempt. Now most of these girls are not in Pattaya for the good food and beaches are they. They are here with the intention of soliciting themselves for sex. They are prostitutes. I can see how desperate you guys are to name them as anything apart from what they are......its painful to read.

"I prefer to equate bar girls with women in the west that work as perfectly legal escorts"

Oh dear !!!

monkeycountry

Imagine for a second that all prostitution in Thailand stopped tomorrow. Do you think the girls would then be better off or worse off? Many of them would end up sitting on a farm in Isaan sleeping, eating and watching tv all day - just as many of their family members do as we speak. I wonder what long term damage that does to your brain? They would stay dirt poor, and so will their children.

I agree with you that if the girls had a bunch of options such as good schools and decent work, then that would be much better, but that is just not the case today, so to be honest with you, I do not know if me paying a girl to sleep with me is good or bad - for her?

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone said something like this. This theory is a bit like officials in the UK who now want to allow drug addicts to have more drugs because maybe it will be worse forcing them to stop than trying to deal with the problem. You are thinking like the Thais, short term and not long term. Do you really think that long term its better to just let this process carry on or better to stop it and see the benefits later and for longer. I should not need to explain the benefits that a whole generation would have if they were not working as sex slaves for 15 years or so.

Yes Im sure it will be very painful if girls now were forced to stop prostitution but the next generation will benefit and you could argue that they will only be in the position that they would of always been in without prostitution. The question needs to be asked what would they do if they never have had prostitution. Do you really think they would not of survived. No, they would of worked, the family would work. In my experience i would say a typical 2 adults 2 children family in Isaan don't need anymore than 15,000 a month to live healthy lives. Now that must be achievable if all or most of the family works or contributes in some way unless ofcourse you have greater needs....which maybe is the problem but only born out of western influence.

To answer this fully i suppose you have to separate need and greed. Since my time in Thailand i have thought more and more that i don't think there are as many girls that really really have to do this as i first thought when i came here first. I look at how much money these girls are getting and compare that to my time in Isaan and alot of all this is greed. Families don't need 50,000 - 100,000 a month to live. Considering they all know prostitution is bad and still carry on i consider it greed. My point is if they really wanted to im sure most families could avoid sending their child off.

I think in the short term you paying for a girl helps but only in the same way giving one more hit to a drug user helps. In the long term i don't think so no because its not giving them responsibility, its giving them a fake image of earning money, they don't respect the effort of earning money and also that cash is not giving them anything that will help in the future. What about post 35 - 40 , what are they going to do then. As i said before they wont work for 6000 a month after 15 years of easy money. You have to think about the second part of their lives. No skills, no education, probably wont enjoy sex as much or at all. Mentally used to lying and cheating and taking the easy way out. Not the way i would want to be at the still young age of 35 - 40 or around that age.

Please note that I wrote "so to be honest with you, I do not know if me paying a girl to sleep with me is good or bad - for her?"

I agree with most of what you are saying The Isaan family living on 15k/month may survive yes, but they will never get out of poverty, and the kids will never see a good school or a good job, giving them a better chance in life than their parents. The fact that they are so poor, and with no hope for the future, is what often leads them to drinking and drugs in the first place!

You say the next generation will benefit from a prostitution stop. How exactly will they benefit? Yes, they may get a job, but it will be the kind of job that brings a maximum of 15k/month for the entire family, and there will be no mental stimulation for anyone in that family - and so the circle continues.

The bar girl takes a gamble - often unknowingly. She gets a unique chance to bring herself and her kids and thereby the family future out of poverty for good, but at the risk of being broke and mentally damaged at 40! As I said, I do not know if this is good or bad, considering the alternatives?

Yeah that's a fair comment.

But as i said I surely don't have to explain why the stopping of mass prostitution would benefit a generation. If you cant think of anything then maybe its a sit with a beer discussion then.

The idea is that without prostitution people are forced into their normal evolution. How would that family normally survive !!! They would all contribute and work if possible or at least most. The girl may struggle but at least grows up with the values of hard work earning her way instead of the exact opposite. This can only have positive benefits down the line. And you know even if i couldn't explain any other benefit other than the girl simply not being a sex slave then surely not being a sex slave is enough on its own.

I think you also have to be careful with that word poverty. Getting by is not poverty. Remember it is only because of the western influence that many of these girls and families have bigger needs and wants and raises the benchmark too high.

"The bar girl takes a gamble - often unknowingly. She gets a unique chance to bring herself and her kids and thereby the family future out of poverty for good, but at the risk of being broke and mentally damaged at 40! As I said, I do not know if this is good or bad, considering the alternatives?"

Thats one of my points, only a chance and a slim one at best. Not many of these working girls stay forever with a guy and have stability. Most get so consumed by it all that they are unable to hold something down. So really they have 2 chances, either meet a good man who earns good money and stay with him or just have 10 - 15 years of so much success in prostitution that it sets her up for life. Now either of those is rare or at best certainly not enough end up like that to justify a whole industry.

If the alternative is literally that the family will starve or cannot live then ofcourse i would have to be a hearltless person to still say no you shouldn't do it just for morals but I doubt there are as many in the position as we may think.

You write like someone that doesn't actually know any bargirls, or at least only superficially.

IMO you don't know any "sex slaves" that work in the farang bar scene, or if one told you that she was, she was only telling a tale in the hope you would give her money to "escape" her terrible fate.

I don't dipute that there are sex slaves in Thailand, in the Thai sex industry, but not among the bar girls of Pattaya, Phuket, Hua Hin etc and the few small farang bar areas of Bkk.

Next time you meet a bar girl, ask her if she'd rather work in a sweat shop or in the rice fields for 300 baht or less a day, or stay in the bar. I know what they'll say

Well I think it depends what your definition of sex slave is. I think we can agree that's up for opinion. Bottom line is their work is sex. That is what I mean. You see this is part of the problem and your showing it and I have seen this so many times. You are not regarding them as prostitutes, you are giving them softly softly names and not accepting they are prostitutes but instead trying to soften the wording. This is what I mentioned earlier, the first step is actually accepting that this is prostitution and its wrong.

"You write like someone that doesn't actually know any bargirls, or at least only superficially"

So just like another guy earlier you are saying that just because you dont agree with me that this automatically concludes that i don't have any experience of it. Strange logic. It is possible for people to have knowledge of something but also have a difference of opinion on it.

You might aswell say the other one......... "you obviously don't live here then" line.....come on it must be coming. You must be able to guess my life history based on disagreeing with my view.

In regards to your last comment, what is your point then ? Ofcourse she will say she wants to be in a bar. I would like to be gambling and drinking whiskey all day for a living if i could but i know its not constructive. Are you suggesting that my whole argument is void or its a point against me just because your right in saying a bar girl would prefer to be in a bar !!!

Anyway you have only really stated what I have said, whats your opinion and take on it ?

monkeycountry

Imagine for a second that all prostitution in Thailand stopped tomorrow. Do you think the girls would then be better off or worse off? Many of them would end up sitting on a farm in Isaan sleeping, eating and watching tv all day - just as many of their family members do as we speak. I wonder what long term damage that does to your brain? They would stay dirt poor, and so will their children.

I agree with you that if the girls had a bunch of options such as good schools and decent work, then that would be much better, but that is just not the case today, so to be honest with you, I do not know if me paying a girl to sleep with me is good or bad - for her?

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone said something like this. This theory is a bit like officials in the UK who now want to allow drug addicts to have more drugs because maybe it will be worse forcing them to stop than trying to deal with the problem. You are thinking like the Thais, short term and not long term. Do you really think that long term its better to just let this process carry on or better to stop it and see the benefits later and for longer. I should not need to explain the benefits that a whole generation would have if they were not working as sex slaves for 15 years or so.

Yes Im sure it will be very painful if girls now were forced to stop prostitution but the next generation will benefit and you could argue that they will only be in the position that they would of always been in without prostitution. The question needs to be asked what would they do if they never have had prostitution. Do you really think they would not of survived. No, they would of worked, the family would work. In my experience i would say a typical 2 adults 2 children family in Isaan don't need anymore than 15,000 a month to live healthy lives. Now that must be achievable if all or most of the family works or contributes in some way unless ofcourse you have greater needs....which maybe is the problem but only born out of western influence.

To answer this fully i suppose you have to separate need and greed. Since my time in Thailand i have thought more and more that i don't think there are as many girls that really really have to do this as i first thought when i came here first. I look at how much money these girls are getting and compare that to my time in Isaan and alot of all this is greed. Families don't need 50,000 - 100,000 a month to live. Considering they all know prostitution is bad and still carry on i consider it greed. My point is if they really wanted to im sure most families could avoid sending their child off.

I think in the short term you paying for a girl helps but only in the same way giving one more hit to a drug user helps. In the long term i don't think so no because its not giving them responsibility, its giving them a fake image of earning money, they don't respect the effort of earning money and also that cash is not giving them anything that will help in the future. What about post 35 - 40 , what are they going to do then. As i said before they wont work for 6000 a month after 15 years of easy money. You have to think about the second part of their lives. No skills, no education, probably wont enjoy sex as much or at all. Mentally used to lying and cheating and taking the easy way out. Not the way i would want to be at the still young age of 35 - 40 or around that age.

Please note that I wrote "so to be honest with you, I do not know if me paying a girl to sleep with me is good or bad - for her?"

I agree with most of what you are saying The Isaan family living on 15k/month may survive yes, but they will never get out of poverty, and the kids will never see a good school or a good job, giving them a better chance in life than their parents. The fact that they are so poor, and with no hope for the future, is what often leads them to drinking and drugs in the first place!

You say the next generation will benefit from a prostitution stop. How exactly will they benefit? Yes, they may get a job, but it will be the kind of job that brings a maximum of 15k/month for the entire family, and there will be no mental stimulation for anyone in that family - and so the circle continues.

The bar girl takes a gamble - often unknowingly. She gets a unique chance to bring herself and her kids and thereby the family future out of poverty for good, but at the risk of being broke and mentally damaged at 40! As I said, I do not know if this is good or bad, considering the alternatives?

Yeah that's a fair comment.

But as i said I surely don't have to explain why the stopping of mass prostitution would benefit a generation. If you cant think of anything then maybe its a sit with a beer discussion then.

The idea is that without prostitution people are forced into their normal evolution. How would that family normally survive !!! They would all contribute and work if possible or at least most. The girl may struggle but at least grows up with the values of hard work earning her way instead of the exact opposite. This can only have positive benefits down the line. And you know even if i couldn't explain any other benefit other than the girl simply not being a sex slave then surely not being a sex slave is enough on its own.

I think you also have to be careful with that word poverty. Getting by is not poverty. Remember it is only because of the western influence that many of these girls and families have bigger needs and wants and raises the benchmark too high.

"The bar girl takes a gamble - often unknowingly. She gets a unique chance to bring herself and her kids and thereby the family future out of poverty for good, but at the risk of being broke and mentally damaged at 40! As I said, I do not know if this is good or bad, considering the alternatives?"

Thats one of my points, only a chance and a slim one at best. Not many of these working girls stay forever with a guy and have stability. Most get so consumed by it all that they are unable to hold something down. So really they have 2 chances, either meet a good man who earns good money and stay with him or just have 10 - 15 years of so much success in prostitution that it sets her up for life. Now either of those is rare or at best certainly not enough end up like that to justify a whole industry.

If the alternative is literally that the family will starve or cannot live then ofcourse i would have to be a hearltless person to still say no you shouldn't do it just for morals but I doubt there are as many in the position as we may think.

Bearboxer

"This is really the process that has been going on since the Vietnam war where most of this all started and wasn't put down ever since'"

Maybe you need to read what you have written and make sure it conveys what you mean before thinking its others reading skills!!

Thai prostitution is not confined to Isaan! Have a look if and when you travel in the evening at the amount of bars, kareokes, entertainment centres etc that are for Thais. Applying the 80% pareato rules would seem reasonable. If you dig you will find some research carried out by Thai social scientists, but written in Thai.

Prostitution exists in all countries because the amount of clients - and I agree that everyone who takes a prostitute is both condoning and supporting the idea.

--

Well even if you don't understand the difference between the word "most" and "created" at least we have agreed on your last point.

You need to understand the word started and created! Also fyi I think typing in bold is uncessary and against forum rules.

"Also fyi I think typing in bold is uncessary and against forum rules"

Thanks for letting me know dad !

monkeycountry

Imagine for a second that all prostitution in Thailand stopped tomorrow. Do you think the girls would then be better off or worse off? Many of them would end up sitting on a farm in Isaan sleeping, eating and watching tv all day - just as many of their family members do as we speak. I wonder what long term damage that does to your brain? They would stay dirt poor, and so will their children.

I agree with you that if the girls had a bunch of options such as good schools and decent work, then that would be much better, but that is just not the case today, so to be honest with you, I do not know if me paying a girl to sleep with me is good or bad - for her?

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone said something like this. This theory is a bit like officials in the UK who now want to allow drug addicts to have more drugs because maybe it will be worse forcing them to stop than trying to deal with the problem. You are thinking like the Thais, short term and not long term. Do you really think that long term its better to just let this process carry on or better to stop it and see the benefits later and for longer. I should not need to explain the benefits that a whole generation would have if they were not working as sex slaves for 15 years or so.

Yes Im sure it will be very painful if girls now were forced to stop prostitution but the next generation will benefit and you could argue that they will only be in the position that they would of always been in without prostitution. The question needs to be asked what would they do if they never have had prostitution. Do you really think they would not of survived. No, they would of worked, the family would work. In my experience i would say a typical 2 adults 2 children family in Isaan don't need anymore than 15,000 a month to live healthy lives. Now that must be achievable if all or most of the family works or contributes in some way unless ofcourse you have greater needs....which maybe is the problem but only born out of western influence.

To answer this fully i suppose you have to separate need and greed. Since my time in Thailand i have thought more and more that i don't think there are as many girls that really really have to do this as i first thought when i came here first. I look at how much money these girls are getting and compare that to my time in Isaan and alot of all this is greed. Families don't need 50,000 - 100,000 a month to live. Considering they all know prostitution is bad and still carry on i consider it greed. My point is if they really wanted to im sure many families could avoid sending their child off.

I think in the short term you paying for a girl helps but only in the same way giving one more hit to a drug user helps. In the long term i don't think so because its not giving them responsibility, its giving them a fake image of earning money, they don't respect the effort of earning money and also that cash is not giving them anything that will help in the future. What about post 35 - 40 , what are they going to do then. As i said before they wont work for 6000 a month after 15 years of easy money. You have to think about the second part of their lives. No skills, no education, probably wont enjoy sex as much or at all. Mentally used to lying and cheating and taking the easy way out. Not the way i would want to be at the still young age of 35 - 40 or around that age.

Bearboxer

"This is really the process that has been going on since the Vietnam war where most of this all started and wasn't put down ever since'"

Maybe you need to read what you have written and make sure it conveys what you mean before thinking its others reading skills!!

Thai prostitution is not confined to Isaan! Have a look if and when you travel in the evening at the amount of bars, kareokes, entertainment centres etc that are for Thais. Applying the 80% pareato rules would seem reasonable. If you dig you will find some research carried out by Thai social scientists, but written in Thai.

Prostitution exists in all countries because the amount of clients - and I agree that everyone who takes a prostitute is both condoning and supporting the idea.

--

Well even if you don't understand the difference between the word "most" and "created" at least we have agreed on your last point.

How about Thai people using the sex industry?

Isn't it easier to blame the Farangs rather than to see the whole picture?

In my view us farangs are a bit to blame. We come here with a view "ahh well what harm can it do" "they come with me and I give them money, everyone is happy". "the girl looks happy"

What we don't realise is that this line of work (unless they get lucky and marry or go abroad) after years of doing it will more than likely end up with the girl being mentally and physically in bad shape. Years of having sex with different men, lying, drinking, smoking and then the biggest pyschological problem from years of earning alot of money too easily and for not much effort is never good for the mind. So by their mid 30s they have either been lucky and met their knight or thats it, career over. Now they are mentally and physically ruined, they cant ever go and work in a normal job because after years of getting maybe 30,000+ a month there is no way the mind can work 5 times longer for 5 times less the wage. So the only option is to have a baby girl with a Thai guy who will probably be lazy, not work and eventually leave. And then guess what the whole process starts again.

This is really the process that has been going on since the Vietnam war where most of this all started and wasn't put down ever since. Now Thailand has a generation of girls and women who are unable to break out of the cycle.

So all in all i think the blame is a mixture but ofcourse Isaan in history has always been more neglected by Bangkok so its no surprise I suppose.

As with alot of problems and as proved by the story above Thai people are always more bothered about the exposure of a problem rather than the problem itself. As we all know Thai peole are unable to think long term. The long term benfit to getting rid of prostitution would ofcourse be great but all the time this industry is making an immediate income then Thais will always endorse and allow.

Shame

Hogwash. at least 85% of prostitution in Thailand is a domestic exchange. It's their culture that's to blame. Foreigners did not start this, nor do foreigners account for enough economically to account for growth in the industry.

You selected a very appropriate name for yourself.

Who ?

How about Thai people using the sex industry?

Isn't it easier to blame the Farangs rather than to see the whole picture?

In my view us farangs are a bit to blame. We come here with a view "ahh well what harm can it do" "they come with me and I give them money, everyone is happy". "the girl looks happy"

What we don't realise is that this line of work (unless they get lucky and marry or go abroad) after years of doing it will more than likely end up with the girl being mentally and physically in bad shape. Years of having sex with different men, lying, drinking, smoking and then the biggest pyschological problem from years of earning alot of money too easily and for not much effort is never good for the mind. So by their mid 30s they have either been lucky and met their knight or thats it, career over. Now they are mentally and physically ruined, they cant ever go and work in a normal job because after years of getting maybe 30,000+ a month there is no way the mind can work 5 times longer for 5 times less the wage. So the only option is to have a baby girl with a Thai guy who will probably be lazy, not work and eventually leave. And then guess where that girl will be heading when she is 15/16......................and here the whole process starts again.

This is really the process that has been going on since the Vietnam war where most of this all started and wasn't put down ever since. Now Thailand has a generation of girls and women who are unable to break out of the cycle.

So all in all i think the blame is a mixture but ofcourse Isaan in history has always been more neglected by Bangkok so its no surprise that this is all convenient for Bangkok.

As with alot of problems and as proved by the story above Thai people are always more bothered about the exposure of a problem rather than the problem itself. As we all know Thai peole are unable to think long term. The long term benfit to getting rid of prostitution would ofcourse be great but all the time this industry is making an immediate income then Thais will always endorse and allow.

Shame

You really think the Veitnam War caused prostitution in Thailand?? Guess you don't live here then. As others have posted, a significant % probably as least 80% is to cater for Thais. Like all societies and countries prostituton goes way back in history. Many foreigners, business visitors and tourists come to Thailand and take advantage of what is already there. Do you really think the sex industry would stop if foreigner stopped coming (no pun intended!).

Must admit i'm getting a bit worried about peoples reading skills. No i didn't say that Vietnam caused prostitution. I was talking about a process that seems to have started since the Vietnam war when it comes to prostitution in tourist areas. I did also say in my very first sentence "In my view us farangs are a bit to blame"

Yes im sure there has always been prostitution. Im not sure how anyone can put a percentage of 80% to cater for Thais but there you go. Is there a researcher walking around Isaan with a clipboard ?!!! lol

Yes i agree foreigners have mainly taken advantage of what is already here but in the context of the topic we are talking about foreigners and tourist areas which is why i posted what i did.

and yes been living here for 7 years. Its a basic concept but just because you don't agree with my point of view doesn't lead to the conclusion that i don't live here. A illogical connection made too much on this forum.

Besides this is all good knock about stuff but the issue here is prostitution, does it matter what part of the world the human male comes from. Anyone who takes a prostitute, wherever they are from is endorsing and supporting this industry.

Good, these taxi drivers have been far too fussy and rude for too long. You cant drive around rejecting people just looking for the perfect job combining distance, time and money which is what they do. I have even been in taxi ranks erected outside shopping centres where drivers are saying no to people. But come the early hours of the morning they are begging for your business.

2 problems with taxi drivers in Bangkok. First is they are driven by Thais, which means natural laziness and need to get the most money for the least effort. I know this cant be changed but its a factor. Second is because in my opinion the rate per KM is too low. You get into a cab and it starts at 40 baht but then you can get quite far and it ends up at only 90 baht or so for example. That journey could of taken up to 15 minutes. So compared to a short trip of say 5 minutes they haven't made much more plus more likely to be in more traffic. There is no incentive to go further and longer on the meter. What these drivers go for and want is either lots of 5 -10 minutes short trips because the start price is 40 baht or negotiated long trips.

So make the start price less and increase the per KM rate.

Anyway this is not controllable so its all talk anyway but at least it makes the Thai people think the politicians are working !!!

Prostitution is the biggest industry in Thailand. I was in Thailand for first time 1975. Pattaya was only short beach street with few small hotel and few restaurant, same Patong in Phuket. Look it now, naked girls,girls,girls

"Prostitution is the biggest industry in Thailand" ..............ermmm you might get some replies to that....lol

I don't think so. Even tourism as a whole is only about 7% of the GDP i think and i'm not sure how domestic prostitution could be measured anyway.

Anyway its not Thailand's biggest industry. I think you will find its probably manufacturing

Need to separate personal feelings from business

It hasnt hurt Rio to much.

You dont have to love it (pun intended)

and you dont have to acknowledge it in public

its an asset. Use it, and if you want to effect change

do it in the back ground while slowly starving the business you want to discourage.

TL has a lot more bigger fish to fry than this.

I take it you have been to Rio ?

I have and unless its had a huge change over the last 4 years I cant see how anyone can say it hasnt hurt Rio. Only 2/3 kms from Cocobana beach there are slums which house thousands of people in small spaces. I have been to areas only metres from the tourist areas which look terrible. This is where many of the working girls live. Many are using drugs daily and live a life similar to Pattaya bar girls.........drinking, lying, having multiple guys etc etc. With Rio, as with Thailand a generation of unskilled, mentally and physically ruined women are in their society which will be mainly unproductive in the second part of their lives.

Sorry but i cant think of any system in the world where prostitution "wont hurt" .

How about Thai people using the sex industry?

Isn't it easier to blame the Farangs rather than to see the whole picture?

In my view us farangs are a bit to blame. We come here with a view "ahh well what harm can it do" "they come with me and I give them money, everyone is happy". "the girl looks happy"

What we don't realise is that this line of work (unless they get lucky and marry or go abroad) after years of doing it will more than likely end up with the girl being mentally and physically in bad shape. Years of having sex with different men, lying, drinking, smoking and then the biggest pyschological problem from years of earning alot of money too easily and for not much effort is never good for the mind. So by their mid 30s they have either been lucky and met their knight or thats it, career over. Now they are mentally and physically ruined, they cant ever go and work in a normal job because after years of getting maybe 30,000+ a month there is no way the mind can work 5 times longer for 5 times less the wage. So the only option is to have a baby girl with a Thai guy who will probably be lazy, not work and eventually leave. And then guess what the whole process starts again.

This is really the process that has been going on since the Vietnam war where most of this all started and wasn't put down ever since. Now Thailand has a generation of girls and women who are unable to break out of the cycle.

So all in all i think the blame is a mixture but ofcourse Isaan in history has always been more neglected by Bangkok so its no surprise I suppose.

As with alot of problems and as proved by the story above Thai people are always more bothered about the exposure of a problem rather than the problem itself. As we all know Thai peole are unable to think long term. The long term benfit to getting rid of prostitution would ofcourse be great but all the time this industry is making an immediate income then Thais will always endorse and allow.

Shame

Hogwash. at least 85% of prostitution in Thailand is a domestic exchange. It's their culture that's to blame. Foreigners did not start this, nor do foreigners account for enough economically to account for growth in the industry.

I believe I said "a bit to blame"..................................... first sentence

Hope your not suggesting we are not to blame at all ?

Typical Thais. As with most things they are more bothered about the exposure of a problem rather than the problem itself.

End of the day Thailand endorses and allows prostitution in this country. The fact that don't want this to be shown shows they know these practices are immoral. The fact that they dont want it showed but want to continue allowing it to happen is a double standard but i'm not surprised !!