rinteln

If you went to a restaurant in New York and you were charged more for the same meal just because the waiter determined you had more money you would hit the roof with anger. He would be sacked and the restaurant would be sued.

For some strange reason we dont bring the same logic here.

Think you know why we don't bring the same logic here. This is Thailand, not New York.

Yes I agree. My point here is more about the Expats that I know will attack my comment. They know that it would be wrong in their own countries but here not only will they think it isnt wrong but will probably attack anyone who thinks it is. An amazing reversal !!

The fact we are in Thailand should not change whether we know its right or not. Yes it wont change whether it happens but doesnt change the moral.

If you went to a restaurant in New York and you were charged more for the same meal just because the waiter determined you had more money you would hit the roof with anger. He would be sacked and the restaurant would be sued.

For some strange reason we dont bring the same logic here.

Think you know why we don't bring the same logic here. This is Thailand, not New York.

Yes I agree. My point here is more about the Expats that I know will attack my comment. They know that it would be wrong in their own countries but here not only will they think it isnt wrong but will probably attack anyone who thinks it is. An amazing reversal !!

I always love this subject theme when it comes up. Some people have been here so long.

The bottom line question here for me is are the foreigners being charged more for these things because they are not citizens/residents of the country or because they simply have more money. If the first then this in my book would be a justified and logical reason for the difference in price. If the second then it is a simple case of racism and in any normal developed country this would not be tolerated.

There will be people who jump on this and get all excited. The bottom line is we all know charging people more for things just because it is assumed they have more money (determined by their skin colour) would not last 1 second in any decent developed country. People would be sued, sacked and all sorts of legal action within hours or days if the equivalent practices happened in the west.

The fact is that Thais view farangs as humans that have more money. They don't care how we got more money or why we do, they are taught from childhood that we just have more money and thus should pay more for things. Its instinctive.

The other reason why I think it is racism is because their way of distinguishing us from someone who doesn't have to pay more. For example, a Cambodian (an alien, just like us) goes to a zoo. He/she will more than likely be regarded as a Thai and thus pay the local rate. Why !!! because they look Thai. Now if the reason for foreigners really really wasn't racist and was just about the legal fact of foreign people paying more then every government organisations would ask for ID to these places but they don't. They separate by how the people look and thus the way you look determines your wealth and in turn determines whether you pay more.

Now to the rest of world and anyone else other than the Expats of Thailand this would be regarded as clear racism.

Expats in Thailand laugh it off and say, "ahh well this is everywhere in Thailand, chill out".

If you went to a restaurant in New York and you were charged more for the same meal just because the waiter determined you had more money you would hit the roof with anger. He would be sacked and the restaurant would be sued.

For some strange reason we dont bring the same logic here.

if you've only 4 pages left in your passport ( i presume it is UK passport), get clued up on renewing it if you're going to be in this region for a while......last i heard was that they need to be issued from HK and can take several weeks....

Hi,

Yeah you are right it is a UK passport. I have renewed in HK before.

Thanks

Cambodia E-visa is definitely the way to go, just be sure to print two copies - one for entry, and one for exit (although they didn't even ask for mine on exit).

As for your question about using an agent: I assume you are talking about getting a Thai Tourist visa in Phnom Penh. Things have changed a bit, and they are definitely discouraging walk-in applicants. That said, the visa is $40, and I'm sure you could do it yourself. Otherwise, check the price from various visa services. I think Lucky Lucky on Monivong was $42, but took three days. We grossly overpaid by going direct to the guard outside the embassy, and paying $55 for next-day service (we went in the AM); found out about Lucky Lucky while we were there on other business. The guard did everything, all we supplied was our passports and one photo, no paperwork. We've used him twice, and even though we found out he is overcharging, it was a painless experience. He even delivers to your hotel/guesthouse.

Please report back, especially if you use another agent, so we all can learn something.

Have fun.

Hi,

Thanks for the info.

That's useful info for the future but on this occasion I am just going for a normal border run to get 14 days. I was thinking about getting myself there but if an agent says like 1000 baht then its worth it. Anything more and ill just do it all myself.

Its reassuring to know the E Visa works smoothly.

Thanks again

Many people have used the e-visa but be careful which website you use to get it. The official website will be not be a .com address. Yes you will only get a small stamp.

A visa runs service would probably deduct the cost of the visa from the normal fee.

Great, thanks for that. Yes I am on the .gov site so I think this looks ok.

Cheers

Hi guys,

This week I will be going on a visa run to Cambodia. I am yet to decide whether I will do it on my own or with an agent. I suppose the answer to this post may decide.

I want to apply for one of those E Visas online and then use that. Reason being is that I only have 4 pages left on my passport and I don't want one of those stickers that takes up a whole page.

So has anyone ever been on a border run and used this E Service ? Did you still go with an agent ?, I assume its cheaper. Do they only put a small stamp inside at the Cambodia end ?

Any advice or experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks

and ?

Why is the fact that they are foreigners an issue ? Doesnt matter who they are. The news is not exactly headline stuff anyway but surely this should read "33 randomly selected people" .

Thailand as usual keeping their reputation as being possibly one of the most racist countries in the world.

Thailand is not controlled by a fanatical PC government desperate not to cause offence to groups of people that are known to break laws e.g. terrorists, and so can use profiling to target the likely suspects.

So you agree with the profiling then or were you just stating a fact ?

What a joke! They should really be targeting taxi drivers, bus drivers, BTS operators, and MRT operators who pose a much greater risk while high on drugs, not someone walking the streets at night. Thailand is getting to be more anti-foreigner by the day. That's ok, because we are not stupid and we are looking elsewhere to spend our money.....I'm in the process of moving my money to Viet Nam

Why would immigration officers target Thais?

Good point, Although I would say why not target Thais? That is the principle for me. Surely we are not saying that immigration police only police crimes committed by foreigners !! If an immigration policeman sees a Thai robbing a 7/11 he wouldn't just ignore it because he is immigration police.

My follow on from that would be why are immigration police going out to check for drugs and not just normal police anyway.

"If an immigration policeman sees a Thai robbing a 7/11 he wouldn't just ignore it because he is immigration police."

I wish I was as confident as you are, on that statement.

Good point, I might of slipped up there...lol

2 weeks ago, i almost got arrested. 5 min before I left the Filipino restaurant in Suk 71, around midnight. They raided, arrested my friends who forgot to bring their passport, brought to Chaengwattana and did drug test. They stayed there until 5AM.

Out of interest did they also do a drug test there for the Thais in the restaurant or only the foreigners who were taken to the police station for having no passport ?

There are Thais in the restaurant..They just took the foreigners without passport to Chaenwattana immigration and did the drug test there..

So again the point is proven. If the police were working with the principle of upholding the law then everyone would be tested, possibly including the staff. Because after all every human is capable of taking the drugs and no one is exempt if they break this law.

I think once we live in Thailand for a while we seem to except this as normal practice. Can you imagine the uproar and anger if British police raided a nightclub and only took black people and tested them, or only Eastern European people, or even just non UK residents.

Again this is racism and keeps the reputation going that Thailand has a racist backbone. Probably more through ignorance but never the less still racism.

2 weeks ago, i almost got arrested. 5 min before I left the Filipino restaurant in Suk 71, around midnight. They raided, arrested my friends who forgot to bring their passport, brought to Chaengwattana and did drug test. They stayed there until 5AM.

Out of interest did they also do a drug test there for the Thais in the restaurant or only the foreigners who were taken to the police station for having no passport ?

and ?

Why is the fact that they are foreigners an issue ? Doesnt matter who they are. The news is not exactly headline stuff anyway but surely this should read "33 randomly selected people" .

Thailand as usual keeping their reputation as being possibly one of the most racist countries in the world.

No <snip> the article said "33 randomly selected foreigners"

If they had taken a random sampling of Thais and foreigners this would have been more justifiable, but targeting just foreigners is unacceptable

Crobe

Cosidering almost 50% were positive why is it unacceptable?...good riddance to bad **** and take their dope with them!

His point is more of profiling. It is good that people who commit crimes are caught but to intentionally profile your targets beforehand and/or report it that way is what he is saying is unacceptable.

Profiling this way indicates to me that police are not doing their job on the principles of actually enforcing the law but instead targeting a certain group of people who are more likely to gain them success, more of it, better figures or more pay offs. Otherwise why is there need to target certain people. If your aim is simply to stop drug usage then it shouldnt matter who you stop.

Good point, Although I would say why not target Thais? That is the principle for me. Surely we are not saying that immigration police only police crimes committed by foreigners !! If an immigration policeman sees a Thai robbing a 7/11 he wouldn't just ignore it because he is immigration police.

My follow on from that would be why are immigration police going out to check for drugs and not just normal police anyway.

I would think this was actually aimed at targeting foreigners overstaying, without documents etc. and some bright spark came up with the additional idea of drugs testing. I doubt that it's in immigration's brief to just go out and do drug tests so they'd need another reason to pull someone up first - and they wouldn't test any Thais. Though if they knew a Thai was carrying drugs I'm sure they'd do something.

That is a good point, probably right.

Thai authorities are very strict when it comes to drugs. One of the strictest in the world. They want to convey the message of a 0% tolerance to drugs in the kingdom.

You surely couldn't pay your way out of being caught with drugs, right?

I live in Pattaya so maybe my answer to this will not be agreed by some but for sure in Pattaya the police are paid off for drug stops.

In general I have no respect or admiration for police in Thailand. They police what they want to police and what gets them the most amount of money and makes them look the most effective. Maybe i'm more used to Pattaya and so will gladly be corrected if needed but it is the case here for sure.

Not sure about BKK. Although I would doubt it for a large op like this one. Maybe on a one to one basis.

The concern here is not that the number of positives was so high, or that it is a known area for drug use, but the fact that this was carried out by the immigration bureau instead of the normal police narcotics squad.

If the area is known for drug use then the police should be looking into the supply of drugs in the area, and catching those, rather than specifically targeting the foreigners.

It would have been more acceptable if the police had done a full swoop on the area, including trying to pick up locals and drug sellers, and had the immigration bureau on hand in case any foreigners were caught up in the process.

The way in which this is portrayed, rightly or wrongly, is that foreigners, as opposed to locals, will be targeted during their stays in the country.

While I cannot condone in any way anyone acting against the laws of the country, racial profiling is not the way forward.

One person in this swoop was negative for drugs but was caught with not having a passport - an offense that I believe many non-Thais are guilty of in one way or another - there are instances where you leave your passport for safekeeping at a hotel or as guarantee for a rental, and therefore do not have the original with you - which would not be a good idea anyway given the levels of crime and theft now prevalent.

All foreigners could therefore, be caught in an immigration swoop at one time or another, and sanctions applied (deported), so if this is to be the normal operating procedure for the immigration bureau from now on, we may all be in trouble

Crobe

Totally agree.

What a joke! They should really be targeting taxi drivers, bus drivers, BTS operators, and MRT operators who pose a much greater risk while high on drugs, not someone walking the streets at night. Thailand is getting to be more anti-foreigner by the day. That's ok, because we are not stupid and we are looking elsewhere to spend our money.....I'm in the process of moving my money to Viet Nam

Why would immigration officers target Thais?

Good point, Although I would say why not target Thais? That is the principle for me. Surely we are not saying that immigration police only police crimes committed by foreigners !! If an immigration policeman sees a Thai robbing a 7/11 he wouldn't just ignore it because he is immigration police.

My follow on from that would be why are immigration police going out to check for drugs and not just normal police anyway.

Sorry guys stop name calling,to early for shit like that.Back to the what happend.What is the problem with drug check in a area that the police suspect there are drugs? I would piss in a cup with i smile. If people doing drugs then good the get arrested, put them in jail and then out of the country.I realy dont se this as a rasist act.If its a area have is a lot of foreigner and the suspect drugs, its logic that they are the one that get checked.And 16 of them was tested positive?wow i would say for once the police did a great job to get some shit head drug users.

I agree with your concept if they had also tested Thais but the article says selected foreigners. That is what got my back up.

As far as the drugs go yes I agree they seemed to do a great job, well done to them.

and ?

Why is the fact that they are foreigners an issue ? Doesnt matter who they are. The news is not exactly headline stuff anyway but surely this should read "33 randomly selected people" .

Thailand as usual keeping their reputation as being possibly one of the most racist countries in the world.

No <snip> the article said "33 randomly selected foreigners"

If they had taken a random sampling of Thais and foreigners this would have been more justifiable, but targeting just foreigners is unacceptable

Crobe

"No <snip> the article said "33 randomly selected foreigners" - So abusive so early on...wow

Sorry I think you may not of read what I said properly. I said "surely this should of read" "33 randomly selected people" and not just "foreigners".

So we are in agreement on this....lol.

<snip>

I think in general we are probably done on this thread. I have asked one of the mods to close it as I get this feeling this thread may only encourage old battles to be reopened just for the sake of it.

The poll speaks for itself. 47 votes is enough to get a general idea and answer my query.

Certainly has been an interesting last 7 days of debate on this subject. Same again next year.....lol

But now it seems some of those detractors of last week are softening their stance.

No. That is a merely self-serving, wishful contention based on a willful misunderstanding.

When our PTY residents want to ban Songkran, it is only as a preferable alternative to its excessive length in PTY.

"HATE SONGKRAN" is shorthand for "hate that it goes on for 9 days." That's the stance. Has been, is now, always will be. And the reason is utterly obvious. Countless examples of grief have been given.

So far it seems even if Expats had their way then Songkran would still be 3 days.

In a way making it a public poll may not of been a good idea . . . .

Duh. Throughout countless posts, most members have affirmed they'd be fine if it were 3 days. Anyway, so what?

Hence this "poll" is merely a way of sly trolling and looking for nits to pick.

I believe some of your posts have been removed for bickering? Seems you just want to enjoy more of it.

Well lots of people's comments have been removed for bickering. Some on your side of the argument and some on mine, that's always the case on this forum.

If this poll was regarded as trolling then it would of been removed by now by the Mods.

Had my first taste of action yesterday, to be honest I had been miserable thinking about it after reading everything on here about how people hated it etc. Anyway after a few minutes my mind was quickly changed. Everyone having fun, roasting hot day, playing in the water, drinking beer, men, women and children laughing, playing and having fun.

Really does get on my nerves farangs trying to dictate what should happen in Thailand, when I was in england it would make me livid when you would have immigrants telling us that Christmas was offensive or that I cant do things this way because it offends people etc. If you dont like it go to somewhere that local tradition doesnt wind you up or just simply leave whilst songkran is on and let the thai people and farangs who want to join in the festives get on with it.

What goes on in Pattaya or other farang intensive locations has not a lot to do with tradition. Tradition is when the children pay respect to their elders and is a charming occasion. Rightly or wrongly I blame farangs for turning what was a sensitive and respectful occasion into drunken mayhem - and the locals follow suit. Not a few offices and businesses in town close for a whole week causing disruption to many. As others have pointed out, those who participate in hurling water, which many would like assurances that it is potable, hardly qualify to be considered forming part of the intelligensia - which goes some way to explaining their brutal senselessness..

"As others have pointed out, those who participate in hurling water, which many would like assurances that it is potable, hardly qualify to be considered forming part of the intelligensia"

So just to clarify, does that apply to anyone who throws water ? Just wondering.

"What goes on in Pattaya or other farang intensive locations has not a lot to do with tradition"

Are you saying non traditional Songkran only happens in farang intensive areas ?

Oh dear...................

I agree with you 100%, 3 days is fine and even though I got shot down with my previous comments . For once a year Songkran is fun and it's especially great to see the Thais enjoying themselves.

And judging by all the knockers you are right to have a NO Songkran choice. But now it seems some of those detractors of last week are softening their stance.

Hit the nail on the head. That is the purpose of this poll/thread. After the last 7/8 days of non stop moaning regarding Songkran I thought I would put things to the test and see how long these Expats would have Songkran in Pattaya if they had a choice. So far it seems even if Expats had their way then Songkran would still be 3 days.

In a way making it a public poll may not of been a good idea as it may stop the potential "No Songkran" people voting for that because everyone can see their vote.

^ Who made the Pattaya Residents Songkran Poll ???

Cheap but nice try.

I think it seems fairly obvious from this and other threads that I have no interest in trying to abolish or change Songkran in Pattaya. More the opposite. I think I have had many a battle on this forum in the last week with moaning Expats who think they have the right to demand or expect change to Songkran in Pattaya.

You will notice in my first post when I opened the topic I did put (if Expats could decide). Again seems obvious to me.

The purpose of this poll is to simply get in opinions on how long the moaner Expats on this forum would like it for if they could change it. Very important to see the distinction between collecting opinions and people trying to change, or expecting change when they shouldnt be.

The motive of this poll I assumed, to the regulars, would be quite obvious....maybe my expectations were too high, sorry I didn't make it simpler.