jshorts

Suicide by jumping off a building, it is pretty rare outside of Thailand isn't it? Whether clothed or naked, I just don't hear of it happening on such a large scale anywhere else?

How many suicides do you actually hear about? I don't believe that the western press gives this topic much space.

Well when people overdose on prescription drugs, or slit their wrists, or take their lives in their own home, you might not hear about it. When somebody jumps off the 18th floor of a building, it makes one hell of a mess, and I am sure everyone in the neighborhood hears about it. That's the thing, I can't think of it ever happening where I come from, but it happens almost weekly around here?

Perhaps it is because of the type of person who comes to Thailand? I don't believe people who move to Thailand are particularly representative of the greater world population.

There seems to be an implication from the article that this was suicide over health issues.

I don't know. If I were about to throw myself off a balcony to "end it all," I don't think I'd do it naked?

Regardless, RIP, Mr. Schmidberger.

You can understand that a terminally ill person might choose the time and place for their end, but not that they might choose to do it naked?

Splitting hairs aren't you?

Missing the inference completely : 'naked' meaning perhaps not alone at the time, and further, perhaps not suicide.

Why would you imagine that naked means not alone? Plenty of people who live alone don't wear clothes.

Maybe this is why Thais let foreigners buy condos here. Does not sound like suicide to me. Where else do you hear of people falling from a condo to end it all. Something wrong but the police have their excuse not to bother to investigate I guess. All nice and cleanly wrapped up!!!!!!!

I don't understand what relationship there is between a foreigner buying a condo and suicide. What are you implying?

If someone jumps from his balcony, what is so difficult to understand?

I think there are a lot of things about this story that have been left out, or are simply unknown. I can understand, to some degree, a suicide if death from cancer in imminent, but not naked, and not by diving from the 18th floor of a condo. There are other ways that would, in my mind, seem somewhat more "appropriate". Something about this story just doesn't sound right.

I'm wondering what you see as being "appropriate" as a method for suicide.

It is, indeed, a cowardly act.

RIP Mr. Harald Schmidberger, it strange way for a very rich man to go

What do you see as the relationship between wealth and suicide? I don't understand.

There seems to be an implication from the article that this was suicide over health issues.

I don't know. If I were about to throw myself off a balcony to "end it all," I don't think I'd do it naked?

Regardless, RIP, Mr. Schmidberger.

Why wouldn't you do it naked?

I can't see why anyone would be bothered if another person is topless or not. It's just a human body. Society already has too many rules. Nothing wrong with being topless. Why does it bother you so much? Are your lives so shallow that you have to focus on such trivial things?

"Manners are the oil on the friction of society."

I guess what I don't understand here is that apparently the hotel elected to extend credit to this tour operator. They must have extended credit, because if they didn't, then there would be no way for the bills to have been unpaid.

Then, because of their poor decision to extend credit to a client who was not credit worthy, they attempt to hold the innocent travellers responsible and confiscate their belongings until a 3rd party makes good on their debts?

The problem here is that the hotel made a stupid decision so that they could fill more rooms. It was the hotel that made the mistake, and the hotel that needs to suck it up and admit they are the ones responsible. If the answer is that the nobody in the hospitality industry prepays and you must extend credit if you want to stay in business, then the hotel owner was responsible for including a surcharge for this risk in the fees they charge the tour companies.

Can someone here who is trying to argue that the hotel was justified in doing what they did please address these issues. Others in this thread have made theses statements already regarding prepayment, and then they are promptly ignored by those seeking to justify this reprehensible behavior.

So please answer this:

Why should a hotel be allowed to hold an innocent 3rd party responsible for their bad decision to extend credit to a non credit worthy tour company?

If the hotel doesn't trust the tour company, they need to demand prepayment. If the hotel wants the business from the tour company despite the risk, then that is the hotel's choice and the hotel's responsibility. If the hotel misjudged the risk, then they need to learn from this experience and change their business model. In no case is it the traveller's responsibility to pay for the errors of the hotel.

Your logic is from a western point of view.

It is not the Thai way.

The contract is with the tour company. If they don't pay up, as part of their contract, they can only take their complaint to the company (or the bankruptcy lawyer for them). They cannot choose to randomly start assigning blame and cost on others. They have no support for this.

I don't understand what you mean by "support." This is Thailand and as you can see, the Thais do things differently than westerners.

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

I find all your questions simple-minded.

1. The guests of the hotel already paid their money to the tour company, and have now been ripped off just as much as the hotel. If the tour company collapses, a customer-oriented hotel would do their best to show some sympathy, and not hold the personal possessions of their fellow victims hostage to try to make sure the bill gets paid. Some of their guest may not be able to come up with the money for airfare to get home, much less pay a second time for their hotel room.

The hotel is surely going to suffer some losses, but if word gets around (which it does faster and wider than ever these days) they will lose far more long-term by showing themselves to be rapacious <deleted>.

2. Many Thais aiming for careers in the hospitality industry do in fact attend the world-leading educational institutions overseas, by far the most respected in the world are Swiss. I have also seen local "branch/franchises" set up here affiliated with these Swiss schools, but suspect they wouldn't have the same level of quality.

Thais learning their philosophy of customer service from other Thais, especially those with a Chinese business mindset will never provide the level of customer care (see that word - genuine **caring** is required!) that the higher reaches of international traveller has come to expect from having their needs met by western-trained professionals.

Losing a bit of money in the short term in order to provide outstanding customer satisfaction is a formula followed by the world leaders in this industry, and a growing number of others as well. Thais need to start adopting the same long-term philosophy in order to effectively compete as the world continues to open up.

3 Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?

Now you're really being thick aren't you 8-)

Thanks for your kind words.

It always amazes me how people use the internet's anonymity to insult people they don't know. What could you possibly gain by doing that?

We are here to exchange views and pass the time of day. Why would anyone attempt to make it unpleasant?

I'll respond as politely as I can to your comments.

1) You used the phrase " a customer-oriented hotel would do their [sic!] best to show some sympathy." I believe that you might have forgotten that this is a Thai hotel, and as I wrote in a previous message, Thais are often only concerned about today and not concerned with the long-term.

2) Perhaps many Thais do attend Swiss schools. I would hazard a guess however, that the majority does not.

And, sure enough, you provide support to my point when you indicate that you feel that even Swiss branches in Thailand wouldn't be up to the standards expected in the western world.

I so agree with you that "customer care" is often lacking in Thailand. And, the very sad fact is that Thais do not care about providing "customer care."

As a result, Thailand is not considered a world leader in the hospitality industry.

However, Thailand does have many endearing qualities which attract a vast number of tourists.

3) My wedding ring has never left my finger.

And, no! my fingers are not thick.

that "[sic!]" was neither polite nor appropriate.

and hotels should be customer-orientated.. whether thai, russian, swiss, whatever.

that was the point. this hotel didn't show sympathy when they should have.

Awww, Gee! After being called "simple-minded" and "thick," I just couldn't help the slight dig. Please forgive my lack of self-restraint.

Obviously, from your perspective hotels should be customer-orientated. My perspective is that this is Thailand and its is further obvious that the Thais don't agree with you.

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

I find all your questions simple-minded.

1. The guests of the hotel already paid their money to the tour company, and have now been ripped off just as much as the hotel. If the tour company collapses, a customer-oriented hotel would do their best to show some sympathy, and not hold the personal possessions of their fellow victims hostage to try to make sure the bill gets paid. Some of their guest may not be able to come up with the money for airfare to get home, much less pay a second time for their hotel room.

The hotel is surely going to suffer some losses, but if word gets around (which it does faster and wider than ever these days) they will lose far more long-term by showing themselves to be rapacious <deleted>.

2. Many Thais aiming for careers in the hospitality industry do in fact attend the world-leading educational institutions overseas, by far the most respected in the world are Swiss. I have also seen local "branch/franchises" set up here affiliated with these Swiss schools, but suspect they wouldn't have the same level of quality.

Thais learning their philosophy of customer service from other Thais, especially those with a Chinese business mindset will never provide the level of customer care (see that word - genuine **caring** is required!) that the higher reaches of international traveller has come to expect from having their needs met by western-trained professionals.

Losing a bit of money in the short term in order to provide outstanding customer satisfaction is a formula followed by the world leaders in this industry, and a growing number of others as well. Thais need to start adopting the same long-term philosophy in order to effectively compete as the world continues to open up.

3 Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?

Now you're really being thick aren't you 8-)

Thanks for your kind words.

It always amazes me how people use the internet's anonymity to insult people they don't know. What could you possibly gain by doing that?

We are here to exchange views and pass the time of day. Why would anyone attempt to make it unpleasant?

I'll respond as politely as I can to your comments.

1) You used the phrase " a customer-oriented hotel would do their [sic!] best to show some sympathy." I believe that you might have forgotten that this is a Thai hotel, and as I wrote in a previous message, Thais are often only concerned about today and not concerned with the long-term.

2) Perhaps many Thais do attend Swiss schools. I would hazard a guess however, that the majority does not.

And, sure enough, you provide support to my point when you indicate that you feel that even Swiss branches in Thailand wouldn't be up to the standards expected in the western world.

I so agree with you that "customer care" is often lacking in Thailand. And, the very sad fact is that Thais do not care about providing "customer care."

As a result, Thailand is not considered a world leader in the hospitality industry.

However, Thailand does have many endearing qualities which attract a vast number of tourists.

3) My wedding ring has never left my finger.

And, no! my fingers are not thick.

just goes to show ... it's not even safe to put your valuables in the safe !!

I guess the only option is to make sure the hotel you book into has the coded safes so you can change the code to what you like.

Please do not forget that there is always a way for the hotel to open any safe. (Skeleton key or passcode) This is used in cases where guests check out and leave a safe locked.

Russian tourists already paid to Lanta-tour for air fair and hotel rooms, so the hotel credited the company Lanta-tour Thai and expect to get money later. Tourists don't have any responsibility to pay their rooms because they already paid. It's problem of the hotel that they credited tour company. And nobody said that Lanta-tour will not pay (responsibility of this company was insured by special fund) to the hotel, but the hotel already seized tourist's belongings.

PS: Small remark. There were more than 6000 customers of Lanta-tour around the world and they didn't have any problems in other countries except Thailand. They were allowed to stay in hotels and flight back to home.

PSS: It's really big news in Russia and thai hotels who seized belongings already blacklisted by Rostourism.

Does this surprise you?

The Thai philosophy is: Only be concerned about today.

"Que sera, sera."

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

I can remember when the owner of the hotel owed money to the suppliers involved in the construction of the Ambassador Hotel Jomtien. He refused to pay also!

And your point is?

IMO companies providing communication platforms should not be enabling censorship. Period.

This forum is censored. How do you feel about that?

Are you saying that State Intelligence publication should not be censored? Terrorist information? Illegal acts?

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

The staff of the respective Embassy would be the

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

Embassy Staff whom im sure they contacted when they got kicked to the curb without their belongings. Embassy Staff would then contact the hotel as their representatives and explain the situation to the manager and verify their collective stories. At that point it is up to the manager, and apparently this one decided to keep personal property in lieu of payment. I'm sure legal but ethical is another story. Switzerland has some of the best Hotel schools in the world and why not? Am i supposed to wear my ring to the beach? My bad.

If the hotel management gave back the personal belongings, how would it ensure collection of payment?

If Thais don't go to school here, I am still unclear why they would go to school in Switzerland.

I wear all of my rings to the beach. Why don't you?

Jingthing:

Signed that right?

Oh, please! This is Thailand.

Holding personal belongings in a safe deposit box is despicable. A classic no class Thai move.

And your point is?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I could easily imagine many hotels taking this route in the case of non-payment.

Holding your property is one thing. Holding your passport and wallet is another. It may be "legal" in Thailand but it shouldn't be.

If you rented your motorcycle to a stranger who gave you his ID as security and then that person didn't pay you, would you return the ID?

They were left in lock boxes, not left as a security deposit.

I don't understand your point.

The hotel hasn't been paid and they don't want to release the personal property until they get payment.

Holding personal belongings in a safe deposit box is despicable. A classic no class Thai move.

And your point is?

Holding your property is one thing. Holding your passport and wallet is another. It may be "legal" in Thailand but it shouldn't be.

If you rented your motorcycle to a stranger who gave you his ID as security and then that person didn't pay you, would you return the ID?

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

Twitter is gambling here. Nothing is to stop more robust competitors from emerging and dipping into Twitter's market share. The joy shared by certain ruling elites, who inflict incessant propaganda on to their dumbed-down nations, might be premature.

Totally agree, this leaves the door open for someone to copy there platform but without the censorship.

And, what kind of company would want to fight with a country such as France, Germany,Thailand or China?

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

And a devil just got his horns.

They are the victims, any hotel manager worth a salt would know this and allow access to their property and provide them with every convenience necessary until things are straightened out. And a bottle of vodka.

And, by "straightened out" you mean . . . ?