womble

Yeah I havn't been back to the islands since this news broke but I get the feeling that most people there will be thinking that way. I expect many down south probobally wish it was real, went off, and did what Thaksin claims it was supposed to do.

Honestly though, when you look at all the facts as they have been reported by the police themselves, anyone who thinks for themselves can really only draw the conclusion that it was a set up.

Watching Thai TV, most are reportint the government line, although the bangkok post news on channel 11 is extremely funny. Two of the presenters seem to be scared to talk about anything political, but the guy who does the business section certainly doesn't hold back with his views.

Who is he???

I have asked a few Thais here in Bangkok what they think of this and not a single one so far believes the bomb was real. They all think it was a set up by Thaksin.

I was wondering if anyone from the provinces could tell us what the reaction is there. I'm guessing it's the complete opposite.

Oh Please,

"Threatening land officials to obtain a title deed".

He may be dodgy in Denmark, and may scare a few farangs here, but i seriously doubt he could use the threat of force on any Thai government officials in the land office. Land officials are always connected, and how do u think the Thai police would look on a farang doing such things. It's possible Thai's he's involved in may be doing this, but not himself directly.

He couldn't do this type of thing without the help of locals.

Perhaps this is the first pic of an injured hired thug. Probobally struck accidently by one of his accomplices. Click for larger pic.

And here's a better pic of those wrist bands if u click on it.

One-legged man not my man: Sita

A Thai Rak Thai politician has dismissed allegations a one-legged man seen attacking anti-Thaksin Shinawatra demonstrators at Central World Plaza on Monday is associated with the party.

Sita Divari, who is also a spokesman for the party, said the man was not a party canvasser as alleged by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

The antigovernment group claimed a one-legged man assaulted members of an anti-Thaksin group demonstrating outside the shopping plaza. It claimed the man was a campaigner for a Khlong Toei politician.

The mysterious man is said to go by the name of "Pae Khlong Toei".

Sita denied the individual was his aide and said he did not recognise the person from pictures.

The Nation

Photo shows all young men who involved in attacks on Thaksin’s opponents at Central World Shopping Complex on Monday wore brand new white sport shoes and white wristband. These confirmed earlier suspicions that the attacks was an organised efforts.

The nation

Thaksin orders legal action against "wrongdoers" in Central World event

Government Spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee said Tuesday that caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra had ordered Justice Minister Chidchai Vanasatidya to take legal action against wrongdoers related to the Central World Plaza event.

Surapong said Thaksin wanted those who committed wrongdoing to be brought to justice no matter which side they belonged to.

The spokesman said Thaksin told the Cabinet meeting that he did not want to see clashes between his supporters and protesters so he tried to avoid them by using goods elevator at the back of the shopping mall.

The spokesman said Thaksin also wanted the media to avoid playing up reports, which could further fuel more rifts in the society.

The Nation

Law society accuses police of letting Thaksin's supporters attack protesters

The president of the Law Society of Thailand Tuesday accused police of letting supporters of caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra attack the protesters without trying to stop them.

Dej-udom Krairit, the president of the Law Society of Thailand, said video footages clearly showed that police had done nothing to stop the supporters from attacking the protesters at the Central World Plaza on Monday.

Dej-udom said the law society would represent the protesters to file a lawsuit against police for allegedly conspiracy with the supporters by allowing them to beat up the protesters.

Dej-udom said police also arrested and charged protesters while failing to take legal action against the attackers and this showed that police had failed to carry out their duty fairly.

The Nation

I havn't seen any cases the other way around. Has anyone else?

Last night's Sorayuth show had footage of a lady stepping on the PM's foot 3 times "accidentally." Try doing that in most other countries without getting shot or at least dragged off by the security services. If anything, IMO the PM has shown incredible restraint (especially if we're going by local standards).

That said, I'd say it's about even, both sides starting fights and being vulgar/aggressive at these events, although it's understandable why a lot of folks around here would want to romanticize one side as thugs and the other as peaceful activists.

The lady in question says she was infact a Thaksin supporter who wanted to get closer to Thaksin to see him clearly. She said one of his security tried to stop her getting closer which resulted in her falling into the PM and accidently stepping on his foot.

Apparenty the PM called her mad. She said she wasn't mad at all, it was an accident.

you would think that even the poor farmers might think it a little unfair to beat old men, women and minors when they see the pics on tv.

I just saw it on ITV again, with new pictures that clearly show people being quite forcefully dragged away by plainclothed police. None of them lookded dangerous, one was quite an old man.

Whilst they were showing the footage the presenter was on the phone to a high ranking police officer who was very angry and said it was the protesters fault. He said they should show respect for Thakisn. He said they shouldn't shout at him in public.

It made the police look quite clearly to be under Thaksins command.

The protesters seen looked to be a harmless bunch, quite the opposite to the thugs that assaulted them

This is going to be on all the TV stations, lets hope people realise this is very wrong and not believe voice overs and propaganda from people such as this policeman.

Yeah I just saw it, people being manhandled by men dressed in black. One guy over 60 years of age bloody and bruised face, and a younger lady who looked harmless with a fair amount of blood on her neck.

Has anyone noticed that it seems all of the violence from every incident so far has come from Mr T's side. It always seems peaceful but vocal anti Thaksin demonstrators are attacked by the other side.

I havn't seen any cases the other way around. Has anyone else?

I find it incredible that a leader of a country can get away with having his own personal security assault members of the public, especially when they have broken no law.

Unbelieveable!

Hmm, well most islanders I know have gained, infact I don't know any who havn't financially and thats the truth.

But if we look at it from the angle that most did not benefit (as may well be the case, I really don't know), then I guess we are looking at a classic syndrome in Thailand that those with power, ie. the landowners have benefited at everyone elses loss.

Also I know it's not the Thai way to complain, thats often the reason so many things go unpunished or continue to be done wrongly, but maybe that's a fault of the system. There is no point having rules if they arn't enforced, and if the people feel they are unable to stand up to the powerful minority, who's fault is that?

Well I really don't think it's the fault of foriegners.

Places like Bermuda have done very well with the help of foriegn investment, the locals have also done well, and the Authorities have enforced rules that have benefited the communtiy as a whole.

I'd also like to say that I really don't think their is any mafia as mafia is by definition on the islands.

Yes there are many people that Thais call mafia, but as the word is understood by it's definition in english language, it involves organised crime.

disorganised crime maybe

I do understand that there are those who are unable to adapt well, but that goes for any other socio economic changes that take place elsewhere in the world.

There are winners and losers.

I wouldn't call the old man a loser, but if he has a problem with his land being so valuable maybe he should take it up with those who first sold or leased their land on the island ultimatley leading to the increased demand now.

Also if there are any issues regarding the local enviroment that arn't to his liking maybe he should consult with local authorites and question their inability to enforce rules and regulations, he might also wish to speak once again with the locals who chose cash over the local enviroment.

The reason nothing is done and it continues to get worse is because most locals are somehow involved and have benefitted with this growth, so you won't find many who are willing to stand up, speak and put a stop to it.

Which once again leads me back to saying that those responsible are the ones who first sold the land and also the authorities who allowed the problems to manifest.

and why not?

I know other local people who do just that. Don't look down on the locals and think it's beyond them. It's totally possible that he could take the decision himself or that a savy family member could could offer some advice with what to do with the cash.

Anyway it was only an example, there's 101 things to do with 1,000,000 US, surely he can think of something, he could ofcourse keep half of his land, sell half and set up a stud farm for fighting buffalo, i believe samui people know a thing or two about that.

My point is not that he could play money markets, but that he should surely be able to find something to do with so much cash. It's certainly not such a small amount that he won't be able to afford to live in samui, far from it, he will be one of it's weathiest inhabitants.

My argument is not with the farmer anyway, it's with the bangkok post article using him as an example.

As I said in an earlier post the article is a load of tripe!

No I havn't missed it, I said, "If he doesn't have the knowledge or the drive".

That basically takes into account the fact he is unable to use his own intelligence to use the 40+ million baht from the sale of his 40 rai.

I'm sorry but he has at least 1 million US $, and that is probobally very much on the low side, most land is valued above 1 million a rai.

Age has nothing to do with it, it doesn't matter that he's 60, or that he may know nothing else other than coconut farming, if he is not able to learn or try his hand at other things then he is the one holding himself back.

Don't try and blame his shortcomings on others.

The fact remains he has a huge sum of money to play with, what he does with it is his choise. Don't expect me to feel sorry for him if he squanders it.

Also I clearly stated he doesn't have to leave for the mainland, he can stay and make a business here with his $1,000,000+.

Failing that if he really can't trust himself with the $, why not stick it in bonds and live off 5+ % income for the rest of his life.

As much as his knowledge of coconut farming in the past paid for his living, commodity prices now dictate that if he can't adapt and change his business will fail, as with many things in life it's always great to blame others, but in the end we often only have ourselves to blame if we fail.

I think there's many many people in the world who would love to have a failing business that could be turned into cold hard cash very quickly.

yup I agree 100%, it was local wants and needs for material things that lead to samui people taking the decision to lease or sell their land. That combined with corruption of local authorities using this cash that has lead to rules being bent and broken. It is ultimatley the greed of locals themselves that has lead to this and anyone who sees otherwise is looking in the wrong place. Yes outsiders are part of the equation as demand wouldn't be there without them, but it was ultimatley the locals who took the decsion to let them in, and their collution with authorities and corrupt practises that have lead to the overdevelopement.

People from outside the island have copied their corrupt ways, some foriegners too are also involved, but it remains a fact that it is impossible for a foriegner in Thailand to make corrupt land deals without eigher,

A). Collusion with Thais

B.) Gross negligence of a Thai

"Suchart Ruengthong, 60, has to make a very tough decision _ whether or not to keep his 40-rai coconut plantation, which yields a small income. Although he wants to keep it, he said, he has no idea how long he can do so."

This Bangkok post article is a load of tripe. We're supposed to feel sorry for this farmer?

The low price of coconuts has nothing to do with tourism, and this farmer is very lucky to have the option of being able to sell his land, if he lived on one of the islands where tourism isn't an industry his land would be worthless and he still would be faced with the problem of not enough $ from his coconuts.

Shouldn't the farmer be grateful for having the option to sell????

Or am I missing something here?

With the money he gets from the sale of his land he could eigher set himself up in business in samui if he really wants to stay here, or he could move elsewhere, buy a much larger plot and plant a cash crop that has a better market price. The land in samui is crap anyway, that why they only grow coconuts, down south they grow a few other things as the soil is a bit better down there, but for the $ he gets for his land he could buy much more fertile land elsewhere.

If he doesn't have the knowledge or the drive to use the $ wisely then thats his fault, he's still extremely lucky to have the chance to sell and use the capitol for investment that could leave his family in a much betterr position than picking coconuts.

One other thing on the topic of the 'Destruction' of Samui, Originally nearly all the land on samui was owned by samui people, they then chose many years ago to sell and lease some of this land to other Thais and some foriegners who used the land to build bungalows etc. The first bungalows were owned by Samui people, then along came investors from Surrathani, Chumpon, NakhonsiThammarat, Bangkok etc. They leased or bought the land from Samui people.

This means it was ultimately samui people who took the decision to allow outsiders in, they didn't have to sell or lease their land to people from other areas, they took the choise. As more and more people saw the money that could be made they too took the decision to use their land to make income from ways other than farming.

If the samui folk had taken the decision to not to lease, and not to sell, the island would still be much the same as it was many years ago. For me probobally the worst destruction evident on the island is the mountains that have been cut away for sand. Who owns these mountains? Could it possibly be locals? Now they're worried about houses being built on hills when whole hills have been sold and cut away by locals while the authorities just stood by and watched.

I've noticed looking around the island that the areas on the hills where individuals have bought single plots and built their own house actually look very nice on the whole, it's these big developements that look so awful.

This is getting funnier and funnier, the committee chaired by Thaksin says it's ready!!!

You gotta be kidding me.........

Why is it so important to him?

I guess it must be an excuse to show the opening live on Thai TV where he can pretend he's responsible for this marvelous airport opening on time. He loves to look important on the international scene. Whether it's ready or not is of no importance to him as long as he can make it all look ok to those whose only source of news is Thai TV.

It seems strange, I have rarely seen them report on anything so frequently, not even major stories get this much attension usually.

It's all very one sided, maybe the editor or other high up people have lost some $$$ on land speculation in samui.

What is the real reason for closing petrol stations early?

Is it about control and restricting movement, does anyone know the real reasons for this ridiculous law?

Infrastructure is investment for the future, that means when you instal you make sure your spec is way over what is actually needed. I agree that the rate of growth was above that expected, but growth was still expected. It's been on the cards ever since the airport was built that big things would happen in samui.

It remains fact that had laws been inplace and enforced, particulary over the last five years, then many of the ugly buildings and that horrible condo on the hill above N. chaweng would never have been allowed.

Yes we all played a part in it (rapid growth), but it would be nice to have some guidelines or proper rules don't you think? And I mean ones that are applicable to all, not just abitarily enforced when it suits the powers that be.

It is the job of government to govern, that is why when countries have problems it is the goverment that gets the blame. This is because they have the power to bring in legislation that is supposed to benefit the electorate as a whole. There will always be trade offs, we can't have it all, but in a demorcratic society it is ultimatley up to those in charge to steer us in the right direction.

There will always be unscroupulous people who exploit natural resources for personal gain, it is the authorities job to keep them in check. Only in a utopian society would all individuals work together for the good of the island.

So yeah we are all part of the problem, but that doesn't mean the blame should land on us. There are many places in the world where tourism has happend at a sustainable pace, this is because sensible decisions were made from the start, rules enforced and those that break them are punished.

Places develope, thats the nature of globalisation, limiting the number of buildings is a ridiculous idea, why shouldn't places be allowed to grow so long as it is done at a sustainable rate.

What is needed is enforced legislation. It was needed years ago and it looks like the new building codes whilst welcome are too little too late. It makes the Thai Government look very bad from outside and it shows only too well the risks involved in investment here.

If there were clear rules and they were enforced properly, to everyone then at least people would know where they stand. New building codes are out and still the local authorities don't know how to interperate it.

As with growth in all areas of the world there will be winners and losers. Where I am from back home many locals have also been priced out of their homes due to foriegners and people from the city buying up holiday homes. Outsiders want to invest in property as the town is booming.

Some people on this forum seem to be very anti growth, the thing is that it is a good thing so long as it is done at a sustainable rate.

I'll say it again, blame lies fully and squarely on government and local authorities for just about every major issue thats giving the island a bad name.

Some of the problems include, roads, sewege, taxis, unscroupulous developers, flooding.

The major problems are caused by lack of funding or lack of law enforcement, samui desperately needs to get more money from it's taxes, until this is sorted things will not improve.

It may sound harsh, but they should force people living here to register, Thai's are supposed to by law, but most do not, they should have a crackdown and make people register, fine them if they don't. Unless people are registered or the tax system is changed, Samui will continue to be under funded. They have to choose whether to change the system, or force the Thai's to register, and if this had been sorted years ago we wouldn't be in half the mess we are in now.

It would be wise to levy taxes on the lorries that tear around the island, particulary those that belong to construction companys. It doesn't have to be much, they make huge amounts of money, and they too will gain out of it. There should also be zero tolerence to speeding lorries, this is what damages the roads, and kills people.

I think we need to stop blaming growth and the people that cause growth and start blaming those that have allowed for these problems to magnifest.

I noticed recently that Thailand is being left behind by the rest of Asia in terms of competitiveness, it doesn't surprise me, that is one of the major symptoms of corruption.

These articles are sensationlist, and i'm surprised to see something so negative in the Thai media, most of it is not based on fact eigher.

The majority of Chow Samui have done very nicely indeed, yes there are some that have not done so well, but you'll find most of these are in the south where land isn't so popular.

The majority of those that have not done well are jealous of the other Samui folk who have made lots of money where they have eigher sqandered money, or have land that bad luck for them is of little value to developers.

I wonder how many of the poor samui people if given the choise to have the old samui back, or to trade in what they have now for a few rai on chaweng beach, I wonder what they would choose.

A lot of money has been made in Samui, but it is absolutley not possible that the growth could have occured without land being developed, which in order to do, Thai's have to first take the decision to lease or sell. Foriegners cannot possibly utilise Thai soil before a Thai has given the go ahead.

So to blame foriegners is ludicrous, when huge amounts of money are being offered for worthless coconut plantations, who can blame the owners for wanting to cash in.

I belive the blame lies in Government and local Authorities, it is them who have stood by and watched the growth unchecked, they could easily have done something, but corruption stops people intervening.

Neeranam,

You know your post got me thinking,

If I could give up my present nationality, take on Thai nationality and live here with full rights as a Thai and be treated equally and seen as an equal so long as I was prepared to drop the freedom my current nationality provides, there is absolutley no way I would do it.

I think all the time about how we are treated here, ownership laws, double pricing etc,

When you think if it from an angle that if you could choose to take Thai nationality so long as you dropped your other nationality and passport, you wouldn't even consider it.

We don't have it so bad afterall..........