womble

Guess you could go the DJPat route and drag a uni student to one of those said business dinners!!     

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I think a professional and/or well educated Lady of your own age would be a more suitable candidate. I think this goes for any business or middle/high class social event the world over, partly due to the fact that an uneducated person just wouldn't be able to get involved in any serious discussions without making a fool out of themselves.

Womble - actually I feel sorry for the upper/middles class types you describe - it seems they are the ones who are uneducated and deserve lack of respect. All that aside your attitude seems to agree with them?

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My attitude doesn't agree with them, everyone deserves respect except for murderers/rapsists etc.

I'm just saying that if you are involved with high level Thai's, you have to conform to certain cultural issues. The social level of someone in Thai society is very important unlike western society in general, infact I would say it is more the girls backround and upbringing than her chosen proffesion, eigher way within a few mins they will have the poor uneducated girl down as a prostitute. You are then seen as a mug.

So no I don't agree with the way they are treated, but surely you can see why people with such different levels of education can't sit down over a formal dinner or business meeting.

Lets be honest any serious discussion is going to leave the girl and everyone else embarressed, which means loss of face for everyone, never a good thing in any business or social situation.

I have had to conform, and there's no way I could have one of these girls as a partner, as I simply couldn't make an excuse everytime we are invited somewhere together with colleagues.

I think regardless of where you are in the world it always makes more sense to partner with someone of similar education and interests as yourself, otherwise what can you talk about or do after the sex gets boring??

dosh is the prevailing factor of any business arrangement.

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Absolutely 100% right, Brit. That is the crux of it.....the world over

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True if you own your own business, but what if your working in the Banking sector or Legal sector, fancy taking her along to that business dinner with the senior partners wife as a double date?

Or how about that charity dinner ball the company you are working for is having, im sure she'll have lots to talk about with all the other wives.

Thats a load of b*llocks womble 

I married a girl who worked in a bar

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It's not &lt;deleted&gt;, I know of people who have put down the lost out on contracts or promotions due to their girlfriends, or rather the type of company they are deemed to keep.

Say what you will, but whilst it's accepted by most farangs, it is not a seen as a good thing by middle and upper class Thai's. They simply laugh behind your back, and see you as a rather sad individual. Many even feel sorry for farangs who marry such girls, as they wouldn't wish such girlfriends/wives on any of their family or friends.

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I could'nt give a toss who laughs behind my back though, Hiso thais or whoever they are free to kiss my arse.

I have a very successful business and a very happy marriage and I'm not going to labelled by so called middle or high class thias (high/ middle class in their own little world, i'm not impressed ) .

I feel sorry for those narrow minded enough to worry about all this.

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Totally agree Dave, it shouldn't matter, but in many situations is does. In tourist areas generally it will be accepted. When we're talking large corporate companys the execs will not accept it at all.

"how would they know unless you told them"

the first thing Thai's do when they meet each other is suss out where each other stand on the social scale. Actually the problem is more often because the girl is from a poor background, may act and speak uneducated, use corse language and generally just not know how to behave properly in front of people in the higher echelons of society. So they not know she is a prostitute, but if she's uneducated and from the country they will assume she is a prostitute.

Often Thai's treat these girls like shit, and will make it very clear that they have no respect for them. Some of the ways higher class Thai's treat the lower classes is simply quite shocking.

It's wrong, and a shame, but in certain areas of business you had better not let on you have an ex bar girl girlfriend as it really can have serious consequenses.

Thats a load of b*llocks womble 

I married a girl who worked in a bar

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It's not &lt;deleted&gt;, I know of people who have put down the lost out on contracts or promotions due to their girlfriends, or rather the type of company they are deemed to keep.

Say what you will, but whilst it's accepted by most farangs, it is not a seen as a good thing by middle and upper class Thai's. They simply laugh behind your back, and see you as a rather sad individual. Many even feel sorry for farangs who marry such girls, as they wouldn't wish such girlfriends/wives on any of their family or friends.

After finally finding a husband for a girl that works in a bar, once they realise he is not a 100% secure option to live by, they feel tired and give up the thought that anotherone may come, i mean...i am not trying to be unpolite, but how many guys are in for marring a hooker?

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You fall for the person not the profession, and quite a few people on this board have successful relationships with ladies you describe.

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Banging brasses is one thing, but leave it in the short time bars please. If your gonna get serious with someone a bar is not the place to find someone. Many are decent girls, and a few a not so damaged that they can't handle a normal relationship, but cummon, would you marry a whore back home? Walking around in Public with bar girls is downright embarressing.

Anyone who has been here a while and is involed in serious business will know what I mean. I mean fancy turning up to a dinner function at the Oriental Hotel with important Thai businessmen with brass in tow, (cringe). They will instantly see you for a loser and have no respect for you whatsoever.

I'm gonna get flamed for this, but it's a fact that if you move around in the affluent business circles, bar girl girlfriends just won't cut it.

I mean if you were going to a business meeting back home, would you take some tart you that you met on a dimly lit street corner, that you had become attached to and foolsihly married?

The problem with most 'resorts' in Thailand is marketing.

It seems that the people behind it think that building a few bungalows and just wait until people find them is enough.

When you market a 'resort' good returns can be made. Still it is always 'loction,location,location'. On Samui you have many rundown resorts, this is caused by a contract that finishes and no guarantee to continue the business on the same conditions. The biggest reason to stop maintaining. Why spend a lot of money when you only have one or two years left on your contract, it is almost impossible to earn it back.

I would say, never lease a 'resort' because just when you start making money, the contract is finishing. Or you have to have a really long lease like 30 years (longer is not possible whatever your laywer says!), then you would be able to make a good business plan.

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Actually it is possible to lease for longer than 30 years, 30 years is the maximum lease period allowed under Thai law, but in the lease agreement you can have a clause set so you are offered a new lease agreement at the end of the 30 years. You can even stipulate what the payments and terms of the lease are. At the end of the first 30 years, you then have to go and register the new lease at the land office, and pay the taxes. Thing is, hardly any of the Thai landlords would ever agree to an extension anyway on a 20 or 30 year lease. It is possible to get 30+30+30, almost unheard of for beach land resorts in popular places such as Chaweng. There are infact very few resorts with 30 year leases in samui, normally doesn't exceed 15 years, as short as 7 is common. Even 20 years is rare. Someone lucky enough to get a 30 year lease for beach land in Chaweng will certainly make a lot of money.

So to clarify, you can't have a lease longer than 30 years, but you can have a lease agreement that Garantees you will be offered an extension.

Wait until you are successfull Pompeynick, i mean to a point where your direct competitors notice less customers and lower income.

That is where the fun begins. Do you have your workpermit in order, that's where they strike first. Seen it happen very close hand and escaped it myself.

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This isn't specific to Thailand, goes for many places, especially developing countries. Best way is to conduct business legally, soon as you start breaking rules, people want paying off. It also seems that most people that get themselves in trouble here keep dubious company, hang around with low level scum bag mafia, or do business with locals and your asking for trouble.

As for guns there's f#cking loads in Samui, just the same as the rest of thailand. But fortunatley as Nick stated it very rarely effects farangs, it's normally thai on Thai drunken bullshit. Guns, whiskey and loss of face are a dangerous combination. I think you'll find far more killings over a drunken row, than premeditated murder of business rivals. Got no figures to back this up, just what I know from most of the shootings and the locations where they happen.

If people left their guns at home whilst out drinking, many lives could be saved.

BTW

This is a Samui section of the forum, seems the majority of people just wanna bash samui as much as possible, in my opinion it's a great island, and you have to look further than just chaweng and Lamai. There's something for most people here, you just need to head out into the nice areas, and stay away from the madness.

There's some great food to be had, several nice quiet beaches in the north, the marine park, Koh Tao, much more in the local vacinity to do than stay in the tourist traps of chaweng and Lamai.

Bo Phut fishing village is very nice, and if anyone wants to know a superb seafood restaurant, try hua Thanon Seafood, it's defo one of the best on the island, and little known except by the locals.

This class thing, and dressing in a certain way really depends where you hang around, and who you hang with. The only fasion that seems to be followed pretty closley here is the dodgy shirts and slacks worn by 'property developers'.

As I said before, hang around in crummy bars, expect to meet fools. Go to the nicer bars and restaurants, and i'm sure you can meet some nice people.

Away from the madness that is central chawneg, there are some very nice places, you just gotta find them or be shown.

Definatley agree with Pompey Nick that patters is more dangerous than samui, just read the pattaya city news, death doom and gloom a daily occurance. Here a farang death is pretty rare except in the many tragic motorbike accidents.

Never heard of farang suicide's here eigher which seem a weekly occurance in Pattaya. Not saying they havn't happened here, probobally they have, i just havn't heard of any.

is that nation wide?

any people heading to samui should try these places,

Buriras resort - samui http://www.burirasa.com

about 5 g's a night, great service, lovely rooms

Bar @ C, Amari resort, very nice palce to kick back a few drinks, great beds to sit back and relax with a few drinks next to the beach.

and to finish up Mint Bar, http://www.mintbar.com good music, and quite different to the other clubs on the street.

Spotted this in The Nation today, and I just though what a load of rubbish, did the writer have a friend who was in the comp and lost?

every one of these shows you can phone unlimited, that's the point, they make $$$ out of those who are so bothered about winning!

It's a telecom scam worldwide, nothing new. And winners of these comps have not always been the best performers, often people vote on looks etc.

I kinda know what the writer is trying to get at, but cummon, what a load of tripe, can't believe it was printed.

Maybe a slow news day?????

BURNING ISSUE: Show is a lesson in democracy

Published on October 13, 2005

Voting system on TV hit ‘Academy Fantasia’ demonstrates the dark power of money

The hoop-la has all but ended with the curtain coming down on one of Thailand’s most exciting and successful reality-TV shows, but the dark side of capitalism still lurks.

We’re talking about UBC’s “Academy Fantasia” and the fact that the fair “one phone, one vote” system was thrown out to make way for unlimited votes. The change ensured that the richer you are, the more SMS votes you can cast.

If we are going to teach our children about democracy, then Fantasia’s voting system is the good example of how democracy can be corrupted.

Something must be seriously wrong if the unlimited-vote policy does not bother or annoy voters.

Simply put, the Fantasia principle means that rich people with more money or resources can cast more votes on the outcome of the show and have more influence than less well-off voters. One very rich voter admitted that she even asked her secretary to vote for her favourite contestant when she was busy.

There is an elephant standing in the room but it does not get to be talked about. If voters can disregard the one-person, one-vote system, then it is not hard for them to accept such a thing as “vote buying”.

Voters who play along with the Fantasia system are not fighting for fairness, but letting themselves be sucked into a whirlpool that just might lead them to a black hole brought on by rampant capitalism.

Another voter admitted: “I’m starving right now because I have spent all my allowance on votes for my favourite contestant.”

The late revered monk Buddhadassa Bhikkhu warned us that if we do not realise the dark side of capitalism, the human race will be destroyed. Are we approaching destruction?

Take this testimony as an example: “I don’t feel it [voting] is a waste of money. I think it’s worthwhile if my spending can help the guy realise his dream,” another voter said.

What dream are we talking about here? If it’s to be a singer, then the contestants must be able to hold a note.

“Nine of out 12 sang out of tune, but they dream to be singers,” a music professor was quoted as saying.

In fact, the opinions of the judges, who were former singers or in the music industry, did not hold sway on the show’s outcome.

All the judges agreed that Patcha Anekaryuwat, the “V6” contestant, sang “perfectly” while “V4” contestant Suphanat Chalermchaicharoen’s fast song was riddled with flaws.

But it was Suphanat who ended up the winner, thanks solely to the voters, who were responsible for the final choice, no matter what the judges felt.

It’s another way of saying “I do not care whether you have what it takes to be a singer, I like the way you are, so with the power of money I will catapult you into stardom, regardless of your singing skills”.

It’s no surprise then that the music industry is full of commercial singers and not “quality” singers who are the real artists.

When the business of capitalism finds its way into the essence of anything, it causes destruction. It ruins principles, destroys the beauty of art and even drives you out of your mind.

As one fan who spent a whopping Bt20,000 on voting for her favourite contestant admitted, “You can call me crazy.’’

Said another voter: “I didn’t intend to dump money on voting, but when I regained consciousness, it was over 100 votes.”

Will other voters regain “consciousness”? Will they learn not to blindly follow such an unfair rule (from a democratic point of view)? And will this mania end any time soon?

Judging from the more than 100-per-cent increase in income for UBC this year compared to last year, the answer is a resounding “no”.

The mobile networks, Orange, DTAC and AIS, and cable firm UBC are reported to have made a massive Bt60 million from 10 million votes, excluding fixed-line calls and chat. UBC earned Bt10 million from each Fantasia sponsor.

The lesson we should all learn is that dreams can come true only through hard work and not through the principle that money can buy anything.

I'm not sure who can answer this best. I suppose a Thai or someone who has been here a long time.

As I understand Luangta Maha Bua is a very highly respected monk, with a large following in N.E. especially around the Udon area.

This is a TRT stronghold, surely by going after Sondhi and not also Luangta Maha Bua Thaksin could still be risking his reputation in this region.

My guess would be it depends on how vocal Luangta Maha Bua is about this. He has often been one to speak his mind, so possibly this could be an unwise move by Thaksin as just because he hasn't gone after the Monk directly, he is still attacking his words as being harmful.

I just wonder how Luangta Maha Bua followers would feel about this, I spoke to a couple of thai friends about this and they thought it a very unwise move. They also said that many Thai are aware of the problems facing media now through internet. But that kinda worried me. Internet is really the only free source of information left in Thailand, and how many have access to that?

IT just seems to me that by bringing about these defamation cases relating to Monarchy and Religion, it keeps the flames alive, it seems strange as the usual TRT tactic would be to sweep it under the carpet.

I think these defamation cases could be very unwise, they attract lots of attension not just inside Thailand, but increacingly from international media.

I've knows Nick since he's been in Samui, and a nice Chap he is. PFC bar is a nice place to kick back and have a few drinks away from the antics of all the bar girls.

It's also a good place to chat about footy, and take the piss out of Nick for supporting Pompey!

and being greeted by 'how ya doing' makes a pleasant change from hello handsome man after you've been living here 6+ years

I advise anyone to drop by PFC should they be around the regae strip, it's a nice little oasis amongst all the madness!

I guess the stereo type of a Samui resident is a beer drinking, looking for fights englishmen.

And for Pattaya a balding middle age fat man with no real chance of getting a decent looking bird back home.

Ofcourse these are generalisations, but pattaya defo has more sex pats and sex tourists.

Samui is a different crowd, but some have been very successful, and made a lot of money in a short time.

There is many envious people who would liked to have made money on Samui.

Then ofcourse there are those who wouldn't have dreamt of changing the island and making a buck.

They liked it how it used to be.

To each their own, I love many parts of Thailand, for many different reasons, but each area is very unique and has it's pro's and cons (excuse the pun)

Pattaya is pretty sickening, i've never seen so many fat, balding, overweight individuals in one town. Old men in wheel chairs being pushed around by 20 something dolly brids, that's f#cked up!

Parts of Phuket are nice, but I disagree that Samui is a poor mans Phuket. I think you'll find that in some areas land is reaching a par price wise as that on Phuket. There are now numerous 1m $ + houses on the island.

Due to it's size, and the demand for land eventually out growing supply (for the good stuff, ie. Beach and prime sea view), it will be inevitable that prices will be higher than Phuket probobally within the next 5 years.

Also Samui day to day is more expensive than Phuket, so I don't really know where you get this poor mans Phuket idea from.

Anyone can afford to live anywhere in Thailand, as everywhere is cheap compared to back him. Phuket is bigger and better developed, so more to spend your money on, but i'm sure you could spend just as much on Samui if you tried.

Pattaya isn't bangkok by the sea, the whole town is a seedy ###### whole, frequented predominantly by sex tourists. I would be ashamed to take my family there.

Yeah, I agree with those points, there are many issues that need addressing.

Roads, louts, taxi drivers, the increase in Thai teenage gangs (this is becoming a problem).

As I see it the major problems in samui are the roads, the sewage and waste desposal problems, rubbish strewn around the island. That monstrocity on the hill near Koh Matland, defo over the height limit. As far as i've seen, this is the only building that is seriously over the legal height limit.

I do hope that the more people complain things will change.

It would be nice to have samui back to how it was a few years ago, but that's not going to happen, the best we can hope for is these issues get addressed beofre they go beyond the point where they can be easily fixed.

Funny how the age gap thing always strikes a raw nerve

It wasn't actually supposed to be snide, it was a question, as a large age gap could make a two weeker assume the lass in question may indeed be a hoe.

Khun Jean answered and said the age gap was small, so yes agreed, there are definatley midless &lt;deleted&gt; out there who need to behave themselves.

I didn't mean by having an age gap people have the right to offend you. I meant it could be a reason that attracts them.

We've been here a while, and know the deal, these two weekers don't.

That was what i was trying to say, it wasn't aimed at being offensive, although reading back I can see how it could have read that way.

Anyway I spose we'll all have to agree to disagree, personally I like Samui, I also like Chiang Mai, Krabi, and areas of Phuket, not Patong though.

I like the way everywhere in Thailand is very different, makes traveling around interesting.

Some of you guys need to chill a bit though and stop Bashing everywhere.

Sure Samui has it's downsides, of which there are many, but that goes pretty much for anywhere in Thailand, no where is perfect.

If you stay away from the shity bar areas, your unlikely to get any hassle, I guess the tesco lotus incident would be pretty annoying though.

Basically stand up for yourself, and tell yobs to mind there own business, and go to one of the bars if they need company, and not harras normal girls in Public areas who have nothing to do with the profession.

I think you'll find this happens country wide, not just in Samui.

I actually find it much more annoying how Thai's treat their own people who are from N.E, than how a few pissed up louts behave. You can put the lout in his place, maybe they will see the error of their ways. Thai's won't change how they feel about Issan people as it's something that has been ingraved into them since a very young age.

Samui is more like Sicily with all the gangsters controlling the real estate, hotels, bars etc...but i still feel safe there.

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I don't see any differnece between Samui and anywhere else in Thailand other than perhaps more naive Farangs getting involved in areas they have no business getting involved in. Person shot over property or land dealing in Thailand?? Ho hum. This guy got off better than my friend, old Kamnan Seng, who resisted some agribusiness up north, and was subsequently beaten, doused with gasoline and set afire. Now that entire region, once filled with small agricultural plots, is one large corporate orchard.

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No difference to the rest of Thailand ? Have you ever spent a considerable ammount of time (considerable being more than a 2 week holiday) in any other part of Thailand ?

The order of preference for me is as follows.....

1. Phuket

2. Bangkok

3. Pattaya

4. Samui

This is only in preference based on what tend to be the top 4 most popular places visited by us farangs, otherwise to rank Samui as a 4th is an insult to the rest of Thailand !

The farang there really have to be the lowest of the lowest when it comes to Expats in Thailand, this im relating to LT expats not holiday makers. As for the owners of 20 million baht homes do they live there ? The answer is no, the majority dont !

Its nothing more than a lawless, lifeless rock in the sea !!! Bangkok (rip off) Airways, who charge 3 times the cost of a flight to Bangkok compared to the same flight from Phuket !..... Rain EVERY day ! ...... Sand all over the road causing more accidents with tourists in one month than the other places get put together..... A beach that has so much sh*t washed upon it nobody even dares to set foot on there anymore….. Fighting in Chaweng almost every night…

The list could go on, im just so glad I don’t have to live there anymore !

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Just a few generalisations there!

Do you all really think the long termers in samui are worse than Pattaya?

It really seems Samui is a place you eigher love or hate. Luckily i'm not jaded.

My friend went, he said there was about 200 people, half of which (including himself) got in free.

I've heard that was the busiest night so far, with most nights only about 100 people coming in.

I'm pretty sure this weekend will be pretty busy though.

The company who did this event must have lost some serious $.

The cheapest ticket is 1200 baht, so it doesn't take a genious to work out why it isn't working.

I'm sure Fri/Sat/Sun will be busy and the music will definatley be good.

No way they can make back their millions of $ in 3 days though.

I've never had any problems walking with my gf anywhere in Thailand.

Maybe there's a bit of an age gap between yourself and your mrs khun jean?

Doesn't Mystique throw some kick ass halloween parties? Somebody corrent me if I'm wrong. 

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It does when the police arn't hassling them. The theme parties there used to be pretty ###### good, and if police problems are sorted out, i'd say Mystique is defo the best place to go on Halloween, I went last year, it was a good night!

Rubbish, absolute rubbish.

Like everywhere in the world samui has good and bad, as the island grows expect more bad eggs to arrive.

"many of the people coming to live there had dropped to a pretty low social class level"

What does that mean, do you think that your middle class upbringing somehow makes you better than working class people?

I guess the type of people you meet depends on where you hang around. If you hang in red light bars, expect to meet a few scum bags, however samui now has it's fair share of decent bars, clubs and restaurants so you can go out without having to hang with people who are 'below you in social standing'.

Might I also add that the rise in land and house prices shows that there is a lot of money coming to samui these days, I guess where there's money there's success, those 20m baht villa's have to be owned by someone, maybe they are on the same rung of the social ladder as yourself.

Any of you guys that think samui is lawless, better go read pattaya city news.

Pattaya may be bigger, but i'm pretty sure as an average the murder rate and crime rate involving farangs is considerably higher than it is on samui.

Where else in the world would they build such a big airport, with no decent public transportation links?

This airport could become a bit of a joke when you compare it to Singapore and KL. Sure KL is a long way out, but that train is so quick and convenient.

Getting taxi's from Singapore airport is excellant too, no rip offs, great system where the taxi's pull into their own bays for loading passengers.

Makes the current taxi system at Bangkok airport look like a complete joke.

i've heard turnout has been very poor indeed, on opening night around 200 people!!!

My friend who told me didn't pay to get in as he knew some people working there, but he estimated about half of the 200 were friends of people involved. That means 100 paying customers.

If I were you i'd get my ticket at the door, with turnout like this they will defo drop the price.

I reckon the only busy time will be fri/sat/sun, when all the big acts are playing.

Not exactly the 100,000's of thousands they were expecting.

I also heard they've spend between 3-5m US $ on this 10 day event.

I'd like to know how they're gonna get that back.

It's a ###### of a lot of houses!