womble

Yes it was indeed taken from the Bangkok post, but what I find so interesting is that if you read the whole thread here, it seems like the writer of the article may possibly have read the forum, so much of what is written in it has been said in this thread, even a lot of the words are the same.

Ofcourse it may just be coinceidence, they're pretty obvious things that would happen were the party to be stopped.

Personally I don't like the parties, the music is rubbish, and I hate Sang Som, but it's soemthing everyone has to go to once. I think it's a great party for people into that kinda thing, and to stop it would have huge repercusions on Tourism possibly for a generation.

The 1am closing is starting to have that effect too now, if they had any sense, they would zone tourist towns.

It will revive the tourist industry in no time. For tourism to be successful, you need a mixture, backpackers, high enders, familys, spa get aways, a broad base is the key to success in any business, spread the risk.

Also it's young people who are less likley to be put off by violence, bird flu and natural disaster. It's these mysterious high end tourists that havn't appeard that would most likely be put off. Also any one with childeren may be put off. They should target the young party people, if they want quick tourist $. There is a current account surplus afterall. I thought Thailand need export $????

Leave these tourists alone

Newly-appointed Interior Minister Kongsak Wantana grabbed the headlines earlier this month with his plan to counter murder and mayhem in the three southernmost provinces. His idea was to win the hearts and minds of potential troublemakers by beaming them free telecasts of Premier League football. Now he wants to promote eco-tourism and launch this campaign by banning Koh Phangan's world-famous Full Moon Party, which lures thousands of young travellers to Thailand monthly in search of lunar raves, dreamy beaches and the promise of nirvana.

Many partygoers have to settle, instead, for a bad hangover, but do go on to enjoy the rest of what Thailand has to offer. Divemasters usually report their best business in the days immediately following this overhyped affair. And, of course, these youthful budget travellers frequently grow up to become affluent middle class families with children who make repeat visits a couple of decades later .By that time they have usually upgraded to five-star quality hotels and restaurants and all because Thailand captured their hearts at an early, impressionable age. If they are actively discouraged on their first visit, and leave without having enjoyed themselves, then they are unlikely ever to return. Word of mouth is a powerful advertising tool and they are likely to discourage their friends from visiting as well.

Now it is true that the minister would be most unlikely to enjoy himself at a Full Moon Party. In that, he would feel as out of place as anyone over 35, including Khon Kaen Senator Rabiabrat Pongpanit, who enraged the Koh Phangan business community earlier this year with her own attempt to ban the party after accusing it of being riddled with sex and drugs. Business-men accused her of "making a mountain out of a molehill" and the then Tourism and Sports Minister Somsak Thepsuthin went out of his way to say that only a small group of tourists were involved in immoral activities at the celebration. Mr Somsak said the authorities had done their best to regulate the event, but there might be some areas they had failed to cover. A host of VIPs then descended on the next party at Hat Rin to check on these suspect areas and found nothing to get worked up about. After all, the party has been held monthly for 25 years and if there was anything really bad about it, those who make their home on Koh Phangan should have had something to say about it by now. There are also eco-friendly projects under way to rejuvenate dead coral and improve energy and water sources and the island is well looked after by the Green Cross Conservation Group, which also effectively handles post-party clean-ups.

The Interior Minister also seems to be out of step with the rest of the government. Official policy is to encourage a resurgence of tourism after the devastation wrought by the tsunami, not suppress and ban elements of it. The whole market is already severely depressed. And, if Air Chief Marshal Kongsak is really concerned about the ecological impact of mass tourism and wishes to don the mantle of an eco-warrior, then let him take a trip to Koh Chang to see the horrors being perpetrated there in the name of "quality" tourism. It will not be long before one of our country's few remaining paradises is lost to greedy land speculators and rapacious resort developers.

Equally educational would be a ministerial trip to examine the deterioration of Jomtien Beach near Pattaya, which the Pollution Control Department last year controversially rated as the worst of the 14 Thai beaches it surveyed. It used to have far cleaner seawater than Pattaya, but sources at the department say the rot set in during the economic boom of the early '90s when high-rise condos sprang up along its beachfront to serve as weekend homes for visitors from Bangkok. This was coupled with a slew of other development schemes and a lack of pollution control. Let us hope that Interior Minister Kongsak sustains his interest in eco-tourism and puts it to good use. As for the college-age teens who come here for their Full Moon Party, let's all learn to live and let live.

Bangkok Post

The best way would be to get a local Lawyer who is conected at the land office, most commercial lawyers in Thailand have good relations with the land officers. A small payemnt to the lawyer for his services, and ofcourse a small payemnt to the land officer will get you the awnsers you are looking for.

If you can find out the land title deed number for the property, you could do it yourself with the aid of a Thai speaker. Anyone is allowed to look at the land titles, you do not need permission.

I have heard of cars being apart of dowry's, but only in very hi so, often Thai Chineese weddings.

I may be wrong, but the well publicised case a couple of years back with the 25m dowry may have included a car.

that sounds good. what about the party? are the parents responsible or..?

Top end Dowry for an educated girl from a not so well off family would be 300k Probobally more like 150k for a Thai.

Pay 100k for the party, then expect all but 200k back. That way you have spent 300k, which is more than generous, and any decent Thai family of their means they would thrilled with a 300k Dowry.

The only problem is the face issue which must be solved, a simple no about the car and dowry will wreck you marriage, her parents and her will never get over the loss of face. You will also loose massive face and respect from her, her family and the village.

Agree with the family to show the 999,999, you pay for the wedding, they give you back 700k. They get to keep 200k to put towards a car. To be honest most decent familys would eigher give the money back, or hold onto it for when you have a child or for when someone in the family is ill.

When you chat with them say to them that you cannot pay 900k, but will pay 300k in total.

Also say that you would prefer the money was saved in their bank account for something more sensible than a car. Say if you pay 900k you won't be able to provide for your future family as well as you would like to. Explain that they will be their furture grandchildren, and surely they are more important than a shiny new car.

Obviously don't lecture them, just make it clear how you feel, what you can afford and make sure you have a good plan for them to save face. Don't tell them how to do it, sow seeds in their head, present it in a way that they suggest it, or at least agree to it without being forced to.

Good Luck.

He said a total of 16.5 million tourists were expected to visit Malaysia this year bringing in receipts of RM35 billion for the country, and compared to last year, the industry recorded over 55 percent growth or a total of 15 million from 2003.

I wonder how much these overall tourist numbers are padded by Singaporean day-trippers who cross the Causeway to shop/eat/etc. in Johor Bahru?

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Quite a large amount I should imagine, although when you look at Malaysia's visa's, better infrastucture, service, later closing times, and overal better treatment and more rights, it is looking increasingly attractive. Both to tourists and expats.

her parents are expecting a 900,000 baht car as the "wedding gift" to them.

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OMG, Zint, what sort of a pickle have you got yourself into.

Firstly, the subject of "sin sod" has come up many times and you will get various views, of "stuff em" right the way through to "pay em, you cheap charlie". Although i can't see many people saying the cheap charlie one on this topic. Whatever peoples views are, about sin sod (wether it should be paid or not) and as to how much, it's quite irrelevant here. You find yourself in a "face saving" predicament, as opposed to "how much for the sin sod" predicament.

If you truly love this girl and want to marry her and don't want her to lose face with her parents and her parents not lose face to the village etc. You need to find a solution that best fits for all. For instance, they don't lose face and you don't lose 900k baht.

My view of sin sod is about "showing off" wealth etc. Now this doesn't necessarily mean the parents keeping that wealth, as in many cases, once it has been "shown" it's given back to the "happy couple". Therefore, is there any way you could reason with them, that you will show a cheque, or cash to that value on the day of the wedding but they would then have to give it back to you. However, you will try to help them purchase a car in the future. They could then gloat to all the villagers about the money and save face. A little later before people start to ask "where is the car" her parents could make up a story about how they decided to help you and your wife buy your first house instead of wasting the money on a car, gaining even more face for doing such a kind thing etc. etc.

Just a suggestion, you don't have to agree with this Zint, i'm just trying to offer some alternative thinking to your issue.

All the best anyway.

MrBoJ

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I think this is excellant advice. I would say the correct dowry for your girl would be around the 200-300k mark. 900k is too much.

You do have a face saving issue though, and if you really love each other you can settle this. You should offer 999,999 baht at the wedding, Cash.

Before had though you should make it clear that you would like 700-800k returned, the rest can go as a contribution to the car.

The excuse above about the family saving the money instead of buying the car, is a good one. The money has been shown, you have proved yourself, if the family don't agree to this, they are greedy. Showing a cool 1m will gain everyone a lot of face, and that is a great excuse for them, there are many others.

They won't stop these parties, they bring in too much $. This is a definate example of grabbing the spotlight. They know they can't even make the parties finish at 1am, cos many people will stop coming to Thailand, or miss out the Southern Gulf Coast altogether. The party is a major draw for tourists, especially Surrathani province.

It won't be closed, they need the $. If it was going to be closed it would have been done same time as the 1am closing came into force.

'On the Malaysia Welcomes The World programme (2005-2007), Wee said some RM35 million had been allocated to enhance infrastructures, increase manpower as well as providing more professional training, for the purpose of understanding the importance of tourists for the country.'

Ah yes, understanding the importance..........

1am closing, no lunch time drink with your meal, hassle by drugs police when you hate all forms of drugs and only go to respectable bars........

Thailand will drive the the tourists away.

To Malaysia and elsewhere.

M'sia Expects 24.6 Million Tourist Arrivals In 2010

PETALING JAYA, Aug 24 (Bernama) -- Malaysia expects a total of 24.6 million tourist arrivals with RM59.4 billion receipts in 2010 via Visit Malaysia Year and Malaysia Welcomes The World programme, Tourism Ministry Secretary-General Datuk Dr Victor Wee said Wednesday.

He said a total of 16.5 million tourists were expected to visit Malaysia this year bringing in receipts of RM35 billion for the country, and compared to last year, the industry recorded over 55 percent growth or a total of 15 million from 2003.

"Visit Malaysia Year, beginning this year to 2007 will be showered with events and year round promotions in order to attract 20 million tourist arrivals, he said in his keynote paper titled "Malaysia as a Shopping Destination" at the Asian Conference of Shopping Centres 2005 here.

"This programme, with an allocation of RM100 million, is organised in conjunction with the 50th Merdeka Celebration in 2007," he said.

On the Malaysia Welcomes The World programme (2005-2007), Wee said some RM35 million had been allocated to enhance infrastructures, increase manpower as well as providing more professional training, for the purpose of understanding the importance of tourists for the country.

Wee said although tourist accommodation remained important, the ministry was looking into the prospects of building shopping complexes as a major attraction.

Singapore and Hong Kong for example, allocates nearly 50 percent towards shopping given that this component is an important gear for tourism and is unlimited, he said, quoting a saying: "Shop till you drop dead".

On the 50 percent drop in Chinese tourist arrivals, Wee said: "Basically, we are looking at the figure and the reasons for the drop. The drop is not only in Malaysia. Thailand and Singapore also experience a similar drop".

He said China had opened up over 60 new tourist destinations, and due to that, domestic tourists had been drawn to those areas, and secondly, with the ongoing election in China, its citizens preferred to stay in their homeland.

"Maybe there is a slight decline in the number but this is just for temporary. Anyway, we have to work much harder to compete and to attract more tourists to our country as tourism is now considered one of the main vehicles of Malaysia's economic development and a good value destination," he said.

On the government's role, he said, the necessary support would be provided to the industry through creating awareness for frontliners and developing various strengths of different states to attract tourists.

--BERNAMA

Taxi drivers on Samui are quite simply complete robbing bastards!

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It is my opinion that the major cause of the traffic problems on Samui is the fact that there are far too many taxi's and Songtoews. Sure we need some, but not 100's. All the jams in Chaweng are caused mostly by these guys driving slowly, stopping and asking all the time even when someone isn't even looking for a taxi

If there were less taxis, they could lower the price, be busy most of the day rather than driving up and down chaweng constantly causing traffic mayhem.

If the taxi issues of Samui and Phuket are not sorted out it will have an effect on tourist arrivals. The first person you meet when you arrive is the taxi driver, if he/she treats you badly and tries to rip you off, that sticks in your mind.

The drivers have also killed/maimed many people on the Islands, and all they do is drive off as quickly as possible. They should be easy to trace, but police really don't seem bothered.

Thai Audit, anyone have any experiance with this firm? It has been recommeded by a friend.

http://thaiaudit.co.th/

Other than this firm, which accountants can users on here reccomend?

The country needs to have a real "save water" campaign.  I can't believe how wasteful people are with water.  I see dishes being washed with water running continuously, twice daily washing down of driveways--instead of sweeping.  Water left on all the time. 

Since this water all has to be pumped, cleaned and delivered, it's a real waste.  Hope people can wake up one day.

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Yes people waste water, but this is not the problem, with increased demand the infrastucture hasn't even been planed or implemented.

With the amount of rain that falls in the south, there is no excuse.

I month of water left?????

erm........

What would have happened if Phuket was as busy as it will be next year?

No water???

why TF can't they build proper infrastucture to maintain high end tourism?

It makes me laugh that the government think they can attract "high end tourists", when they can't even make sure there is enough water for them.

Remember south Thailand is tropical, and water shortages have nothing to do with low levals of rainfall, it's all about missmanagement .

Can't believe no one has added this, so i'll do it....................

Has anyone noticed the age Hirarchy thing in Thai Air? Air Hostesses?

Example economy lots of young pretty girls, business a mixture but mostly middle aged, and 1st all miserable old hags!

They better sort that out if they want me to fly anything other than economy. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying all the girls have to be young and fit (nice tho), but those old hags have a real shitty attitude, not what you want when paying $$$ for flights!

I doubt this will have a big effect on tourists, no Tsunami was reported, it was just a quake, anyone sensible will realise that the chance of being caught in a Tsunami is so small, now if the one in March, and this latest one had also caused Tsunami's that would be different, as 3 in one year would be crazy. We are likely to see large tremors for some time to come, so this is to be expected.

If any tourist change their plans, I reckon the sex tourists will head to Pattaya, and the more upscale tourists will head to Samui. I really doubt many will be put off though.

Phuket is definately getting busier 

Patong Beach was very busy yesterday as was the airport the day before.

My friends hotel has 50% occupancy - great for the low season!

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I heard the laguna's were quite busy, I think they've been offering good deals, and used decent marketing abroad to woo visitors, even if they arn't making $, at least they are staying open fully and not laying off staff.

I'm sure a few more could break even if they dropped their prices a little more, and spent more on overseas marketing.

If this gets published in the royal gazette, and the senate are unable to get enough singnitures to debate this in parliament, then there are very dark days ahead.

Quite simply expect another Coup at some time or other. With the way the economy is going, this is Meow's last chance to hold onto power, if it gets through, he will use it to stop media publishing reports which he seems may harm his popularity, whether it is connected to the south or not. Blood will be spilt before he is toppled as leader.

It's so sad that most of the uneducated public are blind, and fall for his populist policies, and it's even sader that the educated just stand by and shrug their shoulders.

Thailand has only been a Democracy since 1997, it is certainly no Democracy now, and moving quickly towards extreme right. The failing economy could be a blessing in disguise, as this will ultimatley be what leads to meow's downfall.

Phuket isn't just Patong. Check out Kata - Karon, Rawai and Kamala for a truer picture.

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Driven through them, they seemed very quiet.

I was in Patong a couple of days ago, and once again it seemed that Phuket was starting to get back to it's old self. I had lunch in patong, and saw many couples, and younger people walking around, once again mainly westerners, but I did see a few Japanese too.

I have high hopes for the coming Season starting November, and it's great to see the western tourists realising that Phuket is once again a place to consider for their holidays.

Lets hope the Asians start returning again soon. The lack of flights now is the problem, so if Thai air can arrange flights at decent rates from Asian cities, i'm sure if it's linked in with great value hotel deals, they'll have reason to return, flying via Bangkok is a hassle when so many other destinations they can fly in direct.

Catch 22, no flights, no tourists, no tourists no flights. It's time for Thai Air to run a few flights, and see if the market is there, i'm sure it is!

When looking at why this is happening in the South, I always wonder how much is due to historical antagonisms, and how much is due to the incompetent treatment of the south by this present government.

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as I see it, taksin has shown a lot of patience in this matter.

ultimately, nobody can read another persons mind. and unless they speak their piece, there is no way the differences can be resolved.

the argument that some people are using that this land in southern thailand used to be in the hands of another power doesn't hold a grain of legitimacy in this matter. ..no one person present now lived in that time period.

that would be like the british coming over to the usa 300 years after the fact to place claim on america. pure irrationality.

I side with taksin on this issue. if the terrorists down there continue their murder down there, he has no choice but to go down there, and wipe them out, period.

show them the same kind of mercy they are showing their victims. right?

let taksin do his job - protect the nation, and the thai people.

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Yeah right, and have extremeists from all over the world coming to help fight the battle, not wise.

This isn't about religion as such at the moment, it's more political, they need to be treated fairly, and given finacial assistance before it's too late. Acts of agression will only make things worse.

Instead of trying to wipe them all out, they need to find the route cause, and solve it, and it needs to be done very quickly before people head from indonesia and further afield to fight the cause.

Then it'll come to Bangkok!!!!

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first off, you shouldn't assume that they want any help from taksin. if they did, they would be willing to talk about it.

but as it is, they are keeping silent and murdering people.

most people would agree that if a peaceful arrangement could be reached, they would go that route. the tsunami contributions is an perfect example of this policy.

no, what we have here is all-out war by these terrorists. you need to understand that. and treat it accordingly.

evil is a concept that many people refuse to accept. it exists and as soon as you realize that, you will be able to react appropriately.

what we have here is evil. pure and simple. deal with it.

you don't try to negotiate with somebody when they are trying to kill you, right?

you should defend yourself.

as for the extremists coming from outside... think about it...

...............they are already here.

do you ever wonder why nobody is bothering china? I'll tell you why. china would crush anybody without hesitation. no discussions. no diplomacy. only action.

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You sound like one of the students employed by the present Government to write on forums speaking highly of their actions, and countering any critisisms.

First of all where have we seen any frame work built to negotiate with the people behind these attacks, negotioations need to be made now before it gets really out of hand.

The acts they are commiting are evil, but maybe sending large numbers of troops, who will probobally have the power for extra judicial killings is not sending the right signal. Also installing CCTV in all mosques is a very bad move, is it a place of worship, it's the same as putting in camera's in all Temples or Churches, all this shows is greater distrust from the government, and will further worsen the problems between the Budhists and the Muslims in the Deep South.

This has escalated due to gross missmanagement, only a new government can solve these problems, a hardline nationlistic government is half the problem, if not all of it.

Also Tsunami contributions are completely irrelavant, Most of the Deep South was hardly effected at all, and even the areas that were have recieved little help, just ask the poor people of Khao Lak, who voted TRT in the last election, most of them havn't seen a single baht, many are stilling living in temporary camps, meanwhile big corpoarations are trying to buy up huge plots of land, maybe they'll come in handy for Casino's one day?

Phi Phi Casino anyone???

When looking at why this is happening in the South, I always wonder how much is due to historical antagonisms, and how much is due to the incompetent treatment of the south by this present government.

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as I see it, taksin has shown a lot of patience in this matter.

ultimately, nobody can read another persons mind. and unless they speak their piece, there is no way the differences can be resolved.

the argument that some people are using that this land in southern thailand used to be in the hands of another power doesn't hold a grain of legitimacy in this matter. ..no one person present now lived in that time period.

that would be like the british coming over to the usa 300 years after the fact to place claim on america. pure irrationality.

I side with taksin on this issue. if the terrorists down there continue their murder down there, he has no choice but to go down there, and wipe them out, period.

show them the same kind of mercy they are showing their victims. right?

let taksin do his job - protect the nation, and the thai people.

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Yeah right, and have extremeists from all over the world coming to help fight the battle, not wise.

This isn't about religion as such at the moment, it's more political, they need to be treated fairly, and given finacial assistance before it's too late. Acts of agression will only make things worse.

Instead of trying to wipe them all out, they need to find the route cause, and solve it, and it needs to be done very quickly before people head from indonesia and further afield to fight the cause.

Then it'll come to Bangkok!!!!

Sad story.

Another reminder not to let your 15 year old out at 2 am.  In this case some poor judgement on the part of the parents with disasterous consequences.

Letting the drunk driver out is a disgrace.

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Thanks for your input.. She had just been 'sent home' at about 1 am and stopped for soup on the way..

Surprising as it may seem 2 is not actually that late for a 15 y/o thats on holiday..

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I'm deeply sorry for the girls father and brothers and it's another truely disgusting waste of human life and I certainly hope the other motorcycle rider gets to live out a large remainder of his life in prison.

Although I do dissagree with your statement that 2am is not actually late for a 15 y/o on holiday to be out on the town. I certainly won't be letting my daughter out when she is 15y/o until 2am anywhere not just in Thailand as I think this is completely unnecessary and an unacceptable time for someone of that age to be out and about especially given some of the types of people that are also out at that time. As parents we have to accept some responsibility for our children's whereabouts and goings on.

Also, as distressing as some of the comments are to you LivinLOS, this is a forum and as such everyone is entitled to their point of view whether we agree with it or not or even if we like it or not hence the name forum. No offence is meant with that statement LivinLOS and I'm sorry for your pain but I'm just trying to put it (the posts) into perspective.

My heartfelt condolences to the surving members of the family.

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This is a tragic loss of life, and the driver of the motorbike should be punished, however, I know personally a number of farangs who have killed Thai's whilst drunk, and the going rate is around 500k for police, family etc. This figure depends ofcouse on how powerful the family is. It is an accepted part of Thai life, and these things are almost always settled out of court between the two parties with the police acting as a go between the two parties. This goes for Thai/Thai, Thai/farang.

I myself was mown down by a taxi who was on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend, I was on a motorbike, he left me for dead, luckily someone found me, i'm now walking after 3 operations, it took me 2 years to walk again. The driver was never found, i'm pretty sure the police could have found out, but it's taxi mafia, so not worth their effort!

I'd like to comment on the Daughter being out at 1am.

When I was 15 and on holiday, I was going out at that time, my parants were cool with that, and knew I wasn't stupid.

If a responsible 15 yr old wants to be out at that time, wouldn't you rather your daughter was with a trusted nanny who hadn't been drinking, than out on her own, getting a lift back from a drunk taxi driver? I think the family were very responsible for their daughter, and quite frankly I find it offensive that anyone could suggest otherwise. Kids will be kids, and will sneak out at that age, which can lead to bigger problems, as long as they are sensible and act responsibly then whilst on holiday let them out. If they have been brought up properly, you should have no reason to worry.

What happened is a tragic accident and shows the effects of drink driving, the drunk driver must take full responsibility.

My thought and prayers are with the family.

I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but I think it's an interesting read. What I do find amusing is how some people get so wound up by what he writes.

He definatley has become a bit jaded.

But.....

Obviously some of the truths are too close to home for some to handle. Some of the stuff he says about Bar girls is spot on, and it seems that most of those who get wound up by him are those heavily involved with the bar scene or a prostitute.

Yeah stick came over and goosed whores, but like most of us he realised he was being taken for a &lt;deleted&gt;. Some of you loosers have been here twice as long as him and still havn't worked out that you shag hookers (using Johnny's) pay them and leave. Not parade around the streets as if proud of your prostitute girlfriend.

I'm gonna get abuse for this, but anyone who has a relationship with a prostitute must be eigher, A - Mad, B - Sad, C - Desperate.

It may take a year or two for some to realise this, and thats cos of the culture differences, but after a year or two anyone with a whore girlfriend is an idiot in my eyes.

The point here is not that the law was broken. She broke the law, and should be punished, it is her responsibility to check up on legalitys.

They have absolutley no right to complain about this, they broke the law, and should accept whatever punishment the law of the land deals out.

However, it does sound as if they were treated badly, whenever a forigner is arrested, it should be routine that a tourist policeman and an interpreter are present before any signing of decuments etc.

She broke the law, she should accept that.

This does look very bad on Thailand and it's police force, and shows what contempt they hold for us forigners.

Singaporeans will be put off by this if the word gets out, not because she broke the law, but because of the way she was treated.