Spartakos

Let's assume that both sides are equally bad,

And I'd still support the protesters because removal of Dr. T would decentralise the power Which is a good thing in my view.

The story might seem like a sci fi to most of the foreigners , but considering the history of violence involved in thai political wars recently it is not an unreasonable suggestion. Mercenary insurgents used worldwide and is nothing new.they are much more convenient then local grown terrorists. Have any of the men in black been captured for questioning? I say the navy commander's theory is as good explanation of the people involved in recent violence as any other.

Step by step most of his policies were a failure. Education did not improve an inch and during last 20 years, how do you call that. Implementing democrat designed 30 baht program and claiming it his own was partially effective but in 15 years it have outlived itself but no other alternative is in sight. Most of his policies are nothing but vote buying campaigns. Many of them disastrous rice scheme, war on drugs, pacifying south, corruption. Bottom line for me is that the man is an opportunist that was averagely effective as PM 15 years ago but is a dangerous liability for modern day thais.

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The rift I would say is about the same as it always was. Massive. Both sides have their own agenda here and their priorities are to theirselves.

There seems to be a self perpetuating myth among many that Thailand will change for the good if they can get rid of Thaksiin... it won't As there is not much diversity in the western media here (things changing now) many who don't have access to news, just swallow hook line and sinker a few titbits they pick up.

They then talk loudly in bars about them and come to believe firmly in them. I'll say thaksin was corrupt... but he was corrupt AND did good for the country and many of its people. The other side have only their own interests at heart and are fighting behind the scenes anyway.

What changed for me is I have children at school here and I don't want them to be living in the mire of corruption that existed back when I arrived. Was barely reported then but bodies turned up regularly and activists and journalists learned never to questin what was going on.

The change now is with the internet. This information i out there and professional journalists feel they should report both sides (the article by cod yesterday was fantastic.. .and also the part from the yellow shirt guy equally as good) and many can see that all was not well in Thailand before Thaksin.

Lot of the social media stuff is misleading for many reasons and you have to try to understand why. It's a PR war and if they make enough noise on either side about a topic (the navy seals and Ko-Tee mate in the frame for the bombings) they are spread around to drag leaders away from their topic of the day, making them respond to more and more rumours etc. Both sides do it.

At least we have some balance on here now and Leaders from all sides, INC Army, navy and eventually some backers when they are outed have their feet held to the flames more than they used to. This is bringing change and has worked on the Army as they are saying NO COUP so often now that they will probably start believing it themselves soon.

Is there anyone in this country who is still happy with the ptp? Seems the only reason they still get support is because " but the democrats are the evil" argument and there is no other choice for the rural poor. Bad PR by democrat party. Hope there will be a third better choice soon.

Those pesky southeners, elites, bangkok middle class, students, business owners, scholars, work unions, yellow shirts, rubber farmers, celebs, who do they think they are to believe that they can protest against this honest goverment chosen by the rice farmers that have not been paid lately. Can you belive the nerve of those people?

It's not all of them, just the few who have no independent thought.

They are dwindling and losing money fast. Enough people are getting annoyed... now they are losing money and there will be repercussions.

The more money people lose the angrier they will become.

Protest yes, but this is stupidity writ large and it's getting worse because it is not working. Looks like the Army, Police, the majority of the country and the Gov. are waiting it out. Blink Suthep.... and you are gone, because one day, your rash hatred and foul manner will let you down.. The longer it goes on, the more people despise you...

That day will come

Funny how I thought you were talking about the rice farmers loosing money fast and running out of patience with this goverment.

But yes, Suthep- bad, Abhisit- bad bad, those nasty protesters who ain't got no independent thought, how dare they?!

Don't they know how all this protesting activities and all those tricky investigations make our beloved leader from afar feel?

Those pesky southeners, elites, bangkok middle class, students, business owners, scholars, work unions, yellow shirts, rubber farmers, celebs, who do they think they are to believe that they can protest against this honest goverment chosen by the rice farmers that have not been paid lately. Can you belive the nerve of those people?

Thailand endures a complex relationship with corruption characterised by weak governance, opaque webs of political patronage and an expectation of under-the-table payments to get things done.

Demonstrators trying to rid the country of Thaksin's influence by ousting the government led by his sister Yingluck Shinawatra believe he has broken the kingdom's tacit contract with graft, says political commentator Voranai Vanijaka of the Bangkok Post.

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP.

"The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here."

And herein lies the entire problem facing Thailand.

It will be a problem never resolved when it's the level of corruption that is tolerated, not that there is corruption. Who determines when that level is OK, or OTT? Who should be the beneficiaries of the corruption? Everyone, or just those who feel entitled?

Like everything here, there is supposedly a rule book, or laws, but they are subject to interpretation, and that interpretation depends on who you are, or how much you pay, (to ignore them). It's cultural, it's feudal. Unfortunately the country cannot progress unless it is addressed, which is very sad.

Thailand is a fantastic place, but consider how much more fantastic it could be.

There will always be corruption in any country, but start with the concept that it is illegal; start with observance and enforcement of the rule of law, for everyone, equally.

"I have a dream..."

Corruption is endemic and institutionalized here, with or without Thaksin's involvement, and backed by some very big players. Thaksin and his cronies are corrupt, but consider this:

Do people really believe that Thaksin is solely responsible for all the corruption that Thailand suffers and endures, or that his brand of corruption is an worse or any different than that of the other leeches who have been bleeding the people of Thailand dry for so long?

Do people really believe that the Thaksin's influence is wholly responsible for the day to day corruption perpetrated by the back street gangsters and mafia bosses where I live.

Where I work, the local cops get paid of by the bloke who sells copy DVD's outside 7/11, the street vendors pay off the market inspectors and the local money lender operates in plain view. Who's responsible for that? Thaksin?

People have short memories. The past and recent history of Thailand's corruption - political or otherwise - is littered with cases: The Klong Dam project, the Hopewell project and the Klong Chan Credit Union scandals to name but a few.

Politics in Thailand is a business opportunity, plain and simple.

When the Thaksin influence finally dissipates, you can bet with 100% certainty that there will be others - the usual suspects? - who will pick up the pieces and carry on as they have always done.

And if Thaksin ifluence does not fade away soon I ( and most of the protesters) am afraid that there will not be other person in power for a looong time. You got to admit that his side is not even a side, or party, or clan ,or family it literally is 1 man who wields the power. Can continue this line of thoughts and suggest an even more lucrative position than president that he aims for. That is outright scary prospect, forget the corruption.

Been in thailand through yellow, red and antigoverment protests. The latest is the most peaceful and sincere I have seen. Red was the worst one, seemed like a gang of drunk thugs. Sadly lives have been lost for 1 man's dictatorial ambitions.

Not sure if you are referring to Thaksin, Suthep or anyone in particular.

Suthep will never have enough leverage to pull something like that off. Dr. T on the other hand is a very serious contender.

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Suthep and the Dems strategy is so obvious! It's not about being a dictator or wrangling for power nor is this even about Abhisit!

As some would suggest on this forum.

This is about exposing the faults of PTP (Pardon Thaskin party) It's about bringing the Shin a whats? down for good.

The Dems know deep down that nothing can change until these people are brought under control.

I think it is a great strategy. Risky? yes but I believe the momentum from the anti government will prevail and after the courts and independent

groups are finished this government will be finished. The protester's will go home. Suthep will go to jail (for awhile) Abhisit and the rest of Dems

will start getting their act together and start new fresh elections with oversight and a new charter. One that is fair for all and that will actually

benefit the Thai people.

The Shinawatras are not the root cause of this conflict. This conflict over control of Thailand and its "system" has been going on since 1932 look before Mr. Thaksin was standing up to relieve himself.

Suthep and the Dems strategy is so obvious! It's not about being a dictator or wrangling for power nor is this even about Abhisit!

As some would suggest on this forum.

This is about exposing the faults of PTP (Pardon Thaskin party) It's about bringing the Shin a whats? down for good.

The Dems know deep down that nothing can change until these people are brought under control.

I think it is a great strategy. Risky? yes but I believe the momentum from the anti government will prevail and after the courts and independent

groups are finished this government will be finished. The protester's will go home. Suthep will go to jail (for awhile) Abhisit and the rest of Dems

will start getting their act together and start new fresh elections with oversight and a new charter. One that is fair for all and that will actually

benefit the Thai people.

Found a few thai retailers, hope it helps

http://www.baanray.com/1932534/534543/Kneeling-Chair-.html

http://www.thailand-sell.com/htm-thailand-77-19193.htm

If PT win (which of course they will) then they should be the ones running the country, no question. The problem that's happened, the Government abused its position in a huge way. So reforms are needed before an election can come about again.

What exactly are those reforms needed? Compared to decades old nepotism under the yellow rule for the Bangkok elite, the reds have not abused their position anywhere near of their level! The same group of Bangkok elite families are still running the show more or less.

They only bitch about not being the top dog anymore and about the rural Thais having actually power to oppose them! It is so outrageous...!

Sure it's protesters bombing and shooting themselfs, I mean who else could it possibly be.

You took the words right out of my mouth, as the saying goes....One only needs to ask the question, "Who does this mayhem serve?"...It strongly and singularly serves the interests of the coup-mongers, in whatever incarnation...be it out on the street, or in the support, encouragement and incitement they receive from behind themselves...They need violence of this nature, And they need it now...They have a limited time-frame within which to escalate things......If the election of Feb. 2nd. is delayed, cancelled or fiddled with in any form, than all bets are off....Than the above point-of-view would be invalid, as then 'mayhem' will emanate from the other side of the political divide....As long as the coup-mongers spin-their anti-democratic wheels, those who support the Feb. 2nd. election, and defend the millions who chose this Govt. will essentially watch from the sidelines pending the exercise of their electoral rights on Feb. 2nd....After that the focus of the coup-mongers will change...Then they need to ensure that the election does not bring back any sense of political normality. It is imperative for them to create a situation of ungovernability......Being unelectable is not fun.

Who would want such a terrible future for this country, who needs those pesky reforms? Surely only the paid-fascist people on the streets. I pity the ungreatful fools that can't appreciate all the political normality and economical prosperity that you kindly mentioned above.

I am starting to understand why Yaowapa Wongsawat (the ugly duckling of the Shinawatra clan) is being so quite. One can only assume after the usual and predictable corruption cases against Yingluck and her MP's that will no doubt prove them guilty, in will come Yaowapa, innocent….Well after her 5 year political ban. Those Shinawatra's just can't keep out of trouble. I can imagine after Yinglucks 5 year ban Yaowapa will be proven corrupt and in will walk Yingluck again. Couple of years later another ban for her and Thaksin's son will be the next PM.

So in summary, Thaksin is a convicted fugitive on the run overseas. His sister is facing corruption charges. His other sister was banned for 5 years from politics. The other sisters husband found guilty of neglecting his duties after….surprise surprise, suspending a corruption investigation into two senior officials while he was a permanent secretary at the justice ministry. That corruption word seems to come up in every Shinawatra case.

Apparently though the Shinawatra's are clean as a PRDC whistle though and have never done anything wrong. It is a bigger conspiracy than the fake moon landing.

And people still think an elected senate is more democratic. All it will do increase the amount of corruption cases against The Shinawatra's drivers, maids, secretaries, doormen, butlers, shoe shiners etc etc etc.

They found the weakness in Thai democracy and are abusing it. They don't even care if they stay in power long enough to abuse it. There is another Shinawatra that will step up to replace the last one.

Elections. Great. Focus on post ballot box muppets. Elections only allow a govt to prove it is democratic. PTP have failed.

"It is a bigger conspiracy than the fake moon landing..."

The earth is flat! You're right. There was no ciorruption in this pure and fair land before a Shinawatra was born.

Sieg Heil!!

But, but, but Suthep and Abhisit... well they are bad too.., very bad.., so people should not be angry at shinawat clan, actually close all the cases against them and go home, yes good idea, isn't it?

After 2.5 years refusing to talk or listen to anyone except a criminal from afar this lady now is now upset when people ignore her.

Some are to quick to judge and to quick to type. The EC is bound by the constitution and the Monarch of this great kingdom to set the election process started and now they are being derelict in their duty full stop. Spartakos, I ask thee is not Suthep a former criminal and acting illegally at present? Is not Abihsit indicted on murder charges and due to face the Court amongst other charges? I think both sides need a hell of a lot reform before anything should be none, but I'm not in dreamland either, farewell. Cricketnut

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EC will do it's duty and stage an election they have no choice about it, however the are not bound by any law to attend useless meetings. Meeting's sole purpose was to create an illusion of mutual agreement of election by EC and other parties, so PTP would not look as the only one pushing for this useless election on feb 2nd. They stated just before the meeting that they will go ahead with election anyway so why bother with the meeting?

Is Suthep a sentenced criminal? I think not, there is arrest warrant on him but that does not make him convicted criminal.

Same goes for Abhisit.

Reform before an election is actually what protesters want so you are right on that one.

But your avoiding the question, has Suthep or Abhisit engaged in and or been charged by the authorities? Yes..... End of story. No use bringing up Thaksin either, I try as painful as that maybe to live in the present.

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Yes they have and i have admited that Suthep have an arrest warrant on him too, pls read carefully. But what does that suppose to mean? Are they guilty? Not until sentenced by a court. What is your point?

After 2.5 years refusing to talk or listen to anyone except a criminal from afar this lady now is now upset when people ignore her.

Some are to quick to judge and to quick to type. The EC is bound by the constitution and the Monarch of this great kingdom to set the election process started and now they are being derelict in their duty full stop. Spartakos, I ask thee is not Suthep a former criminal and acting illegally at present? Is not Abihsit indicted on murder charges and due to face the Court amongst other charges? I think both sides need a hell of a lot reform before anything should be none, but I'm not in dreamland either, farewell. Cricketnut

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

EC will do it's duty and stage an election they have no choice about it, however the are not bound by any law to attend useless meetings. Meeting's sole purpose was to create an illusion of mutual agreement of election by EC and other parties, so PTP would not look as the only one pushing for this useless election on feb 2nd. They stated just before the meeting that they will go ahead with election anyway so why bother with the meeting?

Is Suthep a sentenced criminal? I think not, there is arrest warrant on him but that does not make him convicted criminal.

Same goes for Abhisit.

Reform before an election is actually what protesters want so you are right on that one.

After 2.5 years refusing to talk or listen to anyone except a criminal from afar this lady now is now upset when people ignore her.

After 2.5 years, Just when did she publicly say she will not listen to another political party?

After 2.5 year how many times this faux PM debated, participated, gave speech in a parliament? How many times did she answered questions of free media or opposition? What was her verbal input in parliament debate on key issues of rice scam, water managment, 2.2 gazillion loan, amnesty bill, brothers passport? How many election debates did she do last time and how many planned for new election? I'm sorry, i know it's a tough job to defend PTP and you doing your best but....

But.. But.. He was elected by majority. I don't get it. Doesn't that means that anyone elected into the government have green pass to do whatever they wish? After all the democracy is all about election not the actual part of governing for the benefit of the people. Or did I get it wrong again?

No worries farmers today you get paid by your beloved government. I have not an ounce of doubt about it.

Evil Taksin won't let the lady quit and those pesky protesters occupied most of the best shopping places. There is no fun being prime minister anymore