driedmango

Almost all years, early April is fine. Also, even when it's quite bad, many people don't even notice it.

There is actually a good chance that Bangkok will have worse air around that time, yet you never hear people about that. This forum is very vocal on the issue.

I'd make the decision closer to that time, and then decide if you want to go North or South.

Personally I'm planning to be back in Chiang Mai around that same time.

ya lots of tourists don't know there is a mountain there and those face masks are just nurses who forgot to take off their uniforms

After my previous posts I decided to look into the travel distances of PM10 & PM2.5. These are the facts.

Relatively large particles (PM10) generally remain suspended in the air

for short periods of time (minutes or hours). PM10 particles can travel

as little as a hundred yards or as much as 30 miles. In contrast,

because smaller particles are lighter, PM2.5 can remain suspended in the

air for days or weeks, and can travel hundreds of miles before settling

out.

Source

There is more than size that is different in these types of particles.

Each type of particle has different material compositions and can come

from different places. The smaller the particle the longer it can remain

suspended in the air before settling. PM2.5 can stay in the air from

hours to weeks and travel very long distances because it is smaller and

lighter. PM10 can stay in the air for minutes to hours and can travel

shorter distances from hundreds of yards to many mile because it is

larger and heavier.

Source

In other words, it is possible for the worse particles PM<2.5 to reach us from China.

yes there has been tests in California to prove air pollution takes 4 days from china to Seattle, much of the haze in Vancouver comes from japan and china, not to say pollution from there doesnt go other places LA to mexico.. just the currents.. there is no sample if the earths surface that is pollution free.. the world us pretty small, you can drive around a quarter of it in 3 days

well first of all you just shifted "rationalization" to "realization" using semanticsYour realization of it being "complex" is just another version of "there is nothing we can really do about it"The most troubling problem with the blind spots of Thai society is that most citizens/voters etc don't even know there is a problem.The first step of solving a problem is the realization that it is a problem.Believe me I don't want or think Thai society should or even could change.The most disturbing theme of my view is that Thai society is incapable of positive change and refinement.I guess that makes me a racist or elitest looking down on the low potential primitive masses.But I do not think a problem being complex means theywill never find an alternative or solution.That the Thai's at this time do not have a viable solutiondoes not automatically suggest there never will be one.How many decades had the West been warned about the ozone & theirgas guzzling SUV driving ways? Out of sight out of mind? Did they just Stop That?No it took decades & none can say it is really under control still can they?I think you will find USA still in #2 position behind China as the worst offender of Co2 emissionsDoes that make them "incapable of positive change and refinement" as you say of the Thai's?I think most Thai's do know there is a problem.I do not think Thai society is incapable of positive change and refinement.I imagine I would not live here if I held them in such low esteem.Is there a problem? Yes 101% I agreeCan they just Stop That as a solution? No for many reasons mentioned.Do you have any viable solutions or ideas?

yes people complain about the west pollution where you been ? Thailand is completely about to make positive changes, more so because they are a resorseful and youthful country not stuck in their habits like the aging west, where ignorance rules.

My hosts, the people of Thailand, are well within their rights to tell me to get on my bike and go fix my own country.all sorts of Thais in my country..its their country to.. the earth and air is for all.Yes of course Mother Earth type catch phrases sound nice but,What LemanRus is describing is reality.The Thais you say that are in "your" country would have no more pullat telling "your" country to stop doing something that they surelydo which is not considered healthy.The western countries have been doing harm in many ways for decades. They know it yet it continueswhy? Because sometimes an immediate alternative does not exist.Sad but true.Yes we all dislike what we see in the air.

yes they do they work to change what ever they want and we applaud that freedom. Nobody owns this planet we all live a blink of an eye an the idea someone owns the earth is dellusions. If I am standing on a place I am there, I follow the laws out of respect but the birds or whales they migrate the world knowing it is one unit.

The previous posts are a tad nasty!

Yes, "spot" measurements are restricted to the location of the devices. No surprise there. It does indeed depend on where you are! If you are choking on the diesel fumes of an old songtao at a traffic signal, you indeed have an experience very different from someone enjoying the view on the summit of Doi Inthanon. Both locations are in the province of Chiang Mai.

There are only two regularly reporting monitoring locations in the province, the one at "City Hall" and the one at Yuparaj School. The third is at Phuping Palace, the royal upcountry "summer residence." The readings there, at a relatively high elevation, are generally quite pleasant compared with the readings on the plain below. Surprise! Surprise! --- given the elevation and the geomorphic nature (We are in a basin where shitty air gets trapped without adequate clearing winds or rain.) I have heard that Phuping is a mobile unit that sometimes goes to other locations, but I am not certain about that.

One of the silliest generalizations that I have ever heard about the validity of pollution readings for Chiang Mai came last year from our then TV CM resident stickler for rigorous scientific and statistical methods who stated his belief [italics, mine] that two regularly reported monitoring stations located in or around Chiang Mai City were adequate in generalizing about an entire large province! I found that very, very funny, especially given the sniffy source. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the shit covers the whole basin. You don't have to place monitoring stations every 500M, as they do in Beijing to see what is going on!! (I do, however, agree with him!!)

So, don't worry about the specific comparative placement of the only two monitoring stations in the whole province! If anything, over time, you will discover, looking at archival data, that the Yuparaj readings tend higher than the other station's readings. But the difference really doesn't add up to the length of an ant's pecker.

Anyway, for quite a few years now, this TV CM outlet has allowed all of us to vent!! It is a seasonal privilege! So vent, but, also, why not do a bit more? In little ways, even if it seems you are pissing into the wind. The situation here and now is really no different historically from the vaunted countries with developed agricultural economies from which most of us appear to hail.

it is though the population on the planet has double from 1990 pollution has x10 from the old days before that.

I totally agree with you, and the way few men have replied to your post is a good exemple.

Farang here are used to treat thai women with no respect, since thai women are used to it, not being respected by thai men at the first place, so after few months, years, they treat all women the same way.

Nobody ask them to make any effort in Thailand, so why bother ?!...I have talked about that with expats male and female, and we both know it is true. Just as an exemple, last time I went shopping I had to carry heavy boxes, thai and white men around, you think someone would have helped me ?! of course no....another time, I was queuing to get a drink, and behind were sitting around 5 young/old white men...talking about their prostitutes, prices, making fun of them etc...few women were around, they didnt give a shit, disguting..i could go on and on....so yes, sexism is all around...I still love thailand though

men should help you with your boxes ? Why no women help me with my boxes in my life ? Women cops could beat me up if they wanted to, I am not super man, and many Thai women are respected.. the pm is female

My hosts, the people of Thailand, are well within their rights to tell me to get on my bike and go fix my own country.

all sorts of Thais in my country..its their country to.. the earth and air is for all.

Stayed out past Doi Saket last night near the Hot Springs, and watched the whole mountainside burn - ribbons of yellow and orange fire, obviously deliberately set. The air is filthy this morning, and I'll bet the people who lit the first match quickly drove miles away from the poisonous acrid pollution they have created. We know this is carcinogenic, we know this is madness, we know it is rank foolishness, we know it is irresponsible, lawless behaviour, and it reflects miserably on the authorities - who, year after year, seem either impotent or unwilling to stop it. The very sad thing is that if this was Singapore, the problem would be solved within a week or less, with the offenders jailed - or even caned for putting people's health in danger. Truth is, that flat, boring and unremarkable little island - much of it reclaimed from the sea, and with no natural attractions or resources, no mountains, forests or beautiful beaches, no ancient monuments, or rich culture (and no corruption) - is paradoxically so far ahead of Thailand, in so many ways. What a pity we cannot at least try to follow their example.Objection on a few different fronts. Never in a million years would I want to move from Thailand to Singapore. If I thought life was better there, I'd go. I think the opposite is very much the case.Second, Singapore gets hazed from Indonesia - seasonal burning there pretty similar to what's happening here. You know how they solve this problem? They don't. Because they can't.The locals that set these fires - they stick with the fires to do whatever they wanted to do setting the fires in the first place. They're not running away - they're unaware that the smoke is bad. Mind you these are the same locals I see tending the fields in Pai, where they spray vast quantities of insecticides on their fields with no protection on.... more educated local Thais told them it's bad, their response is everybody dies some day. I imagine that's the way they feel about the smoke, too.Whether or not the forests would have large scale fires if it wasn't for seasonal burning is impossible to know. I can speculate they probably would as the north gets bone-dry in the summer. Pai valley has a desert climate in March! You are free to speculate something else though. Pointless to discuss the what if IMO.

exactly right, these are not controlled burns that prevent forest fires, this is all sorts of crap.. a healthy forest does have fires that take out weak members, the problem in the USA is they cut the healty forest and what grew back wasn't natural... just like where I live even then you don't get this mass smokey season, its apples and oranges. As more and more people grow on this earth we can't act this way.

This smoke us deadly. If you can afford to leave for a while do so, complain about it to your embassy. They really need health hazard warning fir this.

It's a hot topic on this forum. Is Nazism and Fascism just a fashion trend for "uneducated" Thai people who don't know any better? I think Hitler would have said that the more you lie, the more people believe you (or was that his propaganda minister whatever his name was, don't care but he's relevant to the topic). Now, since I lived in Germany from 1991-1995, and then returned for one year in 2010, I can say that their form of raising the Nazi salute via the media, but obscured so it's not overt, is that they had endless "documentaries" about Hitler on the 3 very boring tv channels, (before cable tv hit Europe big time). Day after day, the ominous Wagneresque music with images of Nazis parading and Hitler saluting them, those images to "never forget" (nie vergessen) really meant, "don't put that hand down, just keep it up, just hide your Swastika" and that is what they did. Then in 2010, when much of the US military had left Germany, the Swastikas are slowly coming out. The double meanings and hidden agendas are not cute, don't imply that people are stupid, the Thai people are definitely not stupid and they know what they are doing. They are empowering their ex-pat financial base and swearing allegiance to Nazis, and they are brainwashing and educating their children to follow so they will receive the financial rewards of more investments more people with a lot o f money moving here. It's very calculated and not some little incident.

oh you wish.. its a fashion joke, Hitler is kind of dare I say funny to them.. a little guy that never smiles... the rest is history

Beat me to it

Great minds...

Both of you are dead right.

But somehow it is amusing to see the massive and stupid overreactions on display here.

It's like a "shock, gasp, horror " reaction to Benny Hill..............

I asked Samran a few posts back who was the most evil man born and didn't get a response. I think you young people don't really know what evil is because you were protected by a generation who gave their lives so you would not have to know evil to the same extent as Hitler perpetrated of the world. And I guess it worked because you don't have a clue about real evil and the horrors of WWII and the Nazi's that are being glorified by having kids march down the street in Nazi uniforms.

Its not glorification. Its black humour. Its like why people dress up like the devil for parties.

That would be the case if the Thais knew who Hitler was but they don't. It's not humor it is stupidity.

they do know who Hitler is, it is you who is ignorant to that, they think its funny to play stupid with farang, they might think your are stupid too.

its beyond words . . and this is a school event

can you imagine that all these happened in a public school event? unbelievable

In Germany and Austria, unbelievable and some other European countries to. In Thailand SEA countries, NO, NO problem, they do not know enough about it. To far, 10.000 km away! Understandable

Oh I think there a still a few in Germany. Going to their graves to do whatever ever they do.

The funny ones are those Russian Nazis.

You are right, still some, maybe a lot admirers of Hitlers time and his thoughts in Germany, Austria, also in second and third generation!

But I was meaning, Officially such representation of symbols same shown on the photo(s) would no be tolerated by the authorities in the German speaking countries and there are harsh and strict laws against any presentation and glorification !

that's why they do it, they think its funny how offended people are... just like British punk music or whatever or the soup Nazi on Seinfeld... Nazis arrogant evil and stupid thought s is as funny.. I like to tell deadlocked hippy Nazi s of today funny things to shock them like global warming is a scam even though I know it isn't it is funny how worked up people get..its called black humour and it is funny sometimes. I think the Nazi thing with Thais is funny.. consider the irony.. they know Hitler was a stupid white suprmemisist, thy know what he did, and they think it is funny to piss you off

TommoPhysicist, on 14 Mar 2013 - 20:12, said:nikster, on 14 Mar 2013 - 19:52, said:

IMO a lot of the burning can be avoided. I don't want to tell farmers how to farm but one can use the waste from the previous crop as fertilizer for the new crop, rather than burning it - my neighbor in Pai did that, worked for him!

And the forests - there's no reason to burn them at all. Ok so they want to grow mushrooms, hunt the (last remaining?) animals, etc - there are reasons, but they're not very good ones. I think the forest fires could be stopped tomorrow with relatively small financial incentives for hill tribes living there - call 'em guardians of the forests and pay them for all area that wasn't burned. They'd get rewarded if they either put out fires or don't set them in the first place that way.

It'll probably take a generation or two.

The forest burning is to stop forest fires.

When you burn light growth the fire doesn't last long enough or get hot enough to burn the trees.

When you leave it a couple of years, an accidental fire has fuel to get hot enough and take all the trees with it.http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111111224509AA6NpSzI am aware that that's one of the effects of the seasonal burning. And indeed, if it were to stop, we'd have to contend with large, village-threatening fires every couple of years, the same as you see in the USA.

However, that's not the reason the locals do it. I've heard many reasons, but this one was never mentioned.

that is false. Tropical forests don't burn the same.

What are you talking about? The concept of a spherical Earth dates back to ancient Greek philosophy from around the 6th century BC. As a sailor from the time of my childhood I can tell you that any sailor knew the earth was round by the age of 7. You sail into port and look at a mountain getting taller. Come on guys pick on a better myth.

Has anything I said precluded the ancient Greeks knowing the earth to be a sphere - erm no....

Feel free to go off on one of your disconnected rambles but please at least try to teather one end in something that I've said, not something you've assumed I've said.

You wrote, "The Roman baths at Bath in the UK have a stone carving of the earth - the earth is depicted as a globe. Somewhere between the carving of that globe and the late middle ages the theory of flat earth crept in."

Erm.... you are aware that the Roman empire reached Britania sometime after they conquered the Greeks aren't you?!

The logic, to spell it out for you is - The Greeks knew about the earth being a sphere, .... then came they romans, they knew about the earth being a sphere (probably from the Greeks) and then sometime between the carving of the sphere that is at the roman ruins at Bath the idea came about that the earth was flat.

So yes, I know what I'm talking about.

Have some fish oil, it might help.

almost all humans knew the earth was round. Just some idiots trying to convince others the earth wasn't round or they would think there was other life out there.

so why were you speeding in the first place? sounds like you should've been fined, and that camera would've incriminated you, knowning this you still decide to act like a rude a**hole, nice job.

that's what I was thinking, another person that can't go the speed limit and cries when they get a ticket... and somehow thinks their a hero for weaseling out of it.

I don't think children are Christian, their parents are and they are told to be but once they get to be an adult and decide their are that or not is a different story.

That being said, tell your friend not to worry about that and instead concentrate on finding a decent school for the kid where he isn't surrounded by a gated community of spoiled brats.

I wonder of the infected insects feel the fever also, poor little buggers are just trying to feed their family.

I am sure Thais aren't as stupid as you suggest. .. that sounds like some Nazi doctrine.

Beat me to it

Great minds...

Both of you are dead right.

But somehow it is amusing to see the massive and stupid overreactions on display here.

It's like a "shock, gasp, horror " reaction to Benny Hill..............

I asked Samran a few posts back who was the most evil man born and didn't get a response. I think you young people don't really know what evil is because you were protected by a generation who gave their lives so you would not have to know evil to the same extent as Hitler perpetrated of the world. And I guess it worked because you don't have a clue about real evil and the horrors of WWII and the Nazi's that are being glorified by having kids march down the street in Nazi uniforms.

Its not glorification. Its black humour. Its like why people dress up like the devil for parties.

I really think they like to piss off the farang for fun. I also think that they are poking at the seriously taboo subject and find the whole little miserable Nazi thing funny and are pointing out to the world they can wear or joke about what they want.

I laugh when I see people stopping to state at some thai driving around looking like a Nazi..

We call uptight control freaks a Nazi for a laugh don't you.

I think they are making fun of western history and reminding us we have been the most brutal ignorant people in history.. Germans anyways.. lots of Germans are very serious about hating Americans now a days... also I think they also like to shock the Israel people that rampage threw their country without respect.

All and all its a joke and look, it works for.

Remember the sex pistols.. god save the queen ?

What do you expect from a country full of over 60 million people who don't know that a world exists beyond their borders and who generally despise non-Thais? Nothing new here for those of us who live here. Let the 2 week tourists be surprised.

Leave out the "us" if you please. I personally think you can shoot that entire post into the loo.

The not knowing "that a world exists beyond their borders" is spot on. Most Thais know next to nothing about the very people they supposedly revere. I lived in Thailand for years and I met maybe five people who could tell me where HM the King was born or about his cultured musical tastes. As a Test Prep Instructor, I began asking basic biographical questions about Thailand's venerable monarch to students as a litmus test for assessing what type of student I'd be dealing with. It worked well. If the student couldn't tell me basic biographical data about Thailand's Father, he/she usually ended up being fatally ignorant about his/her own country's and hence the world's issues. Knowledge is tied to reading. If there is no knowledge, you can be sure that reading skills are lacking as well. Thailand has an awful school system. This is widely acknowledged even among Thais. It follows logically that the result would be intellectual suffocation. Thailand is Exhibit A of that unfortunate dynamic.

PS it sounds like your one of those miserable teachersnin pink Floyd the wall.. or daddy is a lazy fat intellectual.

What do you expect from a country full of over 60 million people who don't know that a world exists beyond their borders and who generally despise non-Thais? Nothing new here for those of us who live here. Let the 2 week tourists be surprised.

Leave out the "us" if you please. I personally think you can shoot that entire post into the loo.

The not knowing "that a world exists beyond their borders" is spot on. Most Thais know next to nothing about the very people they supposedly revere. I lived in Thailand for years and I met maybe five people who could tell me where HM the King was born or about his cultured musical tastes. As a Test Prep Instructor, I began asking basic biographical questions about Thailand's venerable monarch to students as a litmus test for assessing what type of student I'd be dealing with. It worked well. If the student couldn't tell me basic biographical data about Thailand's Father, he/she usually ended up being fatally ignorant about his/her own country's and hence the world's issues. Knowledge is tied to reading. If there is no knowledge, you can be sure that reading skills are lacking as well. Thailand has an awful school system. This is widely acknowledged even among Thais. It follows logically that the result would be intellectual suffocation. Thailand is Exhibit A of that unfortunate dynamic.

reading is overrated , it worked good for the people in cold climates, but verbal history threw song and dance is far better. I bet most Thais can't stand your inspection of them and get a chuckle out of pulling your leg. Thais in Bangkok are exposed to people from all over the world.

I'm so happy that I no longer live in South Korea........this cr*p is one of the many reasons.

what is the place like I have always wondered if I would like it.

PS one time I hung my drying underwear beside a spirit house and a guy flipped out. Other Thais almost shat them self laughing.