Ajarn

Holy Mazoly! What incredible air pollution today! Visibility on the road was no more than 200 meters (Mae Jo road and new ring road from Mae Jo rd to Mae Rim road) Some cars even had their lights on (2pm)....I live 4km from the base of Doi Suthep, and there was not even the faint outline visible that I see on other bad days....

Back to my air con...

I think it's kind of patronizing towards local people to think that locals are mere meek sheep who are easily led to the slaughter by any missionary who comes along. (Forgive the analogy..

A good point, and one I agree with myself...I mentioned earlier that I've rarely met stupid hilltribe people, but many many types of desperation...

Desperation is what Christianity feeds on, and in some cases, especially involving hilltribes, it can become almost like selling your soul to the devil...

All parents, everywhere, dream for better lives for their children than they had...They dream about good health and happiness for their children. They dream about their kids one day supporting their parents, and try to plan for that day. Formal Education is seen by many as a way to a better life....

So, along come some missionaries to build a school, maybe even a health center....Great!

But, then they often stick around.... And this is where the damage starts to occur, in my experience.

A few days ago, I was talking with my friend Jim Goodman, who has spent the last 20 years studying and writing about the Akha, mostly. I've known Jim most of that time, and I absolutely trust his knowledge and experience with the Akha. I always use him to check out ideas or impressions I've gotten from my visits to various hilltribes..

Anyway, we were dicussing Mathew and the Missionaries (Jim wrote an article about Mathew recently for Irawaddy Magazine)...In the course of our conversation, Jim related a story of a visit he had with an Akha family not too long ago...

He was sitting around chatting with the family, when their daughter said she was christian....Jim asked why she didn't follow the Akhazan (Akha Way), and she replied, "Because Jesus loves me, I know. He told me so" (recognize the song?). The father's face turned sad. "But your father is the (forgot the name, but he's respected in his village as an upholder of the Akkha Way)", Jim said to her...." But he follows the devil!", she responded.... The father turned his face away, and sobbed...

I think this what Mathew also means when he says, "Missionaries Steal Akha Children"

Some of these people ARE using children as pawns in their schemes to convert the Akha. They create more instability within the family and village structure in the process. This insidious conversion ends up contributing only to more and more pain for many....

The adults are quite smart, but the meek sheep are usually the children. It's these sheep many missionaries are courting now, and I believe they do have it in their mind that converting the child is the easiest first step in converting the family.

This isn't giving from the heart, this is giving from the businessman. They expect a return on their investment...

Again, I want to add that not all christians operate like this, but many do. Even one is too many, in my view.

Applaud the people who give, but watch out for the ones who stick around after the giving is done....

A lot of the Hill Tribes problems stem from the Thai extreme xenophobia. Their total unwillingness to offer enfranchisement to any they consider different

Yes, a very important point...I also sometimes hear Khon Thai commenting that the government should be taking care of poor Thais before helping hilltribes; My housekeeper, from Chiang Dao, also feels the government gives more aid to the hilltribes than to the local Thais in Chiang Dao....

Great articles in the post on giving from a Buddhist perspective, and I think appropriate to the discussion on Missionary 'giving'...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/en/Outlook/28Mar2004_out01.php

http://www.bangkokpost.com/en/Outlook/28Mar2004_out02.php

?

Buddhism is a WAY OF LIFE, and a lifestyle. It is a method of managing ones tme to be in harmony with ones surroundings. As a way of life it is a religion, but not in the same sense as xtians think about it.

I also think Buddhism is a way of life, as I think Christianity can also be a way of life for the christians...

One is based on a religion, the other is based on, well...common sense

At the moment, Akha kids have no papers to identify them.  Akha kids normally don't get an education. Akha kids have no access to medical care.

Not to discount the problems, but this statement above is not true for all Akha, as suggested...

'Some', 'many', maybe even 'most'.....But not 'All', by any means...

Education in Thailand is not just limited to Thais or others with citizenship papers, but official recognition of their studies in govt. schools, ie, prathom/mathayon certificates, is limited to only those with citizenship papers. Actually the Thai government has made many improvements to allow kids, especially hilltribe kids, better access (mostly) to education...But there still are many many who lack transportation to school, or must leave school early in order to work....

Basic medical care is available to everyone, as I understand things, but access is a problem still for many. I'll admit I'm less 'up' on the medical issue than the education issue....

There are many Akha with Thai citizenship papers, and their children will also have papers, assuming their births were registered properly.

But, there are certainly large numbers of Akha without papers, many of them were born here, too. The citizenship issues in Mae Ai, are just one example of many people born in Thailand either not receiving their deserved citizenship, or having their citizenship unfairly revoked by local officials. Keeping these issues alive and in the public view, offer the best chance of help, in my view......Even the some of the more extreme statements made, like on Mathew's car, help to keep the issues in the forefront, reminding and educating people that these issues are still around....

(Actually the most common Thai greeting 'sawasdee' is derived from the same Sanskrit word that gave us 'swastika'.

Yes, I knew it was from something old in India, and was positive, but I never really thought about its other connections...Thanks for pointing that out

And, I know how easy it is to be misunderstood, or misunderstand others when using text...The little smilies sometimes help, but it sure doesn't replace the human face or voice...I'm misunderstood often, it seems

Hope to see your face someday!

I think Huay Thung Thaew Lake is one of the best deals in the area. Beautiful. Numerous spots to choose from, depending on whether you want peace and quiet, eating, swimming, kayaking or peddle boating... A place where kids have plenty of room to play, and where parent's chances for a quiet momentary respite from kids is a good possibility..

(Then again, perhaps you took my quote to mean that Thais feel exactly the same about Jesus as they do about Buddha.. that would definitely be a stretch yes..)

I only went by your words, trying not to read between any lines. I hate it when people try to read too much between my lines. That's why I try to make my words clear

Go into any Thai commercial jewlry store, or look at what many Thai girls wear in their ears...Crosses, not Buddha amulets, will be found in these places. Thais simply don't treat these images the same, as you said they do. Someone will likely respect something you wear because you value it yourself, but crosses are just fashion items for most (Unless you are a Thai christian, of course), like the swaztikas kids also wear now. Many might have no clue as to a further meaning, or historical background.... Taking any jewelry off and throwing it to the ground will likely surprise anyone...

I find many Thais to be sensitive to things I value, as I try to do with things they value...To me, that's just simple respect in a basic form

Anyway, it wasn't a flame. I just sorta sensed you got caught up with the emotion you were obviously feeling when you wrote the message above that statement:)

Say if you wear a cross/Jesus figure around your neck, you can be 100% sure a Thai will treat it with the same respect as he would a Buddhist or spirit amulet.

Well, I feel that's a bit of a stretch....

Anyone in Chiang Mai interested in trading DVDs?

I have about 30 and a friend I trade with about the same number. I have been wanting involve a few more people to get to see a wider range of movies and keep it cheaper for everyone involved.

Interested?

Scott

09-7001805

Scott, I've got perhaps 200 DVD's that I'd be willing to loan out or trade....But, I don't have any modern movies...Mostly old classic movies, and also old Western TV shows (like The Rifleman and Bonanza, for example) and many other TV shows from the 50's-70's...The newest ones I have are the first two years of the Osbournes (reality show on Ozzie) and Law and Order. All from Amazon.com

Anyway, a lot of stuff. I even have 'Chang'...

If anyone is interested, you'll need to come to my home to see what I have. I live near Kad Ruamchoke, just off the main road.

Call me at 09-851-4676 to make an appointment

No money involved....

Amy, I'm really impressed with the maturity in your words. Your desire to remain openminded and balanced in your thinking is a lesson maybe some of us here should pay some attention to....

Thankfully, Thailand still has freedom of religion, and freedom of speech (well, mostly...). In my opinion, if an Akha wants to be a christian, fine. That's a personal choice. But I feel it should be from their own lead, rather than coming from outside pressure to become a christian, buddhist, muslim, or whatever. I'm not a believer in censoring education, but education must be delivered cleanly and accurately, without pressure, and without hidden agendas on the teacher's part...

My own personal Truth is 'Tham Dee, Dai Dee. Tham Chua, Dai Chua (Do good, get good. Do bad, get bad) I've seen the truth in that all my life, especially the do bad, get bad part.

Have a great trip. I hope you'll report back on your adventures....

Interesting points, chanchao. They make sense from a common sense way of looking at things. As you said, it's probably not so black and white, but I'll bet plenty of Thais feel that way, even if they can't communicate it as clearly...The feeling is still there that something ain't quite kosher

Imagine though the response in your home country if a bunch of Ayatollah's would go preach on people, trying to convert them to their religion..    Thais are a very tolerant bunch, indeed.   Or a case of 'water off a ducks back'?

Yes, I agree. As was pointed out earlier Thais (or Thai Buddhists) show much more tolerance of other religions than many other religions show towards Buddhism. One of the great strenghths of Buddhism, in my view.

I hope that Amy will practice the open mind that she preaches when she visits....I sense that there will be some among her group of 20 with less than open minds....

I have a car, and I enjoy cruising down Thapae road once during Songkran...It usually takes at least an hour, but I'm dry, with my aircon on, and I enjoy watching the mayhem outside. Most cars are pretty much invisible- they'd much rather focus on farangs in tuk-tuks...But if you crack your window on your car even an inch, expect a flood

You can still go out to some smaller villages and enjoy a more traditional Songkran....But alcohol use is heavy, and they all want the passing foreigners to join their party, and they can be quite pushy sometimes.

And don't forget that areas around Chiang Rai will start the water-tossing sometimes a week, or longer, before the official dates...

Anyone is welcome to come to Thailand for a holiday and to meet the people of this land. But bloody leave your <deleted> at home. Dont come here and try to convert people. Dont even talk about it. No-one needs to hear the crap that will come out of your mouth. You will only be trying to satisfy your own needs. Go see a psychologist first.

Amy, I think it's good that you see that message, too. Some here have very strong feelings on this topic, and aren't shy about expressing it. It's doubtfull you'll get that kind of reaction from Thais, though....They are generally more polite.

In my neighbourhood (Thapae gate) It "snows" ashes every evening.

Does it happen in your neighbourhoods too ?

How weird...I've never seen that happen- And I've always dreamed of snow in CM!

I live 2 km's north of the Super, just off Mae Jo road...

Ajarn.  re: the issue of salaries, taxes and visas for teachers etc.  I got my information from the "questions & answers" section of the Phuket Gazette.  This is an excellent forum from which to get 'official' answers to various questions.  The paper submits the questions to the various government offices and the replies comes from authorised government officials.  Don't think we can do much better than this.  There is a list of past questions on the site going back about 1 year.  The link is http://phuketgazette.net/    Hope this is useful.

Thanks for the link! That does answer some critical questions I had....but I still feel confident that govt university teachers will get the nod for the one year stamp...At CMU, teachers are being told that nothing will change for them...

Maybe it's only the new ones, since there's word that most of these new regs are to be grandfathered in...

And there's still always the possibility of a political wind change....

Onward, through the fog

Most people living around here are great even though almost everyone of them are police! Except the guy whose fire i put out! I made sure of that first!

With a moniker of 'chokrai' it might pay to be careful !

> You quote rent at 5,000 baht - that is the MONTHLY rent, right?

Of course.  Chiang Mai is cheap, but not that cheap that it could be yearly..

Note that I'm paying 5000/mo as well.  Big 3 bedroom 4 bathroom + maid room 2 storey house in a popular compound.  (Don't like compounds, but at this price for a nice house I'm not complaining).

Yes, there really are quite a few good deals still to be found on houses for rent...In my mubaan (Tanawan), Most of the smaller houses are advertised for around 7,000 baht, fully furnished, with phone and air....I know of 4 that I've looked at personally.. I like the older muubaans, mostly because they usually have lots greenery and big shade trees...The new mubaans with big houses sitting in naked lots just looks hot and uninviting to me.

The first time I found a house, soon after I first arrived, I went out with a tuk-tuk driver who could speak for me, and read the for rent signs for me...That landed me a beautiful place off Suthep road, just across from cmu...That area still has some good deals for the creative and motivated house hunter. Rent prices in CM have remained very stable over the last 10-15 years, in my experience.

There is also an agent who advertises in CityLife (I think). I think it's now called Chiang Mai Habitat, and the guy's name is Teera. Nice guy, energetic, but not pushy. He's the one who showed us those 7,000 baht homes (We drove around the muubaan and found our gem for 5,000) Sorry, I can't remember his phone #...

Oh, and part of the reason my rent remains cheap is because I volunteered to pay a year in advance, every year. Landlords love that, but get to know your landlord first, before that kind of committment, I'd suggest. I also do any needed repairs myself. I take good care of their house because it's my Home...

Can any long term CMers say HOW MANY MONTHS of the year it can be expected in CM to be hazy, smoky, dusty? I have been seriously looking into moving to CM, but have asthma, so now I wonder. I was recently there for 10 days in early February and noticed the heavy haze and obstructed views, but I imagine it got worse than that.

In my experience, the field/forest burning starts as soon as the ground is dry enough after the end of the rainy season, starting around the middle of December, on average...

It gradually gets worse and worse until around this time, and this lasts until shortly after the rains start, when it becomes to wet to burn anything...May is among the wettest months of the year, but often Songran can signal the beginning of the rains, and some blue skies...Once the rains start, everything is beautiful again for another 6 months or so....

Mak, I think if we start to criticize each other's grammar here, none of us would be safe from flames

I certainly agree with your feeling that teachers should be committed to their teaching, but I've learned that that committment isn't always easy to see, and it's such a subjective pigeon-hole, it seems. For someone hiring teachers, it often feels like playing the lottery....Only personal integrity can assure committment- not years in school, or numbers of degrees...It still comes down to the individual

I am not criticising those who travel in this fashion in anyway, and I have done a bit myself a few years ago BUT I didn't take a teaching position for a few months at the expense of children. If this appears negative so be it I suppose

I'm just as concerned as anyone that students not get 'damaged' by teachers, but I've never seen any evidence, personally, that a short-term teacher is somehow inherently negative for students, and I've hired plenty of teachers over the years. Short-term teachers, with integrity as a teacher, will bring the same committment to quality to their class as any teacher doing it for much longer periods, in my experience. But, there certainly are bad teachers, and I worked hard to find them, and either turn them around, or boot them out the door. That was my responsibility to our students.

Mak, I appreciate your thoughts, even though there might be a couple of points we don't see eye-to-eye on. But I feel that you are being honest and straight-forward when presenting your views and arguments, and I appreciate that. I'm here to share, to think, to learn... Just as you. Thanks for the open mind... it's a bit of a rarity here, at times

Lawrence

I agree that the market prices for used houses are about the same as they are for new, or even custom-made....Given that, the new housing market is what's been booming lately, not the used housing market, from my view.

I prefer renting because of the flexibility and freedom I have. If I ever find that dream bungalow on a quiet beach I've been looking for, I'm outta here in a flash!

I am so sick of telling people to Rent, and having them say "no it's dead money", that I have given up.

I can give you the name of an excellent lawyer and an even better psychiatrist.

You can't OWN the land ever. Got it/.... ever. Leases schmeases. RENT..RENT..RENT.

My house has been on the market for 4 years.... The owner wants 1.8 million baht.

My rent has been 5,000 baht for the last 4 years- and will continue at that rate into the foreseeable future, for sure.

Would anyone suggest it's better to buy the house? I think not...

I've yet to hear of a farang being able to successfully sell their house when they wanted to, though there are plenty of stories about foreigners losing their homes...

Drive around Chiang Mai and see all the failed housing projects. I would estimate the number to be possibly more than 1,000 such failed places...

Keep your money.

I can give you the name of an excellent lawyer

IT, a good lawyer in Chiang Mai? Really?