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stephenterry
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Posts posted by stephenterry
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9 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:As our elected politicians don't want or cant make a decision on a deal to stay in or out or any point in-between it must be time to put this back to the people to revote with the facts including just how much has been spent to get us where we are now to the nearest billion. my guess would be the near enough to end homelessness and foodbanks ????
Whereas I support your sentiments, the people cannot DECIDE, only parliament. You could have a referendum every week and not get anywhere.
At this point in time parliament has decided against a no-deal.
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4 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:
There was a vote,the majority vote was out. The "dead" bodies will be the ones who did not respect the vote....anything more?
So go and lobby your MP. That's your right.
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7 minutes ago, wreckingcountry said:
All the Europhiles who never accepted result can do all they want because we’ll see them in hell, even if we have to join them there
Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connectjust don't tread on the ducks, as you'll be saddled with a Europhile for the rest of eternity...
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2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:Think the Lib Dems would want a second referendum.
After winning huge amounts of seats at a GE? Supposing they form an alliance with Labour, it would be in Britain's interest for them to declare the way forward as a government - in other words, have a freaking plan in place, something the tories have lacked for over three years.
IMO, this should include how they're going to address their future relationship with the EU, because it is clearly not working as effectively, and as transparently, as a member country could expect.
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1 minute ago, TopDeadSenter said:Likely this will come down to either a Lab/LibDem coalition or Brexit/Conservative coalition. My money is on the latter. London is just a small part of England, the rest of the country overwhelming wanted to regain sovereignty.
Of course, should Lab/LibDem win an election they will let us have a 2nd election. A second vote, to make sure people really understood what they voted for. And then maybe a 3rd? All this time without actually assuming power and governing as per the electoral mandate. Right?!
We'll see. I would expect that Lib Dems would construct their manifesto to declare that voting for them means the UK stays in the EU.
As for farage stating that he wouldn't contest against the tories providing Johnson says he would exit with a no-deal, shows what a scumbag he is.
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Not a lot to say. Seems like Johnson's bullying approach only riled the tory rebels, and will continue to do so.
As for a GE that is most likely once a no-deal is garbaged, I consider that the Lib Dems would be kingmakers by joining a Labour coalition government. That's if they've got any respect for deciding what's best for the country - which clearly Johnson doesn't.
He'll probably go down in history as the most reviled PM ever. Not that I'll be around to witness it as this brexit garbage is likely to stink out Westminster for years ahead.
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37 minutes ago, charlie farnsbarns said:
Some think this way, some think that way... there are positives and negatives for everyone... everyone has their own set of reasons which suits them. Uh-huh. That's kiddy stuff. I'm talking about a far bigger thing than your Brexit opinion. The principle is the important thing here, and the principle is that losers must lose. I repeat, by refusing to lose, you are undermining the basis of all future political process. Is the remainers' egocentricity that big?
You have the democratic right to lobby your MP, and parliament would decide on a course of action - hopefully to benefit Britain. That's political democracy in action.
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16 minutes ago, petermik said:
My sorrow is for all the EU beaurocrats on huge salaries who may have to take pay cuts when we walk away......we voted OUT we want OUT
Go and lobby your MP, then. Which is your right.
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13 minutes ago, charlie farnsbarns said:You don't get it. System breakdown is by far the bigger issue. Losers must lose for systemic reasons. If the losers manage not to lose this time, what will happen next time? I will tell you: the losers in future (who always have their reasons, and who will then be your opponents) will also refuse to lose. The consequence is never-ending deadlock and conflict.
You need to understand the way politics works. In a reasonably free society people naturally join one of two camps because competition is intrinsic to human nature and competition only works effectively in bipolar fashion - you can't have a football match with three teams. A reasonably free population regulates itself in this way so that power moves periodically from one side to the other. The duality, and the swing, are both essential to the system. The temporarily losing side MUST periodically cede control to the temporarily victorious side or there is no system at all. But don't worry - the system readjusts itself naturally upon successive swings.
To block a vote - for whatever reasons - is simply to obstruct the only social/political/philosophical process that works. Losers must lose, regardless of their reasons, and also because there are other people with different reasons - that's something else they need to understand and respect.
And it's Britain that's going to lose unless some sanity is restored by the politicians - which is the whole point of them seeking to block a no-deal.
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1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:If they vote for a GE, it is Boris that chooses the date. There would be nothing to stop him picking a date after 31 October. Labour cannot risk that.
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Should that be the case, it opens up a whole load of possibilities - all of which would bring more disruption for the UK. Seems to me that the simplest - and probably the least damaging economic option - would be the passing of May's WAG, with a few concessions on the political statement. If the ERG tory rebels hadn't hi-jacked it, the UK would already have left the EU, and we would be getting on with life.
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Just now, brewsterbudgen said:
If Labour are smart they will abstain in the vote for a GE and deny Boris the two-thirds majority he needs. Then there will be 14 days to see if they can agree on a "unity" government. The seriousness of a No Deal Brexit just might get them to agree on a temporary Prime Minister.
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Interesting possibility, but could Corbyn resist the chance of winning a GE?
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Today is going to be interesting as UK parliament could seek to block Johnson and a no-deal. My initial thoughts are that - as is usual - there is a lack of unity among the tory rebels, but continual threats by Johnson is probably not the best strategy to bring them onside to unite the party.
I could see those MPs getting really riled, and probably tell him to foxtrot oscar - and to take Cummings and his cabinet with him.
Any bets on announcement of a GE on Wednesday? Which is probably Johnson's best time to win a significant parliamentary majority with the tories ahead on the polls and facing a weak Labour party headed by Corbyn.
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It's up to parliament to decide what's right for Britain. That's constitutional democracy in action. By all means lobby your MP, as is your right, but the 'people' do NOT have any constitutional right to make decisions on brexit.
And as far as I can garner, Johnson does seek a deal - at least, that's what most of the media report, and there are indications that a loosening of opposition to the backstop issue by Macron and Merkel - but not Barnier - is possible.
What is of more concern to me is Gove's lack of any reports on the consequences of a no-deal, just a big cover-up, IMO. The fact that adverse consequences would occur should be pretty clear to anyone with a grain of realism. It is this ongoing negativity, that has influenced MPs to seek legislation to remove a no-deal scenario.
IMO a new referendum suits no purpose; better to have a GE and let the parties deliver their manifestos - but, in the interim, hope Johnson does obtain concessions from the EU to convince his party to vote for that deal.
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9 minutes ago, vogie said:
Who is doing the blaming here.....you.
It is very much the point, parliament has reneged on a democratic vote, that is not the fault of Boris.
Blame the Tory ERGs then for voting against May's deal.
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5 minutes ago, smedly said:
exactly - they don't
you will have to tell them and if they are unavailable you and/or your landlord will get hit with a big fine (depending of course on what office you use)
If I go to visit family outside CM, I'm not going to tell IMM at all on my return. A hotel, well that's different.
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16 hours ago, elliss said:
Does Corbyn have an agenda ?.
He is totally inadequate , Labour party is not effective in opposition .
We get what we vote... Tory party are indeed blessed , having Corbyn as opposition leader.
All part of the plan ? ...
Quite agree, I have no idea why he hasn't been turfed out.
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On 8/30/2019 at 11:27 AM, <deleted> dasterdly said:
"It's up to the incoming government to decide what happens next."
Actually, the incoming govt. is supposed to carry out their manifesto - not decide afterwards "what happens next"!
There was a GE in '17 (IIRC) - and the remain supporting parties lost badly. Both the conservatives and labour manifestos were to respect the referendum result.
Yes, the tories lost a lot of seats in the GE, and I hope to one day find out why they came out with other policies that would clearly lose them a lot of votes.....
Well maybe Labour will state the same when a GE is called. Only their main aim is to stay in the customs union and possibly the single market.
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18 hours ago, Loiner said:
Freedom. Sovereignty. Control.
Nothing to worry about, unless you will miss the dominatrix.As Steven said: You really have no idea about the consequences of a no deal.
I'll make it easier.
Freedom - you can't feed families on that.
Sovereignty - the UK is a sovereign state
Control - the UK has all the laws it needs in place to protect voters on what matters most to the man on the street, come a GE. And it controls 98% of all its expenditure.
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On 8/30/2019 at 10:56 AM, sungod said:
Completely agree, that's why the EU need to come up with a better plan, theirs has been rejected by the UK parliament 3 times, EU must recognise this or there is no way forward.
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Well, it does demonstrate that Johnson is aiming to secure a deal that he can get approved by parliament. The 'sticking point', which was always going to be the sticking point from day one is the Irish Backstop.
IMO, the only solution is to amend the political statement to e.g. - measures would be put in place during the transitional period. Britain won't be forced to stay in the backstop blah blah.
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15 hours ago, billd766 said:
But there was a general election in 2017.
So we have had a referendum and we have had a GE. Now what?
quote "Bear in mind, I'm not against change by any means. But it has got to be the right approach, with the right plans and right benefit aim for Britain."
Who should decide what are the right plans and right benefit aim for Britain?
I would like to hope that the winning party's manifesto provides that answer.
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15 hours ago, billd766 said:
And if the people still want to leave, I assume that you would carry on with Brexit?
If the people want to stay that makes it 1 referendum all. So will you allow the leavers to have a third referendum?
If not then why not?
Bill, please read my post. A GE is not a referendum. It's to select a government party. It's up to the incoming government to decide what happens next. I understand the latest from Corbyn is that another referendum is not on their party's agenda.
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5 minutes ago, puipuitom said:
Read on TV: MANY British pensionado's in TH voted for a Brexit. So, they are going to get for what they voted for… BACK HOME...
The quicker the better, IMO.
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50 minutes ago, mikosan said:
Another vote, why? If I remember correctly we had a vote 3 years ago and the majority voted OUT. So whether any of us like it or not, that was the decision, so let's get on with it.
A GE is not a referendum initiated by the Tory party, however much you'd like it to be. And as far as decisions are concerned, it is up to government/parliament to make them, not voters.
Bear in mind, I'm not against change by any means. But it has got to be the right approach, with the right plans and right benefit aim for Britain. So far, that criteria has been sorely lacking by the Tory government - fortunately soon to be voted out of power for generations.
That would be an appropriate change, not some cobbled together brexit shambles.
Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election
in World News
Posted
Link to that prospect, please.