Several

Not all energy comes from the sun. All the planets are giving off more energy than they receive. There's no current explaination for this in physics, so they ignore it. I'm not sure it is possible to say consciousness is or is not energy. Can a negative proposition be proved scientifically? I know not. You can say that consciousness has an effect, ask Schroedingers cat.

Buddha says there are six senses, the regular five plus mind, and he also seperates senses from sense objects which implies to me that mind itself is acting as a sense organ. So some form of energy must interact with an organ, sound light, touch etc for us to become conscious of it. Then descend through judgements and feelings thereby creating Kamma, as stated in the Dependent Origination resulting in the usual sorrow, lamentation and suffering. And then we go around again. Wheee!

Ahem. Meandering towards the point, I am not convinced anything is disproved about energy. I also feel science should only speak authoritatively about what they can provide incontovertible evidence for. Pre 1996 all scientists were solidly convinced there were no planets orbiting any sun other than ours. It was a 'fact'. Then one guy showed evidence of a planet orbiting Pegasi 51. Hooray. The following morning it is 'a fact' that there are likely to be planets everywhere. And the character who found this first planet had been, up to that point, the number one voice against the possibility of other planets as proposed by two other researchers. A total disgrace of an individual, but the scientific community became instantly blind to this underhanded maneuver in the dazzling light of new discovery.

I like science, but I don't trust scientists. Same as I have belief in Buddhism but not all Buddhists. There are things in the universe that are unknown and unknowable for a human and that makes me happy. As part of this universe it experiences itself through that infinitesimally small part of itself that is me. That seems to include a mixture of Kamma, consciousness and rebirth in my experience.

I hope the, person, who discovered the first new world around Pegasi receives the full measure of his Kamma in one go. I also hope we find a better way of describing energy because its causing too much confusion. And just because I can't find my keys, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

Goodnight!

I have heard this before and I must say I cannot see it. Eliminating digital characters who are respawned immediately is not killing and has no attachment to it. People have blamed tv, movies, books and all manner of media for psychotic behviour but is this the cause or the thing itself? By this definition chess is murder.

One of the Columbine killers wrote levels for Doom but he obviously had problems already. 'Kill em all' he wrote in the instructions, but playing Doom didn't satisfy his desire to kill for real because in the end its only a game.

If someone were deluded enough to truly believe that they were really killing digital characters then yes thats going to probably produce negative Kamma but even then I doubt it will be on the scale of actually taking a life.

You would treat both the same, lethal or not. There is a story of a monk hurling himself off a cliff to die near a tigeress and her cubs. He did this because the tigress had been unable to hunt and she and the cubs were close to starving to death. Compassion is blind. It isn't about judging who should receive it.

"the more I know, the more I know I don't know."

I'm pretty sure that what christians call meditation is actually contemplation.

No there is a sharp distinction between meditation and contemplation.

See here for example: https://en.wikipedia...i/Lectio_divina

Yep, came across this recently. The christian version of meditation is not the same as Buddhist. It involves thinking rather than mindfulness. The distinction between that and contemplation isn't that sharp. Its like considering the worthiness of a statement then feeling good about it. Nothing wrong with that if it makes you more positive.

You can become a monk for as long or short a time as you like. You'll get out what you put in. Make sure the monastery ways accord with your own. Some focus on chanting or working, others meditation. I think its a great idea to at least try it. I'm sure some of the others here will give you good advice.

I'm pretty sure that what christians call meditation is actually contemplation.

Yes, there is a rational basis, same as christianity & others,

namely to create some values & ethics, or humanity really.

Moses said: If thee rip the balls off another man thee shalt suffer hell !

Buddha said: Karma goes downhill and you'll be reborn without balls if you rip the balls

off another man

Hang on, is this why there are more women than men in the world?

dam_n that Moses was a hard case.

Thanks for the video Leo, but I'll have to take your word for it. The connection here sucks and I have trouble sending emails sometimes. Must be Kamma.

Oh, and good Kamma can get you born into a situation where you are exposed to the teachings that will get you to Nibbana.

Hi Several

Well, let's assume that's correct. You don't need to believe in some obscure cosmic rule (karma) to be a good person. It wont hurt to believe it, but i don't see a 100% coorelation between believing and being. Animals don't believe in karma, and yet manage to be reborn as humans. I realize your statement isn't an abosolute.. i think. Why did Buddha just happen to be a Hindu in all or most of his previous human lives.?. why was he never a Native American? Would a native American never be reborn into a buddhist culture? does karma only apply to people following a hindu or Buddhist path?

The thing with beliefs is that they are biochemical patterns in the brain.. they can change.. and when you die, they are gone.

So why rely on beliefs at all? I used to be religious. I think it was this realization that beliefs are temoporary, mundane chemical patways in the brain. So belief is not a ticket to anywhere.

Yo Leo. Yeah, I try not to sound absolute and as a monk I'm required to believe in Kamma. Or at least verify it for myself. For the animals its more a case of exhausting the Kamma they have rather than aquiring good Kamma. I don't think a tiger gets bad Kamma from killing as that is its design function, so to speak. The tiger must also have some kind of belief that there is prey it can stalk even though the impetus to do so is at a genetic level, its mother taught it how to go about it.

There is no reason why Gotama could not have been an American Indian at some point. The description goes something like we have all been each others mothers, brothers, fathers, lovers and enemies at some point in the round of rebirths. Pretty unlikely that all occured in India. There are stories of non-Buddhist arahants and Pacceka Buddhas (who did not hear the teachings of the Buddha) so I'd be pretty surprised if the American Indians did not produce a few of those.

True enough that belief itself achieves nothing. The tiger salivating over the possibilty of deer won't fill his guts without going forth. Following the logic that all mentation is biochemical it still results in suffering. I lived my life how I pleased and obtained unpleasant results. I heard of the four noble truths and found two to be true, that there is suffering and a cause of it (mostly my own actions). I believe that the other two must be true; that there is a path to and an end of suffering (also to be found within myself). I follow this way to verify this and make it a reality. So belief engenders effort until I can abandon it for knowing.

Oh, and good Kamma can get you born into a situation where you are exposed to the teachings that will get you to Nibbana.

Only in as far as you consider your actions. Right thought, speech, action etc. I do think it should only be considered in relation to ones own situation. I met one monk who would tell people their afflictions were due to bad Kamma which generally caused them to become enraged and abusive. Surprise surprise. Not everything that happens is due to Kamma, but as Buddhists we believe it explains a lot. Even if it proves to be a fallacy at very least it caused some to consider their actions and be nice to their mum. Which is good.

Perhaps someone can help me here, having trouble with the line 'fathom long carcass.'

The unit of measurement is, I believe, imperial. Yes thats a bit niggly and there was obviously an equivalent unit/s in Buddhas time. Carcass? Not yet. It will be, but this is an inaccurate assesment. Anapanasati would be rather difficult. Neither of these words are in the Pali English Dictionary. I'm wondering what the original Pali says and whether this line has been subject to 'poetic license'?

Yep. You can. And if you reach enlightenment Kamma is no longer a problem. But it is not so simple as keeping the great unwashed in line. You can die of dehydration in a rainforest, become soaked with sweat in a desert.

Theres a Tibetan story about an old man whose horse runs away. People said 'bad karma' but he said 'we shall see.'

Some time later his stallion returns with two mares.

His son falls and brakes his leg training the mares.

'bad karma.'

'we shall see.'

Tibetan army arrives to recruit more soldiers, but leave his son because he is infirm.

It is easy to say that everything is random and I cannot claim to know the truth of it. I do know that two and a half millenia ago a very wise man said that there was a thing called Kamma and to explore the possibility for myself. To my knowledge no scientist ever gained enlightenment and escaped suffering. Intelligence may tell you a thing cannot be, wisdom will explore the possibility.

There is more to the subconscious. It does act as an incredible memory bank storing everything we perceive from the moment our senses become active. It can also perform mathematical computations almost instantly as demonstrated by some individuals. Others play songs they have heard once or improvise new music with no technical training whatsoever (I knew a guy who could do this). Many people can 'order' themselves to wake up at a certain time, and do (I learned that trick from my mum) without the aid of a clock. I'm not denying what Rocky says, but I do feel there's more to the subconscious than we know, and the math and improv are not memory functions. If Kamma is stored then why not there? It is unbiased, it affects our behaviour. If through rigorous meditation we loosen the grip of the memory of past actions, our emotional investment in them fades, they cease to have power over us in our equanimity.

Yes, very few countries will risk damaging trade relations with China these days.

The Dalai Lama visited Thailand in 1993, during the first Chuan Leekpai administration. It's the only Buddhist nation in SE Asia that has allowed a visit in the last 20 years. In fact, the only other nation he visited in SE Asia in that period was Indonesia in 1992.

He visited Australia in 96 but the Chinese gave the Aussie government a hard time about it. He was invited back later, around 2000 I think, but the Aussie government had their minds changed for them by increased Chinese pressure. Its a shame but there you go. Money over merit I guess. I seem to remember quite a few people giving the government a hard time about doing what they are told by foreign powers. His first visit was a great success. Quiet a few Australians are sympathetic towards Buddhism.

That is strange. I wonder who it was visited Australia in June this year. SOLD a lot of tickets too. Maybe the fuss is that the Australian Government did not recognise this as a visit by a head of state.

http://www.dalailamainaustralia.org/

seems he was also there in 2011 too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016081/Dalai-Lama-Australian-Masterchef-reveals-favourite-foods.html

Heh. Haven't been to Oz in a couple of years. Bit behind on the news it seems. Took me three weeks to hear Osama was dead. It was a liberal government back then, suppose labor have different views. Didn't the Dalai Lama retire from political life? Could be wrong again but I thought he was only going to talk about non-political things.

Yes, very few countries will risk damaging trade relations with China these days.

The Dalai Lama visited Thailand in 1993, during the first Chuan Leekpai administration. It's the only Buddhist nation in SE Asia that has allowed a visit in the last 20 years. In fact, the only other nation he visited in SE Asia in that period was Indonesia in 1992.

He visited Australia in 96 but the Chinese gave the Aussie government a hard time about it. He was invited back later, around 2000 I think, but the Aussie government had their minds changed for them by increased Chinese pressure. Its a shame but there you go. Money over merit I guess. I seem to remember quite a few people giving the government a hard time about doing what they are told by foreign powers. His first visit was a great success. Quiet a few Australians are sympathetic towards Buddhism.

Eye know what you mean

Yes, the metaphysical aspect is very distracting for the majority of Buddhists. They seem to forget that extra sensory perception is still just perception and so a link in the chain of dependent origination. Seeking predictions about their future when we should be mindful of the present, bizarre magical cures in place of medicine. Tattoos to become bullet-proof when not aggravating the people with guns would suffice. But I feel it swings the other way too. The overly skeptical scientist pronouncing such-and-such isn't so without really knowing is a betrayal of serious inquiry and only based in a need to feel secure in the knowledge they have all the answers. Hardcore science is little better than fundamentalism unfortunately, when if they could admit their limitations perhaps we could keep working towards true understanding together instead of wasting time and energy arguing over who is right when nobody really knows.

Maybe the original question about a rational basis for Kamma isn't a good one. There is an emotional basis or element to its operation. It must effect behaviour and circumstance but thats a metaphysical aspect. Perhaps the only rational aspect of it is its 'you reap what you sow' causality. Maybe it is all in our heads after all. That does not make it any less real.

Exactly! It makes no difference to the practice. The Buddha's message applies to both the present lifetime and multiple lifetimes.

Where is does matter, though, is to those who end up categorizing Buddhism with all the other religions due to metaphysical interpretation.

The other other thing to consider is the affect on ones practice/progress.

Attachment to the view of many lives either in samsara or nibanna inflates the ego due to the imortality aspect

Also it can give one an excuse to hold off practice: "Oh well, just don't create new bad kharma, and you can hasve another crack at it in the next life!".

But many people are in miserable circumstances in this life and through making some merit they hope to improve in another. Would you rather tell them "Nah, sorry mate but youse are stuffed."? It isn't what Buddha taught us. I agree that its easier to say better luck next life and carry on however the mood takes you. It is better to follow the precepts. But how many people do you know who will become Arahant in this life through rigorous practice?

Metaphysical aspects are unavoidable. Many stories of the Buddha and his followers describe clairvoyance, clairaudience, bilocation etc as possible side effects of practice. Therefore perfectly natural. It is attachment to them as outcomes of practice that is a problem. People will never ignore these things and there will always be critics but ignoring the metaphysical entirely will cause problems if anything supernatural does happen to you. You will have no idea what is going on and it will do you more harm than good.

The best way we have been advised is the middle way. Accept the possibility of past and future lives but practice hard for the benefit of this one only. Be aware of metaphysical effects but do not seek them.

Well. There you go then. Thats one hell of a waiting list.

Just from a math perspective it seems that more humans are alive today than have ever lived throughout history. I'm not sure if there are correspondingly less animals to account for this. Buddha did speak about previous lives so I'm sure Kamma applies to both moment to moment and life to life rebirth. So how is this working? Without a 'soul' or individual is it possible that Kammic effect splits into more than one rebirth? When in different moods I can behave like completely different people. As stated before we are not the same as we were 20 years before, sometimes 20 seconds before. So does an 'unresolveable' kammic equation break down into multiple 'resolveable' equations upon rebirth?

It does seem odd. Leo will post something people find offensive, then say he is not being offensive, then gets offended.

I asked you once before to not offend Buddha and you replied you had every right to (or something to that effect).

Perhaps you do not see what you are doing, but many here have tried to advise that your choice of words may not be the best.

I think you are angry but that you hide that fact from yourself. Buddhism practiced rigorously would help you see and deal with that.

I think so. In fact preconceived ideas are the greatest enemy of realisation. Most peoples effort goes into defending prior ideas rather than exploring the possibility they could be wrong. I met a monk who said this sutta did not apply to the Buddhas teaching itself, but I disagree. I'm sure he wanted us to challenge ourselves with practice to verify what anybody proposed, including himself. And that is one of the things that makes him great in my eyes.