JCauto

54 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Surprised not to hear that the hospital has armed security personnel in this day and age which could have taken him out before the police arrived minimising the casualties.

 

Sad for the deceased, the injured, the staff, patience and families of all who had to endure this animals rage, although I am glad he ended his life as life in prison would be too good for him in my opinion.

In my country, we'd find it quite appalling to have to have armed security personnel on guard at hospitals, schools, etc. You know why we don't need to? Because we don't let our citizens arm themselves with assault rifles.

No doubt the proffered solution from the NRA extremists will be "arm the doctors and nurses". When "freedom" leads eventually to a police state...

"Round up the usual suspects. Find a couple Burmese Patsies."

12 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Please allow me to go back to the topic...: the fears expressed by a non-official anti-corruption group (the official ones being

safely silent, considering who's in favour of the project...).

IMHO, there are no less than SIX different 'potential' sources of corruption:

1) the abuse of public land to erect a private building to profit to some 'influential persons' only;

2) the way-too-low price put forward for the leasing of that land, to profit to...;

3) the building(?!) of the tower to be 'possibly' conceded, without open bidding, to some, erm, well-connected contractor;

4) the tower can be expected to raise the value of the large construction project the same 'influential persons' are busy with

    all around that tower-to-be;

5) the expectable hike in profitability for the businesses those 'influential persons' will run/rent out around the tower;

6) the management, and maintenance contracts for the tower ...when it ever gets finished.

What I am yet damn sure about is though:

- there will be corruption, judging 'by the smell', there is already, considering the rush(!) and shortcuts we are made aware of;

- though announced as 'privately financed', many (most?) of the (big) bills will, in the (bitter?) end be footed by the taxpayers.

 

Doing very little to fight against corruption, for sure when the results of measures announced are concerned, is one thing.

BUT creating new corruption is yet another.

And that, I guess, for many (most?) of the (initial) supporters of the present regime (including this Farang) does come as a bad surprise.

The small sample of public opinion I know of has turned sour and negative about uncle and his (big) brass band, what it does express in the usual Thai: it doesn't (in which valid way could it express itself openly without taking big risks, and who would be listening and could rush to help...?), the silence seems to be spreading, also on the Friday evenings, when it looks like many TVs

are 'off', in Thai homes where only Thai channels are available...

   

And so what use are the "official anti-corruption groups" when they won't voice opposition to something like this due to fear of their masters? Do you not see that as a major problem, one that diminishes their standing and value and makes a mockery of the whole concept of a watchdog? Corruption is not just money changing hands, it's the destruction of integrity and institutions and the coopting of them for political gain. Any watchdog without the balls to speak about obvious and open problems is a neutered bitch.

2 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

" molesting a mongrel "

Would there be a charge for " porking a pedigree " ??

The more interesting question is which charge would be more serious?

"But Bang-orn said that despite loving her dog very much she felt that he had to take some responsibility for the events as he had gone willingly to Chen each time."

Well, she loved him very much, but he loved him even more! 

Well, for once this is a complete true statement. Thailand has never had any commitment to combating human trafficking and never will.

2 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

So presumably you think that Brits should not pay any of the tolls on Autoroutes in mainland Europe when they take their car to the continent ?

Presumably the countries in Europe don't have a toll policy based on identification of routes most used by Brits...

3 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Excellent idea.  Up here in Udon Thani more and more vehicles from Laos can be seen, some I have noticed on a regular basis doing their weekly shop in Macro in Nong Khai or Tesco Lotus in Udon.   Seems only right that those that use the Thai infrastructure on a regular basis contribute something to it.  Perhaps just a fee payable at point of entry would suffice.  In cash of course to the immigration police !!

Yes, it's a very far-sighted move, similar to the way the new in-out rules basically now limit any expatriates in Laos to only two overland crossings per year. Before, most of them would make regular shopping trips across the border to Macro and various other shops in Nong Khai, Udon and Khon Kaen. Now they don't. Fortunately there's no more tearing up of the roads due to these callous shoppers. Just in case there still are, this new tax ought to put an end to it. Phew, another problem solved by the Junta!

5 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Am I the only one that finds it amusing that the Junta has had to turn to Thaksin's man, a co-founder of TRT and DPM under Thaksin to teach them a bit of Thaksinomics?

Nope, I'm pretty amused. I'm also amused that it's taken them three years to get around to thinking "maybe if we invest in the rural areas the people there might vote for the right party". Then of course they decide the way to do this is via State Enterprises. They just don't have the slightest idea, which is unsurprising because the only ones from rural areas the leaders of the military ever encounter are the ones they order about. Far as they're concerned the only words those folk know, or need to know, is "YES SIR!"

I think that must be a poor transliteration of the text. Surely it was the "Ban Phusao Police", no?

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

My experience in farming is to get exploited by the farmers who are forever complaining about prices and saying they are poor while having big houses and nice cars. I done quite a bit of backbreaking work in the tulips to earn some extra money. But I have seen that the younger farmers that innovated did better then those who did not. Here there are farmers that innovate and they do well. 

 

You keep talking about the rich and connect and stuff like that I am more a defender of the middle class I have nothing with the rich at all. Thaksin and his ilk are rich too.. they just feed a few scraps to the poor. I have always found it unfair that a voting block gets all the benefits while others don't and yes that includes a noodle shop. I feel its unfair that when a farmer fails (and fails fails fails fails and does not change) is helped but someone setting up a noodle shop or something else and fails has to shoulder the burden of failure him / herself. The fact that farmer families were cut up is sad but its just progress.. farming is the past (small scale like it is now). If things go well their kids will have it better. But by keeping the farmers small scale you keep the poverty and problems for generations to come.

 

As for the education system.. junta... PTP.. democrats.. they all failed. (YL failed even more with her tablet scam.. care to report on that one). Thailand is pumping in massive amounts of money and getting almost no good returns. You cant blame anyone. I will applaud Thaksin for his healthcare.. however nobody not PTP nor Democrats has ever provided enough funding for it. Its going totally wrong right now the money from the rice program would have been better spend on the health system benefiting everyone. 

 

I am against the army its budget rise and made that clear in the past, i put it in other topics too.. reason Thailand is not progressing is its corruption. Everyone in power wants a cut and the anti corruption agencies work to slow and are paper tigers. 

I understand your point about Dutch farmers, and it's relevant to many farmers in the other countries of the West. But isn't that the inevitable end result of your proposed solution? You support farmers to consolidate, move from small-scale farming to other non-agricultural jobs, support the ones who stay to modernize and increase/improve production and then they prosper and drive around in nice cars and live in big houses? And what happens then? They continue to dominate politics disproportionately because there are political parties who can take advantage of the rules to gain larger political share than would be justified by their population because they occupy much more land area physically. So your solution is somewhat a non-solution based on your own experience in your own country. 

Yes, I understand you're defending the middle class - but you're doing so at the expense of the majority who are the poor. The middle class only exist in the cities. We're seeing all sorts of environmental and social problems as a result of the increasing urbanization of the developing world. Your solution would exacerbate this unless you're talking somehow of changing industry and production to increase the amount that occurs in rural areas. Something like a "One Tambon One Product" type thing that might spur some investment and maintain non-farm value-added jobs in the rural areas so the migration doesn't occur. Let's see, who implemented that policy idea? Oh right, it was Thaksin again! That nefarious evil guy! He's so clever at manipulating the rural people by inventing new policies that the previous governments might well have done themselves if they'd cared even a little bit. But they never did. Same like the health care. Same like decentralizing power and budget to the Tambons so rural people could choose what they wanted to do with their share of tax dollars/revenues. 

As to your postulation that farmers have been allowed to "fail and fail and fail" and still get helped, this is not actually true. They've been allowed to do so a few times, but before they get helped the government gets overthrown and the Amart take over, and from that point on, you can forget about any support for rural Thailand. Oh, except for Southern Rubber farmers. They get helped over and over again even as they fail and fail and fail. Because, after all, they're OUR farmers! As to your noodle shop owners, observe how they're now trying to get all the vendors off the street? This is going to help them? Well, it will help one group - the better off people who actually own or can rent a shop. So again, you're going to help the better off segment of the poor (the smallest part) at the expense of the poorer part (the larger part).

Regarding education and what spending ought to have been done with the rice program, we're in agreement. But that's the point. There is no substantive improvement in these issues when the Amart are in power, hence they're not going to address these fundamental structural issues either. So what is their basis for support? If you're going to get useless incompetent government that enriches itself at the expense of the country, I'd as soon get the one that provides more benefit to the poorest people and has demonstrated that it can implement some positive policies for rural areas than one that has never done so despite having all the power, means and time to do so in the past repeatedly. And yes, watching the military go on a shopping spree at the luxury weapons mall while whining about the rice scheme must be very satisfying for you. 

I do not claim that Thaksin or any other elected government of the Red persuasion would be competent, un-corrupt or otherwise much better than the alternative. Just that it would move things along the eventual path where they would develop the institutions and democratic values that lead to that. By your own words you recognize that there is not a major difference or improvement in the ones we get otherwise. So why not let the majority rule?

On 6/17/2017 at 3:23 PM, Artisi said:

Tough titties, if standing as a witness for the likes of YL, expect to be looked at. 

So you're strongly for justice and equal and fair application of the law, no exceptions including the rich and powerful.  But you are fine with witness intimidation and ensuring that the odds are stacked against the person who is being prosecuted. No double standard there!

2 hours ago, robblok said:

In Vietnam and other countries they are farmers too.. but producing much more rice per rai and lower cost per rai. So the Thais are doing something wrong. YL her plan of just sending out money (and letting her minions steal from it) did not work and benefitted mainly the big rice producers.. not the smaller ones. If she was genuine then there would have been a maximum to be brought in so it would benefit the small farmers more. 

 

Anyway if the farmers won't change their methods and / or learn more then pumping in money time after time is not going to change a bit. Education is the key many farmers who have changed are doing well. Having read reports and news-articles many farmers just don't want to change its easier to get a handout.  

 

Its totally unfair that all that money is being spend on farmers while the whole of Thailand could have benefited if the 500 billion had gone into healthcare. Only reason the farmers get that money all the time is that they are a voting block. That is a big problem as they don't want to change (re educate do new stuff set up cooperatives ect) and they have power. I guess you would not mind it as if you were a taxpayer in your own country and the people in welfare would be the ones controlling the amount of money they got.. while not wanting to study to get a paying job.. and you as a taxpayer paying it all.

 

It just does not work like this and farmers should be forced to either study and apply new stuff or not get money. I am all for handing out loans without any interest (would be tricky to check it all) for new farm equipment and or bridging credits when they change the way they farm.

 

I grew up in a farming community in Holland I know a thing or 2 about farmers.. the old ones died out and went broke because they would not change the  younger and innovative ones grew and made money. 

 

Its totally unfair to help farmers all the time.. but not others.. if somchai starts a noodle shop and it goes bust.. too bad for him.. but a farmer gets the help all the time.... why.. voting block. 

So the decades of pretty much not helping farmers at all while the money flooded into Bangkok and into the coffers of the rich and connected didn't bother you despite the farmers being the major voting block. The farmers having to break up their families so that the parents migrated to Bangkok and the surrounding areas for factory jobs while their kids stayed back on the farm with the grandparents didn't bother you. Only when the major voting block finally unites and starts to direct the majority of funding to farmers, then it's "unfair" to help farmers all the time but not others. And if you think that money was going to help Somchai in his noodle shop, you're completely unaware of how the economy and politics work in Thailand. This is nothing more than hypocrisy. You know who brought in the closest thing they've had to universal healthcare? You got it - Thaksin. Despite the many decades in power, the Amart never managed to pull that off. Wonder why? You know who has been managing the education system in this country for decades? The same people. So you identify the farmers as having never been trained properly as the main issue (it's not, as you probably realize it's a multi-faceted and complex problem), you fail to note that the people whom they voted against had the power to change this but repeatedly did nothing about it for a long long time, then you place this unrealistic condition on top of the farmers as a basis for them receiving ANY money in future despite them being the major voting block. Nice. This is basically institutionalizing poverty and putting the blame for it on the rural poor.

While it's refreshing that someone on the other side would actually have some experience in farming, you would likely discover that farming in Holland and farming in Isarn are two completely different things. Perhaps you could provide these stupid farmers with the benefit of your experience? Fact is, if the Amart had bothered to do anything to improve the livelihoods or living conditions of the farmers, they'd have their votes and not have to continuously resort to seizing power via the military. Instead, they simply ignore them and continue to lecture them from on high, regularly interrupting their attempts to elect someone who will try to improve their situation. Was Yingluck a poor administrator and the rice scheme unsuccessful in achieving those goals? Seems so. But you know why nobody from the other side can point to their efforts and say "that's how you should have done it"? Because they never even tried.

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

Thailand is better off with this government, and those who have to wake up each day with bitterness on their mind should really seek happiness elsewhere.  I mean why waste your life being in a miserable place.

 

 

Where to start on the logic of this post? First, an unsubstantiated blanket statement, followed by a completely unrelated conclusion that anyone who might think differently is therefore "bitter" and thinks that being in Thailand is as a result "miserable".  

Actually, many of us of the opposing viewpoint to you and SpiderOrchid et al are quite happy living in or visiting Thailand and have their own sources of information that lead us to our own conclusions about the situation. I do strongly believe that the coup has moved Thailand backwards and only serves to prop up the old regime and perpetuate the same cycle that the country's been spiraling downwards within for 80+ years now. This does not mean however that I in any way admired Thaksin, or any of the other elected leaders. But that's part of the process of a fledgling democracy. If it's continually interrupted and power taken away arbitrarily and always by the same people and against the same side, there's no way forward other than the continuation of the cycle. I am happy to accept your (and his) arguments and observations, but I will debate them based on my own observations and understanding and without denigrating you as a basis for the argument. As far as arguments go, this one is rather lacking I'm afraid.

3 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I personally think that he General PM has done at least as good a job as the last two leaders

and I do not think that he is nearly as corrupt as the last two were. My wife is Thai and her family

in Thailand were no fans of the last two leaders.  The last two leaders were considered as very rich

Hi Sos. and of course most Thais know how corrupt they were.

Geezer

 

Your understanding of Thai politics and society is quite lacking. The Shins were in no way considered Hi-So, they're new money, not old.  If your wife and her family were "no fans of the last two leaders" then you already know that she would think highly of Prayut in comparison. That's pretty much the definition of the divide.

7 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

i just finished living in thailand for 10 years. i just left as i want my kids to be schooled in new zealand.

what is happening now in thailand effects me just as much, probably more than it does you as my family is half thai.  i am not speaking on their or any other thai persons behalf,  i never said i was. 

thousands of years of more history. no idea what that means.

still missing what you think i said that was so ridiculous. 

No, no, no, you don't understand. Only SpiderOrchid has the qualifications and experience to speak of what is real in Thailand, the rest of us know nothing. After all, he lives there! 

Despite the vast majority of the rural people having been terribly affected by the dreadful rice scam to the point of bankruptcy, for some reason there's a strong reluctance to allow these poor victims to express their anger and disappointment over who has betrayed them through the polls. Not only that, they're making damn sure that regardless of the poll results, the Army and old regime will still retain control. Why is that, do you suppose? Surely given your knowledge that the rural poor are ready to rise up and avenge the terrible hardships inflicted upon them by Thaksin and his evil family you would support an election as soon as possible, no?

32 minutes ago, sn1per said:

 

I can see where the catching foreign men comes from, but with the count at 5000 the keeping don't  seem to be working

Who needs to keep them? Best of all is to have a string of suckers preferably located well away from each other in different countries who come on a 2-3 week vacation to be with their "one and only" and then keep the rent flowing every month thereafter from each and every one of 'em. Haven't you read TV much? You'll hear plenty of stories from the Betrayed in here, but they're the lucky ones who don't do the Pattaya Plunge in response.

59 minutes ago, robblok said:

Im talking about friends of YL because that is what the topic is about. I don't think the other side is clean. I commented on how bad it was about the PM his brother and nephew in the past. So no both sides are corrupt and need to be punished if they are.

And your right whoever is in power goes after the other. Its far from perfect. But better this as that they all get away.

Doesn't do a thing to move the country forward, and your solution of a magical judiciary somehow rising above it all to police it is a fantasy. Why not ask the question "why have the yellows not managed to win an election for 16 years and why can't they accept majority rule?"  This is why democracy, however flawed, is better than all the other systems. You at the very least have to appeal to the most people to win. If you can't do that, you need to change your policies or make your case to the contrary to win support. When corruption is an accepted thing that will happen regardless, it's obvious that a government selected by the majority (and, it is noteworthy, by the poorer part of the population) should be allowed to be in power. The endless cycle of coups abrogating elected power retards any political progress, however distasteful that it may appear when implemented by not particularly democratic and grossly corrupt person like Thaksin. 

The current government had a chance to do what they said, rise above partisan politics, demonstrate that there could be government with clean hands (as has actually happened once, the Anand Panyarachun government installed after the fall of Suchinda), prove that the judiciary would treat the rich exactly the same as the poor, and reach out to and engage with the disaffected majority. Instead, it's business as usual, with the Elite taking control and governing for their people just as they accused all the others of doing. How you see this as progress is beyond me.

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

The system is a joke that is why they don't have to worry. Money talks mate and those friends of YL got enough money to either buy people off or get real good lawyers. Unless of course the corruption is too easy to prove. But if they leave the country they are as untouchable as red bull and Thaksin who is also on the run and even convicted.

Okay, we agree the system is a joke and the rich, connected, and corrupt have no fear of it and can just go on the lam whenever they like. But why is it you're only identifying "friends of YL" as the issue? Do you think the current mob are clean? Do you think the previous one that Thaksin replaced was? Do you think the one that will replace this one eventually will be?

I think you'd likely agree with me that the answer is that justice is blind here except for one colour, green. If you've got money, you're in the clear unless someone else with similar money and power decides to have a go at you. But does that really remedy the situation? This is my point here. When you go after YL, you should have more than enough evidence if she was so corrupt that you have no reason to intimidate her witnesses. All that shows is that the courts are biased and the prosecution likely malicious or predetermined in its outcome. This does not in any way advance the cause of justice in Thailand, it just sows the seeds for the revenge prosecution whenever the other side gets back in power.

31 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Tough titties, if standing as a witness for the likes of YL, expect to be looked at. 

Right, so let's abandon all pretense of there being any kind of impartial justice in Thailand, after all, who needs that anyway? So long as the side I'm on wins, I'm okay with that? Of course, I'm sure you won't be on here whining when it is your sides' turn at the dock.

Remember, one of the many rationalizations for the coup was that justice was being corrupted, that Thaksin was using the courts to unfairly prosecute his opponents, attack the free press, etc. Pot? Meet kettle.

18 hours ago, robblok said:

Now would they would only have to worry if they are corrupt would they not. If they are corrupt are they good witnesses ? 

 

Your explanation is good too.. but again.. if they are not corrupt nothing will turn up will there so no worries. 

The issue to me would be "were these people under investigation prior to being named as witnesses to Yingluck?" If the answer is "no", then we have a real issue here. Who would volunteer to be a witness when there is a clear link to being identified as a witness and being investigated for corruption? It's a deliberate tactic in that case of witness intimidation. And this is regardless as to whether there is any corruption or not.

2 minutes ago, thaiman said:

The UN is a waste of time and money.  It's a worthless organization controlled by you know whose.

I don't know who. Who? 

I'm sure you must be someone who know what they're talking about, because, you know, the UN is such a homogenous entity. Do share your vast experience.

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Legalizing drugs is not the answer, unless the government is will to put

up with a 1000 folds increase in death, crimes sickness and violence

due to free and legal  use of drugs......

Yeah! Just like in Portugal where they actually did this! And look what happened!

The complete opposite of what you just claimed.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-happened-when-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-2016-3

3 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

whole thing is a farce. A political coop attempt. Now Dems have resorted to shooting at Republicans while they play softball. Yet not a peep of sorrow from leadership. 

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/06/14/pelosi-on-shooting-on-days-like-today-there-are-no-democrats-or-republicans-only-americans-united/

Oh, look at that, a complete lie fabricated by a Trumpette (Note where this article is from, Breitbart. Care to challenge the source?). How surprising...

5 hours ago, tomwct said:

I imagine Muehler will be forced to resign because of his close relationship to Comey!  The good news is Putin has offered Comey an invitation to move to Russia! Go President Trump! Making America Great Again one day at a time!

Resigning means that person accepts that they have done something wrong and then acts accordingly. This is very unlikely as we're talking about a career law enforcement officer who has basically spent his entire life enforcing the rules under both Republicans and Democrats without problem in very trying circumstances. That's why he was selected, because he has integrity and the respect and trust of both sides. Oh, sorry, I better explain. Integrity means the "quality of being honest and having strong moral principles." Just thought I'd clarify as it's probably a concept with which you're unfamiliar. 

Two questions:

1. Could you please give us a date/era/administration that you keep referring to when America was "Great"? This will help us Libtards out when we hear the slogan which frankly confuses us because it's never been made clear as to when/what you're referring to.

2. I presume that you are a Conservative? How do you feel about the Russians having such a strong relationship with the President and having his son try to set up a secret back channel of communications with them? How do you feel about his Campaign Advisor being an Advisor to the Pro-Russian side of the Ukraine? How do you feel about the many ties between the Russian Mafia and the President and his family? How do you feel about the President's refusal to back Article 5 of the NATO agreement at the same time that Russia is meddling in American, French and British elections and is building up military forces on the borders of the Baltic States and Ukraine?  Ol' Dutch is spinning in his grave at such a speed that he alone could power half of the USA if you attached a turbine to it. Oh, sorry, bad idea, better to wait for him to metamorphose into hydrocarbons and burn him...

But yes, it's always a good thing when Presidents are being investigated for Obstruction of Justice and being influenced by your traditional enemy. Great again!