JCauto

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

I think some variation on this was tried before and initiated the Indian Rebellion of 1857.

 

Probably totally unworkable now without incurring the displeasure of the limp-wristed, bleeding heart, liberal, namby pamby, civil rights brigade.

 

I had an interesting albeit bar-stool conversation last night while waiting for the rain to finish. Apparently some of the then UK government's 'special forces' employed during the Ulster 'troubles' involved simply walking up to the door of a know IRA leader, sympathizer or sh!t stirrer, knocking and when they opened the door, emptying all bullets into their chest, walking away, getting in the car and driving away. Black balaclava, etc..

 

Whodunnit?

As a member of the "limp-wristed, bleeding heart, liberal, namby pamby, civil rights brigade", allow me to respond. Yes, clearly a strong strategy supported by historical evidence of success. If at first you don't succeed...mind you, without that we'd have not gotten the magnificent episode of Flashman that was based on it.

Second, why is it that some idiot with a hammer sends you manly "shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out" conservatives into such a tizzy? We Liberals recognize that these <deleted> are a nuisance but we're made of sterner stuff, and can't be so easily manipulated as to give up our principles on a whim. It's the manly men who go all a-flutter every time some suicidal mental case decides to take someone down with them. Oh, sorry, some suicidal Muslim mental case that is. White lunatics are exceptions of course, nothing to see there, move along.

Grow a pair, you snowflake conservative pussies.

Being an MMA fan, count me impressed by the two fat guys going at it on the left. Not in terms of technique, but in most pro fights between big fat guys, they punch themselves out in a far shorter time period than that. Those two were still throwing down well into it when by all rights they should have been staring at each other with hands on knees completely out of puff.

36 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

The spokesman also insisted that the NCPO was working in accordance with the law and the Constitution. 

 

 

Said with a straight face.

Well, to be fair, it's true! Once they scrapped the constitution and rewrote the laws in their favour...

Only a matter of time before they lose their temper and start calling people "stupid buffalo" for not being sufficiently happy under the yoke. 

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Don't disagree with your sentiments.

 

Accept it's not democracy, and can never be, unless there is a robust justice system, which operates independently of government; and robust checks & balances.

 

The UK and US, arguable the oldest and most accountable, of democratic models still have issues, as we are currently seeing. In SEA many nations suffer from a sort of democracy which ranges from family controlled, such as Singapore and more recently Cambodia, to one party states a la China and Vietnam to family dictatorship in NK,  Not much democracy in reality whether elections are held or not.

 

Here, one side may well be able to call in the military whereas the other are aligned to the police. Neither, no matter how they came to power have tremendous track records in delivery step changes for the masses. And neither are interested in promoting the essentials of democracy such as free speech, robust free media, real accountability and transparency and a robust justice system. In the 17 years of this century can you name where any of those areas have improved?

 

Chaturon is perfectly within his rights to challenge the performance of the current government. But, equally, is then open to questions concerning the performance of all other governments this century to compare performance, and as a former Minister, his own.

 

 

Our views aren't very different, but I would emphasize that only one side resorts to military coups, and does so repeatedly and regardless of where the side who were elected got elected from. I don't believe there's ever been a police-led coup in Thailand, and wonder whether it's even feasible logistically and militarily. That in itself says pretty much everything in terms of the current leadership and its predecessors points of view in regard to democracy - it's an annoyance that one must put up with to a certain point whereupon one retakes control and restores the "natural" order.

I would also disagree in respect to the track record on delivery step changes for the masses - in my opinion this is indeed the primary reason that Thaksin became such a villain to the powers-that-be in stark contrast to the previous ousted leaders. His decentralization of power to the Tambon councils and governors and populist health policy were two examples of fundamental and radical change that directly provided benefits and a higher degree of control to the rural people. That will not stand with the current junta or their backers.

Your points on progress on fundamental democratic and justice institutions and Chaturon are agreed upon.

28 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Neither do many politicians! 

 

The only common trait is the increases in wealth!

The only difference is that one gets to choose the first, and can replace them at regular intervals if they don't perform according to the wishes of the majority, whereas the others...

Just to reiterate so that any discussion doesn't get derailed - yes, Thaksin was a corrupt and autocratic scumbag. Yes, that describes most of the political classes when they get into power in Southeast Asia especially if they're a bit cleverer than most. But my point, and that of many at the time, was that institutions don't develop if they're never allowed to actually govern or even mis-govern. Whenever one side or another can just call in the boys in green whenever they like, there's no need to attempt to participate in democracy in a real sense, it's just another tool in the elites' endless fight over the majority of the goodies. 

If there were an actual belief in democracy and institutions, then this mob would have dispensed with Thaksin and gotten out of there quickly. Which has happened exactly zero times out of 16+. Which tells you all you need to know about the democratic and idealistic views of the current crew and their forbears (whom all shared pretty much the same viewpoint and methods). 

11 hours ago, robertson468 said:

Have to be fair, I believe the main achievement of the coupe was to stop what was becoming potentially a civil war in Thailand with the frequent murders of the different party members and what appeared to have become outrageous levels of corruption.  No doubt many Forum Members will have their own views as to what the catalyst for that is, ranging from one individual, to the culture of Thailand still going through the stages of development and being likened a little to the wild west.  As for this Gentleman's criticism of the Junta in saying they have achieved little for the Country, I would suggest that he, as the Ex-Minister for Education is very much a case of  "the pot calling the kettle black". 

At least you have the personal integrity to admit that you were one of those who originally supported the coup and provide some reasonable explanation of why you supported it. 

I don't believe the situation was as dire in terms of the potential for civil war as you believed it to be, and if it was, that was simply a case of those who have had power for the last 100 years wishing to retain it at all costs even if it means war. Nor were there frequent murders of different party members - who are you referring to? As to corruption, this old canard was the main excuse that I recall being used as justification for the coup, along with the usual discrediting of the vote of the rural "buffalo" having been "bought". Fortunately for those on your side, this point has been proven beyond a doubt since the current regime have been as clean as a whistle and have put in place the sort of transparency and open government that will ensure that corruption is a thing of the past in the Land of Smile.

It was never about corruption, that's widely accepted as the way things work in Southeast Asia. It was about WHO was getting access to that government firehose of baht, and the direction it was pointing. Anyway, as noted, I do appreciate that you're willing to stand up and discuss the issue from your perspective and in a reasonable manner. 

4 hours ago, Becker said:

And I believe you're wrong. IMO most of us were able to understand more or less right away that coup/coup attempt # 20, led by an ultra-nationalist and ultra-royalist and supported by the likes of a certain robber rubber baron, was never going to change anything but the snouts in the trough.

Obviously and unfortunately we were right. What a shocker!!!

 

WRT the majority of TVF members living in urban areas (if that's true at all) that's definitively not an obstacle for empathizing with people who have always been marginalized by an entrenched elite.

Too bad that it was an a-hole like Thaksin that woke them up and not a Gandhi type. But even so despite the junta's desperate efforts they will never be able to turn the clock back to the "good old days".

"Som nam naa" comes to mind.

Well, I engaged in several of those forum threads and, while the memory gets foggier as I get fogey-er, I'm pretty sure I was in the enlightened minority at the time. And I don't share your experience in respect to those who live in urban areas and their views on the Reds which I found hopelessly uninformed. 

However, we are in agreement about the events, so no worries. Would love to hear from some of the Junta-backers who have come to realize they were duped. I expect we'll see a similar trajectory with the Trump-ers, they'll just get increasingly quiet until they consider changing their user names to delete their previous posting history.

7 hours ago, chainarong said:

With due respect Chaturon, how come it has taken you all this time to work out that the Junta and the coup are a waste of time , nearly every member on this forum could have told you that right from the beginning, besides that , as I am on an informal information session, you will also  notice that Prayut and Co are now feathering their own nest and the question that needs to be asked , why is the junta getting friendly with China and giving the west the big finger, now that isn't hard to work out either...........................   

This is, with all due respect, a mischaracterization of this Forum. When it happened, I'd say the majority of posters here were all in favour of it, being the necessary medicine to rid the country of the horrible scourge of Thaksin. This was not surprising, in my opinion, given that the majority of posters live in major cities hence have little contact with the Red faction, understanding of the grievances of the rural poor, the domination of the economy by Chinese Thai or the building of a nation through a series of convenient myths purporting to represent history.

11 hours ago, darksidedog said:

And how exactly is the average person supposed to know if by clicking "like" he is going to piss someone else off, or be breaking a crazy law?

I bet the entire world is laughing at these moronic clowns.

Don't be absurd! The entire world hasn't heard about them yet, so only those who have are laughing. Oh, other than the Junta cheerleaders - where are they now? Shouldn't they be proudly extolling the virtues of the generals and the start of "thought crime"?

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Read the history.

No need to - I was in Thailand when it happened and remember it well. I don't recall a single press report or claim by anyone that the driver was "mistaken for Abhisit" by the mob or that there was a plan revealed that showed an intention to assassinate Abhisit. Perhaps you can point us all to a source? Oh, sorry, I mean one that doesn't originate in your imagination.

19 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

And you would include dragging abhisits driver out of his car and severely beating him so he needed several years to recover to be legitimate.

 

Not forgetting that the udd/red mob concerned actually through abhisit was the person in the car and initially thought the person they dragged out was abhisit and were obviously aiming to get him out of the car and in a mob activity kill him, is that legitimate?

Right...because who in Thailand knows what that shadowy figure Abhisit looks like anyway? And I'm sure his driver is the spitting image of the light-skinned Etonian.

So you make an absurd postulation which has no evidence whatsoever and then question whether the absurd action that didn't happen was legitimate. Uh, okay. I believe this is known as a "straw man" argument.

Hmmm....people questioning our latest dodgy deals and the need for Yellow Submarines...I know! Let's blame Thaksin and the Reds! Errr...when was the last time we can blame them for something? 

I look forward to the Airport Shutdown trial. In my next life.

11 hours ago, ubonr1971 said:

Sheryl's previous comments on this thread re poor medical standards in cambodia are accurate. My wife is a dentist and treats many cambodian patients visiting thailand with dental problems caused by work originally done in cambo. She is shocked by the number of problems that she has to fix on a weekly basis. OP if you move to cambodia you are strongly recommended to return to thailand for any routine or emergency dental treatment!

Like everything, there's a broad spectrum of services, ranging from ultra-modern dental clinics with every device yet invented to roadside shacks with openings between the slats of wood and some "dentist" with a painted sign showing some poor victim having a tooth yanked out. Previously I would always get my dental done in Bangkok, but now I do it in Phnom Penh where the cost is cheaper and the quality equivalent. I presume most people on an English-language forum would be smart enough not to go to the roadside butchers.

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

So all the farang whinges who thought this wasn't a good idea can now eat humble pie because news has come out that the food stalls are now going to be allowed but regulated better, safer, and allow less footpath crowding. 

555555! You're new here, I take it?

Allow me to enlighten you how it works. Anything that is done here is done for one reason, and that's money. Perhaps the BMA or someone else is horning in on someone else's territory, or they've decided to up the rents and were getting too much resistance, but there's never been anything they do here for those reasons. Follow the baht.

On 2/16/2017 at 1:27 AM, Bassosa said:

 

What's your opinion on all the people in the blog post comments and their, quite terrifying, experiences?

 

They're making it up?

 

 

 

 

Entitled backpackers who wouldn't hesitate to spice up their stories to gain traffic. Klueless Kate and Muppet Mark. Their observations on the local people and culture demonstrate that they don't know what's going on around them, hence they'd make perfect targets for the ill-intentioned.

On 9/2/2014 at 2:32 AM, davidst01 said:

Hi mike2011 do you own a bar or do you have a vested interested in snookeyville? It sounds like you do.

I was sober and got whacked by 3 guys on a beach at 5pm trying to rob me. I ended up having a 7 hour operation on my face.

It is a dodgy place. All you have to do is to google it and look for evidence...

Yes davidst01, he owns a bar - pretty much all of us who haven't been mugged do. In fact, it's one of our sources of income, robbing patrons after they leave for home.

Look, I get it, you had a bad experience and got robbed. It's unfortunate and no doubt quite unpleasant, especially if you had to get a 7-hour operation on your face. Yet there are thousands of people who have gone to SHV and never even had someone be rude to them, never mind threaten them. I have been dozens of times, no problem ever. Mind you, I've been all over Southeast Asia and never have been threatened or had a fight or got robbed or anything else of the sort. It does seem to happen to some few unfortunate souls who for whatever reason are more prone to this. Perhaps they might ask themselves "why?" if it has happened more than once. 

And I'll admit that my being a large farang doesn't hurt in this regard, but I've seen more than enough videos of large farang who thought they'd be able to crack a few Thai skulls who discover that being Billy Big <deleted> doesn't work out so well when the opponents don't care to engage one on one. My MO is being nice to people and speaking their language, it's never failed me yet.

2 minutes ago, 4737 Carlin said:

Says the one who lives in Europe. Why are you even on this forum if you don't live out here ? I'm not trying to change people's impressions and I'm not making things up - just telling it how it is. The original OP was asking about moving to Cambodia from Thailand. I've lived in both countries for years so am qualified to give an opinion. As for Cambodia being a dump - a blind man would know it (due to the smell).

I've lived in both places almost certainly for longer than you and speak both languages. Oh, and my eyesight isn't the greatest but I got glasses to correct it. Cambodia is paradise on earth. Okay, now your brilliant argument has been completely destroyed using your own logic. Quod Erat Demonstratum!

On 3/29/2017 at 7:08 AM, tuktuktuk said:

When I dream about a single payer healthcare system I imagine somebody like Nancy Pelosi being in charge and the sweet dream turns into a long national nightmare.  We'll just have another tax like social security and medicaid that those idiots (dems and republicans alike) can dip into to pay for all sorts of other things that both you and I would agree are foolish. Maybe those other countries don't elect idiots like her and her fellow congressmen.

Well, that's kind of my point. Of course our politicians are a bunch of idiots too. But it still works. 

The thing that would likely do in an effort for single payer over there is the lobbying and corruption from the private sector that distorts public policy.

3 minutes ago, 4737 Carlin said:

 

Are you referring to Aeon Mall ? Have you seen the prices of the goods in that place ? In many cases they're double what you'd pay in Paris or London. The third world with first world (or higher) prices. The same stores as Thailand ? I don't see a Big C or Tesco Lotus for example. Perhaps you can tell me where I can do my shopping for the same prices I'd pay in Thailand ? The filthy market at Kandal is where I buy my fruit and veg. The prices are nearly double what you'd pay at Klongtoey market in Bangkok. 

 

 

The long term expats who frequent that forum are, in the main, sarcastic bored alcoholics who like to pretend they prefer Cambodia to Thailand. They're lying to themselves.

 

 

I'm aware this guy is trolling but his underlying observations are correct. The effects of killing the entire, educated middle class are still evident everywhere here. The stupidity of most of these people, even the rich greedy ones, is incredibly obvious to anyone who's lived amongst them. 

As I think was made clear in my post, Cambodia is not as developed and easy as Thailand, and older people and those who aren't accustomed to rougher places wouldn't find it as pleasant although it is developing at a fast pace. Seems you're in that category, so no doubt you're greatly enjoying your experience as evinced by your cogent observations about both the local people and the long-term expatriates. I know quite a number of intelligent Cambodians, at many different levels of society. Seems you haven't connected much with them otherwise you would surely know this. Or perhaps you are just one of those curmudgeons who like to move to a place and complain about everything. Who knows?  

7 hours ago, 4737 Carlin said:

After living here in Phnom Penh for a few years I have to agree with the above blogger. This guy's blog is also the most accurate assessment of Cambodia, and Cambodians, that I've found on the web:

 

http://www.travelingmark.com/cambodia/cambodia-laziest-nation-in-the-world/

55555555! Oh no! Not Traveling Mark too! 555555555555!

Yes, there's nothing like young backpackers who speak not a word of the local language to provide acute observations and understanding of the local conditions.

8 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Below is from a blogger who loved Cambodia and has no axe to grind as I am accused of being unfair or creating hysteria. Please read.

 

This is a fair analysis by an independent traveler from the USA both in 2010 and then more recently and she covers a number of tourist visited areas. I suppose it really is down to the person who is traveling themselves,but I totally relate to what she says.

 

 

http://www.adventurouskate.com/cambodia-has-changed-and-not-for-the-better/

5555555555! This classic nitwit? 555555555555!

Go to the "other forum" on Cambodia and search for this clueless charmer and you'll see what the long-term expats think about her observations.

11 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

The only decent store i seen in Cambodia there were 3 taxfree shops at the airport of PP on my way out.

I take it you haven't been to the massive new shopping malls built by the same people who build them in Thailand in the same style with the same stores?

What a dilemma - Scouse123 has made a perfect advertisement for stemming the tide of expats flowing from Thailand into Cambodia, and all I have to do is ignore the numerous problems in his post and our little paradise will remain so for perhaps a little bit longer. But then I realized that there were likely some very good folk for whom Thailand is becoming untenable who would benefit from a more nuanced perspective so I thought I'd post anyway. 

"Behind the Khmer smile" - this is to me the single biggest problem I have with his post. The Cambodian people are by far THE biggest reason for moving to Cambodia as opposed to Thailand. I lived in Thailand for several years, and speak, read and write the language, much of which has to do with having lived as a volunteer working in Isarn. While one can easily become friendly with Thai people, that friendship can only get so close, before one hits an impenetrable and impassable wall beyond which one cannot progress. I found this to be the case in relationships with women as well. The Cambodians are by far the most straightforward people that I have worked with in Southeast Asia. I was never sure of what was really going on in my work dealings because of the Thai way of smiling and saying whatever was convenient or easy such that appearances were maintained and internal agendas were unaffected. This is not the MO in Cambodia - I was shocked by the things people would discuss openly about the management of the ministry and other goings-on almost as soon as I arrived. This is perhaps why people perceive Cambodia as being far more corrupt than Thailand - nobody makes any effort to hide it or pretend that something completely different is going on. I find the openness quite refreshing.  Speaking of which...

"As regards to government, it is fast becoming an autocratic state with Hun Sen at the helm. his immediate family and ex- Khmer rouge cronies are all in any positions that matter to keep the crooked clock ticking, A judicial system that does not function and an Army used  solely to repress the people and cripple any dissent." Anyone contrasting Thailand with Cambodia who writes a sentence like this clearly hasn't the slightest idea about what's going on in Thailand or simply doesn't care about it because they live in Bangkok and don't have a clue about what the MAJORITY of the population believes, feels and experiences on a day-to-day basis. The only thing that's made Thaivisa sufferable is that the hordes of sycophants who praised the Junta have now properly <deleted> now that what we all knew would happen has.

Garbage - yes, there's more garbage in the major cities. On the other hand, they actually collect it and transport it to a landfill now, so it's getting better. 

Roads and Infrastructure - spoken like someone who hasn't left Phnom Penh. The roads to the northwest, south, southeast and northeast are all pretty good and you'll have no problem whatsoever traveling from Phnom Penh to any of the provinces. Intra-provincial roads are pretty basic, but you can still get anywhere you want in a 4x4 or motorcycle or the preferred vehicle of rural Cambodia, the jacked-up Mad Max Toyota Camry.

Hospitals - when I had my kids (2000 and prior) pretty much anyone who could afford it went to Bangkok to give birth. Nowadays the majority of expats who can afford it give birth in Cambodia. Phnom Penh has several hospitals that are offshoots of Bangkok Hospital and other Thai places, and they're getting to the point where they're sufficient for emergencies and reasonable for other stuff so long as you've sussed out a doctor you can trust. There have always been foreign clinics for relatively minor problems or triage.

Crime and Police - no difference except that the Cambodian cops are much easier to deal with. This crime epidemic that Scouse123 speaks of is news to me and my many friends who live there. Every person I know who's been robbed on the street has had it happen late at night while drunk. Surprise. There are house break-ins too of course, but most places are protected like a medieval castle so as long as you take reasonable precautions, not a big deal.

Sihanoukville - to those who live there, it's paradise by the sea. To the rest of us, it's Shitsville. To each their own. I would agree that if the coast is your thing, you're better off in Thailand.

Lowlifes and Fugitives - yes, you will meet a much more colourful and interesting bunch of expats generally, as Cambodia is not so gentrified as Thailand and attracts a rougher  and readier crowd of people. If your preference is old men whinging about anything and everything, you should definitely stay in Thailand.

Education standards - who would send their kids to a Cambodian school? Who would do so in Thailand? If you have a family you either have the money to send them to an international school (there are several, some of which are fine), educate them at home or are irresponsible.

"It is NOT, as many say, Thailand 30 years ago. It is a god forsaken place where the greedy filth in authority are stealing any aid given by the EU, China and Japan. The poor as usual bear the brunt and are not in a strong enough position to do anything. Hun Sen was not elected as the best leader,he was placed there before the exodus by the Vietnamese as a ' puppet regime ' subservient to Vietnam and has spent  his time filling his pockets.

As regards to government, it is fast becoming an autocratic state with Hun Sen at the helm. his immediate family and ex- Khmer rouge cronies are all in any positions that matter to keep the crooked clock ticking, A judicial system that does not function and an Army used  solely to repress the people and cripple any dissent."

Where does one even start on this? You know you're writing in a Thai forum, correct? If you don't see a parallel between Hun Sen and, er, someone else whose name I probably can't even write without having my post removed, I don't know what to say. As to the "Vietnam Puppet" argument, well, you clearly haven't a clue about Cambodia's politics either.

To summarize, I'd say that Cambodia is NOT as easy as Thailand in terms of a place to live or work. The material comforts are not as prevalent although they're starting to get that way, and comparing Cambodia in 1993 to the Cambodia of today shows an unbelievable amount of progress. The local expat community is NOT anywhere near as old as that in Thailand, and most there haven't moved there to retire, hence for those in Thailand who are looking for easy and quiet comfort, you should probably stay. On the other hand, if you don't mind a bit of a mess here and there, and you enjoy life being real and you having a connection to it, there's not much comparison for me. Cambodia every day and twice on Sundays. And don't get me wrong, I like Thailand fine. In fact, I'd probably move back to Thailand as opposed to Cambodia simply because I'm getting on a bit and so am looking more towards the comfortable. But when I do live in Thailand, I always enjoy my trips back to Cambodia (or Laos) for the contrast and getting back to  a closer connection to life.

7 hours ago, wavemanwww said:

Better than the bullshit Yellow/ Red corrupt bulsht parties and that would not be hard to beat their maximium corruption or have YOU been in a comma for many years?

Well, the thing is that those guys won elections so despite their faults, they were the chosen representatives of the people at the time. These guys came in on the BASIS that they were needed to clean things up from these corrupt guys. Then of course they just keep inventing new reasons why they continue to stay, and of course the corruption merry-go-round continues unabated.  Or have you been in a "comma" for the entire time this group's been in power?

That's the difference.

It's so good to see justice now that the good people are in charge and all the bad people have been removed from the government. I just knew that exorcising the Thaksin demon would sort everything out! Hey, where's djjamie and the rest of the cheerleaders, surely they want to crow about how they were right all along?