MisterFingers

The group was arrested at the Suchart Apartments in Central Pattaya following a lengthy investigation into the group who were suspected of selling the drugs from their apartment.

Bullshit. Someone ratted them out, either someone who had it in for one of them or a cutthroat competitor.

The police are saying "lengthy investigation" to make themselves look good and protect the informant.

For those who mearly express sypathy - i am sure it is only lip service and it hasnt put you off your dinner!

If more people expressed anger/outrage at the criminal behaviour of parents allowing thier kids to have motorcycles, then perhaps this boys life wouldnt have ended so tragically. Sympathy expressed by those not in the slightest affected means nothing and serves no purpose other than to satisfy the voyeristic tendancys of the self rightious

Did you get lost somewhere? I was arguing against the guy who said the boy desrved to die.

You've got a problem with people who offer sympathy in a time of tragedy?

It's a gesture of humanity. A good will gesture.

Sorry you're such a bitter, hateful person.

I am also sorry that you cant accept that it is wrong and irresponsible to give children motorbikes.

I said before, "I don't disgree with you." Can't you read?

Once and for all, I agree that it is wrong and irresponsible to give children motorbikes.

My arguments above were against the notion that the poor kid derserved to die like a serial killer deserves to die.

Why can't you understand the simplest thing?

For those who mearly express sypathy - i am sure it is only lip service and it hasnt put you off your dinner!

If more people expressed anger/outrage at the criminal behaviour of parents allowing thier kids to have motorcycles, then perhaps this boys life wouldnt have ended so tragically. Sympathy expressed by those not in the slightest affected means nothing and serves no purpose other than to satisfy the voyeristic tendancys of the self rightious

Did you get lost somewhere? I was arguing against the guy who said the boy desrved to die.

You've got a problem with people who offer sympathy in a time of tragedy?

It's a gesture of humanity. A good will gesture.

Sorry you're such a bitter, hateful person.

What if he hadn't noticed it? Would that then be stealing or not?

Still not stealing. A mistake that didn't get caught. Not a deliberate act of stealing.

What if I remove your wallet from your pocket, taked out a couple of thousand Baht, and replace the wallet and you don't notice?

This is a deliberate act of stealing. i.e., Your intention is to steal. Criminal intent and a criminal act.

Not stealing by your own judgement, case closed m'lud.

My judgement, and the judgment of the police, lawmakers, governments, and the general public of Thailand, Cambodia, Canada, the US, the Netherlands, England, France, every single country in the world with no exception.

Calculation errors get made every minute, maybe even every second in the world. It's what happens when the mistake is caught that determines whether or not it's stealing.

Imagine your wife/daughter/son called you from the police station saying they were charged with theft for ringing up the wrong total.

I'm sorry, but this argument is just ridiculous.

Today I went to carrefour pattaya for shopping and among the items I bought were some bananas wich were priced at 29 baht.At the check out however they charged 54 baht,which I noticed before the total was calculated and notified the cashier.After some discussion they agreed that they priced the item wrong and agreed to correct the price to 29 baht with which I was satisfied.Next a superior to the cashier made a recalled sales bill on which the bananas were charged 29 baht and I paid the grand total.While I was walking to the car I checked the bill again and noticed that instead of correcting the price on the bill they just added the 29 baht to the total.So at that time Carrefour was actually stealing 54 baht from me.I went back to the cashier who called that same superior again and they wanted to give me back 54 baht.However at that time I wasn't satisfied anymore with the practices and asked to speak with the manager.They lead me to the customer service where I spoke with another thai lady and who I aked to getthe item free this time but the only thing they offered was giving me back 54 baht.I told them that by charging me for an item I didn't buy (there were 2 times bananas on the bill ) they had stolen money from me.

They simply said it was a mistake and no further compensation would be made.

I agree the wrong pricing was a mistake but charging for an item which you don't buy is is a criminal offence.

I know this is all about peanuts but it is the principle that counts.

If I was to take an 54 baht item from carrefour without paying for it,carrefour would sure call the police which would result in a police report and probably a courtcase if I won't settle the case.If convicted,even for 54 baht,as a foreigner you will be deported from thailand after a few days in jail.

So that is why I ask your advice for the next steps to take as I take this offence serious because if you take something from carrefour you are in the wrong but they can do it without any consquences.

What happened, was they corrected the price of the bananas but then forgot to deduct what they had originally charged you for them.

Mistakes get made in the business of retail, sometimes in favour of the customer (undercharging), and sometimes not (overcharging).

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been a recipient of both.

A mistake was made. When you notified them of the mistake, they gave you your money back. That is not stealing.

It's not stealing in Thailand, not in the US, not at the North Pole, not anywhere.

It's not stealing!

Got that?

Good, because my advice based on that is to drop this and forget about it.

If you can't do that, then simply don't shop there anymore if that'll help set your mind at ease.

But this is the most severe action you should take.

Guns, handled correctly, are perfectly safe. ditto motorbikes.

Of course you can make comparisons between guns and motorbikes. I can make several.

That wasn't my point.

This guy said it in the same breath as saying the kid deserved what he got, chalking one up for "Karma".

You're right PhilHarries, but I think bluelotus and I were so shocked at the sentiment expressed in this thread, that I for one forgot to pay my respect.

Rest In Peace

DOING WHAT OTHERES DO DOESNT MAKE IT ANY LESS DANGEROUS - OR LEATHAL. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY VERY UNFORTUNATE. BUT ANYONE WITH A LOGICAL BRAIN CAN SEE WHAT IS MEANT BY THE GUN ANALOGY. GIVING A MOTORBIKE TO A 15 YEAR OLD KID IS THE SAME AS GIVING HIM A LEATHAL WEAPON I.E. - A GUN . IT IS RUSSIAN ROULETTE TO USE YET ANOTHER GUN ANALOGY. GUNS ARE DANGEROUS IN THE WRONG HANDS AS ARE MOTORBIKES - THEY ARE NOT TOYS.

IF YOU GIVE YOUR UNDERAGE CHILD A MOTORBIKE, THEN YOU MUST BEAR THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT MAY HAPPEN. CHILDREN ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE - THEY ARE CHILDREN.

I don't disagree with you.

But let's talk about the degree of danger here.

I was riding a dirt bike when I was as young as 12 years old.

I wasn't doing this on a regular highway, but I was fully capable of controlling the bike.

I don't recall any news story of a 15 year old killing someone with his motorbike.

And yet I see them riding every day when I'm in Pattaya.

This "motorbike as a gun" analogy was ridiculous because of the difference in the degree of danger.

There's a difference between ridng a motorbike from point A to B, and pointing a gun a shooting.

Please try to see that.

For a guy to say that a 15 year old who has died, derserved it for riding a motorbike is extremely callous and insensitive.

This was a tragedy. I don't even want to think about what kind of person can be satisfied with this tragedy.

That was the reason for my post.

I am glad there was a good samaritan around to save the guy, although I do believe it's a persons right to end their life if they chose too. Preferably it would be because there simply was nothing to look forward to and that a person was facing either a degenerative disease or no hope of recovery.

I have no plans to stay around if I get a debilitating illness in my elder years--and can't enjoy some quality of life. Basically, I say that, but I am a big chicken, so I'll have to find someone to assist. I don't think I'll do something like try and hang myself when the neighbors are watching.

Yes, I agree 100%. If fate doesn't take me by a certain age and quickly enough, I do believe I'll wipe myself out.

All living things have this built-in survival instinct that doesn't know when to quit. I think it sickens the minds of people, keeps them afraid of dying even if life isn't worth living. Even if every moment is one of suffering.

Even brainless plants have this built-in survival instinct. Once a study was done where a person completely destroyed one of two plants in a room. Next time he walked into the room, the second plant's stress readings were jumping off the scale. (I want to quote this study which I'm sure I read, but can't find it right now.)

Is a plant's life worth living? They don't have brains and don't think a single thought in their lives. Yet their survival instinct keeps them doing everything required to live.

If I had to choose between waking up tomorrow as a 95 year old who's suffering from a painlful, terminal disease, or not waking up at all, I'd choose to not wake up at all.

The only difference is time. It's not tomorrow. It's many years down the line.

elderley .

I'm not surprised....getting old can be very depressing.

I suppose it could, but it can also be one hel_l of a lot of fun if you do it right.

Okay, I'll bite.

How do you do it right?

The guy must have been very distressed to do this and I feel sorry for him, but it does seem to be an especially selfish way to go- leaving it to others to clear up the mess. I suppose suicide is a selfish thing to do anyway.

Yes, it is a very sad and selfish thing to do...

BB

It's not always selfish. He could have been doing someone a favour. He could be alone with no family etc etc.

Yes, murder-suicide is much more selfish. Glad we're not seeing many of those.

I reckon Pattaya is suffering from the "US Massacre" syndrome, where the media is serving as the full or partial motive for some or most these jumpers.

In the US, these guys who decide to conduct a shooting spree in a classroom or lecture hall for maximum body count know they're going to be remembered like Manson or Hitler.

So I think part of the motive in Pattaya is that these guys know that the women who they think drove them to this, are going to see a picture of their dead bodies in the paper, on TV, or the internet.

Just give it some time.

Right now you're at the stage "Thailand is normal, UK is hel_l".

In a few weeks you'll be back at "Thailand is the Star Trek Holodeck, UK is normal."

A personal friend of Mr. Norton wrote that he just returned from the UK and that's why I wrote "One doesn't fly to the other side of the world, just a week ago" which was correct, according to Mr. Norton's friend:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t&p=2029845

I questioned suicide because it's very strange to climb to a small circulation window on the third floor (outside your own room) and jump....and take the door key from that room with you ?

If someone of 75 years old wishes to commit suicide why not jump from the window in your own room on the third floor....?

That's plain odd.

LaoPo

All the hard evidence points toward suicide.

The only hard evidence is a dead man of 75 years old.

We not only know that he's dead, we also know how he died.

It's impossible speculate on the mindset of someone before something like this. More times than I can count, I've read in the news about shocking things people have done, that shocked and surprised the most, the people who knew and loved them the most.

Some people might contemplate suicide for a long time, others for not so long, could even be a spontaneous act of desperation. His friend "eyebee" didn't talk about seeing him in the days or hours before his death. Maybe something happened that really upset him, making the Olympics a very secondary afterthought.

Who knows, all I know is that I can't speculate as to his state of mind.

The fact is (the only hard evidence we have), that he climbed up to a window, and put himself enough outside of the window, so that, willingly or unwillingly, one little slip,push, or jump made him fall out and down to the ground.

This already bizarre thing to do, combined with the fact that he actually did fall, leads me to think very strongly that the whole series of events, including the fall that lead to his death, was fully intentional.

A skilled diver would know how to make sure he lands head first into the pavement.

How do you become a skilled diver

You become a skilled diver by attempting to dive into water, so that it's vertical enough to be considered a dive and not a belly flop, from a diving board, rock (cliff), or dock until you get it right.

For me, I had a little swimming hole near my rural home with a dock, which stood about 1 metre above the water, erected by someone unknown before my time.

I learned how to dive from the top of this dock at about age 6 or 7 (can't nail the year exactly).

A young learner, I learned how to swim at age 4 (and this one I remember, the fascination of being able to do it for the first time).

Suffice it to say, I was diving smoothly after 3 or 4 painful belly flops, and never belly flopped again after the first good dive.

Like learning how to ride a bicycle.

But I digress, that I made that first post thinking that he took a header off a balcony.

Now it appears that he simply fell backwards from a window ledge that he climbed up to from the 3rd floor get on, which puts it about 8 or 9 metres above the ground.

All that is required for a major blow to the head is for someone to not be pivoting so quickly that he does a full somersault.

At g=9.8 m/s/s, (thanks for the reminder Kerry D), this fall was less than 1.4 seconds, not hard to avoid a somersault.

Those who knew him can take comfort in the fact that he went out on his own terms, instead of long term suffering and agony.

RIP

I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to commit suicide by jumping from a 3rd floor. There's too much risk of ending up seriously injured instead of dead.

A skilled diver would know how to make sure he lands head first into the pavement.

And I assure you, if someone takes a dive straight down head first onto the pavement from three stories up, they'll die one million times in one million attempts.

I remember a few years ago a beer bar owner chose the same method of suicide from a second floor balcony, not the third.

A skilled diver - what planet are you from, try reading what the people who knew him have to say. And how many people jump from a condo in the real world. Turning a bit too much thai i think - bar would suffice (beer bar!!!!!!!!!!)

Umm...yeah. Be sure to turn in your report at the police station.

You had me at "how many people jump from a condo in the real world. Turning a bit too much thai"

With that, you got me. I believe you have just convinced everyone, including any police who happen to read your words, that there's no way this was a suicide.

I'd check all the beach deck chair owners along the beach you think you lost them.

Also, check the businesses across the street from the beach in that area.

And a tip for next time, attach a tag with your name and phone number to the ring.

The keys are useless to anyone else, and someone might return them hoping for a small reward or tip.

A personal friend of Mr. Norton wrote that he just returned from the UK and that's why I wrote "One doesn't fly to the other side of the world, just a week ago" which was correct, according to Mr. Norton's friend:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t&p=2029845

I questioned suicide because it's very strange to climb to a small circulation window on the third floor (outside your own room) and jump....and take the door key from that room with you ?

If someone of 75 years old wishes to commit suicide why not jump from the window in your own room on the third floor....?

That's plain odd.

LaoPo

Yeah, but he lived in that room in Pattaya, which means that it was probably the plan to come back to Pattaya whether he got depressed while he was in the UK or not.

Maybe he thought about ending it in the UK but didn't want to do it near his family.

About the key being on him, that could be just a force of habit, for someone to always have their key in their pocket.

I don't know the layout of the hotel, but many have shrubs and other things like balconies and cars so that he may have decided on that window because of the concrete clearing below.

And 75, who knows why people commit suicide at any age. Maybe he was sick, suffering mentally and/or physically, and this was the quick way of ending that suffering.

You're right. This is odd. But just because it's an odd suicide doesn't mean it's not a suicide.

All the hard evidence points toward suicide.

Why would anyone, at his age of 75, climb up such a complicated way (outside his own room) and jump from an air circulation window ?....

I'm puzzled but don't believe the story, as described, for a second.

One doesn't fly to the other side of the world, just a week ago, to climb up a stupid circulation window, next to your own room, and jump.

It might be that he wanted to fix the window, or rescue a bird or small animal or such...slipped and fell, but suicide (this way)...NO.

First, he wasn't there for seven days, it was seven years.

Mrs. Jamnong Ratanajaruen-norakul (40), a hotel maid, told police that Mr. Norton had been a hotel guest for about 7 years and this time he had been staying at a room on the 3rd floor that she regularly cleaned.

I didn't know it was a window, which makes it even more certain to be a suicide in my mind.

This means he had to deliberately climb (as his footprints show) and maneuver his way outside the window, a deliberate act.

I've never heard of a murderer shoving someone through a small "circulation" window.

Almost impossible because if someone doesn't want to go through that window, dam_n near impossible to push him through.

And your theory about an accident, though not nearly as impossible as murder, is another big time stretch.

Every single shred of information indicates suicide, and nothing to the contrary.

A skilled diver would know how to make sure he lands head first into the pavement.

And I assure you, if someone takes a dive straight down head first onto the pavement from three stories up, they'll die one million times in one million attempts.

what a load of bolony

RIP

I wonder which part of my post you find to be "bolony" (actually spelled "boloney" or "baloney").

Do you think that a person cannot make sure he hits headfirst, or that even if he did, he wouldn't die?

Maybe you just take exception to the fact that I think it was probably a suicide (as the police who investigated the scene also think).

Anyway, good luck with your next post. And be careful with the long words.

I know they're difficult, especially the words that are longer than four letters.

Thank you for explaining that, however, why would you assume that this gentleman is a skilled diver, and even if he was, would a suicidal (and possibly drunk) skilled diver have the presence of mind to ensure head first contact with the ground.

Apart from the aforementioned, not many people could dive that distance while maintaining a perfect verticle head first posture. Diving boards aren't usually that high.

I didn't assume he was, just supposed that he might be, given his method of suicide.

And a perfect vertical head first posture doesn't have to be maintained to hit head first. With a person's hands at their sides and body straight, anything that is not horizontal or angled feet first, is angled head first. And even horizontal (or a slight feet first angle) can be almost considered head first because the body wouldn't absorb the blow before the head hits the ground.

Someone who has dove in the water from any height, can pretty much make sure they are closer to upside down and right side up from about six metres up (trust me on this one).

Even someone who doesn't know how to dive might be able to do this instinctively.

Not that it matters much, but those numbers only include the deaths in which police were called to the scene.

They don't include the cases in which people died at the hospital without police being called (i.e., natural causes, diseases,..).

Since hospital deaths happen more often than "body discoveries", with the person usually getting sick before dying, this might bump the natural causes up to about 10-20.

A skilled diver would know how to make sure he lands head first into the pavement.

??????? how do you become skilled at hitting concrete/tar with your head??????

RIP

Sorry, I thought this was obvious and needed no explanation.

If a person can dive through the air downward into water head first, then they can do the same onto anything that is not water, including pavement.

All that matters is that the air above that anything remains the same kind of air, which it is pretty much around the world, save the odd tornado or hurricane.

I hope that answers your question satisfactorily.

I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to commit suicide by jumping from a 3rd floor. There's too much risk of ending up seriously injured instead of dead.

A skilled diver would know how to make sure he lands head first into the pavement.

And I assure you, if someone takes a dive straight down head first onto the pavement from three stories up, they'll die one million times in one million attempts.

I remember a few years ago a beer bar owner chose the same method of suicide from a second floor balcony, not the third.

Wow, this one just takes the cake for the best of everything, eh guys?

A human zoo which exploits entire families.

To top it off, the worst double pricing in the history of the world, I'm guessing.

Charging twelve and a half times as much for foreigners than Thais to enter this human zoo.

Who escalates an argument over dogs into a stabbing? Sicko.

Hope he rots for attempted murder (and hope it stays at "attempted")