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PaPiPuPePo
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Posts posted by PaPiPuPePo
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Look at these two kids. The girl could have taken on both of them while the boy friend watched. I know for sure these kids could not beat up a British guy. Drunk it not drunk. Smell corrupted! Chia Mai
You can't know that.. maybe these two kids have been working in construction or something that made them strong and resilient.. Maybe they had one more assailant with them (police found 3 types of dna on the victims bodies from the beginning.. ) Maybe the victims were drugged .. Maybe they suprise attacked the victims striking them with a hoe in the back of the head... Getting hit in the back of the head can make anyone ko'd ...
If you're going to post your opinion get your facts straight first: David had no injuries attributable to the hoe; this is one of the inconsistencies in the police's story. Your parroting it shows how dangerously effective misinformation is, which is why certain folks hammer on these points despite being discredited; it's called pushing the propaganda and again is very effective.
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Has anyone read to book written by Aussie business get duped into a contract to supply oil rig divers for locations in Asia by some people who advertised in an oil magazine. The Aussie guy had a supply company in Australia who supplied divers on contract for oil work.
He lost some large money deposits and tried to get it back, had fight etc with the main guy Falange from US I think, this Falange guy got knife wound, it was reported to the Bangkok tourist police who arrested the Aussie guy and charged him with murder although no body found.
The book the Aussie guy wrote was unbelievable to what he went through, he spent 14yrs in prison most of the time in the BKK Hilton.
In the book he described his confession torture by the tourist police, electric shocks beating to parts of his body that do not show bruising, wet clothes over his face and the plastic bag over his face which he said was the worst.
You can buy this book in most book stores in the airports. Very frightening, you should read it. He also described his time in courts as completely useless as his defence lawyer would not insist things to the judge because you cannot push a judge in court, it is not done.
I am not accusing that the police did anything like this to the 2 your guys, just about this book. I forget the book name but it stands out on the shelf.
IIRC he said the police hit him with telephone books because they didn't leave marks. There are many ways in fact to cause pain without causing much in the way of external marks. Regardless, as was pointed out, by now they'd have disappeared.
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No matter how much you were beaten no matter what kind of threats are you going to sit there in silence with your life on the line.
If you guys want to believe that these 2 were privately tutored in what they had to do when reinacting the crime then you are dumb.
They knew how the murders were committed, what weapon was used, where theygot it, how many blows were struck and went through te entire act without hesitation
Not one of them but both stayed silent because they were scared they would get another beating? Never mind if found guilty the death penalty awaits them.
Not a peep out of either of them but then along come their lawyers and suddenly "We were beaten"
Of course their lawyers ...lets call them Snow White and the Seven dwarfs would never advise their client to lie so the must be innocent.
Case closed let them go because all you would be detectives on Thai visa say so
Your post has mis-statements in it (mistakes) which I'm not going to parse for you, the info is out there. So your conclusion is meaningless. Learn the facts or best keep quiet and not muddy the waters with your ill-formed opinions.
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From Post #7 above: Very disturbing but what can you do against multi millions of dollars
As Wendall (played by Willie Nelson) put it in The Electric Horseman:
Wendall: I'm gonna get me a bottle of tequila and find me one of them Keno girls that can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch and just kinda kick back.
This is a grown-up discussion, you know. Or supposed to be at least.
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Confessions, DNA and witnesses aren't enough?
"He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."
Otherwise, "hey, the guys we picked up are Burmese nobodies, so just sentence them to death quickly and be done with it."
You and the poster above don't know the DNA matches. The witnesses have been unreliable. The Burmese-and-cop show of the reenactment was a farce, with a photo even showing how the Burmese had to be coached to get the facts right. The confessions were said to have been made under duress and there is mountains of evidence over the years that this is a regular occurrence, it could be called common knowledge thus confessions in MANY countries including the USA and Thailand are very often suspect. Never mind that confessions are traded for leniency and intimidation regarding punishment is also used.
Do you think the hundreds of thousands of people who are suspicious of the conclusions about this case are daft? Conspiracy theorists?
I notice the ratio of doubters to true believers on this forum is huge, though the post count thanks to the trolls and possible shills is nearly even! But
the momentum is on the side of getting to the real bottom of this so carry on with your unfounded certainties but if justice is eventually served you'll be in for a surprise.
Some posters obviously don't understand the
emoticons. Apologies for my obtuseness.
I used to own a CBX650, great bike
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They should not only be embarrassed by by UK probe, but by the whole way they have screwed up the whole case to protect the "untouchables"
They are truly an embarrassment not only for Thailand, but for anyone working as police anywhere in the world!!
Rather alike the case involving that young Australian woman in Patong who was actually jailed for reporting the crime of rape here on Phuket, yet was vilified by all online farang media here.
I have no personal interest other than shame on the local media besmirching this particular victim's testimony/name, and, in particular PW, who published an inconsequential inflammatory FB pic of her.
You all could have paved a way to truth and justice here regarding these ongoing crimes against 'farang'. Male and female. But you didn't. And look what happened AND keeps happening. Forget the bloody emoticon. Nothing changes unless YOU all speak out, Thai and farang alike.
Well said and this is why some of these relentless defenders of the farcical frame-up get my goat. They really appear to have little to no concern for the victims--you can't read any such in their comments. Cold-blooded (but still flawed) analysis. As if no one suffered. It's contemptible.
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Have you escaped from the bottle,or just been on it.<deleted>.First time seen that the murder of backpackers got so much popularity. Isn't?.... Or may be they are not just backpackers.......who knows!. May be there some agencies are involved
Troll alert. Yawn.
It took 6 replies before someone called it out. Please don't feed the trolls.
(I'd add please don't engage the shills but that seems like a lost cause)
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If you look at the photos of Nomsod supposedly taken in Bangkok (I saw them on the CSI LA Facebook page), you'll notice something rather strange: from 09:16:39 to 09:16:40 he has the opposite foot forward, meaning he has taken one or three steps. If it's one, he's moved at least a meter per step, so he'd have to be gliding at high speed like a Tibetan qi-gong master across the floor to do that. Otherwise, he's taking very short fast strides. Possible if he's hurrying, but he's very upright, and even leaning a bit back, so doesn't seem to have the body position of someone hurrying. If you put the two frames together, one second between them seems odd. Comments? I'm happy to stand corrected but wonder if this is a clue to the authenticity of the time stamp.
Meanwhile look at the similarities between him and the CCTV image, it's a dead ringer.
JD or any other naysayers, care to weigh in, not with rhetorical sand in the eyes, but with something concrete debunking this?
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Moreover, the Thai police are no longer involved in the investigation anymore because they have already finished the case file and sent it to the public prosecutor, Pol.Lt. Prawut said.
So the police consider this case closed?
There is "0" chance of additional suspects?
These two Burmese kids did the hole thing by themselves?
I would never consider bringing my family to that island, most likely there are still murderers/rapists on that island.
I will be going to every single travel website I can comment on and warn people of the danger they are in if they go to KT, as well as KP and Samui just for the fact they are in close proximity. I would encourage everybody to do the same.
Please also warn people there are murderers and rapists in America!
Yes like every country in the world, and if there were possibly one running around a small island in any country it might be wise to stay away until he's caught.
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Not at present. Not since the coup.
The RTA already gets training from the US.The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.AFAIK only one training was cancelled for the RTP
Not according to the Guardian, USA Today, Al Jazeera etc
"Joint military and police training exercises cancelled" Joint as in US-Thai.
BTW No dna material sent to Singapore. Another disinformation from high rankers at head of police.
We cant prove a negative, but you should be easily able to prove a positive, if you still believe the police.
We will see in court if they sent anything to Singapore.
I am personally aware of training happening on some levels. Such as CULP. I am only aware of one police training being cancelled. I will ask around tmw to see if any other police trainings were also cancelled. (CULP has a FB page)
Thank you for the `IF` at last Who is the `we` you refer to? Would that be you and a wealthy Thai land owning family. What would I be in court for? I doubt the EU would agree to extradition for doubting the veracity of some police statement. IF it is shown inconclusively that any commercial or institutional lab in Singapore has been used, then I would be the first to apologize.
I seem to be receiving a few veiled threats on here recently.
PS Maybe you used "we" as in "I", as some royals do.,
No I used "we" as in all of us; when the trial takes place.
Yes, fair enough But if the `scapegoats` plead guilty in court then no evidence will be presented. They will have been in the hands of their captors in Ko Samui prison for a while and possibly subject to more persuasions and dire threats. If evidence is presented, will the court proceedings be open to the British press or will it be closed with reporting restrictions. Fair and transparent There are already enough innocent victims of this tragedy. Just don`t want to see 2 more and many would not blame me for having legitimate concerns re Thai judiciary, police and current regime.
The UK and Myanmar will have observers in court.
Oh well, nothing to worry about. Will they be allowed to take notes, tweet can they take translators etc?
But the British press will not be allowed in court then. Fair and transparent, the Thai judiciary.
Umm what is your issue with the courts? Seriously! You surely are aware that many places do not allow recording, right?
As for foreign press? Many places do not allow the press.
Translators? One would assume that both embassies have Thai speakers on staff, wouldn't one?
One would and one does. I did not mention recording, I asked if note taking was allowed. You are happy that press will be denied access it seems. Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that some other countries` judicial systems may be as loaded and untransparant as Thailand`s idoes not make it right.
JD's doubt-sowing is on the wrong side of history, only the success of a corrupt investigation will exonerate his views. What kind of morally evolved person would want to preserve the status quo in the face of the evidence nearly proving it to be a farce? To pick on any inconsistencies in the argument he disfavours while ignoring gaping holes in the story he supports (despite his disingenuous claims that he's the only one exercising restraint in judgment, waiting for the incorruptible court proceedings to deliver an unassailable guilty verdict)?
I think if we were all standing around in a room discussing this his campaign would have little or no traction, the internet affords great powers to manipulators of the facts if they can produce a sufficiently coherent story to fool those incapable of seeing through his ploys or readers newly-arrived to the discussion.
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Maybe ... but the UK team has already been given permission to come and "observe", so they have their foot in the door. While in Thailand, they can perform the role I am speaking of with or without the cooperation of the Thai police. If the Thai police allow them full access to the suspects, witnesses, evidence, etc. in a transparent fashion, then that can be included in the report and the families can draw positive conclusions regarding the transparency of the investigation. If they are given partial access, then what they were allowed to review and what they were not allowed to review can be reported on. If the UK team is actively stonewalled, then that can be included in the report and conclusions can be drawn as well.
Interesting discussion, but doomed to failure before it would even be considered in the case of the police - it would be deemed to "usurp their own role".The debate about the role that the UK government can and should play in the investigation of Hannah and David's death is a legitimate one involving many considerations by all involved. And it is not an easy black-and-white issue to resolve, because what ultimately happens has many ramifications outside this particular case.
My opinion is that the UK investigators should essentially act as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are UK citizens. Here is why:
Many parties (everyone actually) have an interest in bringing Hannah and David's attackers and killers to justice, but the supreme interest is held by their families.
If Hanna and David's families wanted to do so, they could hire a private investigator to collect and examine evidence, search for and interview witnesses, and review any evidence the Thai police was either willing to provide access to or made public.
The PI would have no legal authority to require cooperation from witnesses, search premises, etc., and definitely not to prosecute the case. The PI would be legally acting in a private (non-Thai government or law enforcement) capacity on behalf of the families.
When finished obtaining and analyzing the available evidence, the PI could report back to the families exactly what evidence it has collected and reviewed, as well as what evidence it has not had access to. It could also offer an expert opinion on the quality of that evidence, discrepancies and conflicts contained in the evidence, as well as on police procedures in gathering, handling and analyzing evidence.
The PI could also provide its expert opinion, based on the evidence it has seen and analyzed, as to who committed the crimes (if the PI believes it has sufficient proof to say beyond a reasonable doubt) and who did not commit the crimes (again, if sufficient proof is in hand beyond a reasonable doubt). In the alternative, if the PI does not have sufficient proof to say, in his or her expert opinion, who did or did not commit the crimes beyond a reasonable doubt, the report can state that also.
The PI could then offer all of the evidence it has collected as an independent investigator to both the prosecution and the defense, to use as they wish. Whether it aids the prosecution or the defense should not be of concern, because they are only interested in justice, finding the real killers.
Finally, the PI could observe the trial and compare what is offered as evidence in court with what they discovered in their own investigation. Then they could report back to the families as to whether what went into either convicting or exonerating the accused matched with what they discovered, and deliver an expert opinion as to whether it was a fair verdict, one way or the other.
In this particular case, the UK government's team of investigators can do all of the things I've described above. They can, in essence, be acting as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are citizens of the UK. And they can do so without "participating" or "interfering" with the Thai police, prosecution or judiciary.
If everyone involved truly wants to make sure the real killers and rapists, whoever they are, are convicted and punished, then there is no reason why they would not welcome the UK team to perform this role.
In theory, the Thai police and government have the second-most supreme interest in bringing the killers to justice. Because they are charged with protecting their citizens and foreigners visiting Thailand. So if the real killers aren't caught, that means they are still free to do this again. Given that, you would think they would welcome any assistance they can get, as long as it does not interfere or usurp their own role.
I believe that what I've suggested is the best way to balance all the interests and allow that to happen.
No.
Overstepping the duties agreed to diplomatically is not something that they can do.
I agree with that, and didn't mean to suggest they should do so ... see my response below in #607.
If it is outside of those bounds, you are correct they cannot.
Whether there is or will be an actual MOU regarding what they will and won't be allowed to do, I have no idea.
If there is, they will need to stay within it ... my hope is that it would allow what I have suggested.
The public statements by the Thai and UK governments aren't in concert right now, so I don't think anybody knows what the actual diplomatic agreement is at this point.
"with or without the cooperation..."??
Edit -- did I miss a public statement from the UK? The only thing I have seen is an off the record comment by an anonymous source.
Why are you the only person on these threads who can't properly manage quotes in your replies?
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Confessions, DNA and witnesses aren't enough?
Confessions extracted under torture? Worthless.
Witnesses who say what they are told is the new truth either for money or under threat? Worthless.
DNA? Now that is a different story, if it is confirmed independently, I'm on board with the BIB's case.
Independently though, independently.
Beat me to the punch and with a much more concise response!
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Confessions, DNA and witnesses aren't enough?
"He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."
Otherwise, "hey, the guys we picked up are Burmese nobodies, so just sentence them to death quickly and be done with it."
You and the poster above don't know the DNA matches. The witnesses have been unreliable. The Burmese-and-cop show of the reenactment was a farce, with a photo even showing how the Burmese had to be coached to get the facts right. The confessions were said to have been made under duress and there is mountains of evidence over the years that this is a regular occurrence, it could be called common knowledge thus confessions in MANY countries including the USA and Thailand are very often suspect. Never mind that confessions are traded for leniency and intimidation regarding punishment is also used.
Do you think the hundreds of thousands of people who are suspicious of the conclusions about this case are daft? Conspiracy theorists?
I notice the ratio of doubters to true believers on this forum is huge, though the post count thanks to the trolls and possible shills is nearly even! But
the momentum is on the side of getting to the real bottom of this so carry on with your unfounded certainties but if justice is eventually served you'll be in for a surprise.
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"At the same time, the state prosecutor of the Eight Prosecution Region, Mr Thawatchai Siengjiew, disclosed that the working group of prosecutors have ordered the police to probe into more issues and to question more witnesses and find more circumstantial evidence before the state prosecutor could prosecute them in the court.
He said that case needed to have substantial evidence as it is closely watched by people around the world."So this investigation is then FAR from complete as stated. These are not minor details; all parts of the prosecutor's case need work.
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"Human Rights Office officials said they received complaints that the two Myanmar suspects were beaten by the police during the interrogation.
They said from the interview with the suspects also confirmed they were beaten.
However a cross check of the suspects’ claim with Koh Pha-ngan police chief Pol Col Prachum Ruangthong showed there was no beating as claimed by the suspect. The officer confirmed no beating or torture."So there are two contradictory "confirmations." Note that the Burmese can only make claims, while the Pol. Col. can "confirm" that beating them didn't happen. Isn't he just making a counter-claim?
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This case will be closed and forgot for the most part in the near future ... even bigger deaths events and mysteries have occurred in Thailand over the last years and outside of a few posts here and there on Thaivisa, the rest of the world has long moved on.
Aside from being completely inaccurate--aside from a few posts?….the rest of the world?--this is so utterly inappropriate. You've posted some crassly inappropriate things here but this one takes the cake.
Add to that you're one of the most interested people in the world, so it would appear. Regardless, this is not going to go away, as much as you'd like that.
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The news is full of rapists who killed their victims and almost always in a violent way.
Comparing rape to a crime of passion is no different than the bizarre comment made about women who aren't attractive should only wear bathing suits.
I'm no more an expert on this than I expect you are, but I'm not so sure so many murders by rapists are anywhere as violent as this one. Not to diminish at all the suffering of any such victim, but when I've read of such cases it seems often the victim is strangled. Again, horrible regardless, but this case is remarkable in the brutality of the murder, the extremity of the violence to Hannah. So in this way it is IMO even worse than other such cases.
As to the second, one can see the viewpoint of conservative Thais, because a lot of young faring do go way outside the bounds Of course, their dollars are welcomed, and there seems to be no attempt at an informational campaign to educate visitors on what is desirable behavior. Add to that (greatly), there's no indication this is at all germane to the present case, and it reeks of blaming the victim. And yet, this is a widely held view, not just in Thailand, so I don't think whoever said it should be singled out for voicing it.
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On a separate point when i saw the picture of the damage done to Hannah face the first day I said to my wife this not just rape and murder this was the work of someone who hated her or hated women. It happens sadly all the time rape and murder but how often do you see the victim disfigured like she was. This is not a crime of passion this was a crime of hatred thats why I don't believe 2 small guys from Burma having a beer and playing music on the beach did this because they fancied some fun?
Well put and I have been very annoyed by the mis-representation of this as a crime of passion by people who should know better, from the start. This was a vicious hate crime perpetrated by sickos of the most satanic sort. And since it was likely not someone who knew her well enough to have developed a hatred for her (never mind she was apparently a lovely young woman), then it was either rage at her (for being rebuffed?) or a general and extreme hatred, as you said.
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[numerous others' quotes mixed with mojibake, unattributed]
I actually think that they may have the killers.
Thanks so much for weighing in with your opinion, and clarifying your position as I was really wondering.
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Perhaps backpackers are finding cooler places in the world to travel to. Koh Chang for example, was a cool place to visit 30-40 years ago. No paved roads, no access to White Sands beach other than by path through the jungle, villages like Baan Bang Bao virtually inaccessible. Waterfalls such as the one at Klongprao had to be discovered, no signs, hardly anyone went there. No ferry. A fisherman would take you in his boat for 40 baht.
Would be hugely disappointed to go now though.
I've seen the pics of even 20 years ago, and have some friends who moved here in the early 90's sounds like it was a great place.
There are still nice parts, but vastly different. The cesspool that is Lonely Beach is one place, that would benefit from being totally torn down.its just Khao San road by the beach, vile, vile place.
The whole west-coast of Koh Chang is covered in ticky-tacky blight and is no longer free from cars or pick-ups, anywhere. This is just the natural "progression" of the tourist model pursued for decades now. Most of what's for sale is tourist crap. The food is good but the seafood is all imported so it's not any more authentic to eat a grilled fish there than in Bangkok. It's not as bad as Samui, where you you may have to remind yourself at times that you are on an island not in the middle of a large town on the mainland, but that's probably only a matter of time.
The east side is empty if you want to camp, no thanks, or chichi resorts, for, you know, the "quality" tourists. The other main fork of the tourist model here.
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Yep. Just typed in AC Bar Koh Tao mafia and found lots terrible reviews on tripadvisor about this place:
"The men working there kept eyeing up my girlfriend trying to give her free drinks.
Not sure what they where up to, but we felt very uncomfortable there and was glad to leave."
"Terrible establishment. Aggressive locals and there was what appeared to be a turd in the middle on the floor when I was there."
"Unsafe place,very loud, wifi not work,standard room very expencive.smelly shower,very rude stuff,definatly i will never ever come back this place.good points....i didnt find any,worst place in thailand."
"My friend was harrassed at the bar by drug dealer."
"Stay here only if you want to give your money to money grabbing, honourless, rude and horrible people." etc. etc
7 Reviews all within a week ago ... going back further they look to average about 3 reviews a month. Consider only few people post to Trip Adviser, sounds like tourism must be doing great on Koh Tao despite it being low season in Thailand.
Considering only few people post to Trip Advisor, one could just as easily assume that a much larger percentage have negative reviews.
You're parading a guess as a near-certainty. So a long stretch in order to make a pro-tourism statement. And you wonder why you're perceived as a shill.
I apologize for thinking the sarcasm would be obvious and not go over your's or other's head.
Well, interesting then that having read a number of your posts (though I admit I'm now skipping most of them after reading the first sentence) I assumed it wasn't meant as such.
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P.S. favourable has a "u" in it and defence is spelled with a "c" and before you argue that you spell it that way in America , the language is English
What you're saying here is not that these words must be spelled the English way in England, but everywhere, so that every "center" in the USA needs to be re-spelled "centre," and so on? You're opposing "America" (i.e. the US of which) and English.
I guess having claim to the place of origin of a language has no bearing on one's ability to communicate logically in it.
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Wow, what about reports coming in about this A/C bar. Apparently another murder there new years eve 02/03. Multiple, multiple reports of druggings. Allegedly they are responsible for burning down another competitors bar for being too successful and then running the owners off of the island.
Do some Google searches people. The place is out of control. These people need to be stopped. Some people on the island are now even posting names and photos of the guilty people. You just couldn't make the horror stories up. Its inhumane. Forget these 2 British kids. A world run investigation into every death on the island needs to be done. Simply shocking and to think these people from the A/C bar have been allowed to get away with it for so long... No wonder they didn't try to hide the bodies. This is everyday business for them. If the truth ever comes out the islands are finished and the many people involved should b in jail for life, police included. How can human beings in positions of power employed to serve and protect allow this to happen. Its just not human.
Yep. Just typed in AC Bar Koh Tao mafia and found lots terrible reviews on tripadvisor about this place:
"The men working there kept eyeing up my girlfriend trying to give her free drinks.
Not sure what they where up to, but we felt very uncomfortable there and was glad to leave."
"Terrible establishment. Aggressive locals and there was what appeared to be a turd in the middle on the floor when I was there."
"Unsafe place,very loud, wifi not work,standard room very expencive.smelly shower,very rude stuff,definatly i will never ever come back this place.good points....i didnt find any,worst place in thailand."
"My friend was harrassed at the bar by drug dealer."
"Stay here only if you want to give your money to money grabbing, honourless, rude and horrible people." etc. etc
7 Reviews all within a week ago ... going back further they look to average about 3 reviews a month. Consider only few people post to Trip Adviser, sounds like tourism must be doing great on Koh Tao despite it being low season in Thailand.
Considering only few people post to Trip Advisor, one could just as easily assume that a much larger percentage have negative reviews.
You're parading a guess as a near-certainty. So a long stretch in order to make a pro-tourism statement. And you wonder why you're perceived as a shill.
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People don't get locked up here for small amounts of marijuana.
By "here" do you mean Thailand? If so you're very poorly informed. I'm not one who'd have to worry, but I've heard stories over the years and it sounds like tourists etc caught with tiny amounts of ganja are being pressed for 100,000 Bt "fines." I heard 20,000 a couple of years ago. So if you don't have the money….they just send you on your way? Right.
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P.S. favourable has a "u" in it and defence is spelled with a "c" and before you argue that you spell it that way in America , the language is English
Oh that's rich, you lost that debate in 1783. And….are you as new to the internet as to this forum?
Koh Tao murder suspects tell rights commission they were beaten
in Thailand News Headlines
Posted
Or have made a pretty good sarcastic joke, which is how I read it.