joepublic

Now that it has been revealed that Michael Brown was a violent thug, these rioters are just hurting their own cause. They will get little sympathy from most of the public and the criminal acts just make black people look bad.

A typical statement from "hang 'em high" brigade who cannot see beyond their own prejudices.

As yet, there is no suggestion that Brown was committing a crime at the time of his killing. How on earth one can suggest that because he had committed a crime in the past, that some how justifies his random slaying. This reveals the worst type of subconscious racism, as well as a lack of understanding of how justice is supposed to work.

When the details are all revealed, only then we can really understand what happened, but the police are dragging their feet on this - why?

What we do know is the police continually refused to provide details of what happened to an enraged public causing suspicion and mistrust. They then release the video of Brown carrying out a criminal act, against the wishes of the DOJ - who know this will only inflame people and they were right.

The rioters don't deserve any sympathy, and personally, I have no issue with force being used on looters, but the issue is much bigger than looters, and smug comments like the one that were made in this post make us lose sight of the real social problems that have been generations in the making.

South African Jews condemn Israel

I guess the Zionist Apologists will call them anti semetic.

More proof that Israel is the one that uses civilians as shields

http://www.euromid.org/en/article/597

 

Truces are AGREED, not IMPOSED.
 
Hamas proposes a truce based on the lifting of the blockade, the Zionists REJECT that. Why?

Because arms imports would flood into Gaza and the human shields would be redeployed as human bombs the moment people were allowed to cross into Israel - the practical elimination of suicide bombings after the security fence was completed illustrates this point.

p.s I'm quite looking forward to the contortions of logic that will ensue when Hamas break the ceasefire.


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How can you break a ceasefire that you did not agree too? That's the contortion of logic that we expect to see from the Zionists

Truces are AGREED, not IMPOSED.

Hamas proposes a truce based on the lifting of the blockade, the Zionists REJECT that. Why?

I did address your point. There were plenty of rockets before and after the three week period where they "only" fired two rockets. Israel was perfectly justified in putting a stop to it at any point that they felt it was necessary to do so.

Rockets and resistance are justified as long as there is occupation and collective punishment. They are a response that is completely predictable while the Zionists continue to carry out war crime and human right abuses

Good enough.

As long as its not the truth, its good enough for you

How about a terrorist army? They don't wear uniforms, target civilians, use terrorist tactics and delight in their own people being killed. I don't know what else to call them.

I think the term Jihadist encapsulates their essence better than the term terrorists.

How about Resistance, Freedom Fighter, Anti Occupation Forces....

Israel has always been unfairly criticized and the press has made it very clear that these demonstrations were dominated, by anti-Semites - neo-Nazis and Islamic hate groups. No other country in the world would allow thousand of rockets to be shot at them.

There is nothing new here and the usual public hypocrisy will make little difference in the long run.

UC has been discredited so many times, yet continues to repost the same tired propaganda points, over and over. I used to think he was smart, but misguided. Now I simply think he is prolific but repetetive.

The IDF does kill civilians deliberately - I don't see any uniforms on the people they kill, or are we just supposed to take their word for it. All they have to do is apply the label "militant' (what ever that means), and the target becomes legitimate.

Using your logic, Hamas can also claim to be targeting military targets, but due to the technological limitations of their weapons, the low accuracy causes regrettable collateral damage.

The whole idea of the terrorist label takes us away from the facts that people will resist by all means necessary, including their own lives if they must. It creates a false equivalency between the IDF and Hamas.

You do not see uniforms on Palestinian casualties because Hamas does not always wear uniforms (although they do sometimes use IDF uniforms when raiding into Israel), and because Hamas policy is not to admit to militants deaths unless there's simply no denying it. Apparently, you are happy with taking their word for it.

If you suppose that all casualties are civilians, then the IDF is probably the lousiest army ever, and I do not think that is a claim that goes down well when applying the other common Palestinian argument about being an underdog pitted against the might of the Israel. Also, there would be questions regarding those Palestinian "civilians" killed while popping out of tunnels leading into Israel, for example. Don't let the facts confuse you, though.

Hamas does not claim to target military facilities much, and does not make a fuss when it hits civilian targets. There are no internal inquiries when this happens. The technological argument presented is bogus - firing low accuracy weapons into civilian areas is considered problematic in the eyes of international law - exactly the sort of thing Israel is criticized about right now (but not that much of the same criticism applied to Hamas).

So, in your world, there are no terrorists?

A terrorist is someone who creates terror - armies or individuals can do this. Therefore the IDF and the resistance can be called terrorists if you want to debate a word. The IDF, Mossad, MI5, the CIA and Al Quieda, Abu Sayyaf have all targeted and killed civilians, so whats the point in the word terrorist?

The rest of your argument assumes a moral, organizational and military equivalence between the IDF and the civilian population resisting the occupation - as if they have the same resources and choices - they don't - and that's the big Zionist lie I'm trying to draw attention to.

That is your own definition of what a terrorist is. I doubt if it is accepted globally.

One thing we can be sure of, because of the evident world reaction, with huge demonstrations, and the outrage of politicians and ordinary people, is what the world thinks of Israel.

Bury your head in the sand as much as you want, be a reality-denier as much as you like, but globally, Israel is being condemned. That says it all.

Israel Speaks: “We Purposefully Attack Civilians… Because They Deserve It”

Israeli army summarily executed fleeing civilians in southern Gaza

Lets add to the the blowing up of the power station and schools - the effect of which is to target and punish civilians - Israel is a terrorist by any and all defintions

Yes, that is the difference. Israel clearly does not have a policy of murdering children though their military tactics do tragically result in children being killed. So Israel is not a terror group. HOWEVER, I do not doubt that the civilians of Gaza are feeling terrorized.

Hopefully, they will remember that next time they go to the ballot box and not elect a terrorist group to represent them again.

I believe that "Collective punishment" is the term you are looking for. Disgusting

The IDF does kill civilians deliberately - I don't see any uniforms on the people they kill, or are we just supposed to take their word for it. All they have to do is apply the label "militant' (what ever that means), and the target becomes legitimate.

Using your logic, Hamas can also claim to be targeting military targets, but due to the technological limitations of their weapons, the low accuracy causes regrettable collateral damage.

The whole idea of the terrorist label takes us away from the facts that people will resist by all means necessary, including their own lives if they must. It creates a false equivalency between the IDF and Hamas.

You do not see uniforms on Palestinian casualties because Hamas does not always wear uniforms (although they do sometimes use IDF uniforms when raiding into Israel), and because Hamas policy is not to admit to militants deaths unless there's simply no denying it. Apparently, you are happy with taking their word for it.

If you suppose that all casualties are civilians, then the IDF is probably the lousiest army ever, and I do not think that is a claim that goes down well when applying the other common Palestinian argument about being an underdog pitted against the might of the Israel. Also, there would be questions regarding those Palestinian "civilians" killed while popping out of tunnels leading into Israel, for example. Don't let the facts confuse you, though.

Hamas does not claim to target military facilities much, and does not make a fuss when it hits civilian targets. There are no internal inquiries when this happens. The technological argument presented is bogus - firing low accuracy weapons into civilian areas is considered problematic in the eyes of international law - exactly the sort of thing Israel is criticized about right now (but not that much of the same criticism applied to Hamas).

So, in your world, there are no terrorists?

A terrorist is someone who creates terror - armies or individuals can do this. Therefore the IDF and the resistance can be called terrorists if you want to debate a word. The IDF, Mossad, MI5, the CIA and Al Quieda, Abu Sayyaf have all targeted and killed civilians, so whats the point in the word terrorist?

The rest of your argument assumes a moral, organizational and military equivalence between the IDF and the civilian population resisting the occupation - as if they have the same resources and choices - they don't - and that's the big Zionist lie I'm trying to draw attention to.

Don't buy from the Jews. Sound familiar?

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Errr..no.

It's don't buy Israeli products - not stop buying non Israeli products from a shop owned by a Jew. 

Noted. You object to calling an Islamic terrorist group an Islamic terrorist group - even though that is exactly what they are.

Anyone who kills innocent children is a terrorist in my book,including the Jewish terrorist group the IDF.

Sorry, but you can't make up your own definitions.

Terrorists purposely target civilians - like Hamas does. Soldiers in warfare, that cause collateral damage amongst civilians, while conducting operations against combatants, are not "terrorists" - no matter how regrettable it is.

The IDF does kill civilians deliberately - I don't see any uniforms on the people they kill, or are we just supposed to take their word for it. All they have to do is apply the label "militant' (what ever that means), and the target becomes legitimate.

Using your logic, Hamas can also claim to be targeting military targets, but due to the technological limitations of their weapons, the low accuracy causes regrettable collateral damage.

The whole idea of the terrorist label takes us away from the facts that people will resist by all means necessary, including their own lives if they must. It creates a false equivalency between the IDF and Hamas.

Soldiers and ex-soldiers can be tin foil hat conspiracy theory wackos and Jew haters too, dude. Again, anyone OBJECTIVE with the slightest bit of intelligence can easily see that is a propaganda site. No point in further discussion on this. People with a rabid bias that gels with that hate speech site will not have their views changed though.

You're funny ;-)

I use the word Judeophobia only because the more appropriate word antisemitism has become impossible to use anymore on this forum. Every time it is used, some jokers try to act like they don't know that it only refers to Jews and not Arabs as well. So you can't talk about hatred of Jews on this forum like in normal society with the more common word ANTISEMITISM. So the word that makes it more specific about Jews is Judeophobia. It is NOT my choice to use it. Antisemitism is clearly the more commonly understood word. BUT ... there is no other way to communicate the concept here on THIS forum.

Here you go again!

Criticism of Israel, IDF, or the Zionists is not Judeophobia and not anti-Semitism. It's outrage against cruelty and injustice.

When you use these terms, you lie and insult us, by implying that we hate jews for simply being jews, This is your way to avoid the issue, and paint your opponents as racist at the same time. Its not only offensive, its a transparent, and tired tactic.

If you need to use a term, use Anti Zionist, because this way, the focus is on the cause of the misery and injustice, which is Zionism, the militant philosophy that many Jews disagree with.

Posters who have posted racist hate speech do not get to dictate the use of terms.

Sorry, it is the truth. Many many times people HIDE their Jew hatred under the cover of anti-Zionism.

Sometimes it is obvious. Sometimes grey area. But of course not all the time.

So do not even BOTHER saying that anyone is saying that ALL criticism of Israeli policies is Judeophobic by definition because it isn't and nobody is saying that.

If posters insist on posting racist poison, whether thinly disguised as "anti-Zionism" or not you are not immune from having it called out. That includes linking to racist/neo-Nazi/Judeophobic websites, as has been done many many times here by so called anti-Zionists.

I realize with the situation in Gaza, Jew haters think this is now open season ... but no, Jews and good people against racism will be fighting back.

TRANSLATION:

" I don't care what you say, or what you do, I will choose to tell you that you hate Jews"

Veterans Today - 'Israel a cornered rat.'

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/04/israel-a-cornered-rat/

You have posted an article from an extremist hate group / conspiracy theory oriented website.

Congratulations!

http://us.wow.com/wiki/Veterans_Today

Veterans Today is an American political website that describes itself as "an online journal representing the position of members of the military and veteran community in areas of national security, geopolitical stability and domestic policy."^[2] Many of their contributors are veterans, and they state support for "the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic".^{[citation needed]} TheAnti-Defamation League ("ADL") and the Southern Poverty Law Center have criticized it for promoting bigoted and extremist viewpoints.^[3][4] According to the ADL, VT's articles are reposted widely on the Internet, primarily on conspiracy-oriented and right-wing extremist websites.^[3]

Jinthing,

You have really exposed your blinkered thinking this time

Have you see the list of editors. Many of them Ex US military and even an attaché to Israel. And the people who critise them.. the ADL, who everyone knows is a hysterical propaganda group who exist to stifle any anti Zionist speech. Assuming this list is correct, you cant simply dismiss them as " ____" (fill in the blank with your latest label)

• Gordon Duff - Chairman, U.S. Marines, Vietnam, Managing Director, Adamus Defense Group, Switzerland
• Col. James Hanke – US Army Special Forces (Ret.) Former G2 Third Army, Attache to Israel, A-Team Leader Vietnam, Director of Operations, Adamus Defense Group, Switzerland
• Gwenyth Todd - Former Head, White House National Security Council, Middle East Desk, Chief Political Advisor, US Navy 5th Fleet
• Leo Wanta – Former National Director of Intelligence under President Reagan and Inspector General, Department of Defense
• • Dr. James H. Fetzer, McKnight Professor Emeritus, University of Minnesota Duluth, former Marine Corps officer
  • Dr. Kevin Barrett, Specialist in Islamic Studies, Educator, Radio Host, Investigative Journalist
  • Major Bobby Hanifin - US Air Force, Veterans Affairs Editor