joepublic

Anti-Zionists actively oppose the existence of Israel, the nation state homeland of the Jewish people. You can't really get more anti-Jewish people than that, mate.

Where does it say Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people? Before you refer me to God, please realize that we live by the laws of man, not of YOUR God.

I am not going down this dark hole with you.

But you have confirmed my perception, as an anti-Zionist, you don't accept that the state of Israel ever existed.

Flavius Josephus; Antiquities (of the Jews)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiquities_of_the_Jews

This is history, not biblical. He wrote from Rome, as a member of the House of Falvius. Therefore, whatever notes he has made must be seen in the light of historiography- likely true!

Any other questions?

I have a question.

I know you must have read this book, please point out the parts that gives the Jews a claim to the land that would stand up in an international court of law.

Anti-Zionists actively oppose the existence of Israel, the nation state homeland of the Jewish people. You can't really get more anti-Jewish people than that, mate.

Where does it say Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people? Before you refer me to God, please realize that we live by the laws of man, not of YOUR God.

I am not going down this dark hole with you.

But you have confirmed my perception, as an anti-Zionist, you don't accept that the state of Israel ever existed.

I ask you once again to show me where it is stated that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people.

Can you do this, or will you simply hide in the dark hole of denial?

I have made it abundantly clear I afford these survivors no more credibility than any other. It is a choice I make and while their message is contrary to my position, that is not why. I just don't see the value in assigning them some preeminent authority because they survived something horrible, and that it is equal to Gaza, and therefore valid. You see, I don't concede what is happening in the middle east is equal, therefore the authority for which their declaration rests is void in my opinion. It has nothing to do with being Jews, or not, or survivors, or not. I just don't think it is a comparable position for which authority is then granted as a subject matter expert. Does the material needed to continually represent your point of view desperately require replenishing with pejoratives or other allies?

I wanted to address your point that everyone who expresses the opinion that there is a "massacre in gaza", should have equal weight. I respectfully disagree.

If this statement came from a group of Palestinians, then we could expect them to say something like this.

But it comes from Jewish people, and those whose history specifically the Zionists use to justify their actions. Therefore, it is on two counts that their contrary opinion is surprising and therefore should be looked at more seriously.

Imagine a group of 40 Palestinians who were around during the Nakba (Palestinian Holocaust), and raised $180K to run an advert in the Arab press, supporting Israel's use of force, would you not consider that to be something worth listening to, rather than Hamas?

Anti-Zionists actively oppose the existence of Israel, the nation state homeland of the Jewish people. You can't really get more anti-Jewish people than that, mate.

Where does it say Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people? Before you refer me to God, please realize that we live by the laws of man, not of YOUR God.

Too bad Gaza cannot rebuild because construction materials have been banned for years.

That must be how they built those luxury hotels, modern shopping malls and tunnels.

Thank You UG,

Please keep posting remarks like this - it does more for the Anti Zionist cause that any amount of debate ever could.

If Hamas isn't a terror organization, why did they take the construction materials they did get to build terror tunnels going into Israel? Israel really has no choice but keep on top of what goes in to Gaza. But as long as Hamas is still in charge, you can be sure they will just rearm again. The anti-Zionism cause is the antisemitic cause of Hamas -- denying the right of the Jews to have political self determination in their own homeland of Israel. Anti-Zionism is a racist cause, an evil cause, a cause that singles out Jewish people for especially unfair treatment. A state that has existed for 1948 still constantly challenged that it's existence was ever legitimate. Why? Because it is a JEWISH state. Could Palestinians make peace with Israel ... sure they could ... just bloody ACCEPT the existence of the state of Israel and SHOW in actions that acceptance is real.

TERROR: What you call terror, others call resistance. Why do you refuse to see this?

"The anti-Zionism cause is the antisemitic cause" .

You see, you are doing it again - trying to reframe everything as anti Semitic. You conveniently forget that the European Ashkenazi Zionists stole their land and then you launch into a "you hate us because we are Jews", when the reality is "we hate you because you stole our land, and kill us every day".

I may be wrong, but I don't think Hamas would stop resisting the Zionists if they happened to be Scientologists...but maybe I'm wrong?

As for solutions, there are many, but we are so far from any possible concessions from the Zionists, that no one can imagine any progress being made to peace.

Here is an ad placed in the NY times by jewish holocaust survivors regarding the recent gaza conflict

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/holocaust-survivors-palestinians.html

Even Holocaust Survivors call what the Zionists are doing a Massacre.

Lets predict the response of the two main Zionist Apologists here.

"These are Self Hating, Anti Semetic, Holocaust Denier, Liberal, Tree Hugging Jews"

That's if they respond at all!

I spend a considerable amount of time as an Israeli apologist on these pages; considerable. I have never said such a thing. In no diplomatic treatise, document, or current discourse are the Jews of Israel called "Zionists;" though they are by you (and others). Indeed, when I increasingly realize that people like you are using "zionist" it begs me to consider how vacant your points are that follow. Rarely is great depth presented, only refuge in pejoratives when statements include this refuge- "zionist."

I have made it abundantly clear I afford these survivors no more credibility than any other. It is a choice I make and while their message is contrary to my position, that is not why. I just don't see the value in assigning them some preeminent authority because they survived something horrible, and that it is equal to Gaza, and therefore valid. You see, I don't concede what is happening in the middle east is equal, therefore the authority for which their declaration rests is void in my opinion. It has nothing to do with being Jews, or not, or survivors, or not. I just don't think it is a comparable position for which authority is then granted as a subject matter expert. Does the material needed to continually represent your point of view desperately require replenishing with pejoratives or other allies?

If I went through this thread and counted my posts supporting Israel I might be near the top 2-3 people supporting Israel; maybe. Yet you throw such an incendiary statement out there that nets me into a nasty, provocative statement that I never made. Be more exact or don't throw bombs, please.

To be honest, I was referring to two others here - not you. I try to use sarcasm or comedy to expose them, because they cant engage in debate without wheeling out the same tired old "human shield" or "Anti Semite" nonsense.

I have a question for you - which part of my post is incendiary and why? I may be mocking them, but surely its nothing to get angry about?

Here is an ad placed in the NY times by jewish holocaust survivors regarding the recent gaza conflict

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/holocaust-survivors-palestinians.html

Even Holocaust Survivors call what the Zionists are doing a Massacre.

Lets predict the response of the two main Zionist Apologists here.

"These are Self Hating, Anti Semetic, Holocaust Denier, Liberal, Tree Hugging Jews"

That's if they respond at all!

Try to find it on a LEGITIMATE website. It is on every neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic and Islamic one there is, because it is FAKE.

Yes, yes.. we know.

Unless its an IDF press release or Fox News, you wont believe it.

Gaza uses human shields.

Will Israel and its apologists ever grow weary of using this type of dehumanizing rhetoric to justify Israel's state sponsored massacre of innocent children?

...

The kind of rhetoric you just used is actually hate speech. You are suggesting it is the government policy of Israel to intentionally mass murder innocent children. That is a total lie. Those pushing this new era blood libel lie against the Jews are a big part of the reason antisemitism is on the rise internationally.

Intentionally edited out your absurd comment about overeating. Irrelevant.

It is not hate speech - we have seen the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields, and blowing up schools, hospitals and power stations. The IDF also targets pregnant women. The list of the murder of innocents by the IDF can go on.

This is why Israel is responsible for the rise in anti Semitism. Their actions put decent Jewish people in danger, but they don't care

You clearly don't have the first clue about the political diversity of Zionism. But I would agree there are strong forces on both sides making hope for peace anytime soon remote.

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Their political diversity means nothing to the women and children they have murdered - what matters is what they do, not what they say

When in doubt call the Jews baby killers. That always seems to work. Oh you meant Zionists not Jews right? Sure thing mate

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Avoid the point, and throw a slur - that always works - right on dude!

And, yes, I mean the Zionists, not the Jews.

Here is why:

Zionism requires the expulsion of the native inhabitants of Palestine to meets its land grab goals.

Judaism does not require a land grab.

As much as you would like to paint me as anti jew, I'm not

Abbas cannot make peace, because there is no peace to be had with the Zionists.

Abbas cannot make peace, because the Palestinians have refused multiple peace deals before and after 1948. You have to have two partners to make peace and there is not one on the Palestinian side.

Telling people what you think they should accept, and then telling them to "like it or lump it", is not peace.

I always thought the one with upper hand has better choices, but I guess I was wrong.

Israel should just bent over backwards because this is what Palestinians want.

Mind you Palestinians have not even once agreed to compromise , not even once.

There never was a state of Palestine and Jerusalem was never a capital of non existent country, yet Palestinians want it, so must be given.

They waged wars and lost, well too bad, give them the land back anyway.

Almost 2 million Arabs , Palestinians live in Israel and are Israeli citizens, but who cares, give them more.

Thank you for listing the standard Zionist bullet points. Is this what you wanted, or were you trying to make some kind of point?

You clearly don't have the first clue about the political diversity of Zionism. But I would agree there are strong forces on both sides making hope for peace anytime soon remote.

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Their political diversity means nothing to the women and children they have murdered - what matters is what they do, not what they say

Nobel prize-winning author Elie Wiesel is a great man.

Jews rejected child sacrifice 3,500 years ago. Now it's Hamas' turn.

In my own lifetime, I have seen Jewish children thrown into the fire. And now I have seen Muslim children used as human shields, in both cases, by worshippers of death cults indistinguishable from that of the Molochites.

What we are suffering through today is not a battle of Jew versus Arab or Israeli versus Palestinian. Rather, it is a battle between those who celebrate life and those who champion death. It is a battle of civilization versus barbarism.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/01/elie-wiesel-condemns-hamas-for-using-children-as-human-shields-calls-on-gazans-to-reject-hamass-child-sacrifice/

The name "Jewish 'Anti-Zionist' Network" speaks for itself - a bunch of loons.

Ahh, we see you reach for the "Avoid the issue, apply the labels" technique of Zionism Propaganda

Only a hardcore Zionist spokesperson can reject the words of 300 holocaust survivors who tell us what Zionism is doing to the people of Palestine, by calling them "loons". People who have actually lived through the brutality that the Zionists are passing on to the Arabs who did nothing against the European Askenazi settlers.

The Swiss model would work?

Look at their record of banking without ethics,and looking after anybodies money no questions asked for many, many years. Corruption at it's most institutionalized and all blessed by the state and democratic government,

Swiss bankers - rhymes with something appropriate

Good pocket knives though.

i think I know what you are getting at - but hiding your wealth is different than making it illegally - right? I mean, why should I have my earnings and dollar movements reported to the USA, when I have already declared everything to my country of tax residence. Why should a foreign government know about my business? There are many good and bad aspects of secrecy.

My problem is less with the secrecy aspect, it's the way the uber rich have a different set of financial options than the rest of us. They have access to investment instruments that are closed to 99% of people, but that's the banking system in general, and not the Swiss in particular

i dont think the private sector wants these useless parasites either

These freeloaders would never survive in the private sector - when you make money from your own hard work, you are very careful how you spend it. I'm not poor, but I would never buy a first class ticket if I was paying for it myself!

As usual you change the truth to serve your hate viewpoints.

I don't have to "change the truth", Facts are facts.

Fifty-seven percent (57%) of Likely U.S. Voters say that, in the current conflict in Gaza, most Americans are supportive of the Israelis. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that only eight percent (8%) believe Americans are more supportive of the Palestinians.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/israel_the_middle_east/voters_think_americans_more_supportive_of_israel_than_obama_media_are

A majority of Americans believe that the U.S. should be even-handed in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, but more people sympathize with Israels side of the Middle East split, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll out Tuesday has found.

The poll, conducted July 30-Aug. 3 during ongoing violence in Gaza, found that 53% believed the U.S. should treat Israel and the Palestinians evenly, while 34% said the U.S. should favor the Israelis. Only 4% said the U.S. should favor the Palestinians over the Israelis.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/08/05/u-s-should-be-even-handed-on-israel-palestinians-wsjnbc-poll/

I agree that most of the US public would support anything that is fed to them via the US media - but the US media is no longer credible, and they are losing the battle for viewers to other sources.

They are full of right wing opinion and very little news. No one takes them seriously any more.

A fact attested to by Hilary Clinton who admitted to the US losing the 'information war".

The people of the world are turning to get a fresh take on events, and even Joe Six Pack wont be able to hide from the truth.

Zionists, enjoy the support of the 'majority" of the US public while you can - your days are numbered

When the details are all revealed, only then we can really understand what happened, but the police are dragging their feet on this - why?

What we do know is the police continually refused to provide details of what happened to an enraged public causing suspicion and mistrust. They then release the video of Brown carrying out a criminal act, against the wishes of the DOJ - who know this will only inflame people and they were right.

Interesting. In one sentence JP complains about the police "dragging their feet" on giving the public details. Then, in the next sentence, he complains about the police giving out details that he doesn't want to hear.

So the video explains why the cop shot Brown..?