Plus

Geriatrickid, that's what you said:

"What the Nation offers is a purported quote from a Thai official speculating as to the reason for this.

What reason did Cambodia give?"

Nation's report indicates that the official was not Thai but Cambodian.

And you mentioned "recent messy protests along the border" or something along those lines, clearly referring to PAD clash with THAI villagers which clearly has fuc_k all to do with enforcing some old rules about truck drivers and their deposits for three hours a week later.

It's rather amazing how a fairly clear and self-explanatory article can generate tons of arguments about anything but the subject matter.

Why are you so defensive of that article? Did you write it or what?

It fails to provide sufficient details to really explain the latest clash, and it relies on their long held beliefs that PAD are nationalistic thugs and Kasit is a terrorist.

So, what exactly is so fascinating in that article? What exactly does it add to the discussion?

I assume as much because no actual illegal money transfers were ever mentioned in five years the case has been in the media.

They could have happened anyway but I seriously doubt they are secretly featuring in the indictment.

It seems there are three options now:

a. Cambodians wanted to teach PAD a lesson for beating up fellow Thais, so a week later they devised a scheme to ask for huge deposits from truck drivers. Sondhi was devastated

b. Cambodians were really upset at Thais burning teenagers alive. In about two weeks they finally thought how to get back at Thai military.

c. The least probable at all, so won't even mention it. Suffice to say it appeared in the Nation and had a name and organization of the guy who offered that completely stupid, impossible to even contemplate version.

So there. Proudly typing in my yellow t-shirt.

Who cares if some of the PAD leadership distanced themselves from this incident

I agree that the average Joe flipping through Economist pages on Asia doesn't care. To the people who are familiar with the situation, the article has nothing to offer other than the few platitudes about yellow thugs and mobs, and a peaceful red rally. Apparently history must be applied to yellows only, reds are exempted.

Balanced my ass.

There could be only a potential corruption angle - installments were reluctantly paid to Austrians after people were charged, so I doubt anyone received any kickbacks whatsoever.

They will charge them for damage to the state, which isn't a walk in the park either, assuming they don't want to wait for Samak to go to heaven first.

There aren't that many non-Thaksin court verdicts to spot a trend. Rubber sapplings is the only one so far.

Firetrucks started long time ago, when Thaksin was still in charge, and they managed to indict a lot of people, including Apirak. Last week there was some internal punishment to one of the BMA officials involved.

Jutamas and CTX are also oldies, and Thaksin has accused the judiciary for applying double standards in those already. I remember discussing this very idea here on TV long long time ago, but no details. Would be interesting to dig them up and see how things have developed.

Another thing - anti-Thaksin cases were all brought by AEC while non-Thaksin cases are in the hands of police and Attorney General's Office, maybe the trend is just an acknowledgement that AEC people were very determined comparing to the other two agencies.

As a general rule I do read the OP. Then Plus, I rely on you to explain it to me.

Everyone has the potential to understand news articles and restrain himself from immediately posting anti-PAD rants. You just have to put a little extra effort.

And it's not only your problem, so don't despair.

What the Nation offers is a purported quote from a Thai official speculating as to the reason for this.

And how's that an excuse to start bashing PAD for an unrelated matter?

Also the article mentions that the border commission official retreated into Cambodian territory, so I assume that the source of the explanation is Cambodian.

But let's not forget The Nation and start bashing them, as well.

Why can't you stay on topic and not provoke people into defending PAD or the Nation or whatever else you decide to attack?

Geriatrickid, Scott, and Thai at heart, did you read the OP - there's absolutely no link between Poi Pet border troubles and Preah Vihear.

It was Thai immigration demanding paperwork from a Cambodian official who reciprocated by taking it on Thai truck drivers because he could.

And then you guys rush in with your irrelevant rants about PAD and temples and mobs.

You are just looking for ANY excuse to start, aren't you?

Skins are a matter of preference, some like it, some don't. I suppose they are not free, but if there was a choice, people would simply switch to a different skin and complains would stop (in theory, at least).

I doubt the problems were with skins only, and the upgrade is inevitable, as George seems to have hired a company to oversee the upgrade already.

Incidentally - what skin do you prefer?

Maybe the admin could set a poll and give a link to Invision website to see them for themselves. So far I like the current "Pro" skin the best, though I wouldn't mind changing it just for the sake of fresh look.

I think the upgrade went far beyond simply changing the skin (colors, fonts, small images that make up the "look").

The problems could be with the new version of Invision board itself, the way it deals with the existing database that contains all the posts and member profiles, with ThaiVisa own addons related to advertising and so on.

I wasn't particularly impressed with the new look, btw. Every element seemed to be bigger and done in pastel colors, not really consistent with new LCD screens and old people's eyes.

As a possibly welcome change from the protagonists on this thread ranting at each other, more sober and balanced opinion will be interested in the Economist's comment.The reality is that this issue is simply not very important and those who believe otherwise are either completely lacking in perspective or seeking to whip up nationalist frenzy for their political ends.

What exactly has attracted you in that article?

It's a news pill for people with no background knowledge or interest in the issue, complete with labels like "thugs" and "mobs" and reminders that Thaksin was ousted in a coup. It was clearly written for "newbies" and there's nothing sober or balanced about it.

What exactly make Kasit "nationalist PAD ideologue" as far as the latest clash is concerned, for example? The "sober and balanced" Economist completely ignored the fact that PAD and Kasit are at odds over the temple issue, or that none of the PAD leaders was involved in that march to the border.

Pickup trucks have the lowest taxes, but they also have a lot more metal to apply the tax to, so cheapest small cars like Vios or City should cost less than a truck, even if it's two door manual workhorse. There will be certainly more comfort and gadgets. I think Vios J is the cheapest, check on Toyota Thailand website.

New cars also run on E20 and don't consume much, so there will be no noticeable difference in fuel cost comparing to trucks, too.

Protons are imported from Malaysia at a very low tax rate and they are cheap.

Cambodian customs officials took the move because they were unhappy with Thai officials.

"They drove to Thailand but were asked to present some documents. Upset with the treatment, they have decided to stop being lenient with Thai trucks,"

Yeah yeah, Thailand is at fault again and Cambodians are such a mature nation.

Geriatrickid,

1. Being born somewhere doesn't give you the right to settle on any piece of land regardless of borders and ownership. Cambodian villagers in the disputed area are squatters.

Well it does here! Where do you expect those that were born on this little piece of land to go? Back to their ancestor's pile?! <deleted>!

And for the record, I was one of those who wholeheartedly supported the PAD when they were attempting to, and succeeded in blocking the return of the odious Toxin. But now they should just Shut the Fck Up.

<deleted>??? Shut the FCK Up!?! Angry???

You have no idea how ignorant you are of this issue, do you?

No Cambodians were born there, they moved in around 2004, after Thailand and Cambodia officially agreed to resolve the issue through diplomatic channels.

Now PAD claims they are building an access road to the temple through this disputed territory, because coming from the Cambodia proper is such a bitch. When they won the temple back in 1962 it took one hour for their Prince to climb up the cliff.

These Austrian trucks are actually modified Mitsubishi imported from Thailand, and not even current ones, the previous generation.

6 mil a truck, or was it 4 mil?

It may well have been that in his never ending endeavors to better serve the nation he was ceaseless in attempting to get the best people into cabinet. What do you think??

Yeah yeah, serve the nation.

You know what I think.

Maybe that's exactly the problem. The police report to who???? I would appear that the police ARE the mafia and report to no one. So you think that police corruption is not a government problem?

They policemen who harassed you report to their bosses, a station chief, who reports to the district chief, and so all the way up, to the police chief who reports to no one, but is appointed by the PM.

Right now Abhisit is at his wits end how to get his police chief choice confirmed by the board. The retiring chief was appointed by Samak and was kept on as a tribute to Newin.

So, how exactly is Abhisit responsible for your police troubles?

What is the new 2.5l Vigo with variable turbocharger?

Just read about it in the paper Nation, but there were no specifics.

Everytime I see this thread I cringe at Thaksin's allegation.

In his days he, the PM, was appointing police chiefs all by himself, no one else had a say, it was politics and nothing else. Now Abhisit needs confirmation from the board, and it's called political interfering.

It's really strange that a guy who helped terrorize the airport and kill tourism is made foreign minister.

Maybe because Abhisit didn't think the airport was terrorized and the tourism was killed.

It might stink to you, but did it make any difference as far as Thai foreign policies are concerned? Has the country suffered any disadvantage in foreign relations?

As far as the police, I am used to paying a hundred or two hundred baht into their lunch funds. I normally was guilty of speeding. The last time I was stopped on the expressway just south of Bangkok for speeding. In that case, I had a tourist friend who was afraid of the Bangkok traffic and I was driving slowly so he could relax. A crooked cop stopped me at the toll booth and extorted two THOUSAND baht from me.

Last week a drunk cop near our home up country ran into the back of a large parked truck. My wife ran to help him and the onlookers told her it was a cop. She walked away too. He died. Why was it that no one would help him? I moved here in 1991 and have never seen the Thai people hate the local cops as they do now.

And how is ANY of it government fault?

I'll tell you what I have seen in the last couple of years. The police are obscenely and openly much more corrupt. Plus being greedy to the point of being ridiculous. The military has gotten a MUCH larger budget and crime has increased substantially.

Appointments are being made because of debts owed to the yellow shirts. Is this a sign of a better government?

Plus being greedy to the point of being ridiculous? I've been accused of many things here, but greedy?

Seriously - I think you are mixing up your personal observations with opinions on national issues.

For example - increased police corruption - is it the case in your neighborhood? If so, then why do you project it on the whole country? And, as others said - the police are proudly pro-Thaksin, so how is it Democrats or the military fault?

What appointments were made as debts to yellow shirts? Is it from your personal experience, or are you talking about an aide to the Science Minister who worked for her for twenty years and happens to be yellow? Or Kasit who has a perfect resume for the job and is currently fighting PAD on the Preah Vihear issue?

And why make a fuss over those when we have plenty of real morons getting cabinet positions as a tribute to multi-party system, or factions inside one big party like it was in TRT days? The incompetent Commerce Minister has been in the headlines for the whole year and never for a good reason. Why make a fuss about Kasit who hasn't made a single mistake so far?

On a side note - Thaksin maybe the first PM who lasted the full term, but he had NINE Cabinet reshuffles in his first term alone. What does that say about the "stability" of a strong party?

It's time someone actually sorted this matter out and find out what is real and what is political posturing...

You could say that about the whole country.

There will be no knights in shining armor, though. There's no "they" who can just come and solve everything.

I accept there could be several things that justify the acquittal. You have your views on that and I and others take a different view. No problem with that.

I think it becomes a problem when one particular view is baseless, ie. not based on facts or commonly agreed ideas.

Like if I say - it's now midnight in Bangkok, I have my view, you might have a different view - no problem.

So, I'd like to see the reasoning behind this "deal" allegation, and any facts or reports to support it.

"Because they couldn't convict Newin" is not enough - they could have convicted 10-20 other people but they didn't. And seeing Newin creating all sorts of problems for Abhisit, wouldn't it be great to get rid of him and leave BJT toothless - the coalition relationships would be better off and the govt would be stronger.