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Another testament to "minor matter" and "Cambodian goodwill"

PHNOM PENH - CAMBODIAN Prime Minister Hun Sen ordered his troops on Monday to shoot any trespassers in a simmering border dispute with Thailand and angrily blasted the neighbouring nation's territorial claims.

...

'If they enter again, they will be shot,' MR Hun Sen told officials who applauded as he publicly ordered troops along the border to fire against civilian or military 'invader enemies' who illegally enter Cambodia.

'Troops, police and all armed forces must adhere to the order... for invaders, shields are not used but bullets are used,' Hun Sen said in the speech at the opening ceremony for Cambodia's new Ministry of Tourism building.

Hun Sen also lambasted Thailand's claim to the disputed 4.6 square kilometres of land around Preah Vihear, saying he may raise it at an Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) meeting next month.

'This is a unilateral claim with the ambition of occupying Cambodian territory... If the Thai prime minister put the (unilaterally-drawn) map in front of me, I would tear it,' Mr Hun Sen told the audience.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNew...ory_435525.html

The fact is they have to pussy foot around farang suicides, jetski scams, airport extortions.

I don't think Obama ever thinks about that.

Dems were well short in constituency seats, though, and that's unlikely to change.

Yes - a minor matter

Apparently Thais have more respect for their history than you.

For a team that has been negotiating the listing for several months Cambodian position was unacceptable, and don't tell me they were driven only by greed and opportunism to make a few bucks (for the villagers).

Imagine tourists reading two completely different versions of the temple history - Thai and Cambodian one, at complete odds with each other.

Yes, a minor matter indeed.

Minor matter?

Cambodians sliced and diced the site to suit their current political and economical needs and declared that Khmers who lived on Thai side of the current border were not the ones who build it and worshiped there and their heritage worth nothing, and the grand staircase was a later addition built by those usurpers.

Historically it's a blasphemy, and it shows total disregard for the site itself, and that was when Thais refused to participate in this sham of "preserving culture".

And they also don't have ministers with good will - there once was a little news item in Bangkok Post that was later removed. It showed a photo of Tej Bunnag having lunch with Cambodian FM, and in the story their FM was reported as bragging that Tej is a lightweight and is no match to his experience and that Cambodia will prevail.

To be honest, I don't know much about Hun Sen, but I certainly haven't read a single good thing about him, and I wouldn't give him a benefit of doubt in any matter, let alone in trying to get back at Thailand for centuries of injustice.

Good will? Seriously? His goons burned a Thai embassy not very long ago. I don't expect any good will from him. Do you?

This actually comes back to a policy of the Surayudh government, which PPP has continued.

Thailand had reversed this policy late in 2007, and neither Surayud nor Nittaya were closely involved.

The clue is right there, in the agreement from Surayudh's days:

“The State Party of Cambodia and the State Party of Thailand are in full agreement that the Sacred Site of the Temple of Preah Vihear has Outstanding Universal Value and must be inscribed on the World Heritage List as soon as possible.."

Later Cambodians, among other things, insisted that only temple itself, which is on their territory has "Outstanding Universal Value", and whatever happens to be on the Thai side of the current border is not worth preserving.

Thais protested and tried to thwart the bid (and would have probably succeeded).

Then Noppadon took charge, overrode previous Thai objections and agreed with Cambodians to list the TEMPLE of Preah Vihear only, no more "SITE of the the Temple of Preah Vihear".

There you go:

Yongyuth jailed for 2 months and banned 5 years

The Supreme Court on Monday found former House Speaker Yongyuth Tiyapairat guilty of concealing his Bt2-million assets and sentenced him to two months in jail as well as banned him from politics for five years.

The National Counter Corruption Commission had accused Yongyuth, also a former natural resources and enviroment minister for submitting false declaration of his assets after leaving his ministerial post.

The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Office however suspended his jail term. Yongyuth was also fined Bt4,000.

Yongyuth appeared at the court and seemed to show no feeling after hearing the verdict.

Last week the court on Friday ruled against former deputy interior minister Sombat Uthaisang for concealing his wife's assets of Bt106 million.

Although the court suspended the jail term for a year, Sombat was also banned from holding any political position for five years.

Sombat, who was also an adviser to the information and communications technology minister in a Thaksin Shinawatra government, did not declare nine bank accounts his wife was sharing with their three mature children.

Besides a Bt4,000 fine, the court also gave Sombat a two-month jail term for falsifying the assets-declaration statement given to the National Anti-Corruption Commission after he took office .

Although the court suspended the jail term for a year, Sombat was also banned from holding any political position for five years.

The court also earlier disqualified a Nakhon Sawan senator, Orapin Munsilp, over similar charges. It is scheduled to give a verdict on the assets-concealing case against former natural resources and environment minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat on Monday.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/09/28/pol...cs_30113234.php

Unfortunately your red herring has died and smells really bad!

These two topics can never be separated as each case was broadcast as fact by PAD.

First, talking about coup is YOUR red herring.

Second, if you want to divert the thread you need a stronger connection than "they were both broadcast on ASTV".

In terms of Preah Vihear there is no overlapping border other than in the minds of ultra-nationalistic Thais.

Any encyclopedia would tell you there ARE disputed territories with overlapping border claims.

Any reply to the previous two posts would be going way off topic and into familiar territory of why Thaksin had to be removed by a coup. Third anniversary of the same old discussion. Count me out.

This is a rubber sapling case, not "let's have another go and the coup" thread.

If you mean the unsavoury collection of generals, monopolistic businessmen, fat cat bureaucrats , feudal functionaries and reactionaries who have caused so much damage to this country then I would tend to agree.These groups need a thorough shake up and a reminder they are the servants of the Thai people, and are accountable to them.

Yes, that's what I meant.

And the last thing the US need here is a "thorough shake up" of the existing order by some populist party with no credentials or a proven track record but full of "servants of the people" rhetoric that no one believes.

They (the US) weren't worried about Thaksin until it became evident that it's him or Thailand they you know choice.

You ever thought to consider that support of Privy Council and the military could be viewed as a guarantor of Abhisit's weight and govt stability whereas some party with Thai style electoral mandate that wishes to overthrow the long existing orders is a bad news in every sense.

Aren't you glad that it's Abhisit and not Samak or Chalerm are representing Thailand?

He's not only the best this country has to show, he's the only choice.

That's SRJ's own photobucket account and, as he is banned now, don't be surprised his photos are not showing up. There are probably thousands of them and it's a bitch to clean it all up.

The old students uniform thread must be completely ruined, btw.

Yeah, thanks for the link.

Let's wait for a full review in a couple of weeks and whether this new turbo makes any difference.

Returning to stability was Abhisit's main message, and it certainly looks like Thaksin is a done business and won't be able to destabilize the country anymore.

And reds on their own are light years away from becoming a political force anyone would listen to.

The prospect of PTP forming the next government is not as frightening as it was after 2007 elections, so who cares? Another incompetent government, that's all.

Yeah, it's large, but wait until you read the OP and learn that Cambodians were asking deposits of $5,000, or 167,000 Baht.

Hitler healed Germans wounded pride after th WWI, Thaksin rebuild wounded pride after 1997 crisis.

Hitler united the nation around strong, dedicated leadership making huge personal efforts to look after welfare of all Germans, Thaksin was the first leader ever to care about common people, he gave them hope and love.

Hitler didn't tolerate any dissent in his quest for unity, Thaksin publicly ostracized anyone with opposing views, not afraid to take even on the UN.

Hitler rallied the country against a common enemy - Jews, who were blamed for everything under the sun. Thaksin chose drug dealers as a target, and there were treated as animals who had to be put down, all backed up by religious explanations and he even got an inspiring song to go with it.

Nazi symbols and paraphernalia are a legend, but TRT logos were were everywhere, too, and TRT successors are still using the same color scheme and their "new" logos are just redrawing of the same trademark.

Hitler marginalized traditional Vons, Thaksin's war against the elites is a red staple food nowadays.

There were plenty of differences, too, but what I'm talking about are signs of budding dictatorships, and they are pretty much the same all over the world and throughout history. Hitler didn't invent them, Thaksin didn't invent them, Stalin didn't invent them. Can we compare Thaksin to Stalin? If it makes you more comfortable.

[insert your favorite name here] - ... introduced a great, powerful, uniting ideology and declared himself a servant of that dream, just like everybody else in the country. Great sacrifices were made to fulfill this dream and eventually it led to ruin.

Speaking of shades of gray - there were plenty of other things Hitler has done apart from slaughtering millions of people. Can we compare those things to Thaksin's?

For the past couple of pages we haven't been talking about any comparisons in particular, arguing if that would be appropriate at all.

Golden Triangle mess was cleared thanks to great numbers of Royal projects to provide alternative means of livelihood, btw.

Thaksin's corruption has ceased to be the main issue when he started pitching Thais against each other and called for a revolution. At that point people didn't even think about his stolen money, they were taken aback by how much damage he was ready to inflict on their country, damage that cannot be calculated in baht terms.

I recently arranged a test drive of the ford everest and the Isuzu MU7. In my opinion the Ford was much better built, and has a smoother and quieter ride. The Ford handled better off road. The interior of the Everest is more comfortable while the MU7 has a better sound system. I tested the 2.5L diesel ford against the 3.0 L MU7. The MU7 had slightly more power but I am assuming that the 3.0 L ford will have better performance as well. I am waiting for my new everest to arrive!

.....Does anyone know if the Everest is a spin-off of Ford's (USA model) Explorer?

There was a Everest and a Explorer next to each other a few months back, very different....

Both were 2004 models, the Explorer was 1 million baht more than the Everest....

The Explorer was much bigger, 4.0 lt Petrol only + no extra row of seats, but had everything an American would expect in a SUV.

The Everest is basically a pickup with a SUV body.... Like the MU-7 is basically a pickup with a SUV body

I remember climbing inside the Explorer at a Bitec motorshow right after checking out Lexus is250. I looked at the cheap fittings, low grade, small seats, and I thought - this could compete with Everest. I was completely dumbstruck when the salesgirl told me it cost some 3 or 4 million.

Katabeachbum, re variable turbocharger - what's the mechanics of that? If I read the name correctly, the whole point is not about max power but rather flexible output in low-mid ranges, otherwise "variable" would be meaningless. And, of course, we had a discussion on max power vs mid-range performance when talking about Honda and Toyota petrol engines a while back. My point was that max power means jackshit for everyday driving, and so when you say new 2.5 Toyota diesel has the same max output as Nissan I'm not entirely satisfied and fill the gaps with my own imagination.

How does that thing work? I more or less know how dual VVTi works but not variable turbocharger.

Ok let's have a look again at the story line;

Cambodia-Thailand Border Coordination Office official Leem Tek of reportedly told the drivers that some Cambodian customs officials took the move because they were unhappy with Thai officials.

How the hel_l is anyone supposed to know that's a Cambodian office.

Well, one way is to know is to keep reading, because two lines below the article says:

"Asked why the Cambodian customs officials did not inform the truck drivers in advance, he refused to give any answer and retreated to the Cambodian side."

To add to your blinkered , tunnel vision approach to this thread , you now add the fact you are also unable to read and decipher the English language , it is clearly stated 'Imported vehicles' , being such a wealthy person you obviously also do not comprehend what a "huge" amount can be to people from a very poor country .

You are a 'HUGE' nitpicker/hair-splitter and not half as well informed as you appear to pride yourself in , you have become tedios in the extreme concerning a bunch of rabble rousers who in all honesty are not worthy of an iota of discussiun .

Sorry, but could you quote some numbers from that article? The biggest number I can remember is 1,000 baht fine. Is that what you mean by huge?

On a side note, you should probably see a shrink or a forum moderator, because the language you used in your post is a bit over the line and so you apparently have some issues. If you have a Turret syndrome it could probably be a valid excuse.

The only thing to negotiate is the outcome of the court trial.

Whichever way it goes - politically Thaksin is finished. He might get his money back and stop fighting, or lose his money and be unable to fight.

The first option - no one could guarantee that Thaksin would keep out of politics and no one could guarantee that if he reneges on his promise the opposition against him won't reach unmanageable proportions like it did last time with PAD.

Another way to look at it as his pardon petition negotiation. It can't be discussed legally, so there could be manipulation behind the scenes to enact the pardon in a peculiar way, like acquitting him in asset trial. But then again, it would rely on Thaksin's word that doesn't carry any value.

And the very first question about this alleged negotiations - what has Thaksin got to offer, and what can he threaten with. The answer to both is nothing, unless there's some final secret that he was dying to reveal all these years but was held back.

Perhaps the negotiation rumor is just an interpretation of a consolation call: "Sorry pal, you are screwed , but it's nothing personal, just business, would you like french fires with that?".

"has Thailand made any progress from the first day of the coup too today?"

Hmm, in that sense the coup is still in progress. The objective was to get rid of Thaksin and that is not entirely over. Thaksin has stopped being a serious issue for only a couple of months, after Songkran revolution fiasco.

It's only after April that the government actually started paying attention to business rather than politics. Samak/Somchai were too busy saving Thaksin's ass, and Surayud was writing a new constitution.

They've managed to do the whole thing in six months, btw. Current bunch is looking at six months to rewrite six paragraphs that nobody cares about.

These days even PTP doesn't have any clear pro-Thaksin agenda. They couldn't push it through when they led the government, it won't work anymore, just like red revolutions.

The current battles in parliament have no connection with Thaksin whatsoever, they are just covering their own asses. But yes, if Thaksin endorsement wins elections, they'll get it. That sucker pays for everything - elections, demonstrations, phone ins, there's a long line of beggars outside his office in Dubai, everybody needs something off him. What good ever came out of all these "investments"?

Now he has lost a will to fight, and I think that "hope for a miracle" comment was dead serious.

There's nothing about Cambodian trucks on that page and no signs of "huge" guarantees.

Do those Cambodian trucks even exist?

Bangkok Airways issue is in today's Nation, too, and there's a comment from the airline saying the matter is insignificant. They've been expecting it for a while, it's not out of the blue.